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llogical

God's Existence

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peace

i am no scholor but the length of this thread itself shows that llogical is searching for something . all the replies seemed to have failed to convince him. i have a suggestion. it may appear foolish to some or too simple to others. but here it is.

 

even if you don't believe in the existance of God- just repeat three words.

 

Rabbi Zidni Ilma

 

i won't tell you what is the meaning of the three arabic words. ( maybe you already know the meaning) just try repeating them even if it appears to be Illogical :D . it may be a torture for somebody so logical to do an act that appears to be against his very nature. but there is no harm in trying. what do you lose?

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Salaams

I'm sure you've gone over the works of hume and come to the realization that we can't really know anything? Aside from our own vague existence anyway.

Yeah Hume is going to hell :D ..I'm trying to get on a differnet Bus here..although to my dismay, the other Bus is no where to be found...O Well, atleast we have each other to Keep company :D ( and Hume too ....and 3/4 of the world to come to think of it :D ).

 

But on a serious note..I find it Absurd for billions of people, not being able to see the Truth.

That's the basis of my argument in this thread..IF God wants people to see the truth...then it's logically IMPOSSIBLE for people not to see the truth

Ok so I maybe incompetent with an IQ of about 130 (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.nearlygood(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]rolleyes2642.gif[/url] ..But what about 3/4 of the world? They can't all be incompetent.

If Truth hasn't been purposely concealed...If the signs are effective at all....We would all see it or atleast those who did would be able to explain it.

It's as simple as that..God wants something to happe, It WILL happen...PERIOD.

SO Why can't even the highest Intellects comes to an agreement on this?

 

I will not buy the limited brain defesne here....bcaz the issue Here is not Origins of God but

a logical contradiction in the portrayed schema of God. So people who know...must be able to explain, Otherwise they themselves don't know for sure.

Besides, Our Limited brains are sophisticated enough to develope speech, calculate alogrithyms,

and find ways to transfer knowledge. If we have no words to describe something..We create new words, and attach meaning. From Phonetic languages to Computer languages, calculus morse code,Body/sign languages, Brail , these all are ways to communicate thoughts that are developed by our LIMITED brains..God doesn't teach grammar :D. So Why Can't there be a way then to communicate Divine logic with accuracy?

Again, It all boils down to God must be deceiving us on purpose...or ATLEAST wants some of Us to End up in HELL ( after all why would he create it to begin with :D )

If He knew that giving us freewill, some people Will End up in hell, He could have improved the human design or our nature etc. Again, Bottom line, He God didn't Want People to Go to HELL..No One would Go To Hell..PERIOD ( Says the postulate of omnipotence...and what I tried to show in the function)

The typical Answer is "Read more Quran or other religious books,Pray more...Bla Bla Bla.. That's conditioning ..conditioning I tell ya.

Plus the contradiction(s) remain... Unless we overlook them blinded by our own faith. It's a well known phenomena in psychology, Give a Jellybean to some one suferring from a headache, tell him that it's Tylenol and watch him say that the headache is Gone.

( Works Great on kids :D ..Try it on some one Today :D )

A Good Example,The Mormons ( The church Of Jesus Christ Latter-Day Saints)

Despite the Fact that DNA evidence form (American Indians) PROVES that their scripture ( Book of Mormons) is incorrect, ( About calling Them Isrealites) The church maintains that the book is right. So Satan+incapacity of our brain can validate almost anything, NOw How Can People Separate Truth from falsehood ?

For that purpose, ALL contradictions must be eliminated Logically ( there is no other way)

I mean I can look at the 1001 divine signs form God in any scripture, but the existance of one minor glitch can cause an entire system to crash.

 

Sorry to go off ...rainy days make me unholy (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.nearlygood(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]badmood.gif[/url]

 

Although some might claim that It's God's way of Baptizing the world :D

 

 

Peace

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Hey peeps

That's the basis of my argument in this thread..IF God wants people to see the truth...then it's logically IMPOSSIBLE for people not to see the truth

I think your missing out a variable, God wants you to find the truth with the underlying condition of choice. You could do all your son's homework cos u want him to get good grades or you could leave them to try even at the risk of him failing.So your son could study hard to get good grades or cud watch tv all day n fail...all while you watch. If your child fails its not because you wanted him to fail (you COULD HAVE done the homework for him) but because you gave him the choice. CHOICE is the key.

If Truth hasn't been purposely concealed...If the signs are effective at all....We would all see it or atleast those who did would be able to explain it.

It's as simple as that.

Again, if you accept we've been given choice then this quote doesn't stand. People have the choice of following whatever they want. But the truth certainly has not been concealed. I just want to touch on the spiritual thing again (if I may, I kno im a nOOb! :D ). Our mechanical logic and intellect alone cannot always understand the Divine presense,we need our emotive, spiritual and other human qualities to support it. Humans are so diverse and different things get us thinking and beleiving.

So Why Can't there be a way then to communicate Divine logic with accuracy?

Again, It all boils down to God must be deceiving us on purpose...or ATLEAST wants some of Us to End up in HELL ( after all why would he create it to begin with )

If He knew that giving us freewill, some people Will End up in hell, He could have improved the human design or our nature etc. Again, Bottom line, He God didn't Want People to Go to HELL..No One would Go To Hell..PERIOD

Yes God could have "improved" the human design but He has given us enough in our makeup to know the truth. The ones who have used our intellect and human qualities well will have found the truth, those who don't will not find truth. You're caught up on this idea that God wants to send people to Hell-God wants you to earn you're place in Paradise or earn your seat in the Fire. Up to you.Freewill is essential to see who deserves the rewards and who deservs punishment. Yes God did know that some will end up in Hell but again this is the choice of the people. I think spirituality is key. Maybe a straight mathemtical type equation or proof or law would "communicate Divine logic with accuracy" but this is misunderstanding what you're tryin to prove. God in the Qur'an gives 'ayahs' or signs.People must reflect on these signs and use their intellect to understand. As far as contradictions go i don't know of any in the Qur'an.If there are any it cant be from God.

 

These questions you are posing are not new, dont think that the advances in science have enlightened man to question Divine presense - these questions are almost as old as beleif itself.

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Salaams

 

I think your missing out a variable, God wants you to find the truth with the underlying condition of choice. You could do all your son's homework cos u want him to get good grades or you could leave them to try even at the risk of him failing.. CHOICE is the key.

Ah the good ole freewill...I did incorporate that into the function :D ( u can check )

But the freewill has 0 relevance..Unless you ar esaying that my freewill can get into God's plan? In other words Ar eyou saying that God WANTS us to choose something ( Heaven) but

With My freewill I can go against his plan and choose Hell?

Maybe not bcaz that would void the omnipotence.

So maybe you mean that God just wants u sto choose and make up our own mind?

That would work except, that goes against his mercy/benevolence bcaz why give some one an option to hurt themselves at all?

It's like me giving baby a rock and burning coal and asking him to choose (ok so I stole this of Moses..Sue me :D )

Now about the child father example...It's not a good comparison.

A father can't say "KUM" and somehow produce knowledge into the child's head ( I hope u get the metaphor :D ) So if the father was omnipotent,and if he WANTED he could just transfer the knowledge into the kids shead without having him to read 10 times.

Again, if you accept we've been given choice then this quote doesn't stand. People have the choice of following whatever they want. But the truth certainly has not been concealed. I just want to touch on the spiritual thing again (if I may, I kno im a nOOb! :D ). Our mechanical logic and intellect alone cannot always understand the Divine presense,we need our emotive, spiritual and other human qualities to support it.

AGain..the choice is not obvious otherwise 3/4 of the world wouldn't pick the wrong one.

AGian...the rationale behind making each choice lacks evidence in support.

Not Again...the spiritual side..Actualy.Again..the spiritual side can decieve us ( just think of how many people claimed to make contact with the devine)

Yes God could have "improved" the human design but He has given us enough in our makeup to know the truth.

Enough make ..NOT..says the 3/4 of the world...maybe a used lipstick... :D

Maybe a straight mathemtical type equation or proof or law would "communicate Divine logic with accuracy" but this is misunderstanding what you're tryin to prove.

So in other words..U are saying that God can't be proven logically?

I disagree bcaz there is NO other way.

Like I said b4, I can't rely on spirituality alone ( not even sure how to do that )

because spirituality says lots of stufff...maybe I should meditate 25 hours a day to find God.

Maybe I should light up 1000 candles or dance around fire to find him..

Maybe there is no God but one etrenal soul Aatma.

See the problem?

Peace

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Salaams

OK.

I see most people are just trying to give reaosns for God's existance.

Instead, It would help it some one can actually refute the claim I make in the

(stupid) function thing. Remember the Function on 2nd page?

( I wonder If I should get it published :D )

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Salaams,

 

Ok the thing with this function is you have tried to simplify this issue into an input output function. The first assuption you made was

"If God wishes to be acknowledged(X) it will happen (Y) (since God is Omnipotent.....).

God wants us to earn either Paradise or Hell. How does this affect his omnipotence?

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Salaams

OK.

I see most people are just trying to give reaosns for God's existance.

Instead, It would help it some one can actually refute the claim I make in the

(stupid) function thing. Remember the Function on 2nd page?

( I wonder If I should get it published :D )

that problem in the function of yours is common sense and came off as a "well duh" when I first read it. now if only more people were sensible :D

Edited by 3dshocker

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salaams

that problem in the function of yours is common sense and came off as a "well duh" when I first read it. now if only more people were sensible

With all due fairness I may not be that simple bcaz we are exploring No Man's Land/ a taboo in the Religious world. Putting the Big Guy on the Hot seat always make theists uneasy...and that's understandable. Besides...U have a Philosophical mind that's like the turbo-charged version.

Salaams,

Ok the thing with this function is you have tried to simplify this issue into an input output function. The first assuption you made was

"If God wishes to be acknowledged(X) it will happen (Y) (since God is Omnipotent.....).

God wants us to earn either Paradise or Hell. How does this affect his omnipotence?

DOn't Let the length of the Post Scare you ..read on

Let me break it downn further... :D

So the first stop is acknowledgement, the chice to obey or disobey (heaven/hell) is separate and comes later.

The function claims that Since God is omnipotent...Anything he wants can be done..ANYTHING, ANYTHINHG regardless of circumstances..Regardless of circumstances.....So circumstances =0 relevance becaz God got it like that....

ANything.

Sort of like unlimited range for any domain and unlimited domains.

So far agreed or not?

If not let me know what it is?

If so then plug in anything that God wants ....and by definition, It must come true.

So God wants acknowledgment..he gets it.

SO God wants every one to go to heaven...They all do.

God want Evil to exist...It does.

NO Ifs Buts Ands Ors ..Nothing period.

This is what needs to be clear...no extrenal forces can influence his Will.

So you say that he wants us to choose...and God's will subdivides into human will.

FINE

But ..We do not have an absolute freewill, Only God Does, so our freewill is insignificant in changing God's Plan. Plus he is omnipotenet and we are not.

So

Now let's disect "God wanting us to choose" further

Him wanting us to choose doesn't violate omnipotence...bcaz both options are covered.

HOWEVER

It violates benevolence...because most of the world is making the wrong choice.

And that is exactly what God must have wanted..Otherwsie it couldn't have been possible.

No it' s not people's fault because we are not capable of going against his plan remember...thus this MUST be the Plan.

Bottom line ..again..IF God wanted to Guide people...We ALL be guided..not 99.9..but 100% of us would be guided. free will or no freewill, ALL OF US....No one gets left out.

So it proves that God does WANT some people to go to hell.

That is not benevolence....bcaz someone who wants EVERYONE to go to heaven is more benevolent then God.

That is not "loving us more then a mother loves her child" (as mentioned in Quran) because, No mother would want her child to burn in hell.

 

One can't leave things like this unresolved...reading more quran is not the solution.

Letting human incompetence fill in the gaps can work for Any religion...Not a solution.

If there is a way out, it must be explicable..

letting things hang is blind faith

Forget the world, let me speak for myself.

I am not incompetent..and I am all ears...ready to follow the Beacon of light..

Where is the Beacon?..Show me the Beacon....I want Beacon.

Anyone with The Beacon?

BEACON..........BEACON........

.....BEECCCOONNNNNNN

(sorry ...restricted use of emoticons forced a dramatic exit :D )

 

Peace

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Salaams

So the first stop is acknowledgement, the chice to obey or disobey (heaven/hell) is separate and comes later.

But giving Him acknowledgement is also a choice...we have been given the choice. Your trying to say that maybe He doesn't want to be acknowledged so that's why people do not-which would means it's not the fault of the people if they deny God. But giving the people the choice to acknowledge Him does not affect His omnipotence at all and does not mean God doesn't want to be acknowledged.

The function claims that Since God is omnipotent...Anything he wants can be done..ANYTHING, ANYTHINHG regardless of circumstances..

True God can do anything. The function is saying that if He wants to be acknowledged, He will regardless,but your definition of what God wants is not very thorough. God sets His own conditions. All we need to worry about is following His command.

HOWEVER

It violates benevolence...because most of the world is making the wrong choice.

And that is exactly what God must have wanted..Otherwsie it couldn't have been possible.

The choice "most of the world" makes does not affect God's benevolence, nor does it determine "what God must have wanted". God is the most benevolant-he sustains his creation and showers many blessings on every creature. God has given man choice and guidance- it's up to us how to use them.

That is not benevolence....bcaz someone who wants EVERYONE to go to heaven is more benevolent then God.

That is not "loving us more then a mother loves her child" (as mentioned in Quran) because, No mother would want her child to burn in hell.

Even if the child deserves to burn in Hell the mother still woudn't want it. But God is just. We will get what we deserve and this does not mean God is not benevolent.

No it' s not people's fault because we are not capable of going against his plan remember...thus this MUST be the Plan.

No, we cannot escape God's plan, but every individual has been given the tools to succeed. Man has a personal relationship with his Rubb and should not concern himself with God's plan, he should concern himself with his own destiny.

Say: "Shall I seek a lord other than Allah, while He is the Lord of all things? No person earns any (sin) except against himself (only), and no bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another. Then unto your Lord is your return, so He will tell you that wherein you have been differing."

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Salaams

 

Salaams

 

But giving Him acknowledgement is also a choice...we have been given the choice.

Acknolwleging that choice is also a choice..... and Acknowledging the acknowlegments is also a choice...Everything we think and do is a choice. I don't think you actually read what i wrore becaz I already explained how our choice has 0 impact on God's decision.

 

True God can do anything. The function is saying that if He wants to be acknowledged, He will regardless,but your definition of what God wants is not very thorough. God sets His own conditions. All we need to worry about is following His command.

In other words don't use your head?

Let me try a diffrenet angle...For us to do what he wants, we need to know what he wants first.The fact that we can go against what he wants voids omnipotence.

Even if the child deserves to burn in Hell the mother still woudn't want it. But God is just. We will get what we deserve and this does not mean God is not benevolent.

Bro, you need to think about what you say....I can explain once or a hundred time but if u don't read the response..we won't get anywhere.

Forget God being Just because you just proved that a mother's love is greater ( in above statement) and that ends the benevolence argument right there.

I mean I appreciate input :D it's the redundency I dislike

peace

 

peace

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:D I believe that God's plan for us is not to simply "know Him" but rather his wish for mankind is to be put into the position where we actively choose Him in our life rather than worldly or evil things. If it were as simple as God wishing us to find Him and know him then heaven would be full, and there would be no reason for hell. Now today, all across the globe many many people know of God, but whether or not they choose to accept Him into their life is another story.

 

put back into your equation, if God is omipotent, and God wishes us to be put into a situation for us to be able to choose him then there would be no paradox there.

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put back into your equation, if God is omipotent, and God wishes us to be put into a situation for us to be able to choose him then there would be no paradox there.

regardless..He knows the choice we will make (omniscient) so there is a paradox because even if didn't cause it or anticipate it ( which voids omniotence) ..he knows it, so he can fix it.

Besides..so what if the heaven is full..why is hell necessary at all?

I doubt if real estate would be an issue in Heaven :D

peace

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Peace

 

llogical, I honestly don’t think that this discussion is leading anywhere. Judging from how actively you are posting in this topic, it is clear that you are not at all contented with your decision that God does not exist.

 

Take this example: A mother and her little child. If the mother disappears from the child’s sight what will the child do? Cry, right? Whether it was unintentional or whether the mother wants her child to find her. The child will feel that he has lost his mother and he will cry and give up without even trying to look around the corner. This would be perfectly normal for a child at this young age since his mind is not developed fully in order to know that he should go looking for his mother.

 

The reason why not all people find God could either be because they are looking in the wrong place or using the wrong basis or concept. The other truth also remains and that is ‘He whom God has guided, none can lead astray and he whom God has lead astray, none can guide’. Personally I think the latter is the main reason why not all people find God.

 

llogical, if you want a more interactive discussion, I think you should try using laments terms. Im not sure whether your mathematical formulae are more confusing to us or to you yourself.

I agree with the person who said that God is infinite. Let’s think logically, if God was anything less of infinite, would He really be a GOD?

Having said this, I think you should first come to understand and accept what God is, before trying to prove that He exists because He IS infinite. And if what I am saying is true (and it is) then all your formulae and concepts are null and void.

 

 

Peace

Edited by amar_albilaad

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There is only one thing stopping anyone from acknowledging the existence of God, logically or otherwise - and that is that person's own ego.

 

Our ego tells us we know more than anyone else - so no matter what anyone else says and that includes God, we know better. Why should we be guided or swayed or "conditioned" by anything or anyone else except ourselves - even God?

 

We are preconditioned by our own egos yet complain about being preconditioned by God or religion or whatever.

 

We are the only creatures who have been given that free will to decide for ourselves whether we want to follow the dictates of our own egos or to submit to the will of God.

 

Knowing the consequences of our actions or inactions, it is only the stubbornness of our own desires that will disallow us from acknowledging the existence of God and what we need to do to ensure our own personal salvation.

 

It is this characteristic that distinguishes mankind from the rest of creation - and it has the potential to elevate man to a level higher than that of the angels or to bring him to a level lower than that of the devils.

 

Logically or otherwise, you choose which you want to be! Do the math yourself, no matter how you calculate it, there is only 1 right answer, whether you accept it or not.

 

Good luck! - Even if luck has nothing to do with it.

Edited by yusufar

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Salaams,

Now let's disect "God wanting us to choose" further

Him wanting us to choose doesn't violate omnipotence...bcaz both options are covered.

regardless..He knows the choice we will make (omniscient) so there is a paradox because even if didn't cause it or anticipate it ( which voids omniotence)

 

So does choice void God's omnipotence or not? Or are you saying God being omniscient voids His omnipotence?

This logical pursuit will be fruitless. You need to use more than just your logic.

"And had We willed, We would surely have elevated him therewith but he clung to the earth and followed his own vain desire. So his description is the description of a dog: if you drive him away, he lolls his tongue out, or if you leave him alone, he (still) lolls his tongue out. Such is the description of the people who reject Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.). So relate the stories, perhaps they may reflect."

The verse doesn't end with "perhaps they may claculate" or "perhaps they may solve" or "perhaps they may logically prove". You're being encouraged to reflect. I'm not saying abandon logic, but incorporate it with other parts of your intellect.

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Salaams

 

The reason why not all people find God could either be because they are looking in the wrong place or using the wrong basis or concept. The other truth also remains and that is ‘He whom God has guided, none can lead astray and he whom God has lead astray, none can guide’. Personally I think the latter is the main reason why not all people find God.

So 3/4 of the world is lookin in the wrong place?

Maybe not...Maybe God is deceiving us?

Why would a Good God deceive or lead astray..I though

that Satan does that?

llogical, if you want a more interactive discussion, I think you should try using laments terms. Im not sure whether your mathematical formulae are more confusing to us or to you yourself.

It's a very basic concept, or atleast not as complex as it seems.

only 3 conditions and simple inferences.

To be honest, I'm not sure how to further simplify

About infinity...like i explained before God can't be infinite..infinitely strong, infinitely wise

make more sense.

And if what I am saying is true (and it is) then all your formulate and concepts are null and void.

I am not saying that I can never be wrong..I want to know HOW?

Becaz If what I am saying is true...Every one is wrong...with nothing to back it up

it sounds childish

There is only one thing stopping anyone from acknowledging the existence of God, logically or otherwise - and that is that person's own ego.

I can agree with that..But I already admitted I was wrong when I gave up my faith..that's my proof that I don't let Ego get in the way of truth ...what's yours? :D

People can say "Admit there is God" a trillion times and it wouldn't make a difference...It's all about the evidence :D

 

peace

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salaams

So does choice void God's omnipotence or not? Or are you saying God being omniscient voids His omnipotence?

I am saying that a choice thayt goes against God's will voids omnipotence..

So no matter what we choose, God Willed for us to choose.

This logical pursuit will be fruitless. You need to use more than just your logic.

I can't really sit underneath a BO Tree and meditate for days if that's what u mean :D

Like I've explained..there are only two ways to acquire knowledge..through senses/experience or through cognition/rationale. ( or maybe both)

If there are any more ways then let me know.

I do not know how to experience God...He doesn't take visitors or use instant messenger.

rationale is the only way left..again..I am open to suggestions..If u have an alternate way..lemme know.

You're being encouraged to reflect. I'm not saying abandon logic, but incorporate it with other parts of your intellect.

I have a limited amount of intellect....not sure what can I combine it with but it's already spreading thin :D

It's like this..

God is perfect and Islam is perfect

This means that I shouldn't find 1 teensy weensy contradiction anywhere.

Thisis why I don't need to see any miracles..signs or modern science Marvels in Quran yet.

because 99% of evidence in support doesn't matter even if there is .00001% inconsistency.

We need to resolve the inconsistency first

let me know if u need examples.

But it is important to me that the three basic attributes of God aren't conflicting.

I can't just accept lack of intelligence or any other excuses bcaz that line of though borders Gods of Gao argument .....and is not a fair standard of

judging truth from falsehood.

 

Peace

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I can agree with that..But I already admitted I was wrong when I gave up my faith..that's my proof that I don't let Ego get in the way of truth ...what's yours? :D

People can say "Admit there is God" a trillion times and it wouldn't make a difference...It's all about the evidence :D

 

peace

 

 

Peace llogical

 

Im sure you have researched this topic well in search for answers or evidence as you say. Still nothing? I will say again that Allah guides who He wishes to guide. I mean, even after this looong discussion? There is definitely something wrong.

 

The only advice i can give you and this only applies if you sincerely and honestly wish to find Allah. Who better to turn to but the Creator Himself. Turn to Allah with sincerity in your heart and ask what you wish. You might just learn what you want to know. There's not much we can do. Maybe one day inshaa-Allah, Allah will open your heart and eyes and you'll look back on this day and wonder how you didnt see the truth whilst it was staring you in the face.

 

Peace

 

Peace

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Peace

 

okay then, now lets say for a second that the big bang theory is true, but before there was a big bang what was there?

 

Offcourse the Big Bang is true, it is the beginning of Allah(swt)'s creation. He just sayd "Be" and the Universe came into being...hence the BIG BANG theory. It is completly supportive of the quran.

 

And btw people, stop arguing over wether god exists or not. THere is no absolute proof either way, just clues. Use your brains.

 

Peace

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Our ego tells us we know more than anyone else - so no matter what anyone else says and that includes God, we know better.

 

We are preconditioned by our own egos yet complain about being preconditioned by God or religion or whatever.

 

Logically or otherwise, you choose which you want to be! Do the math yourself, no matter how you calculate it, there is only 1 right answer, whether you accept it or not.

It seems to me there is a large dose of ego in this type of belief too. "There is only 1 right answer, and I am one of the few who know what it is."

 

There are those who "submit to the will of God" by strapping explosives to their bodies and wandering into crowded marketplaces, or by flying planes into buildings. They are quite certain that by doing so, they have not only guaranteed their personal salvation, but have eliminated the time they would have spent awaiting it.

 

I think it's dangerous to abandon reason and logic in our search for the truth. Faith may have its place, but as long as reason and logic still have a place too, faith can never be absolute, there will always be doubt. I think doubt is a good thing. Faith in the absence of doubt leads men to some very dark places -- to burn old women to death because one is certain they're witches, for instance. "There is only one right answer -- witches must burn!"

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I can agree with that..But I already admitted I was wrong when I gave up my faith..that's my proof that I don't let Ego get in the way of truth ...what's yours? :D

 

Perhaps that is what your ego wants you to think. What proof? Logically it can also be proof that your ego does get in the way of truth. My proof is that I refuse to let my ego get in the way of what I already know.

 

People can say "Admit there is God" a trillion times and it wouldn't make a difference...It's all about the evidence :D

 

Sounds like your ego talking. Massive self-deception going on here under the quise of looking for evidence - which your ego has rejected and will continue to reject as long as you let it. Pray for your own good that you manage to overcome your ego. Question is pray to whom? :D I see your logical dilemna. :D

Edited by yusufar

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Salaams

 

Perhaps that is what your ego wants you to think. What proof? Logically it can also be proof that your ego does get in the way of truth. My proof is that I refuse to let my ego get in the way of what I already know.

Sounds like your ego talking. Massive self-deception going on here under the quise of looking for evidence - which your ego has rejected and will continue to reject as long as you let it. Pray for your own good that you manage to overcome your ego. Question is pray to whom? :D I see your logical dilemna. :D

LOL..word of the day "EGO" ( used 10 times in this post :D )

So let me get that straight... asking for rationale is a 'EGO"? :D

How about Faith? No Ego there right?

So

logic/rationale ="Prove it and I will belive"

Belief = No Matter what, I will not change my mind.

Yet rationale =EGO? :D

Wait, Please stay still.... and listen for a moment

....Do you hear Sigmond Freud Laughing. :D

I've said million of times...if there is a better way to persue the truth

with absense of logic, then please do let me knwo what it is. :D

Peace

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