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Please tell me that I am somehow grossly misenterpreting these:

 

Book 38, Number 4348:

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:

 

A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.

 

He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

 

He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

 

Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.

 

 

Narrated AbuzZinad:

 

the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) cut off (the hands and feet of) those who had stolen his camels and he had their eyes put out by fire (heated nails),

 

 

 

Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi:

 

I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.

 

 

 

Narrated AbuBakrah:

 

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) had a woman stoned and a pit was dug up to her breasts.

 

 

 

Narrated Anas:

 

The Prophet cut off the hands and feet of the men belonging to the tribe of 'Uraina and did not cauterise (their bleeding limbs) till they died.

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PropellerAds

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The ones about the hands and feet are filthy filthy lies. I dunno what the hell the first one meant, and I dunno bout the captives one.

 

:D

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:D

 

Please tell me that I am somehow grossly misenterpreting these:

:D

 

Bro Pete...can you tell us which source you quoted the hadith from?

 

:D

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Could you please site the reference book of these ahadith? It would then be much easier to check their authenticity.

 

:D

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(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/038.sat.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...ud/038.sat.html[/url]

 

Partial Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 38:

Prescribed Punishments (Kitab Al-Hudud)

Edited by Pete

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The Islamic punishment for stealing is to cut the hands off and for adultery, is to stone to death. They act as a deterrant.

 

There was one case where a woman came to Prophet Muhammad (saw) and requsted that the punishent be carried out on her, she persisted many times until she got her way.

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The Islamic punishment for stealing is to cut the hands off and for adultery, is to stone to death. They act as a deterrant.

 

There was one case where a woman came to Prophet Muhammad (saw) and requsted that the punishent be carried out on her, she persisted many times until she got her way.

 

:D

 

 

Just because she asked for it doesn't actually mean that it was approptriate. What about forgiveness?

 

John 8:7. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. In John 8:3-11, Jesus saves the woman taken in adultery from a stoning. Jesus made those who were ready to kill her look at themselves.

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Just because she asked for it doesn't actually mean that it was approptriate. What about forgiveness?

 

John 8:7. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. In John 8:3-11, Jesus saves the woman taken in adultery from a stoning. Jesus made those who were ready to kill her look at themselves.

 

Anything that is done under Divine Law is appropriate and a must. The NT can not be traced back to Jesus(pbuh),so we are not sure whether or not the verses you referenced were spoken by him.

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Anything that is done under Divine Law is appropriate and a must. The NT can not be traced back to Jesus(pbuh),so we are not sure whether or not the verses you referenced were spoken by him.

 

:D

 

True, the NT cannot be traced directly back to Jesus - but it's still a good message. Just because it isn't traced doesn't mean it's invalid.

 

 

:D

i think you took them hadiths out of context...

 

:D

 

You're right - I probably did. That is what I was hoping. I am not trying to be disingenuous - I hope my other posts can attest to that. However, it seems like a long shot that these actions can be justified.

 

The problem with the deterrent argument is that it avoids means based justice. Sure, it may deter "crime", but that doesn't make it just. For example, if lying were a capitol punishment, then people would lie less. Does this mean that lying should be a capital punishment? No. When we are speaking of the divine, means based justice is the standard.

Edited by Pete

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Peace,

 

Are there any online resources where these verses could be viewed in English, or if such resources exist in Arabic could a speaker look them up and see exactly what the context is?

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:D

 

 

I don't know if there is one in Arabic. However, the English texts can be found here. I already posted them; here they are again.

 

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...ud/038.sat.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...ud/038.sat.html[/url]

 

Partial Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 38:

Prescribed Punishments (Kitab Al-Hudud)

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Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi:

 

I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.

 

this hadith i belive is about a tribe that broke a important treaty and conspired to kill the prophet?! im not exactly sure i read it in the biography of the prophet..

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Someone asked about forgiveness...Let's look at the "eye for an eye" dictate...yes the punishment for murder could be to take the life of the murderer, and the punishment for the one who steals could be to cut off his hands, but forgiveness is still definitely possible!!

 

We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers. [Qur'aan, Surat al-Ma'eda, Verse 45]

 

Also, people see this command of "an eye for an eye" as cruel...but it is justice! Think about it, there are people being murdered and their is no justice for their innocent lives, which are lost at the hands of terrorists...why should there not be justice for them??

 

YET even after all this, forgiveness is still possible! Is there anyone more merciful than Allah???

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Assalamu alaikum, Every action or ruling that RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam took was a direct commandment of Allah and according to the orders of Allah. The Ahadeeth you posted here Br. Pete are sure to have incidents attached to them, I have sent them to The Scholar so he can clarify the conditions in which if at all these actions were take by Rasoolallah Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam.

 

RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam was a soft hearted and compassionate person and forgave people when they hurt his personal self or his family, but we have to understand that when some crime is commited against an individual or concerns a group of people, then it will be that individual's or that group's right to forgive or not, is'nt it??

 

We all know on the day of judgement Allah might forgive our sins that we have committed that are between us and Allah, like not Praying, eating haram etc., but if we hurt or harm, or disgrace another individual then Allah does not take responsibility of forgiveness for that. It will be up to the individual to forgive.

 

Anyways, to think that a certain hadeeth is cruel, specially by Muslims is not right.

 

Assalamu alaikum.

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YET even after all this, forgiveness is still possible! Is there anyone more merciful than Allah???

yea, there is, his name is Ghandi.

 

Anyways, to think that a certain hadeeth is cruel, specially by Muslims is not right.

Yes, it must be wrong to not go with the herd.

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It's ok, Russ, he is entitled to his opinion, although he makes no effort in refuting mine.

 

3dshocker,

 

Of the "fallacies" you'd like us to know, I wonder which one your statement falls under.

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:D

 

this hadith i belive is about a tribe that broke a important treaty and conspired to kill the prophet?! im not exactly sure i read it in the biography of the prophet..

 

Yes, this is the case with that certain tribe. However, while some of the leaders did, I don't think that every boy in the tribe had a hand in it. I mean, I was an adolesant by 6th grade. While I realize that what was done was the tribal custom of the time; it was the perscribed punishment for Arabs breaking a custom. But just because it was common doesn't mean it was right.

 

[at] Haqqul_Yaqeen

 

I know this verse, and I appriciate you bringing it up. However, these hadith show very little mercy. I can't think of an instence where putting hot nails through someones eyes as a punishment is right. Taking a life should not incurr torture and then taking life. Also, stoning for adultery is not life for life, nor is it eye for eye. Adultery does not kill anyone. For theft, a stolen item can be given back. The taking of a hand is permanent.

 

Anyways, to think that a certain hadeeth is cruel, specially by Muslims is not right.

 

Is it not better to identify my problem, and express it to my Muslim brothers and sisters rather than to keep it to myself. Faith should never be blind - ever.

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Faith should never be blind - ever.

Bit of a contradiction there. Faith is blind by nature due to lack of logical reasoning. If you had a logical reason to believe, it wouldn't be faith now would it?

 

Thin ice, 3dshocker. Verrrrry thin ice.

What? Nobody likes Ghandi around here?

 

Of the "fallacies" you'd like us to know, I wonder which one your statement falls under.

 

mods note-please do not insult Allah!

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This is what I base it on. Allah is capable of violent acts. Ghandi was a pacifist. If a man had stolen $5 from Ghandi, Allah would have him burn in hell whereas Ghandi would not wish harm upon him. Clearly Ghandi's more merciful than Allah.

 

lol, Can a human steal something from God? we believe Allah is our creator, and whatever between Allah(swt) and his creations will be forgiven if someone repents sincerely, if you steal $5 from me then Allah(swt) will not forgive until i forgive you. This is indeed a proper justice.

 

:D what a comparison between a creator and His creations..........Allah(swt) and Ghandi...lol

Edited by Risalat

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Bit of a contradiction there. Faith is blind by nature due to lack of logical reasoning. If you had a logical reason to believe, it wouldn't be faith now would it?

 

:D

 

If something is not supported by scientific evidence, it does not nessicarilly mean that it is based on blindness. Atheism isn't supported by scientific evidence either. When speaking of things divine, it is impossible to define it in scientific terms unless it violates other know scientific facts. However, for me to ignore hadiths, despite my values, would be even more blind, as I would be turning a blind eye.

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Anyways, to think that a certain hadeeth is cruel, specially by Muslims is not right.

 

Salam Alaikum! Im a Muslim, and i COMPLETELY disagree with that. Allah created us with brains and morals and instinct etc... You arent supposed to go, oh wait, it says kill children, it must be right! We have such beautiful brains, lets use them for a change. We arent supposed to follow blindly, that makes us as bad as those who follow blindly however happen to go on the 'wrong' path, the only difference you managed to stay on a specfic path due to sheer luck...Ali says: Know Truth and You Will Know It's Owner. Why does everyone do the exact opposite. You see had this hadeeth been in another book, and not sahih, everybody would have gone, well, thats why it doesnt make sense, its because its not saheeh(authenticated), yet because it is one of the 6 Sahah Books, we suddenly accept it as divine script? Make a judgement AND THEN think to yourself, does this agree with logic? common sense? At the end of the day, if Your/My Lord created Islam to contradict the logical mind, then we would all have excuses to disbelief. The very fact that Islam has a conceptual framework that is simply to understand, is a sign of its universal acceptance.

 

Take Care All

 

Peace

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:D

 

If something is not supported by scientific evidence, it does not nessicarilly mean that it is based on blindness. Atheism isn't supported by scientific evidence either. When speaking of things divine, it is impossible to define it in scientific terms unless it violates other know scientific facts. However, for me to ignore hadiths, despite my values, would be even more blind, as I would be turning a blind eye.

what does not being supported by scientific evidence have to do with being based on blindness? Faith simply means that you don't need a logical proof and therein lies the blindness. As for atheism, it is supported by rationalism/logic. When there is lack of logical proof to believe in something, the rational stance is that you do not believe in it. There doesn't seem to be a logical proof of God's existence - check illogicals thread on logical proof of god to see how sad the attempt is - and this is the reason I don't believe in God.

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:D

 

By what you consider to be rational, atheism is not the rational choice - agnosticism is. Atheism is the doctrine or belief that there is no God. There is no evidence that there isn't a God; although I recognize that this is not proof for God.

 

For example, lets say you are standing in front of a door. You don't know what's on the other side of the door, but someone tells you it's a chair. Just because you don't know for a fact that there is a chair on the other side doesn't mean that there isn't a chair there. In otherwords, a lack of logical proof for god does not uphold the viewpoint that there is no God.

 

Futhermore, faith does not imply blindness by definition, as you implied. If this were the case, then there wouldn't be a seperate thing called "blind faith" as opposed to just "faith".

Edited by zabrina

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