Jump to content
Islamic Forum
shez

Alcohol And Pork - Just An Observation.

Recommended Posts

When i went pakistan recently i noticed that they sell alcohol in hotels.

 

:D

 

Not only in hotels. In some towns, you'll find cans of alcohol being sold in shops, disguised as soft drinks.

 

Pakistan isn't an Islamic country, they have the same problems we have in the west.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PropellerAds

salam , i have lived all my life here in Pakistan and i have never seen those alcohol cans disguised as soft drinks which you are talking about which city you are talking about , Islamabad?, Lahore? , Karachi? , what you are talking about is crime and crime is every where and no country is with out crime now if somebody is doing crime then does that mean whole nation or country is of criminals ? . Brother , good and bad people are every where so don't just stereo type a whole country or a nation just because one bad incident , nobody sell alcohol in hotels like a shop, there is a excise inspector in every 4 or 5 star hotels and if any one wants alcohol drink then he or she has to submit there passport which can prove that he is not from Pakistan and not Muslim to the inspector and only then a certain amount of alcohol is issued to him or her .

Once again i will say , don't stereo type ,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote: I do not want any religion, Islam included, forcing me to behave according to their religious values. If the Muslims do not want to consume alcohol or eat pork then that is perfectly fine, but why deny it to those that have no religious obligation to deny it? How does my having bacon for breakfast interfere with your practicing of your religion?

 

hmmmmm yea good point I mean If I think child abuse is wrong, why should it stop my life if some child some where in the country was getting abused...I mean its not like their my child right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:D

 

If the Muslims do not want to consume alcohol or eat pork then that is perfectly fine, but why deny it to those that have no religious obligation to deny it? How does my having bacon for breakfast interfere with your practicing of your religion?

 

 

How does it interfere with the practice of our religion? Because it is a SIN to SERVE it or HANDLE it. Why should we sin just because American's like slowing their brain function?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Because it is a SIN to SERVE it or HANDLE it. Why should we sin just because American's like slowing their brain function?

 

Have non-Muslims do it. Simple.

 

hmmmmm yea good point I mean If I think child abuse is wrong, why should it stop my life if some child some where in the country was getting abused...I mean its not like their my child right?

 

Horrible analogy. You compare my having bacon for breakfast with child abuse? Or even my going out to have a beer with friends to child abuse?

 

When I eat ham I hurt noone. When I drink a beer I hurt noone. When someone commits child abuse they are hurting someone.

 

See the difference?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Have non-Muslims do it. Simple.

Horrible analogy. You compare my having bacon for breakfast with child abuse? Or even my going out to have a beer with friends to child abuse?

 

When I eat ham I hurt noone. When I drink a beer I hurt noone. When someone commits child abuse they are hurting someone.

 

See the difference?

 

Yes, but by having non-muslims do it is no different than serving it yourself because you are knowingly allowing something which is forbidden. Again, how could a person expect somebody else to go against what they truly beleive just to provide a luxury for foreigners? Some people have greater meaning in their life and don't want to go against their beleifs just so people can enjoy something as petty as a beer...

 

Obviously your opinion isn't going to change because you already have your mind made up and you aren't going to try to see it from our perspective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:D

 

if someone drinks alchohol and then gets behind the wheel and kills or hurts someone Then I would say that is destroying human life.

 

Like I said before, if Americans want to drink in Muslims countries, then they should let people do cocain and other drugs in their country, free of persicution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:D

 

I don't think any of you guys knows much about Pakistan but i am really surprised the way your talking about it , tell me about one country where you don't find any un Islamic thing and i will rest my case . Yeah i am from Pakistan.
I live with pakistanis and have many friends from there. Plus some relatives of mine are pakistani. I've never been there so I cannot comment however living with these people :D they talk non stop about stuff so I picked up a lot of things which i've related here on IF.

 

Like I said before, if Americans want to drink in Muslims countries, then they should let people do cocain and other drugs in their country, free of persicution.
I'm sorry bro but I dont see the logic here. If non muslims drink it is because they dont have religious restrictions however muslims are not permitted to do drugs and all that anyhoo so.. err.. you get my logic?? This sentence doesnt make sense.

 

Just a side question: So what if theres alcohol in pakistan? Why is everyone arguing over it? Pakistan is not really an Islamic country and even if it were, as some of the knowledgeble members have pointed out under shariah law, haram things are permitted for non muslims provided no muslims are involved in the process. The way I see it, some people in pakistan think the country is "westernized" and/or "anti-west" and by seeing bottles of liquor this is only fueling the fire.. correct me if i'm wrong.

 

This is out of topic I know but I still dont understand why the american flag was burnt in pakistan when the prophet mohammed :D pictures were floating about.. it was some paper in the netherlands and usa had nothing to do with it :D ..

 

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
if someone drinks alchohol and then gets behind the wheel and kills or hurts someone Then I would say that is destroying human life

 

That is why combining the two is illegal.

 

 

Yes, but by having non-muslims do it is no different than serving it yourself because you are knowingly allowing something which is forbidden.

 

Like I said earlier, let the non-Muslims deal with it then. Then no Muslims have to handle it.

 

Obviously your opinion isn't going to change because you already have your mind made up and you aren't going to try to see it from our perspective.

 

I can see it from your perspective, I simply disagree with it. I am a firm believer in allowing people freedom, not taking it away from them. If they abuse that freedom (i.e. drinking and driving) then prosecute them, otherwise allow them the freedom to make their own choices. Do not impose your religion on me and I will not impose my religion on you. Simple.

 

This is out of topic I know but I still dont understand why the american flag was burnt in pakistan when the prophet mohammed pictures were floating about.. it was some paper in the netherlands and usa had nothing to do with it

 

Because there are many that want to blame the United States or Jews for everything wrong in the world. People on this forum were even trying to blame the tsunami on the United States. It was incredible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure I can respond in this thread without upsetting people, but the forum encourages dialogue and so I would like to put my point accross and apologise in advance if it is not "PC" enough.

 

First I should just make sure I understand the original topic, that Muslim countries should not accomodate western culture, I can't see a way of getting round that basic tenet.

 

"the way i see it, they have come to an Islamic country for vacation, i am sure they will NOT die if they dont drink alcohol for few weeks. as we obey their rules in their countries so they should do the same in ours"

 

I think this quote is incredibly insulting. I live in the UK, muslims are given so much freedom in my country to live as they wish and to keep their muslim identity. Sure, you could stop selling alcohol to westerners in Pakistan or wherever, but what if we made it illegal to sell Halal products here? Say, on account of it being inhumane? You wouldn't like it then would you?

 

Also someone mentioned alcohol shouldn't be sold as it might tempt muslims to drink, isn't the point of religion resisting temptation?

 

And why, if alcohol is forbidden, is Marijuana use so prevalent amongst muslims in the UK (I'm not saying all muslims, mainly young males). Whilst I was at uni in Nottingham, 4 out 6 of the dealers I knew didn't drink because they were muslim, but smoked weed like there was no tomorrow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Like I said earlier, let the non-Muslims deal with it then. Then no Muslims have to handle it.

 

 

What you are failing to realise is that if the hotel owner is Muslim and he has non-muslims provide the alcohol for westerners then he is STILL involved in the process of providing it, even if he doesn't touch it!

 

And how are halaal products inhumane? Elsewhere in the world they pretty much set up a killing assembly line and kill animals in front of each other and in cruel ways such as electrocution or with a device that penetrates the scull and basically scrambles their brain around... Totally against the Islamic view of how animals should be killed.

 

 

And I see what you mean about saying if Americans want to drink alcohol then cocain should be allowed in america. He wasn't saying muslims can use cocaine, he was making a comparison. American's are upset because muslims won't provide them alcohol when it is ILLEGAL for them to do so AND against their religion. That is exactly the same as asking them to provide people with cocaine because it is illegal in America. Again, why should we break the law to provide you with an illegal good? If I went into an american hotel I wouldn't complain because they won't bring me a fat sack of some chronic!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And why, if alcohol is forbidden, is Marijuana use so prevalent amongst muslims in the UK (I'm not saying all muslims, mainly young males). Whilst I was at uni in Nottingham, 4 out 6 of the dealers I knew didn't drink because they were muslim, but smoked weed like there was no tomorrow.

So what if some silly muslims choose to go against the laws of Islam?

 

Just because someone doesnt obey the rule doesnt mean the rule doesnt exist.

 

I mean, there is a universal rule, that Rape is illegal... but it still happens, alot.

 

Does that make it ok?

 

Me thinks not.

 

As for some of the other things you've said, i agree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
is Marijuana use so prevalent amongst muslims in the UK (I'm not saying all muslims, mainly young males). Whilst I was at uni in Nottingham, 4 out 6 of the dealers I knew didn't drink because they were muslim, but smoked weed like there was no tomorrow.

Yeah It's weird...like the Sikhs drink so much alcohol that would put Irish to shame but never smoke a cigarette.

Edited by llogical

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If alcohol is illegal in some predominantly muslim countries, and/or against the religion, yet it is still being sold, then it can only be down to money. Like alcohol, marijuana & cocaine, money can dull the senses.

 

My point in my earlier post was that the east/west relationship and the muslim/christian relationship should, like any relationship, be give and take - not take and take and complain and cry foul. It angers me that here in the UK we put our necks out to accomodate others, so why shouldn't others do the same. Eg, surely alcohol could be sold on a not for profit basis without muslims actually handling it? And the fact that it's available should strengthen your own resolve not to touch it, and show your Lord that you have resisted the temptation.

 

The way I see it, if Jesus turned water into wine he can't have been all that bothered about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What you are failing to realise is that if the hotel owner is Muslim and he has non-muslims provide the alcohol for westerners then he is STILL involved in the process of providing it, even if he doesn't touch it!

 

What you are failing to realize is that I am not saying that hotels should have to sell it, but should be able to sell it if they want. If no Muslims want to handle it then only businesses owned and manned by non-Muslims will do it. Let the non-Muslims make all the money from it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If alcohol is illegal in some predominantly muslim countries, and/or against the religion, yet it is still being sold, then it can only be down to money. Like alcohol, marijuana & cocaine, money can dull the senses.

 

My point in my earlier post was that the east/west relationship and the muslim/christian relationship should, like any relationship, be give and take - not take and take and complain and cry foul. It angers me that here in the UK we put our necks out to accomodate others, so why shouldn't others do the same. Eg, surely alcohol could be sold on a not for profit basis without muslims actually handling it? And the fact that it's available should strengthen your own resolve not to touch it, and show your Lord that you have resisted the temptation.

 

The way I see it, if Jesus turned water into wine he can't have been all that bothered about it.

 

:D

 

By that same logic, your country should provide cocaine and other narcotics on a "not for profit bases" to foreigners who want it, and this should also be available to the public as a way to test their will power.

 

And by the way, Brittan has taken MUCH MUCH more from Muslims lands (India, Egypt, etc) then it can ever hope to give back. (see colonialism)

So me thinks you should stop whining, and be grateful for all things Muslims have given your country (more accurately, all the things you took from Muslim lands) and stop complaining when they ask for a little back. And besides I don’t see your government rushing out and making it legal for Muslim men to marry 4 wives in order to “accommodate†the Muslim population.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
By that same logic, your country should provide cocaine and other narcotics on a "not for profit bases" to foreigners who want it, and this should also be available to the public as a way to test their will power.

There is a difference ...While alcohol is legal is lots of countries, cocaine is not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peace

 

Ok people, we must all learn that we each have different laws and we should respect eachother's laws.

 

Sidenote: Alcohol is legal under an Islamic State ONLY for non-muslims. Muslims CANT have any part in making it, distributing it or serving it. It is a SPECIAL PRIVILEGE that Non-Muslims have in Islam.

 

Peace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
. Sure, you could stop selling alcohol to westerners in Pakistan or wherever, but what if we made it illegal to sell Halal products here?

 

 

What kind of ludicrous logic is this?

 

 

Halaal meat is an important part of a Muslim diet. With your hypothetical question, you just implied alcohol is 'must' for all christians. :D

 

In response to that i shall also put forth an equally silly question:

 

Does the Bible tell you not to touch, serve or eat Halaal meat?

 

No ?

 

Didn't think so.

 

You wouldn't like it then would you?

 

what? is this preschool? :D

 

Because the QURAN (the WORD of Allah ) forbids the selling , serving and consuming of Alcohol. Period

 

 

the ONLY reason Muslims will NOT stand for alcohol being distrubuted in hotels or whatever to whomever (be it Non muslim guests or misguided muslims) is because (I'm going to reiterate again)

 

 

The Quran Forbids it.

 

End of.

 

 

 

sidenote: please do some research on the halal method animal sacrifce and what it includes, before you utter such nonsense about it being 'inhumane'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pakistan is Islamic country but we also have Christians , Hindu and Sikh and its only for them Alchol is allowed even that on spacial permission , they have to apply and get permission form certain govt department so its not that easy for them even .

 

Non-muslims get permits from the govt and get alchol on controlled rates, however some then sell it secetly on high prices, as a part of their side business. I agree, getting alchol in Pakistan is not that easy as perceived generally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, have you all heard?

 

According to an Dr Zakir Naik, Pigs swap partners, so people who eat pigs become wife swappers.

 

Man, pure logic! how come i didn't think of that one! :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salaams

 

So, have you all heard?

 

According to an Dr Zakir Naik, Pigs swap partners, so people who eat pigs become wife swappers.

 

Man, pure logic! how come i didn't think of that one! :D

Don't be so hard on yourself, Mr. Naik is like a scholar so it's no wonder his

logic surpasses average ,layman's . :D

Peace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So, have you all heard?

 

According to an Dr Zakir Naik, Pigs swap partners, so people who eat pigs become wife swappers.

 

This is the case with some other animals also. For us, being muslims, it is a religious binding as per our shariah, which is enough for us as a logic/authority. For non-muslims, they may carry out the exercise of examining its viability medically or otherwise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:D

 

Livius, you must understand that it's unlawful for a Muslim to have any part in alcohol whatsoever. That's why the OP thought it was weird that they made it allowed in Pakistan. Yes, under the ideal Islamic State, alcohol would be lawful for the non-Muslims, but they'd have to make it and distribute it themselves, with Muslims having absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

I understand what you're trying to say, what if a certain country made something unlawful for us, but your examples - hijab and halal food - aren't accurate. We NEED halal food, everything else is unlawful to us unless there is an absense of halal food. Plus, halal food is such a huge category...anything from the sea, any animal that's slaughtered the Islamic way, any fruits, vegetables, etc. so it would be impossible to eliminate halal food from a country.

 

The hijab is also an OBLIGATORY part of our religion, unlike alcohol which is a way to kill time and brain cells.

 

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The hijab is also an OBLIGATORY part of our religion, unlike alcohol

 

For many Christians alcohol (wine) is obligatory for the sacrament. You are correct, though, in that it is not obligatory for anything else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×