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Mehmood

Athiests Must Watch This Video

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Assalamualaikum

 

I have a great passion for Dr Zakir Naik's lectures and this must be watched by all Athiests.

 

 

w/s :D

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If muslims had told the world of all this so called scientific knowledge in the koran b4 science had descovered it then i would be impressed.

 

But its only know once all this has been discovered do we find muslims reinterpertating the koran to fit in with scientific knowledge.

 

As for dr naik, well some of the gibberish that he comes out with, any non muslim that takes him seriously is only doing so as to be polite.

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I sat through the whole 15 minute video, and I wasn't impressed. Some of what he said seemed clearly erroneous -- the bit about the "barrier" between salt water and fresh water which prevented their mixing doesn't seem to match my experience. In some cases, he seemed to be trying to portray mundane facts as amazing -- certainly any ancient people who observed the phases of the moon, and the lack of phases in the sun, would have concluded that the moon is reflecting sunlight. This might have been more amazing if he'd cited a verse in which the planets were said to be reflecting light as well -- before telescopes were invented, and the phases could be observed on planets, it wouldn't have been so obvious that planets weren't shining with their own light. Water evaporates and rain falls -- does it really require infinite intelligence to put 2 and 2 together?

 

Show me something in the Quran mentioning the moons of Jupiter, or the existence of galaxies and the vast space between them, or the extinct dinosaurs and the reason they were created by a perfect intelligence only to be discarded before the Last Day, and maybe I'll do more than shrug. As it is, there is so much which science has discovered that the Quran is either silent or hopelessly vague on, that trying to prove the book miraculous by treating it as a science text seems like a dead end to me.

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Peace Anon and spamsickle,

 

How could we have interpreted the meanings of those verses at a time when no one, Muslim or non, knew nothing about yet? Even human works, in literature, art, music, etc.. can be appreciated only when we're able to. Its not the author's fault, but rather ours.

 

You should understand that the Quran is not a book of science. We're only trying to help you towards realizing that it is in fact the words of God. This can be proven from many angles. The Quran has far more miracles than just revealing scientific facts centuries before we knew them. You should read for example about how the economic system it directs us to follow is a perfect system no other system can rival, there are too many aspects you can read about to help yourself realize the truth about the Quran and the Islamic way of life.

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Assalamualaikum

 

If muslims had told the world of all this so called scientific knowledge in the koran b4 science had descovered it then i would be impressed.

 

How are we to explain a form of knowledge we dont even understand?

The quran was revealed, as the video explains, 1400 years ago. there was no prevailance of science back then as it is now and society was living in a tribal environment.

 

As for dr naik, well some of the gibberish that he comes out with, any non muslim that takes him seriously is only doing so as to be polite.

 

again displaying yopur ignorence in accepting the truth. No facts or sources to prove your facts whatsoever. Please restrain your gibberish from this forum.

 

the bit about the "barrier" between salt water and fresh water which prevented their mixing doesn't seem to match my experience

 

Scientists have discovered that in the places where two different seas meet, there is a barrier between them. This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has its own temperature, salinity, and density. For example, water in the Mediterranean is warm, more saline, and less dense when compared to water in the Atlantic ocean.

 

 

In some cases, he seemed to be trying to portray mundane facts as amazing -- certainly any ancient people who observed the phases of the moon, and the lack of phases in the sun, would have concluded that the moon is reflecting sunlight

 

May I inform you that our Prophet Muhammad PBUH was illiterate. As well as this, 1400 years ago it was NOT a fact that the moon reflected light or the Earth was a sphere. yes maybe some scholar may have theorised about it but it was not known. All modern day facts coincide with the quran. The famouse scientist aristolte was full of false theories. Yet our illiterate prophet Muhammad PBUH has come up with a book that to this day has not been contradicted by ANY fact.

 

w/s

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Mehmood, apparently the claim that there is a barrier between fresh water and salt water which prevents their mixing is at odds with your experience too, because you've cited as support something about differences between salt water in the Atlantic and salt water in the Mediterranean. Fresh water would be where a river flows into the ocean, and common sense as well as experience will reveal that the fresh water mixes with the salt water at that point. If the Quran actually claims that there is a barrier between salt water and fresh water which prevents their mixing, I believe there is at least one claim in the book which IS contradicted by fact.

 

Anaxagoras, a Greek who lived 1000 years before Muhammed (PBUH) was imprisoned for saying the sun wasn't a god, and the moon reflected the sun's light. He also correctly surmised that lunar eclipses were caused when the earth blocked the sun's light, and that solar eclipses were caused by the moon's blocking it. The fact that the moon reflects the sun's light is obvious to anyone who observes -- when the moon is full, it is rising as the sun sets, so the sun is illuminating the whole side we can see. When the sun and the moon are visible together in the daytime sky, it's obvious that the side of the moon which is illuminated is always that portion of the sphere which is facing the sun. It hardly seems miraculous to me that Muhammad (PBUH) could have noticed this himself, or that someone could have pointed it out to him.

 

Dot, I well understand that the Quran is not a book of science. I don't see evidence of any scientific knowledge that was not generally available when it was composed. There are facts which are known today that were not known at the time -- that light is both a particle and a wave, that there are "invisible" frequencies of electromagnetic radiation, that Saturn has rings and Jupiter, Saturn, and Mars have moons, that dinosaurs roamed the earth for millions of years before they disappeared and man appeared... A single mention of any of these facts would be more amazing than the dozens of references Dr. Zakir Naik provided that water evaporates and rain falls from the sky.

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spamsickle,

 

Please visit this page: (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.Islam-guide(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/ch1-1-e.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.Islam-guide(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/ch1-1-e.htm[/url]

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Assalamualaikum

 

Fresh water would be where a river flows into the ocean, and common sense as well as experience will reveal that the fresh water mixes with the salt water at that point. If the Quran actually claims that there is a barrier between salt water and fresh water which prevents their mixing, I believe there is at least one claim in the book which IS contradicted by fact.

 

At the meetiong point of a river and an ocean, the salty water from the ocean does not transgress to the river. that is the point to be noted and is not common sense nor was it a fact 1400 years ago. The quran does not claim there to be a wall of such that stops the salt, yet it explains that at the point of intersection of the salty ocean water and fresh river, there is no mixture to cause a river to become salty.

 

 

I agree. there have been numerous scientists since the beginning of history who have conducted experiments and formed theories. Yet what proportion of the theories and facts were correct? Were not there many theories that were also completely false? Such as:

1. The Earth is flat

2. the heavier an object the the faster it falls

3. no protoms, electrons, neutrons, quarks etc, only single indivisible atoms.

etc etc etc the list goes on.

 

however amongst such theories, none of these false theories are evident in the quran. Yes there may have been scientists who would have claimed the sun to be the centre of the universe but were they considered reliable? no.

 

So i ask you, although the quran is NOT a book of science. Why is it that there is not one scientific FACT that contradicts the quran.

 

w/s

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Salaams

 

Below is an Old video from a rap icon named Christopher Wallace AKA BIGGY SMALLS.

The MAN Died in year 1997, the video was made way b4 that.

What's my point?

The man mentions the world trade center blowing UP.

How did he know?

Can he claim divinity?

 

Warning: May contain explicit Lyrics ( no seriously)

 

Point:Eyes sees what Mind wants.

 

 

Peace :D

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Assalamualaikum

 

How could you compare a Prophet of the fastest growing religion in the world to a hip hop or rap singer that mentioned an action thats completely out of context to the attacks on the trade centre?

 

In my opinion, completely irrelevant.

 

w/s

Edited by Mehmood

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Peace,

 

Addressed to anybody who believes there is anything remotely miraculous in the Qu'ran, please post (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=35451"]here.[/url]

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"If muslims had told the world of all this so called scientific knowledge in the koran b4 science had descovered it then i would be impressed.

 

 

How are we to explain a form of knowledge we dont even understand?

The quran was revealed, as the video explains, 1400 years ago. there was no prevailance of science back then as it is now and society was living in a tribal environment. "

 

Well ur all claiming it was in the Koran.

 

"As for dr naik, well some of the gibberish that he comes out with, any non muslim that takes him seriously is only doing so as to be polite.

 

 

again displaying yopur ignorence in accepting the truth. No facts or sources to prove your facts whatsoever. Please restrain your gibberish from this forum."

 

Dr Naiks theorys of pigs has been discussed on this forum

 

(www.)"gawaher/index.php?showtopic=33907"]gawaher/index.php?showtopic=33907[/url]

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Haqqul_Yaqeen,

 

Apparently I have not yet earned the right to post links here as you have, so I'm going to have to answer you with a link which is not "clickable", but which you should still be able to get to: dot geocities dotcom / freethoughtmecca /water.html

 

The truth is, the "barrier" between fresh and salt water at the mouth of a river is not absolute. Rather, it is a continuous transition from fresh water to salt water, as your own link makes clear.

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The quran does not claim there to be a wall of such that stops the salt, yet it explains that at the point of intersection of the salty ocean water and fresh river, there is no mixture to cause a river to become salty.

The river doesn't become salty because fresh water is flowing in one direction. In places where the local geography causes a river to run backward when the tide comes in, it is possible for some portion of the river to become inundated with seawater.

 

So i ask you, although the quran is NOT a book of science. Why is it that there is not one scientific FACT that contradicts the quran.

I would argue that there is.

 

71:15-16 "See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another,

And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?"

 

67:5 "And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire."

 

The belief in "seven heavens" is an ancient one, based on the 5 planets which are visible to the naked eye (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn) plus the sun and moon. They are not set one above another. The stars (lamps) are not adornments of the lowest level, shooting stars are not actually stars but meteors, and they do not drive away the "Evil Ones".

 

Muhammed's (PBUH) writings reflect the common superstitions of the time in which he wrote. There is very little science in the book at all, and what there is (the notion that day follows night, rain falls from the sky, and many animals are either male or female) is hardly extraordinary in light of what was known at that time.

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I just watched the first three minutes and he's said that all women should cover up themselves to lower the rape rate. :/

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Salaams

 

How could you compare a Prophet of the fastest growing religion in the world to a hip hop or rap singer that mentioned an action thats completely out of context to the attacks on the trade centre?

I'm not comparing people, I am comparing the art of interpretation.

If barriers between salt can be a scientific phenomena then these rap lyrics can be

a prophecy foretold ( Maybe Biggy Smalls was a Fat angel of some sort :D )

 

I just watched the first three minutes and he's said that all women should cover up themselves to lower the rape rate. :/

You made it further then I did.

I gave up under a minute, strawman champion I tell ya :D

Besides he is no scholar, I personally thought that the man wasa genius back then

bcaz lots apeople hype him up an all. But then came the exposure :D

Peace

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Assalamualaikum

again displaying yopur ignorence in accepting the truth. No facts or sources to prove your facts whatsoever. Please restrain your gibberish from this forum.

 

I would like to quote a verse from the quran.

 

Surathul Baqara Chap.2 V6

 

" As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe."

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" As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe."
And those who embrace faith are sometimes so gullible that they can believe a man has "proven" that a book contains miraculous scientific knowledge by rattling off a dozen references to the fact that rain falls from the sky. When the crowd erupts in an ecstacy of applause over something like that, one suspects they've simply abandoned critical thinking altogether.

 

The fact that rain falls from the sky is, in my opinion, one of the many miracles that confront us every day, and make life such a grand and precious adventure. The fact that a man in the sixth century knew that rail falls from the sky is another mundane miracle in its own way. It's miraculous that a man can know anything at all, can actually observe the universe wheeling about him, and ponder his observations. There are so many books which inspire wonder that I can't bury my head like an ostrich in just one.

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Assalamualaikum

 

There seems to be no point in discussing Dr Zakir Naik or the quran with any of the athiests that have replied. A vast majority have simply expressed their ignorent and biased beliefs to undermine this learned and talented man.

 

You haven't even watched 2 minutes of the speech and you are commenting on it? There is simply no benefit in reading the posts of such baseless posts.

 

As I said before. Refrain from writing 'gibberish' without references. Obviously not many of you even know anything about Dr Zakir or Islam for that matter and require further research before you are compatible to even debate such Islamic issues. :D

 

w/s

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Salaams

You haven't even watched 2 minutes of the speech and you are commenting on it? There is simply no benefit in reading the posts of such baseless posts.

Ok..So I forced myslef to watch the whole thing.

He seem to have an excellent memory though the procesisng capabilities are lacking.

Like I said before a strawman Champ :D , created his own arguments about atheists and then refuted them.

Just with in 1:24 secs he had already done that twice, the rest of Video was no different.

Making Fuzzy matches between Quran and science doesn't earn credibility. The Bible is full of Science too, The backbone of his argument..."We just learned that Now, but Quran had it 1400 years ago"....I must say this then..If Quran had so much science 1400 years ago, and people memorized Quran, then why haven't muslim scientists discovered back then what science did recently? What took so long if the answer was right in front?

Seems as if Science is being used to Guage Quran, Why not use Quran to guage science?

I would really like to know how Mr. Naik would hold up a live debate against anyone with a shred of sense.

peace

Edited by llogical

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Assalamualaikum

 

There seems to be no point in discussing Dr Zakir Naik or the quran with any of the athiests that have replied.

 

If you knew this, then why did you post his lecture up and say "ATHEISTS MUST SEE THIS" ?

 

Logically speaking, why would atheists even heard of him ? :D

 

A vast majority have simply expressed their ignorent and biased beliefs to undermine this learned and talented man.

 

Aren't you just doing the same, matter of perspective isn't it.

 

You haven't even watched 2 minutes of the speech and you are commenting on it? There is simply no benefit in reading the posts of such baseless posts.

 

You can still make a judgement about his credibliity though in the first 30 seconds. Arguing about a man, teasing a muslim or a non-muslim.

Depends on the individual really. People generally do make fun of something absurd or just plain illogical though.

I think I have had just about enough of mulsims claiming hijab/nikab will reduce assault. I have debunked this fallacy many times. See other posts by me.

 

As I said before. Refrain from writing 'gibberish' without references. Obviously not many of you even know anything about Dr Zakir or Islam for that matter and require further research before you are compatible to even debate such Islamic issues. :D

 

Seems you are the one writing gibberish. Whereas atheists try to think things through logically and give reasons why such reasoning is irrational. Faith based reasoning ultimately comes down to comments like. You can't understand it, your biased. :D

 

Faith by definition has no reasoning. It comes down to a leap of faith. Sometimes people confuse this with an obvious amount of evidence pointing to the contrary of your argument, but you just say god knows best. :D

 

All of the knowledge in the koran and traditions was known to other people of the time. I mean the Greeks knew the circumference of the earth around 500 B.C.E and that planets are in orbit, etc...

Muhumud obviously incorporated other idea's around him. He even incorporated the kabaa, the circling of the kabaa, the biblical prophets (very vaguely and inaccurately, underminded others beliefs), ritual prayer, fasting, washing, belief of pigs (acient jewish custom), the belief in jinns (which were a pagan belief of the time), the belief in the seven heavens, the belief in the angels recording deeds (acient pagan belief), etc...

The things he didn't incorporate was knowledge, free thinking and the pursuit of truth (through open discussion of idea's and allow many perspectives on issues).

He brought intolerant holy law. Which every muslim doesn't agree wholely upon, and every free nation in the world absolutely dreads.

 

Example:

To prove that Islam is not just another cult. I should be able to freely express my feelings and my conclusions. But I will probably be kicked off the forum yet again. True sign of a cult (suppression of any negative views or ideas that may influence anyone from not adhering to the cult).

 

Logically speaking, if you had nothing to fear or hide and were confident in your belief. Why would you try to stop someone from saying something that may be very true.

 

Peace to all, may you find in your hearts what you truly desire to complete you and find meaning in your life and is in the best interests of humanity. Treat others as you would like to be treated no matter what view that individual may have toward religious or political issues.

 

Real

 

Edited by Real Truth Seeker

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There seems to be no point in discussing Dr Zakir Naik or the quran with any of the athiests that have replied. A vast majority have simply expressed their ignorent and biased beliefs to undermine this learned and talented man.
I watched the whole video, and provided evidence to support my ignorant and biased beliefs. If you choose not to address the issues I raised, I can't force you, but I'll certainly be less inclined to invest the time the next time you decide to challenge atheists.

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Assalamualaikum -(This means "May the peace mercy and blessings of almighty Allah swt be upon you all")

 

Please consider what I say with an open mind. Do not have negative connotations to what I will say just because I endorse what Dr Zakir Naik says and you dont. Lets start on even grounds.

 

 

If you knew this, then why did you post his lecture up and say "ATHEISTS MUST SEE THIS" ?

 

Logically speaking, why would atheists even heard of him ?

 

Firstly, i expected the people to reply to have watched the whole speech. No real point on commenting on a video if you haven't watched it right?

 

secondly, many of the Athiests that have replied have commented on Dr Zakir Naik himself and have undermined the man's credibility without justification. As you may have seen in the video, practically EVERYTHING that Dr Zakir said had a reference or a source. Apart from the analogies he used, everything else was either quoted from the quran, bible or other text. Hence, when many people who have replied call Dr Zakir stupid or and idiot without justifying why call for a baeseless post with no intention but to create doubt in the minds of people of his validity.

 

Aren't you just doing the same, matter of perspective isn't it

 

Not really. I have personally watched many of his lectures and have researched his biography. go to aswatalislam(contact admin if its a beneficial link) for more of his free lectures. watch a few and research about him and what he says. test his validity in quotation and interpretattion and you will find he is very accurate in what he says.

 

I think I have had just about enough of mulsims claiming hijab/nikab will reduce assault. I have debunked this fallacy many times. See other posts by me.

 

Firstly, did you hear his stats regarding the rape rate. if the punishment, which you fail to consider, is implemented will THAT not decrease the level of crime? I urge you to watch a few more mins of it. Secondly wearing hijab is not only Islamic it should be undetaken by christians or jews. For Christians i refer to 1st Chorinthians chapter 11 verses 5 or 6. it says that for the woman that does not cover her head, you should shave off her head.

 

Also think of it logically as you so like to do. Women have today become objects of advertisement. why include a woman in the ad for a car? why have scantily dressed women play on a bed when displaying the comforts of a bed on a game show?(im referring to the 'Price is Right' of Australia-most aussies will know what i mean). wearing Islamic hijab maintains a womans modesty and keeps the focus on her head, her intelligence and her skills. isnt discrimination in the workplace depending upon employers hiring females on the basis of how attractive they are an issue? Women are considered very special in Islam, much more valuable than diamonds or gold which are themselves caged from society in safes.

 

Seems you are the one writing gibberish. Whereas atheists try to think things through logically and give reasons why such reasoning is irrational. Faith based reasoning ultimately comes down to comments like. You can't understand it, your biased.

 

OK. Again you fail to fully justify your statements.

 

I refer to when many of the repliers have said the water cycle is an easy consept where water goes up then down. the water cycle is in fact a complex system of natworks integrating to allow for the supply of water for mankind. the water cycle is a vital asset to mankinds existence. the water cycle, i dont want to explain it here but research yourself by all means, was not understood at all 1400 years ago.

 

Someone commented on how what was revealed to be scientific was either mundane or obvious or reveleaed by other scientists.

 

Firstly, the fact that all organisms are comprised of water was not known 1400 years ago. the famous scientist Aristolte even rejected the existence of particles and claimed matter consisted of different proportions of 4 elements- earth water air and fire. this view was considered correct for over 2000 years!!!

 

lastly, some of the other miraculous mentions of planets in orbit and the spherical nature of the Earth WAS NOT A FACT 1400 years ago. Why didnt the prophet Muhammad PBUH say the Earth was flat,?why did he not say that the moon has its own light? why did he say that the heavens were once one and they have been blown to asunder? Why did he prohibit the eating of pork? Did you know that if pork is not cooked properly, ther are worms in the animal which afetr consuption will enter the human body. if there was a worms egg in the meat and you eat it, it can enter the blood stream which may enter the brain. the worm can live in your brain and inevitably cause death.

 

OK? Is that logical for you?

 

the main point I am trying to make is why did the prophet Muhammad PBUH not talk about false theories which have been PROVEN wrong today?

 

As for you comment on how there are practices of Islam similar to jewish customs we know and aknowledge that. we muslims consider Moses and Jesus PBUThem to be true PROPHETS of almighty Allah swt and their message was also Islamic. However, their message was only for a certain time period and group of people. Up until the time of Muhammad PBUH the message of Allah swt was perfected in that everything delivered by Muhammad was for ALL of mankind. hence, the Jews not eating pork, the jews being circumcised, the Christians believing (or they claim to) in one God are all also incorporated in Islam.

Hence practices also being carried out by Jews or Christians is accepted.

 

I hope i answered your questions

 

May the peace mercy and blessings of almighty Allah swt be upon you all

Assalamualaikum

Edited by Mehmood

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Mehmood, apparently the claim that there is a barrier between fresh water and salt water which prevents their mixing is at odds with your experience too, because you've cited as support something about differences between salt water in the Atlantic and salt water in the Mediterranean. Fresh water would be where a river flows into the ocean, and common sense as well as experience will reveal that the fresh water mixes with the salt water at that point. If the Quran actually claims that there is a barrier between salt water and fresh water which prevents their mixing, I believe there is at least one claim in the book which IS contradicted by fact.

:D

Scientifically speaking (I did an entire semester on ecology) fresh and salt water do not mix in an estuary.

So what the quran says in correct.

When fresh water meets the ocean, the fresh water is less dense then the slat water and tends to stay at the top and salt water stays at he bottom because it more dense. The salt from the salt water also does not diffuse to the fresh water so the top layer stays fresh and the bottom layer stays salty.

 

 

Anaxagoras, a Greek who lived 1000 years before Muhammed (PBUH) was imprisoned for saying the sun wasn't a god, and the moon reflected the sun's light. He also correctly surmised that lunar eclipses were caused when the earth blocked the sun's light, and that solar eclipses were caused by the moon's blocking it.

 

 

Anaxagoras also described the sun as "a mass of blazing metal, larger than the Peloponnese (a Greek Island)"

Now if you think that Muhammad (PBUH) ripped off Anaxagoras then how come that bit was also not included?

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Anaxagoras"]Source[/url]

 

 

The fact that the moon reflects the sun's light is obvious to anyone who observes -- when the moon is full, it is rising as the sun sets, so the sun is illuminating the whole side we can see. When the sun and the moon are visible together in the daytime sky, it's obvious that the side of the moon which is illuminated is always that portion of the sphere which is facing the sun. It hardly seems miraculous to me that Muhammad (PBUH) could have noticed this himself, or that someone could have pointed it out to him.

 

 

Well it must of not been that obvious because for a while it was thought that the moon and the other planets emitted their own light.

Hind sight it 20/20

you cannot say something was obvious a thousand years later.

 

To me the existence of atoms are obvious but thousands of years ago or even two hundred years ago it was not.

 

 

 

The bottom line is this

If you want the quran to tell you the secrets of this universe then you are going to be disappointed.

The quran instead gives us hints at the nature of the universe and so far all those hints have not been proven wrong in the slightest.

And that is why we claim it is scientifically miraculous.

Not because it gave us e=mc^2, but because it hinted that atoms existed and it is our job to find them.

Edited by Omar786

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Assalamualaikum

 

As for not replying earlier, i have been away for the past week so please refer to my above post for my response.

 

w/s

Edited by Mehmood

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