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TheBlindWatchmaker

What Would It Take?

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Why can't you believers accept that you're not so important and special that you have to have a creator?

You're as important to this universe as my pet rat is.

Arrogance + Ignorance = Religion.

 

 

I will compose a list of what it would take to convince me that there is a God (and that Islam is correct), whilst you think up a response to my original question..

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but whats the point being alive if you've got no creator, no purpose, just sit and waste time all of your life, whats the point living then dying?

 

ma'salamah

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Why must we have a purpose?

Is it really impossible that we're as important as Proxima Centauri?

 

We exist for the same reasons that bacteria does.

 

In fact, ignoring the anatomical differences, the only difference between us Humans, and any other animal/creature, is that we're much more intelligent (which I suppose is somewhat an anatomical/physiological result).

 

 

Tell me though, what is the point in life, from a religious viewpoint?

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:D

 

Tell me if there's no God then what are we here for, what's our purpose here, who brought us here, who makes us live through our daily lives and who takes away that life. Tell me can you tell your heart to stop beating for a minute then ask for it to start to beat again

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I don't think that "disturbed" is quite the right word, but I am frustrated that they truly believe in a fictional character made up many many years ago, to explain something that they didn't understand at the time.

 

The mere fact that they're arrogant enough to truly believe that they MUST have had a creator.

 

That they have such dependence of fairy tail type stories.

 

I find it impossible to respect someone like that.

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but thats the same thinking of many athiests, i dunno what exactly you're looking for but it seems as though darwins monkey theories are getting to you...

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:D/Helloooooooo,

 

 

btw this wasn't mentioned in the welcome bit so I'll mention it here,

give the forum rules a read,to see whats in and out the limits of posting.

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?act=boardrules"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?act=boardrules[/url]

 

I won't want u getting banned for sharing how u feel.

 

Oh yeah,I forgot to mention,chill,relax,its ok!

 

:D/bye

Edited by Aaqib Ahmed

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:D

 

If there's no creator then who are what created us

 

 

Ar Rahman-The Beneficient

10. And the earth He has put for the creatures.

 

11. Therein are fruits, date-palms producing sheathed fruit-stalks (enclosing dates).

 

12. And also corn, with (its) leaves and stalk for fodder, and sweet-scented plants.

 

13. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny?

 

14. He created man (Adam) from sounding clay like the clay of pottery.

 

15. And the jinns did He create from a smokeless flame of fire.

 

16. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny?

 

17. (He is) the Lord of the two easts (places of sunrise during early summer and early winter) and the Lord of the two wests (places of sunset during early summer and early winter).

 

18. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny?

 

19. He has let loosed the two seas (the salt water and the sweet) meeting together.

 

20. Between them is a barrier which none of them can transgress.

 

21. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny?

 

22. Out of them both come out pearl and coral.

 

23. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny?

 

24. And His are the ships going and coming in the seas, like mountains.

 

25. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny?

 

26. Whatsoever is on it (the earth) will perish.

 

27. And the Face of your Lord full of Majesty and Honour will abide forever.

 

28. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny?

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hi

 

why don't you just ask a straightforward question so we could give a straightforward answer, and we'll take it from there, thank you.

:D

 

Btw, before stating that 'there is no God', i suggest that you understand the meaning of God first

Edited by Aamina

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:D/Hey there,

 

Heres a link that u may find interesting to read. :D

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islam101(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/tauheed/provingGodExists.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islam101(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/tauheed/provingGodExists.htm[/url]

 

:D/c ya

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Peace

 

Thanks brother Aaqib, that's an excellent link.

 

You would also like to consider the following...

 

If someone tries to do what is morally right they are already acknowledging that there is a moral good to achieve. Such moral value only exists if existence as a whole achieves something morally good, i.e. if existence has a purpose.

 

If you think that existence as a whole has no purpose and achieves nothing, then it follows that whatever you do in life achieves exactly nothing as well - your life would contribute no value to existence.

 

There is no moral good in doing what your own desires find good or what your family or nation finds good. The only way what you do achieves a moral good is if it achieves something towards the purpose of existence. Every good that can be achieved is either instrumental to the purpose of existence and therefore a true moral good or it is false good and worth nothing.

 

The core of all value and purpose to existence is commonly known by the name Allah or God. He is the ultimate purpose to existence and the achievement of what is morally good equates to getting closer to Him. Allah is more than we can ever fully understand but in order to have morally good thinking it is essential to believe in Allah in some sense whatever name we use for Him.

 

It is also essential to reject as having any hold over us anything or anyone who asserts that a good can be achieved without it being instrumental to the purpose to existence. i.e. without it being for the sake of Allah.

 

peace out

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Hi TheBlindWatchmaker , I don't see any purpose of this Topic, is it going to benefit anyone, I don't think so. It will be like 2 children arguing IT IS - IT'S NOT, IT IS -IT'S NOT...........................

..............................

............

Brothers and sisters there is no sense in arguing, because you will just be wasting your time, Allah does not need us, we need Allah, and Allah does not need us to justify his presence. InshaAllah when someone is looking for the truth they will find it.

 

 

What would it take to convince you [Muslims] that there is no God?

 

You cannot convince any Muslim that there is no Allah (God), and if by Hook or Crook, you somehow do convince someone, then, I would say THAT PERSON DID NOT BELIEVE IN Allah IN THE FIRST PLACE, ANYWAYS.

 

Call me stubborn, call me arrogant, call me anything, Your beliefs are for you and My beliefs are for me. dont bother convincing me, and I won't bother convincing you. But I will Sincerely pray for you that Allah opens up your eyes to the Truth before it's too late.

Take care, regards, umAhmad.

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:D

 

I have a suggestion for all atheists aswell:

 

If you want to understand that there is a creator, then open your eyes deep within your heart.

 

Wa'ssalaam

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Before reading through, and responding to the other comments, my response to Aaqib's link is that Dr Zakir Naik knows very little of science, particularly evolution.

 

The concept of someone stumbling across a watch, and making the assumption that it must have had a creator due to it's complexity is the inspiration for the title of the best selling "The Blind Watchmaker" by Richard Dawkins (the worlds leading evolutionary biologist); which gives a complete explanation for the development of intelligent life, without the needs for a creator.

 

Not a single one of you have read that, have you?

 

 

Furthermore, roughly how long ago was the Qur'an written? About 1,400 years ago, yes?

 

Well, it's funny that.. because 600 years prior to that, Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Earth..

(That's right, it was known that the Earth was spherical (with very little eccentricity) prior to the writing of the Qur'an).

 

erm.

 

 

More scientific ignorance on the religious behalf?

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Hi, Don't presume please, that is not nice. In fact I have read the book you are talking about cover to cover, and also many books written around Darwin's theory of Evolution. There was a time, when I was younger, I wanted to check around, so all the research and all. nothing convinced me to not believe in my Creator. And No, I did not grow up in an Islamic background, far from it, I grew up surrounded by people who called themselves Atheists, like you.

 

Bye.

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:D/Peace,

 

The fact that you think belief in a Creator is born of arrogance, depicts how little you understand the concept of God, and our relationship as human beings with our Creator.

 

On the contrary, arrogance comes from believing that we are in this world merely to exist and please our desires, and that we will not be accountable for anything we have rought. Arrogance is believing that we are here just here to satisfy ourselves, and that essentially we lead a selfish existence.

 

As Muslims our primary belief is that we were created solely to worship and serve the Almighty. Within the scope of worship come many things. Even serving my fellow man for the sake of attaining God's pleasure is seen as an act of worship. So the relationship is one of humble servitude to God and all that He :D created in His divine wisdom. We are tought that arrogance is one of the many diseases of the heart, and are encouraged to spiritually train ourselves into removing such diseases from within ourselves. Our Beloved Prophet, peace be upon him, whom we try to emulate in the way we live our life, was the most humble of human beings before God. This was a man who was guarenteed with paradise yet spent day and night in endless worship, constantly asking for God's forgiveness and mercy. These are not the actions of an arrogant man.

 

Therefore, if your quest is to try to argue with Muslims about the ins and outs of our beliefs, until you achieve the goal of convincing us that our belief in God is misguided, then know your mission is a futile one. God is the only one capable of changing what is in people's hearts. It will not be us changing your mind, nor you changing what is in our hearts.

 

As my sister UmAhmed rightly stated: To you your belief, and to us ours.

 

If you have come here to gain a deeper understanding of Islam, even if this yearning comes from insincere intentions, then we will provide you with information as and were we can, however do not come here to begin an endless debate, the thread will just be closed, and in the end you will have wasted your time and achieved nothing.

 

With peace.

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