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amar_albilaad

Evolution?

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:D brothers and sisters of IF

 

I have recently had a discussion with a colleague of mine who is agnostic. He believes in evolution and that the world started with molecules and atoms that evolved into the species that we have today. I myself do not know the concept of evolution and as a muslimah, i dont believe in it. I know that there are many IF members that have embraced Islam maa-shaa-Allah and who might have also believed in the same concept.

 

I need to know what are good points to bring across to this person, in order to make him understand my point from an Islamic perspective. What are the main issues that can make a person realize that the concept of evolution is false.

 

Shukran in advance

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PropellerAds

Salaams

I can help by playing the devil's advocate. :D

Peace

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was Islam not an evolution over previous religions?

 

why then do you rail so much against the idea of physical evolution?

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Indeed, its getting harder and harder to argue against evolution. Science is quite clearly not on your side in this regard. My advice, stop listening to clowns like Harun Yahya and read a real biology book. You may be surprised.

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I believe in the big-bang and evolution so really cant help you there sis.

 

Peace

Aren't evolution and Islam conflicting philosophies, though?

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Aren't evolution and Islam conflicting philosophies, though?

Islam is not a philosophy...it's a religion...stop mixing those up ppl!

 

anywayz, I'd recommend an approach where you enter enemy territory.

 

If you want to prove X wrong, go to where X is supported ~ in this case you'd look to scientific journals, and the general scientific community as a whole ~ btw, religion gets ruled out in science as it can't be used to prove anything, keep that in mind. You're looking for a logical proof against evolution. Go to their territory and find out what evolution is from them. Based on that, make your own analysis of evolution and present us with the logical flaws you come across :D

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Slm

 

Shukran for all your input. I agree with Mr. Danger that Islam contradicts evolution, however from what i have read, Islam does give an explanation for the Big Bang but not evolution as muslims would certainly agree.

 

Am i right when i say that people who believe in evolution actually believe that the world started with atoms, molecules and abit of sun (or whatever the explanation may be)?

 

I was watching a lecture of Sheikh Abdu Rahim Green where he put it quite simply.

He asked the audiance what his cell-phone was primarily made of. Mainly of sand and oil right? the silicon chip etc. Then he said what if i told you that no one made this phone but rather i found it in an arabian desert (where there's oil, sand and lots of sun) and this phone just evolved into what it is now. Would you believe that?? Of course not because its the most stupid explanation and no one wil believe that.

 

Yet they believe that the human ( who is thousands of folds more complex than the cellphone and wonderful :D ) is a product of coincidence. Does it make sense?

 

I am not a genius on these issues and therefore i cannot debate about it. That is why i seek assistance from those who know more.

 

:D

Edited by amar_albilaad

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Contrary to popular belief, Islam and evolution are not incompatible or in opposition to one another nor does Islam contradict evolution.

 

Everything we see (and do not see) did not come into existence by itself - with the exception of God. Everything else other than God is His Creation.

 

All Creation has a basic building block and everything was created with that basic building block - as to what it is that is for you to find out :D - Islam knows the answer and I believe even science has recently become aware of it. Even the smallest created thing (call it atom or quark or lepton or gluon - or whatever) is made of this basic building block - which essentially by itself has no substance.

 

Suffice to say for the time being that before God created all of Creation, nothing else existed other than God and that the basic building block of Creation is not of the Essence of God.

 

God alone is not subject to time. All Creation is subject to time. With time comes change. With change comes evolution. With evolution comes experience. With experience comes science. With science comes explanation. With explanation comes understanding. With understanding comes enlightenment. With enlightenment comes awareness. With awareness comes submission to God.

 

God did not create the first human being at the beginning of Creation but rather at the end of it. The first human being whom God created (Adam [pbuh]) was unique and complete in himself and not subject to evolution as everything else created millions (or even billions) of years before him was.

 

Let us be clear on this.

 

Kind regards,

 

yusufar

Edited by yusufar

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Am i right when i say that people who believe in evolution actually believe that the world started with atoms, molecules and abit of sun (or whatever the explanation may be)?

 

I believe in evolution because I believe in the fact that species evolve and change over time to keep pace with the changing environment. What makes you think this is un-islamic?

 

Peace

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:D

 

i don't believe in evolution because of scientific reasons. when you first read evolution, it makes sense. but if you read the works of the skeptics of evolution, you will notice great flaws in the theory of evolution. michael behe, an american biochemist, wrote a book called darwin's black box highlighting some of the flaws of evolution. brothers and sisters should read the other side of the story before forming strong opinions.

 

:D

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He asked the audiance what his cell-phone was primarily made of. Mainly of sand and oil right? the silicon chip etc. Then he said what if i told you that no one made this phone but rather i found it in an arabian desert (where there's oil, sand and lots of sun) and this phone just evolved into what it is now. Would you believe that?? Of course not because its the most stupid explanation and no one wil believe that.

 

So you believe that it is stupid to believe that something complex was not made by something more powerful or more intelligent?

 

In that case, who created Allah?

 

My point is not to attempt to dissuade you from believing in God, but to show the fallacy in that line of reasoning.

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:D/peace on all

 

So you believe that it is stupid to believe that something complex was not made by something more powerful or more intelligent?...

 

it would be irrational to believe that a complex system would be created by random chance. it's like a passenger jet being created after a cyclone passes over a garbage dump.

 

 

In that case, who created Allah?

 

My point is not to attempt to dissuade you from believing in God, but to show the fallacy in that line of reasoning.

 

Allah was not created. He always existed. We think choronologically because we live in the dimension of time. And time is a creation of Allah.

 

Peace

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:D

 

Read what brother Yusufar posted, there's not a conflict between Islam and science.

 

Creatures adapt to their environment - or die. Science cannot explain how life began, where it began or why it began. Islam can.

 

Science cannot explain where the universe came from - before you shout "big bang" - where did the mass for the big bang come from and more importantly, who started time? Scientists are no closer to answering these questions than they were 100 years ago.

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:D

 

I used to take interest in science, until i heard Pluto is not a planet.

 

:D

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:D

 

i don't believe in evolution because of scientific reasons. when you first read evolution, it makes sense. but if you read the works of the skeptics of evolution, you will notice great flaws in the theory of evolution. michael behe, an american biochemist, wrote a book called darwin's black box highlighting some of the flaws of evolution. brothers and sisters should read the other side of the story before forming strong opinions.

 

:D

and you chose to stop after reading the works of the skeptics? You know there is alot of material put out there by scientists countering the skeptics? Also if the skeptics you come across are creationists scientists then whatever information they provide is not very reliable since they aren't really scientists anyway.

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Hi Livius,

 

The creation story in Islam is described in the Qur’an as the creation of the universe by Allah’s will with a single command: “Be!†Several verses in the Qur’an highlight Allah’s power of creation: [Creator of the heavens and the earth from nothingness, He has only to say when He wills a thing: “Be,†and it is] (Al-Baqarah 2:117)

 

and, [That is how God creates what He wills, when He decrees a thing, He says “Be,†and it is] (Aal `Imran 3:47).

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Salam,

 

In that case, who created Allah? My point is not to attempt to dissuade you from believing in God, but to show the fallacy in that line of reasoning.

 

Oh but there exists no fallacy, you see. :D

 

What we normally refer to as "God" is a transcendent reality above and beyond the limitations of space and time. Therefore, the concept of a beginning does not apply to the First Principle (i.e God). I understand this is especially difficult for many of us to envision, however we must refrain from the attempt. We are beings, and consequently we are subject to time and space in the realm of creation. God the infinite on the other hand could never have been created since the process of a creation requires both time and space to occur. Whether or not you wish to call this "reality" a "being" or a "deity" is entirely a personal matter.

 

With regards to the Islam / evolution compatibility theory, I shall remain agnostic on this one for a while. The general Muslim compatibilist stance on evolution seems to point out that evolution is possible only among non-human species. If Darwinism proves somewhat to be true, it is inherently a creationary process of animal evolution exclusive to human beings. I don't believe creatures can successfully evolve without a Prime Mover. In materialism, people would naturally find the concept of a divine evolver simply ludicrous due to their lack of understanding of metaphysics. These folks might subsequently turn to Natural or Scientific Pantheism in search for a plausible, more suitable reasoning in explaining the mystery of nature. As a result, they deify the universe and all its nature as "God."

 

I guess the reason humans are excluded from theistic evolution in Islam is because the holy Qur'an describes the advent of man in the context of Adam & Eve; that we simply "emerged" on earth (from Heaven) as was the divine will.

 

Kind regards,

 

Averroes

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and you chose to stop after reading the works of the skeptics? You know there is alot of material put out there by scientists countering the skeptics? Also if the skeptics you come across are creationists scientists then whatever information they provide is not very reliable since they aren't really scientists anyway.

 

would you cosider francis crick a "real" scientist? after realizing the exponential complexity of human beings, the longtime atheist now "believes" that life was designed by an advanced alien civilization (Life Itself). Through this theory he "solves the embarrassing problem of how, within a few billion years after the earth cooled, extraordinary complex forms of self-reproducing entities appeared on earth." ofcourse, instead of "aliens" I say "Allah."

 

peace

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Islam is not a philosophy...it's a religion...stop mixing those up ppl!

 

Islam is the truth. it is a religion for the layman and a philosophy for the scholars.

 

peace

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Salaam

 

I agree with averroes. We cannot begin to try to comprehend the qualities of Allah Almighty and for us to question how Allah came into existance would not be permissable since we will be delving into Ielm-alghaib and this is beyond human comprehension.

 

Yusufar, if we look at the meaning of the word evolution, all of us would agree that things change all the time since this world is a dynamic system. This is only possible because Allah (swt) is (3ala koellie shay-ien Qadeer). But for us as muslims to believe that creation was brought about by the theory of evolution is unacceptable since we know that the Qur'an states the creation of Adam (as).

 

I agree that there is no conflict between science and Islam. Many people turn away from religion because they say that science now gives answers to things that religion used to give answers to. This should actually make us realize the link between the two since science is just used as a tool to understand the natural processes that Allah (swt) has put in place.

 

Another question that i have. Evolution ocurrs by things ineracting together and forming something different right? Then if these two things interact repeatedly, they should produce the same result, right? Scientifically and naturally we NEVER have the same outcome (subhaanallah). Shouldnt this prove something?

 

Wallahoe wa rasooloehoe a3lam

 

salaam

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Oh but there exists no fallacy, you see.

 

Oh, but there is.

 

One cannot say in one breath that nothing complex can come from nothing, then in the next breath say that something as complex as God did.

 

Quotes from the Quran cannot be used as support considering that 5/6 of the world believes it is fiction.

 

Neither can saying God is too complex to understand and that it goes beyond space and time.

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:D/peace on all

it would be irrational to believe that a complex system would be created by random chance. it's like a passenger jet being created after a cyclone passes over a garbage dump.

 

Evolution is bit by bit, not sudden.

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Salam,

Oh but there exists no fallacy, you see. :D

 

What we normally refer to as "God" is a transcendent reality above and beyond the limitations of space and time. Therefore, the concept of a beginning does not apply to the First Principle (i.e God). I understand this is especially difficult for many of us to envision, however we must refrain from the attempt. We are beings, and consequently we are subject to time and space in the realm of creation. God the infinite on the other hand could never have been created since the process of a creation requires both time and space to occur. Whether or not you wish to call this "reality" a "being" or a "deity" is entirely a personal matter.

 

Logical fallacy of special pleading. Research it. Write it down a million times, and don't make the same mistake again.

 

The mistake you make is excluding god from the rules of physics, nature and existence without establishing a logical reason to do so.

 

God" is a transcendent reality above and beyond the limitations of space and time.
You'd have to prove this first with logical reasoning before you can continue with that theory of yours. Edited by 3dshocker

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