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~ Better The Sultan's Turban Than The Cardinal's Hat ~

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:D/Peace To All

 

"Better The Sultan's Turban Than The Cardinal's Hat"

 

Courtesy Of: GlobalResearch.ca

By Colin Buchanan

September 17, 2006

 

Apart from the sinister decision to launch an attack on Islam at this moment in history when the supreme question of war or peace hangs in the balance, there is a rather bizarre aspect to this whole affair viz. the curious decision to quote a Byzantine emperor's views on Islam.

 

Byzantium had experienced first hand the brutality of the Western Crusaders who, goaded on by Catholic Priests in 1203 had sacked the city in one of the greatest atrocities in history, magnified several-fold by the immense cultural loss in what was one of the great centers of world civilization.

 

This shocking act of delinquency way surpassed the sacking of Rome by the Goths or the relatively humane, subsequent saking of Byzantium by the Turks.

 

Here is how it was recorded by one Byzantine historian:

 

"No one was without a share in the grief. In the alleys, in the streets, in the temples, complaints, weeping, lamentations, grief, the groaning of men, the shrieks of women, wounds, rape, captivity, the separation of those most closely united. Nobles wandered about ignominiusly, those of venerable age in tears, the rich in poverty. Thus it was in the streets, on the corners, in the temple, in the dens, for no place remained unassailed or defended the suppliants. All places everywhere were filled full of all kinds of crime. Oh, Immortal God, how great the afflictions of the men, how great the distress!"

 

The Byzantine historian Nicetas Koniates wrote:

 

"Even the Muslims are human and well-disposed, reported to [compared to] those people who carrie the Cross of Christ on their shoulders."

 

Manuel II Paleologos (the emperor who Benedict quoted) had reason to fear the Muslims since Vyzantium was perpetually on the verge of falling to them, as indeed it did in 1453.

 

But even in the midst of that final siege one of the city's last great statesmen was heard to say "Better the Sultan's turban than the Cardinal's hat."

 

...Thank you, your holiness, for reminding us, unconsciously, of things you would rather keep forgotten, Western Christondom's Jihad against its religious foes culminating in the destruction of the beautiful city of Byzantium,...

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=BUC20060917&articleId=3252"]Full Article[/url]

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PropellerAds

:D

 

reading about those times brings tears to my eyes... i read about the above atrocities in Tareekh ibn Khuldoon...:D it was even worse in the city of jerusalem, where even jewish people were made to face inhuman torture and deaths.

 

May Allah give all those who suffered an eternal bode of bliss :D and give the crucaders what they deserve.

 

:D

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:D

 

reading about those times brings tears to my eyes... i read about the above atrocities in Tareekh ibn Khuldoon...:D it was even worse in the city of jerusalem, where even jewish people were made to face inhuman torture and deaths.

 

May Allah give all those who suffered an eternal bode of bliss :D and give the crucaders what they deserve.

 

:D

:D/Peace To All

 

Unfortunately, those cities were giant slaugterhouses :D

 

Ameen to your du'aa...

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The main person to blame for the sack of 1204 was the sinister and slimy Doge of Venice. The crusaders did actually intend to go to egypt, so they asked the Doge to give them the ships and supplies they would need. When they arrived, however, their party was far fewer than they expected, and the Doge refused to let them leave until they paid off the difference. The long standing rivalry between Venice and Constantinople made the Doge suggest that if the crusaders were to invade Byzantium, they would be able to pay the debt several times over. At first the crusaders were hesitant to attack their co-religionists, but the Doge justified the attack by saying that killing scismatics was just as important as killing infidels. The rest is history. The crusaders took everything of value that wasn't bolted down. The treasures of the Eastern Roman Empire were sent all across Europe. The greatest treasures were sent directly to Venice, where evidence of this rapine behavior can still be seen today. The four horses that stand so proudly over the entrance to St. Marks once stood over the entramce to the Hippodrome.

 

It took 250 years for The Doge to receive his just reward. During the final sack of Constantinople, The Turks smashed open his Tomb (He had been buried with the past Emperors as a final insult) and threw his bones to the dogs.

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The main person to blame for the sack of 1204 was the sinister and slimy Doge of Venice. The crusaders did actually intend to go to egypt, so they asked the Doge to give them the ships and supplies they would need. When they arrived, however, their party was far fewer than they expected, and the Doge refused to let them leave until they paid off the difference. The long standing rivalry between Venice and Constantinople made the Doge suggest that if the crusaders were to invade Byzantium, they would be able to pay the debt several times over. At first the crusaders were hesitant to attack their co-religionists, but the Doge justified the attack by saying that killing scismatics was just as important as killing infidels. The rest is history. The crusaders took everything of value that wasn't bolted down. The treasures of the Eastern Roman Empire were sent all across Europe. The greatest treasures were sent directly to Venice, where evidence of this rapine behavior can still be seen today. The four horses that stand so proudly over the entrance to St. Marks once stood over the entramce to the Hippodrome.

 

It took 250 years for The Doge to receive his just reward. During the final sack of Constantinople, The Turks smashed open his Tomb (He had been buried with the past Emperors as a final insult) and threw his bones to the dogs.

:D/Peace To All

 

Yeah, I read that also. I think the Doge was more Machiavellian than Machiavelli...

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Byzantium is sort of my thing. When I saw your title, I recognized the quote immediately. I just had to say something.
:D/Peace To All

 

I'm glad you did. You are always more than welcome posting here :D

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[quote name='Russ of Vespuccia' date='Sep 25 2006, 12:29 AM' post='352384'

 

It took 250 years for The Doge to receive his just reward. During the final sack of Constantinople, The Turks smashed open his Tomb (He had been buried with the past Emperors as a final insult) and threw his bones to the dogs.

 

Cool, I didn't know that particular tidbit. Must say I love talking to people who know there history. "A man without a sense of history is like a man without eyes and ears."

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Thanks, Ozy. :D

 

The little tidbits make it all worthwhile. Here's another one:

 

When the Ottomans finally advanced into the city, many faithful christians ran to the grandiose church of Hagia Sophia (Holy Wisdom), because it had been prophesized that at the last minute an angel with a flaming sword would emerge from the dome and drive the turks back beyond tha Zargos Mts. When the entourage of Mehmet the second (or the conquerer, whichever you prefer) finally arrived at the Hagia Sophia, he took pity on the huddled citizens and granted them all amnesty. He was also greeted by the site of one of his own soldiers smashing apart the marble of the church. When he asked the soldier why on earth he would be doing this, the soldier replied, "for the faith." Mehmet promptly bludgeoned the soldier to death with his mace.

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:D

 

:D for the article bro thezman...as always you have a knack for putting things in perspective... :D

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:D

 

:D for the article bro thezman...as always you have a knack for putting things in perspective... :D

:D/Peace To All

 

Wa Iyyakum brother :D

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The main person to blame for the sack of 1204 was the sinister and slimy Doge of Venice. The crusaders did actually intend to go to egypt, so they asked the Doge to give them the ships and supplies they would need. When they arrived, however, their party was far fewer than they expected, and the Doge refused to let them leave until they paid off the difference. The long standing rivalry between Venice and Constantinople made the Doge suggest that if the crusaders were to invade Byzantium, they would be able to pay the debt several times over. At first the crusaders were hesitant to attack their co-religionists, but the Doge justified the attack by saying that killing scismatics was just as important as killing infidels. The rest is history. The crusaders took everything of value that wasn't bolted down. The treasures of the Eastern Roman Empire were sent all across Europe. The greatest treasures were sent directly to Venice, where evidence of this rapine behavior can still be seen today. The four horses that stand so proudly over the entrance to St. Marks once stood over the entramce to the Hippodrome.

 

It took 250 years for The Doge to receive his just reward. During the final sack of Constantinople, The Turks smashed open his Tomb (He had been buried with the past Emperors as a final insult) and threw his bones to the dogs.

Russ is right, the Doge was to blame, and all those involved were instantly excommunicated, only the most extreme Greeks these days would blame Catholics for 1204.

 

Keep in mind however, that the 'better the sultan's turban than the cardinal's hat' saying is adopted by Orientalists for the wrong purposes, it is not supposed to show the great tolerance of the Ottomans, rather the hopelessness of the situation the Byzantines found themselves in, and for the record.

 

Also Russ, the story of Mehmet granting pardon to the captives in Agia Sophia is not exactly accurate, it's kind of a legend associated with the story of the Ottoman soldier trying to steal the marble. Sphrantzes never talks about it, not does any other primary source I have read.

 

Let us not decieve ourselves, the Ottomans were brutal and sadistic, WORSE than the crusaders in many ways, the Crusaders were drunken louts, they stripped the city of it's material glory for good, they ripped the heart out the empire. The Ottomans were actually genuinely cruel, genuinely evil people, some of the reports of the raping of nuns, impaling of little children, the rape of the Grand Duke's nephew by Mehmet and the subsequent execution of his family in front of him. Really sick stuff.

 

It's up there with Thermopylae though for title of 'Best Last stand ever', as Runciman wrote at the end of his 'Fall of Constantinople':

 

"They remembered that dreadful Tuesday, a day that all true Greeks still know to be of ill omen; but their spirits tingled and their courage rose as they told of the last Christian Emperor standing in the breach, abandoned by his western allies, holding the infidel at bay till their numbers overpowered him and he died, with the Empire as his winding sheet."

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the rape of the Grand Duke's nephew by Mehmet and the subsequent execution of his family in front of him. Really sick stuff.

 

Are you referring to the son of Lukas Notaras? I thought Notaras refused to give his son to Mehmet (a well known bisexual), and that was why they were killed.

 

I think the source for both this story and the one about Mehmet in the Cathedral was Doukas, so they are either both true or both false. Either way, Mehmet was still exceptionally civilized in his conduct for his time. He Stationed men outside the Holy Apostles church to save it from being sacked, and granted many of his captives amnesty. That said, the majority of the population was sold into slavery, The churches were stripped bare and turned into Masjids ( :D ), And the nuns and children were distributed amongst the men to be raped. The truth, however, is that the sack of 1204 was at least 10 times more horrific and devastating.

 

Interesting tidbit: Lukas Notaras was actually the one who coined the phrase, "Better a Sultan's turban than a Cardinal's hat."

Edited by Russ of Vespuccia

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