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Concept Of God In Christianity

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CONCEPT OF GOD IN CHRISTIANITY

- By Dr. Zakir Naik

 

I INTRODUCTION TO CHRISTIANITY:

 

Christianity is a Semitic religion, which claims to have nearly 1.2 billion adherents all over the world. Christianity owes its name to Jesus Christ (peace be on him). The Holy Bible is the sacred scripture of the Christians:

a) The Bible is divided into two parts, the Old Testament and the New Testament. The Old Testament is the Holy Scripture of the Jews and contains records of all the prophets of the Jews that came before Jesus (pbuh).

The New Testament contains records of the life of Jesus (pbuh).

B) The complete Bible, i.e. the Old Testament and the New Testament put together, contains 73 books. However, the Protestant Bible i.e. the King James Version, contains only 66 books as they consider 7 books of the Old Testament to be apocrypha, i.e. of doubtful authority.

Therefore the Old Testament of the Catholics, contains 46 books and that of the Protestants, 39 books. However the New Testament of both these sects contains 27 books.

 

II Position of Jesus (pbuh) in Islam:

 

(i) Islam is the only non-Christian faith, which makes it an article of faith to believe in Jesus (pbuh). No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe in Jesus (pbuh).

 

(ii) We believe that he was one of the mightiest Messengers of Allah (swt).

 

(iii) We believe that he was born miraculously, without any male intervention, which many modern day Christians do not believe.

 

(iv) We believe he was the Messiah translated Christ (pbuh).

 

(v) We believe that he gave life to the dead with God’s permission.

 

(iv) We believe that he healed those born blind, and the lepers with God’s permission.

 

III CONCEPT OF GOD IN CHRISTIANITY:

 

1. Jesus Christ (pbuh) never claimed Divinity

One may ask, if both Muslims and Christians love and respect Jesus (pbuh), where exactly is the parting of ways? The major difference between Islam and Christianity is the Christians’ insistence on the supposed divinity of Christ (pbuh). A study of the Christian scriptures reveals that Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity. In fact there is not a single unequivocal statement in the entire Bible where Jesus (pbuh) himself says, "I am God" or where he says, "worship me". In fact the Bible contains statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in which he preached quite the contrary. The following statements in the Bible are attributed to Jesus Christ (pbuh):

(i) "My Father is greater than I." [The Bible, John 14:28]

(ii) "My Father is greater than all." [The Bible, John 10:29]

(iii) "…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…." [The Bible, Mathew 12:28]

(iv) "…I with the finger of God cast out devils…." [The Bible, Luke 11:20]

(v) "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." [The Bible, John 5:30]

 

2. The Mission of Jesus Christ (pbuh) – to Fulfill the Law

Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity for himself. He clearly announced the nature of his mission. Jesus (pbuh) was sent by God to confirm the previous Judaic law. This is clearly evident in the following statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in the Gospel of Mathew:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." [The Bible, Mathew 5:17-20]

 

3. God Sent Jesus' (pbuh)

 

The Bible mentions the prophetic nature of Jesus (pbuh) mission in the following verses:

 

(i) "… and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me."

[The Bible, John 14:24]

 

(ii) "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent." [The Bible, John 17:3]

 

4. Jesus Refuted even the Remotest Suggestion of his Divinity

 

Consider the following incident mentioned in the Bible:

"And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’

And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "

[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]

Jesus (pbuh) did not say that to have the eternal life of paradise, man should believe in him as Almighty God or worship him as God, or believe that Jesus (pbuh) would die for his sins. On the contrary he said that the path to salvation was through keeping the commandments. It is indeed striking to note the difference between the words of Jesus Christ (pbuh) and the Christian dogma of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus (pbuh).

 

5. Jesus (pbuh) of Nazareth – a Man Approved of God

 

The following statement from the Bible supports the Islamic belief that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet of God.

"Ye men of israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know." [The Bible, Acts 2:22]

 

6. The First Commandment is that God is One

 

The Bible does not support the Christian belief in trinity at all. One of the scribes once asked Jesus (pbuh) as to which was the first commandment of all, to which Jesus (pbuh) merely repeated what Moses (pbuh) had said earlier:

"Shama israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adonai Ikhad."

This is a Hebrew quotation, which means:

"Hear, O israel; The Lord our God is one Lord." [The Bible, Mark 12:29]

It is striking that the basic teachings of the Church such as Trinity and vicarious atonement find no mention in the Bible. In fact, various verses of the Bible point to Jesus’ (pbuh) actual mission, which was to fulfill the law revealed to Prophet Moses (pbuh). Indeed Jesus (pbuh) rejected any suggestions that attributed divinity to him, and explained his miracles as the power of the One True God.

Jesus (pbuh) thus reiterated the message of monotheism that was given by all earlier prophets of Almighty God.

NOTE: All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.

 

IV CONCEPT OF GOD IN OLD TESTAMENT:

 

1. God is One

 

The following verse from the book of Deuteronomy contains an exhortation from Moses (pbuh):

"Shama israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adna Ikhad". It is a Hebrew quotation which means: "Hear, O israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"

[The Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4]

 

2. Unity of God in the Book of Isaiah

 

The following verses are from the Book of Isaiah:

 

(i) "I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour."

[The Bible, Isaiah 43:11]

 

(ii) "I am Lord, and there is none else, there is no God besides me."

[The Bible, Isaiah 45:5]

 

(iii) "I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me."

[The Bible, Isaiah 46:9]

 

3. Old Testament condemns idol worship

 

(i) Old Testament condemns idol worship in the following verses:

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God."[The Bible, Exodus 20:3-5]

 

(ii) A similar message is repeated in the book of Deuteronomy:

"Thou shalt have none other gods before me."

"Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that in the earth beneath, or that is in the water beneath the earth."

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God." [The Bible, Deuteronomy 5:7-9]

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1. Jesus Christ (pbuh) never claimed Divinity

One may ask, if both Muslims and Christians love and respect Jesus (pbuh), where exactly is the parting of ways? The major difference between Islam and Christianity is the Christians’ insistence on the supposed divinity of Christ (pbuh). A study of the Christian scriptures reveals that Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity. In fact there is not a single unequivocal statement in the entire Bible where Jesus (pbuh) himself says, "I am God" or where he says, "worship me". In fact the Bible contains statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in which he preached quite the contrary. The following statements in the Bible are attributed to Jesus Christ (pbuh):

(i) "My Father is greater than I." [The Bible, John 14:28]

(ii) "My Father is greater than all." [The Bible, John 10:29]

(iii) "…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…." [The Bible, Mathew 12:28]

(iv) "…I with the finger of God cast out devils…." [The Bible, Luke 11:20]

(v) "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." [The Bible, John 5:30]

 

John 8:24

That is why I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins."

 

Christ made it clear that if we don't accept him as God (who revealed Himself to Abraham as "I AM" or "YAHWEH"), we will not be saved.

 

John 17:5

Now glorify me, Father, with you, with the glory that I had with you before the world began.

 

Christ makes it clear that he was a preexistent divine being.

 

John 18:36

Jesus answered, "My kingdom does not belong to this world. If my kingdom did belong to this world, my attendants (would) be fighting to keep me from being handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my kingdom is not here."

 

Christ makes it clear, in fact, that he is a heavenly King.

 

 

 

 

2. The Mission of Jesus Christ (pbuh) – to Fulfill the Law

Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity for himself. He clearly announced the nature of his mission. Jesus (pbuh) was sent by God to confirm the previous Judaic law. This is clearly evident in the following statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in the Gospel of Mathew:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." [The Bible, Mathew 5:17-20]

 

Luke 24:44-48

He said to them, "These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and in the prophets and psalms must be fulfilled."

45 Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures.

46 11 And he said to them, "Thus it is written that the Messiah would suffer and rise from the dead on the third day

47 and that repentance, for the forgiveness of sins, would be preached in his name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

48 You are witnesses of these things.

 

Christ fulfilled the prophecies written about Him in the laws of Moses, the writings of prophets, and psalms. You will not find any Christian sect in history that doesn't believe Jesus died on the cross for our sins, and rose again in three days.

 

 

 

 

 

 

4. Jesus Refuted even the Remotest Suggestion of his Divinity

 

Consider the following incident mentioned in the Bible:

"And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’

And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "

[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]

Jesus (pbuh) did not say that to have the eternal life of paradise, man should believe in him as Almighty God or worship him as God, or believe that Jesus (pbuh) would die for his sins. On the contrary he said that the path to salvation was through keeping the commandments. It is indeed striking to note the difference between the words of Jesus Christ (pbuh) and the Christian dogma of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus (pbuh).

 

 

Matthew 16:15-17

"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"

16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.

 

 

 

6. The First Commandment is that God is One

 

The Bible does not support the Christian belief in trinity at all. One of the scribes once asked Jesus (pbuh) as to which was the first commandment of all, to which Jesus (pbuh) merely repeated what Moses (pbuh) had said earlier:

"Shama israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adonai Ikhad."

This is a Hebrew quotation, which means:

"Hear, O israel; The Lord our God is one Lord." [The Bible, Mark 12:29]

It is striking that the basic teachings of the Church such as Trinity and vicarious atonement find no mention in the Bible. In fact, various verses of the Bible point to Jesus’ (pbuh) actual mission, which was to fulfill the law revealed to Prophet Moses (pbuh). Indeed Jesus (pbuh) rejected any suggestions that attributed divinity to him, and explained his miracles as the power of the One True God.

Jesus (pbuh) thus reiterated the message of monotheism that was given by all earlier prophets of Almighty God.

NOTE: All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.

 

Christians don't believe in three Gods, but one God, so there is no extremely obvious anti-Trinity statment here.

 

Phillipians 2:5-8

Have among yourselves the same attitude that is also yours in Christ Jesus,

6 Who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped.

7 Rather, he emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, coming in human likeness; and found human in appearance,

8 he humbled himself, becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross.

 

The Bible portrays Christ as a preexistent divine being, one in nature with God, and so forth. The Trinity is a statment, a summary, of who God is in the Christian religion. It is derived solely from scripture.

 

Peace,

JCBeliever

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To be fair, there have been many different christian conceptualizations of God and Jesus. Even among the gospels there is a difference in christology and a few different ways to smooth the problem of trinity and one God.

 

Is this offtopic?

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I noticed that this gentleman said that Jesus never clamed to be God. This would be an incorrect statement

 

Joh 10:30-31 I and my Father are one.31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him

 

You must ask yourself. If the Jews didn't think He was calling himself to God why would they throw stones?

 

Joh 8:58-59 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

In this verse Jesus was talking to the Pharisees. They new which scripture Jesus was quoteing and what kind of statement he was making when he called himself the I Am. That is way they were throwing stones again in this verse. In Ex 3:14 it says "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." You can see that God has called himself the I Am and so has

 

Joh 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

 

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

 

This is Jesus talking to his Disciples . In verse 6 Thomas asked how can he know the father. Jesus answers with this verse. Joh 14:7. What I find that is interesting is not only does Jesus say that you know the Father if you know him but you have also seen him.

 

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

 

Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

 

One thing a person should notice when you see how Jesus talks about Himself and God the Father is that they mirror themselves. So If you do something unto Jesus you also do it to God himself. I can’t say if you love me then you love my father because we are too different people. Still Jesus says if you know me or if you love me then you love my father. This is because they are one in the same. Whatever Jesus did so did God the Father. We know that God is Jesus's Father through many verses. Ps 2:7-9, Jer 1:5-9, Mt 3:17, Mt 1:20

 

Still if you do believe that Jesus is the messiah you must be aware of Isa 9:6

 

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.â€

 

Now you may ask me how do I know that this verse it talking about Jesus?

 

In Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (the name Immanuel means God with us)

 

As you can see the prophecies clam that the messiah will be God himself.

 

Yes Jesus did come to full fill the Law but you must ask yourself what was the law for?

 

Deu 26:16-17 “ The LORD your God commands you this day to follow these decrees and laws; carefully observe them with all your heart and with all your soul. 17 You have declared this day that the LORD is your God and that you will walk in his ways, that you will keep his decrees, commands and laws, and that you will obey him. And the LORD has declared this day that you are his people, his treasured possession as he promised, and that you are to keep all his commands. 19 He has declared that he will set you in praise, fame and honor high above all the nations he has made and that you will be a people holy to the LORD your God, as he promised.

“

 

The law was given so that God's chosen people would be holy and above all nations. This can only happen if they keep all of the commandments. Unfortunately a normal human being won’t keep all these laws. Therefore Jesus came to be the one to fulfill the law. So that God could call upon his nations of holy people. Those who will truly follow Jesus in sprit and truth. But still we are imperfect and unable to do this sinless. That is the reason Jesus had to die for our sins. So that with our sins will be forever forgiven. Then His Holy Sprit will dwelling within us. That way through Jesus we fulfill the requirements God has placed for his people. So now all we must do is confess our sins in Jesus Christ and believe that he came and died for ours sins.

 

Isa 49:5-6 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength 6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

 

Therefore through the blood of Christ has made a new convent with those who will believe in him as their Lord and Savior.

 

Mt 26:26-28 ¶ And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

 

Jer 31:31-33 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of israel, and with the house of Judah:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

 

Isa 49:22-23 Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.

 

 

"And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’

And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "

[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]

 

Remember this is a question for the young man. He didn’t say that he wasn’t good, or that he wasn‘t God. What is interesting is that he didn’t say the Father. He said God. When Jesus talks he usually uses his father in Heaven or the/my father. But here He says God.

 

Then if you read on, after Matt 17, the young man says that he has followed the commandment. Then Jesus says sell everything and follow me. Now if Jesus was not God how could following him give this young man eternal life? Also if He is not God how can He tell him that he will have treasure in heaven?

 

Mt 19:21 “Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.â€

 

 

In the old testment God is one. We are not claming that god is three. Not what we are saying is that Jesus the holy sprit and God the father are all one almight being. Being almighty allows you to do what you want. You must also take in account some other verses.

 

Ge 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Ge 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Ps 110:1 ¶ <<A Psalm of David.>>

The LORD said unto my Lord,
Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor,

The mighty God
, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.â€

Ps 2:7-9 ¶ I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Isa 42:1-3 ¶ Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

Ps 96:13 Before the LORD: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.

Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

there are others and the more and if you study to prophecies of Jesus the more you see that He has the same attributes as God in the old testament because He is God in the old testament

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To be fair, there have been many different christian conceptualizations of God and Jesus.

 

Yes, this is what happens when people don't want to understand what the Bible says about Jesus.

 

Even among the gospels there is a difference in christology and a few different ways to smooth the problem of trinity and one God.

 

Is this offtopic?

 

What do you mean by gospels? There is only one Gospel, preached by Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and other disciples of Jesus Christ. They all believed in Jesus Christ for who He really is.

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Yes, this is what happens when people don't want to understand what the Bible says about Jesus.

What do you mean by gospels? There is only one Gospel, preached by Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and other disciples of Jesus Christ. They all believed in Jesus Christ for who He really is.

 

By Gospels, I meant Gospel of Mark, Gospel of Luke etc. As well as non-canonical gospels such as Gospel of Peter/Thomas/Judas etc and some aprocrpha(sp?).

 

If you compare the cannonical gospels, there are some big differences which reflect the communities in which they where written. Take for example the gospel of Mark. It declares some of the laws no longer valid (like food laws). It has a distinctly pro-gentile christian theme. The apostles are especially interesting as they are portrayed as well...stupid. There is even a point where Jesus calls Peter Satan.

Compare this to Matthew's Gospel. In Mts version, Jesus is much more Jewish in teachings. He says that no law shall be changed in the slightest, instead he is adding to them. The point is driven home with numerous referrences as Jesus as the new Moses/David/Elijah

 

Now compare the synoptic gospels to John. Or Hebrews.

 

You start to see a difference most likely due to the fact the gospels where written to address problems in the local community. Each community with its owns values/outlook/ideas of what Jesus meant

 

These differences manifest themselves more clearly the later you go into christian history. (Thou you can see it as early as when Paul wrote his letters by the issues he addresses)

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Those who may be interested in knowing just how different Paul's "Gospel" was are invited to read the thread on (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=28610&st=0#entry289337"]The Gospel of Paul (Paul's Different Gospel)[/url]

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No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe in Jesus
:sl:...what does it mean? in order to be a muslim i musn't believe that Jesus existed?

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By Gospels, I meant Gospel of Mark, Gospel of Luke etc. As well as non-canonical gospels such as Gospel of Peter/Thomas/Judas etc and some aprocrpha(sp?).

 

For your information, it's not right to say Gospels when referring to the four Gospel books of the Bible ... for they are all one Gospel! Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John preached the same Gospel ... so you can't say Gospels (with an 's').

 

Concerning the non-canonical "gospels", there's a reason why they're non-canonical. They are not from God! In fact, they contradict God's Gospel!

 

If you compare the cannonical gospels, there are some big differences which reflect the communities in which they where written. Take for example the gospel of Mark. It declares some of the laws no longer valid (like food laws). It has a distinctly pro-gentile christian theme.
The Gospel according to Matthew also declares some of the laws no longer valid. Plus, Luke and John do not disagree with Mark on this ... so what's your point?

 

The apostles are especially interesting as they are portrayed as well...stupid.

 

Ok, so?

 

There is even a point where Jesus calls Peter Satan.
Jesus didn't call Peter Satan. He was addressing Satan, not Peter.

 

Compare this to Matthew's Gospel. In Mts version, Jesus is much more Jewish in teachings. He says that no law shall be changed in the slightest, instead he is adding to them. The point is driven home with numerous referrences as Jesus as the new Moses/David/Elijah

 

Have you read the Bible? Honestly.

 

Friend, Matthew's version (just like Mark's version) declares some of the laws no longer valid. Read Matthew 15:10-20.

 

Also, you are wrong when you say that Jesus added to the Law.

 

Now compare the synoptic gospels to John. Or Hebrews.
Gospel ... not gospels.

 

You start to see a difference most likely due to the fact the gospels where written to address problems in the local community. Each community with its owns values/outlook/ideas of what Jesus meant

 

I see no difference.

 

Why don't you elaborate?

 

These differences manifest themselves more clearly the later you go into christian history. (Thou you can see it as early as when Paul wrote his letters by the issues he addresses)

 

Elaborate.

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:sl:...what does it mean? in order to be a muslim i musn't believe that Jesus existed?

 

That's not what he said.

 

But either way, Muslims don't believe in Jesus ... because they don't believe in who He really is.

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That's not what he said.

 

But either way, Muslims don't believe in Jesus ... because they don't believe in who He really is.

 

Funny, I could say the same about Christians, who don't believe who he really is.

 

Salam.

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That's not what he said.

 

But either way, Muslims don't believe in Jesus ... because they don't believe in who He really is.

Or maybe you dont beleive in who he really is. i have a really interesting video for you to watch, i will add it soon.

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and to save you some time, here is a link to what beget means. (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetanswers(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/topic/beget"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetanswers(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/topic/beget[/url]

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Here it another one, a debate of wether the bible is the word of God, Deedat proves that the bibel is not the same as it was first revealed to the prophet Jesus (AS). but is rather went through a series of editing by the human hand.

Edited by Pashton

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Funny, I could say the same about Christians, who don't believe who he really is.

 

Salam.

 

You can say that all you want, but that doesn't make what the Bible says about Jesus wrong.

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Or maybe you dont beleive in who he really is. i have a really interesting video for you to watch, i will add it soon.

 

I believe what God's Word says He is. :sl:

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and to save you some time, here is a link to what beget means. (you are not allowed to post links yet)"http://############answers######/topic/beget"]############answers######/topic/beget[/url]

 

What does "beget" have to do with what we're discussing?

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Here it another one, a debate of wether the bible is the word of God, Deedat proves that the bibel is not the same as it was first revealed to the prophet Jesus (AS). but is rather went through a series of editing by the human hand.

 

I'm not interested in what Deedat said.

 

What do YOU have to say?

 

Can you, in your own words, tell me why the Bible is not God's Word?

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What does "beget" have to do with what we're discussing?

It has absoltely everything to do with it, you claim that Jesus is the son of god... yet do you beleive that God has begotten a son? *

 

*Unnecessary, inappropriate and offensive facetious remark removed.yusufar

Edited by yusufar

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I'm not interested in what Deedat said.

What do YOU have to say?

 

Can you, in your own words, tell me why the Bible is not God's Word?

You are a funny guy, i say exactly what deedat have to say, if you cant refute him, then just admit it. dont be ashamed even the preist wasnt able to. so until YOU prove to us that the bible is the word of God all your theories are going down the drain. :sl:

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That's not what he said.

 

But either way, Muslims don't believe in Jesus ... because they don't believe in who He really is.

 

lollllll nows that funny, i finally was forced to smile today lol.

 

And to Pashton don't be an idiot and speak to others harshly or criticise them in an unnapropriate manner...is it hard to be polite and nice or what?

 

:sl:

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:sl: / Greetings

 

Apologies for some defects in the video.

 

Before some who will reply in opposition to the points being raised about the video, contemplate a few things first. I know that many verses that some in this thread have extracted from the Bible and posted here seems to appear that Jesus (peace be upon him) claimed to be God, in a clear cut way. But here, the speaker brings out verses from the Bible too; so contemplate whether there may be a contradiction of the verses you have cited, which means a contradiction of the belief as Jesus as a divine being.

 

I suggest the same thing can be done for the late Ahmad Deedat's videos which Pashton brother has psoted...

 

[iframe]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_video.google(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/videoplay?docid=-2988618481721105909[i'm not allowed to use this tag yet]

 

:sl: / Greetings

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It has absoltely everything to do with it, you claim that Jesus is the son of god... yet do you beleive that God has begotten a son? *

 

*Unnecessary, inappropriate and offensive facetious remark removed.yusufar

 

God has a son ... yes.

 

By the way, God didn't give birth to His Son ... if that's what you think. :sl:

 

"To beget" means "to be the father of" ... not "to give birth to".

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You are a funny guy, i say exactly what deedat have to say, if you cant refute him, then just admit it. dont be ashamed even the preist wasnt able to. so until YOU prove to us that the bible is the word of God all your theories are going down the drain. :sl:

 

So you base your thoughts on what other humans say.

 

I see ...

 

Let me know when you're willing to discuss with me, instead of posting for me video clips.

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So you base your thoughts on what other humans say.

 

I see ...

 

Let me know when you're willing to discuss with me, instead of posting for me video clips.

I said i do not beleive that the bible we have today is the word of God and i posted the video as a proof, so until you disprove that your arguments are...

 

Now do you want to discuss the matter? :sl:

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