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Watch Out For Ex-muslim "testimonials"

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So I'm sure some of you have run across the many Ex-Muslim "Testimonials", in the form of text on a website - or as I just saw a couple days ago, some professional quality videos on YouTube. After reading and hearing them, I have been able to categorize the majority of them into two categories. There is also a third category - that of Muslim conversions to Christianity due to Christian missionary efforts in Africa and Indonesia. But for this third category, I think it is quite obvious that these people who are poor and uneducated simply become unknowing victims of bribes in the form of food & money.

 

Category One - Left Islam Due to Lack of Knowledge or Emotional Trauma

 

Most conversions of educated people out of Islam fall into this category. These people leave Islam for two main reasons.

 

The first reason is that they were 2nd-generation immigrants to a country like the US. Their parents grew up in a Muslim country and were exposed to basic Islamic practices and cultural norms, and so they were not taught Islam at home. When they came to the US, they don't realize that their kids are growing up in a completely different culture and have no idea what Islam is. As the kids grow older, and they don't act like Muslims, their parents try to force them to do it. But of course, this only further alienates the kids because the kids have no idea why their parents want them to do such "absurd" things like prayer, fasting, or hijab. Eventually, they end up leaving Islam and their parents' home. This is sometimes also coupled with emotional trauma - their parents may get so distraught at their repeated failure to convince their son or daughter that Islam is right, that they may do something drastic. In extreme cases, this can result in violence. Of course, these emotional traumas only compound the problem, and the kid now has an impression of Islam as a barbaric and ancient religion with which they will have nothing to do.

 

The second reason is that their own families were not true Muslims. They may have abused their kids, or had other family problems. Then when the kids travel to 1st world countries, usually to get an education, they realize they don't have to live in the miserable way their parents and families made them. So in throwing off the shackles of an abusive family, they reject Islam as well. Usually such people have extreme anger towards anything Islam or Muslim, and may resort to lashing out against Islam in the media. People like Ayaan Hirsi Ali come to mind.

 

Category Two - Converted to Christianity Because of a Lack of Love in Islam

 

I came across these on YouTube. They claim that they were completely devout Muslims before, but then they discovered the Love of Jesus, usually accompanied by some visions, and finally decided to become Christian. Let's try and address some of the points they brought up against Islam.

 

The Bible always talks of the Love of God, but the Quran never does that.

Every chapter of the Qur'an (except one) begins with the words "In the name of God, the Most Merciful, the Most Gracious". Furthermore, the Qur'an often refers to the other compassionate attributes of God - The Sustainer, The Oft-Forgiving, etc. What could be a more direct declaration of the Love of God than this? "Love" is a generic word - it can mean many things. But the Qur'an specifies exactly what kind of Love God gives to us. Ar-Rahman - The Most Merciful. This is the kind of mercy that you would have on an innocent child, the kind of mercy you would show to someone in a desparate situation. It is an unconditional Mercy. Ar-Raheem - The Most Gracious. This is the Grace or the Leniency that we may show to someone who has wronged us. This is the Mercy that is given to someone on account of a specific thing. The Qur'an clearly states that God's Love has both an unconditional and all-encompassing aspect, as well as a situation-specific aspect to it. Take into account then Al-Ghafoor - The Oft-Forgiving. God's forgiveness is not like the forgiveness we humans give to each other. No, we may forgive each other, but we never forget. Even if we forgive, we may hold a grudge, even if it's minute, but we remember what the other person did to us emotionally. On the other hand, God forgives, forgets, and erases. It is like it never happened. On top of that - he turns our sins into good deeds! This isn't like the God of Christianity who supposedly sacrificed a poor man so he could forgive the sins of mankind. On top of this we have hundreds of Hadith of Rasulullah (SAWS) that speak of the kindness of God. Here is an (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yettasawwuf(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/writings/sermons/mercy_Allah.htm"]excellent[/url] link that illustrates the mercy of God. There are numerous more, for example, the one which states even if the sins of a man were as much as the foam on the ocean, God would still forgive him.

 

The God of Christianity is so much more personal than the God of Islam.

Just read the first few pages of the Qur'an! It speaks directly to us. There are so many verse of the Qur'an that just seem to leap out at you, as if you were holding a conversation with God. In Islam, we can pray directly to God, in any way or form, in any condition or situation - even if we can't speak and it's just our thoughts, because God is the All-Knowing Hearer (As-Samee` ul `Aleem, as the Qur'an so eloquently puts it). In Islam, God is with us everywhere we go, whatever we do. He knows more about us than we know ourselves, He is closer to us than our jugular vein, and he knows what is in the deepest depths of our chests (as the Qur'an says). What could be more personal than this? Yes, we can't see him, or hear him, or touch him, or smell him, or taste him. But who would want to worship a God that he could see or touch or hear?! After all that would mean God is like his Creation, and not the Creator! That's what idols and saints are - false gods that you can see and hear and touch. And they are false precisely because you can see them, or hear them, or touch them. It means they were made up of the same physical material that makes your body up, or rocks up. Such material objects do not deserve our worship, our repentance, or our prayers, because they are also mere Creations. Islam tells us to skip all the Creations and go direct to the Creator. We have a direct line to our Creator, the Most Merciful, the Most Gracious, the Oft Forgiving - and it's there 24/7.

 

I saw Jesus and he called out to me.

Usually when the people claim this, they are in an extremely emotional circumstance, or it is in a dream. Remember, emotions can be easily manipulated. And evil doers from among both humans and the jinns are masters of deception. They prey on our emotional vulnerabilities and use every opportunity to misguide when we let down our guard even slightly. Emotions are our weakness if we don't protect them with logic. Logic dictates we can't see our Creator! As I explained above, if we could see and hear and touch our Creator, he would be as material as we are, and hence, not really a creator. And again, in the case of dreams - this is the special abode of evil jinns. They infiltrate our dreams, take on the forms of people we know, or forms that scare us, or forms that please us. Again, they take advantage in our dreams of whatever might have been worrying us while we were awake. What is the surest way to distinguish the deceptions from the truth? The truth is both logical and emotionally appealing. Falsehood disguised as truth is usually very emotionally appealing - but does not make any logical sense.

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Great post, brother. I personally try to avoid stories of apostates as they are very demoralizing and sad. To know that someone held Islam within his or her grasp and simply let it go...they are the most unfortunate of people.

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Yes, they can indeed be extremely demoralizing. What you have to remember though (and I remind myself of this constantly) is that the truth is appealing to both our rationale (logic) and our emotions. And really, it's as simple as that.

 

I got extremely demoralized at one point because I was letting myself be bombarded with anti-Islam content from all fronts. I was visiting websites that had claims of unspeakable Muslim atrocities committed during the age of the caliphates/empires. I was reading about people, including some scholars, who left Islam. I was constantly bombarded with one setback after another in the Muslim world and in Pakistan in the so-called "war on terror". I was reading about proofs against God. I was wondering why Islam has to be right, why a God at all?

 

That doubt and fear that grew and grew, I finally realized it was an emotional reaction. After calming down and analyzing my emotions and the reasons for having these doubts, I found that there was no real substantive reason behind it - I was just exasperated.

 

So what I've come to realize is this: the truth is appealing, the truth is easy, and the truth is rational.

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Subhaan Allaah brother. An excellent post this is. It needs to be talked about and I wish something could be done about those falling in the first category. May Allah guide them back. Ameen

 

Mostly all such incidences are based on personal experiences with other Muslims, and some people have gone through a lot of mess.. Only not all of them attribute this to their religion rather they know who is at fault behind.. It's so sad to see this happening. The main cause is lack of knowledge about Islam.

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Christian missionaries have used slanders, deceptions, deceits, money,food, handsome men, beautiful women etc to trick ignorant Muslims into converting to Christianity.

 

Here is a true story told by an ex-Christian missionary who reverts to Islam about how Christian missionaries trick a Muslim woman into converting to Christianity:

 

A handsome Christian man said to a Muslim woman that he was very interested to know Islam so the woman was so happy to teach him about Islam. Next, she taught him about Islam and their relationship become closer and closer that they became a pair of lovers and the Christian man took advantage of her by impregnating her. Then, the man tricked the woman into following him to the church by saying that she was pregnant so her family and villagers would surely taunt, ridicule, beat and kill her so she must follow him to the church for the church would protect her and accept her baby as a holy baby. Finally, the woman became so afraid that she followed him to the church and converted to Christianity due to the Christian coercion and deception.

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Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion. Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance." Wert thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither Protector nor helper against Allah. The Holy Quran 2:120

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The Bible always talks of the Love of God, but the Quran never does that.

Every chapter of the Qur'an (except one) begins with the words "In the name of God, the Most Merciful, the Most Gracious". Furthermore, the Qur'an often refers to the other compassionate attributes of God - The Sustainer, The Oft-Forgiving, etc. What could be a more direct declaration of the Love of God than this? "Love" is a generic word - it can mean many things. But the Qur'an specifies exactly what kind of Love God gives to us. Ar-Rahman - The Most Merciful. This is the kind of mercy that you would have on an innocent child, the kind of mercy you would show to someone in a desparate situation. It is an unconditional Mercy. Ar-Raheem - The Most Gracious. This is the Grace or the Leniency that we may show to someone who has wronged us. This is the Mercy that is given to someone on account of a specific thing. The Qur'an clearly states that God's Love has both an unconditional and all-encompassing aspect, as well as a situation-specific aspect to it. Take into account then Al-Ghafoor - The Oft-Forgiving. God's forgiveness is not like the forgiveness we humans give to each other. No, we may forgive each other, but we never forget. Even if we forgive, we may hold a grudge, even if it's minute, but we remember what the other person did to us emotionally. On the other hand, God forgives, forgets, and erases. It is like it never happened. On top of that - he turns our sins into good deeds! This isn't like the God of Christianity who supposedly sacrificed a poor man so he could forgive the sins of mankind. On top of this we have hundreds of Hadith of Rasulullah (SAWS) that speak of the kindness of God. Here is an excellent link that illustrates the mercy of God. There are numerous more, for example, the one which states even if the sins of a man were as much as the foam on the ocean, God would still forgive him.

 

I have a Qur'an at home and I must say, it is a very incomprehencible book. It jumps from one thing to another and constantly talks about hellfire, pain and punishment, which makes it hard to see how Allah is "most merciful, most gracious". It is a very unpleasant book to read and I literally get tired of reading it. Allah is distant and can't be approached. He is "there" and we are "here". There are numerous inconsistencies with world history, faults about facts, misunderstandings of what people believe and impossible conversations between and statements of characters. I see nothing that links the Qur'an with the Bible. The names of Biblical characters may be in it, but the stories are completely different. Which makes one source untrustworthy. Since the Bible was finished 500 years before the Qur'an, it is pretty obvious which book is authentic and which is not.

 

About the innocent man. The man put down His own life and took it back. In addition, since God teaches us that the soul that sins must die, this means sin equals death. A ransom has to be paid for the sin that is commited. That is law! If you have a judge that upholds the law firmly without deviating from it, that judge is righteous. If you have a judge that doesn't uphold the law, that judge is crooked. God must uphold His law, because if He deviates from it, He is crooked. If God would just pardon every sin, without it having no consequences for the perpetrator, there would be total anarchy. Imagine a judge that would aquit everyone who says "I'm sorry". That would be ridiculous. And since us paying for our own sins means that we would be seperated from God eternally, He gave His Son to pay that price for us. Just as Adam's sin costed every human being his place in paradise, so also through Gods Son (the Second Adam) will everyone re-enter Gods paradise. But only THROUGH the Son.

 

The God of Christianity is so much more personal than the God of Islam.

Just read the first few pages of the Qur'an! It speaks directly to us. There are so many verse of the Qur'an that just seem to leap out at you, as if you were holding a conversation with God. In Islam, we can pray directly to God, in any way or form, in any condition or situation - even if we can't speak and it's just our thoughts, because God is the All-Knowing Hearer (As-Samee` ul `Aleem, as the Qur'an so eloquently puts it). In Islam, God is with us everywhere we go, whatever we do. He knows more about us than we know ourselves, He is closer to us than our jugular vein, and he knows what is in the deepest depths of our chests (as the Qur'an says). What could be more personal than this? Yes, we can't see him, or hear him, or touch him, or smell him, or taste him. But who would want to worship a God that he could see or touch or hear?! After all that would mean God is like his Creation, and not the Creator! That's what idols and saints are - false gods that you can see and hear and touch. And they are false precisely because you can see them, or hear them, or touch them. It means they were made up of the same physical material that makes your body up, or rocks up. Such material objects do not deserve our worship, our repentance, or our prayers, because they are also mere Creations. Islam tells us to skip all the Creations and go direct to the Creator. We have a direct line to our Creator, the Most Merciful, the Most Gracious, the Oft Forgiving - and it's there 24/7.

 

No you have to pray in a certain way and to a certain direction in a certain state. In addition, before you pray you have to perform certain rituals or else Allah will not hear you, according to book of Wudu of Al-Bukhari. Christians don't have that problem.

 

 

Nakdimon

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If you actually pay attention when reading the Quran, you will see that whenever God talks about punishment, he also mentions his mercy and his reward. He always reassures us with these words. Also, you try and compare the Quran directly to the Bible and this is not fair. The Quran is the literal word of God from one man. But the Bible is a compilation of different books, over a period of many years, from various authors, using various styles of writing. The Quran is written not as a narrative or as a book. In fact, the Quran is NOT a book. While "Bible" means "book", "Quran" means "recitation". It is called the recitation because it is a form of rhyme, prose, and poetry. You could compare the Quran to perhaps some of the hymns that are sung from the Bible. The rest of the Bible though, you should probably compare to the Hadiths. The Hadiths are the narrations of what the Prophet said and did. If you want to know even more about the Mercy of God, just look to the Hadiths.

 

Also, you talk about God not breaking his "law" if he wants to be fair. In Islam, there are two types of sins (transgressions). Sins against God, and sins against people. God is able to forgive sins against him either by the person asking forgiveness for them, or out of his own mercy. Since these are sins against God, God has the right to forgive them if he wants to. Sins against people have to be forgiven by the people who were wronged. If a person robbed another person, he must seek the forgiveness of that person, and then the forgiveness of God. If the victim forgives him, so will God. Justice is that the person against whom the sin was committed has the right to forgive the criminal. Therefore, God has the right to forgive sins that are against God, and a person has the right to forgive sins that are against himself. This is the law of God, and it is completely fair, and nobody needs to die for anyone's sins to be forgiven. All that is required is that person wronged forgive the wrongdoer.

 

Regarding prayer, if you had done just a little bit of research, you would know that there are two types of prayer in Islam. The word prayer is usually used for the ritual prayer, or salat (or prayer) in Islam. This is the 5 times daily prayer, and it is used to refresh and keep our spiritual connection to God. The other type of prayer is called dua (translated into English as supplication). This is more like prayer in Christianity. Supplication means when you just ask God for something. It has no requirements, it can be used anywhere, anytime, anyhow, no priest, church, or altar required.

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I have a Qur'an at home and I must say, it is a very incomprehencible book.

 

The Qur'an is very comprehensible for those who learn it.

 

It jumps from one thing to another

 

The Qur'an is very organized and every word written in it is relevant to the rest revealed at the same time.

 

and constantly talks about hellfire, pain and punishment, which makes it hard to see how Allah is "most merciful, most gracious".

 

The Qur'an speaks of lots of other subjects. Judging purely based on all of your posts about Islam, the prophet Muhammad, and the Qur'an, I have no doubt that you're looking at it with a very biased perspective.

 

It is a very unpleasant book to read and I literally get tired of reading it.

 

Opinion. When do we get to see the facts?

 

If you have any legitimate issues with the Qur'an, please bring them up. Either of us can start a topic for such a discussion. I have no interest in comparing the Qur'an and the Bible (since it's the tired old argument of "my book is better than yours!"), but I'm very interested in disproving allegations against the Qur'an.

 

No you have to pray in a certain way and to a certain direction in a certain state. In addition, before you pray you have to perform certain rituals or else Allah will not hear you, according to book of Wudu of Al-Bukhari. Christians don't have that problem.

 

You are confusing salaat (five daily prayers which are an obligation, just as is fasting, charity, and performing Hajj) with dhikr (remembrance of Allah), du'a (invocation) and repentence.

 

As Allah says in the Qur'an:

 

And when My servants ask you (O Muhammad concerning Me, then answer them), I am indeed near. I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me. So let them obey Me and believe in Me, so that they may be led aright. [2:186]

 

If God would just pardon every sin, without it having no consequences for the perpetrator, there would be total anarchy. Imagine a judge that would aquit everyone who says "I'm sorry". That would be ridiculous. And since us paying for our own sins means that we would be seperated from God eternally, He gave His Son to pay that price for us.

 

Just how many judges would get ahold of a criminal, refuse to accept an apology, and then allow the blood of an innocent man to be used as ransom for the wrongdoings of the criminal?

 

Let's not compare God to an ordinary judge.

 

Salam.

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If you actually pay attention when reading the Quran, you will see that whenever God talks about punishment, he also mentions his mercy and his reward. He always reassures us with these words. Also, you try and compare the Quran directly to the Bible and this is not fair. The Quran is the literal word of God from one man. But the Bible is a compilation of different books, over a period of many years, from various authors, using various styles of writing. The Quran is written not as a narrative or as a book. In fact, the Quran is NOT a book. While "Bible" means "book", "Quran" means "recitation". It is called the recitation because it is a form of rhyme, prose, and poetry. You could compare the Quran to perhaps some of the hymns that are sung from the Bible. The rest of the Bible though, you should probably compare to the Hadiths. The Hadiths are the narrations of what the Prophet said and did. If you want to know even more about the Mercy of God, just look to the Hadiths.

 

If the Qur'an is not a book, then why does Allah speak about the Qur'an being a book all the time? And if the Qur'an wasn't compiled in to a book during Muhammads life but by Bakr or Uttman, then, again, why does Allah speak about the Qur'an being a book all the time?

 

Also, you talk about God not breaking his "law" if he wants to be fair. In Islam, there are two types of sins (transgressions). Sins against God, and sins against people. God is able to forgive sins against him either by the person asking forgiveness for them, or out of his own mercy. Since these are sins against God, God has the right to forgive them if he wants to. Sins against people have to be forgiven by the people who were wronged. If a person robbed another person, he must seek the forgiveness of that person, and then the forgiveness of God. If the victim forgives him, so will God. Justice is that the person against whom the sin was committed has the right to forgive the criminal. Therefore, God has the right to forgive sins that are against God, and a person has the right to forgive sins that are against himself. This is the law of God, and it is completely fair, and nobody needs to die for anyone's sins to be forgiven. All that is required is that person wronged forgive the wrongdoer.

 

Nah, if you have a law that requires jail for a certain type of offense, then you can't let someone walk who says "I'm sorry". Any judge that does that is a perverter of justice and therefore can't be a righteous judge. Likewise, the Torah requires a life without blemish for sin. That's why the sacrifices all had to be without blemish or defect. The innocent lamb reminded the sinner of the grievous mistake he made, so that he would learn from his mistake and refrain from erring again.

 

Regarding prayer, if you had done just a little bit of research, you would know that there are two types of prayer in Islam. The word prayer is usually used for the ritual prayer, or salat (or prayer) in Islam. This is the 5 times daily prayer, and it is used to refresh and keep our spiritual connection to God. The other type of prayer is called dua (translated into English as supplication). This is more like prayer in Christianity. Supplication means when you just ask God for something. It has no requirements, it can be used anywhere, anytime, anyhow, no priest, church, or altar required.

 

 

Yep! And since it is the salaat that is obligatory in Islam, my point is established.

 

Nakdimon

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The Qur'an is very comprehensible for those who learn it.

The Qur'an is very organized and every word written in it is relevant to the rest revealed at the same time.

 

I would very much disagree. Take for instance Surah 33. Someone that knows the context of that revelation knows that there are different situations in the life of Muhammad that are contained in the Surah. It starts off with the situation of Zaynab, his daughter-in-law, and Allah addresses the relations between people in general. Then it talks about a covenant with the prophets out of the blue and talks about the punishment of the infidels. (verse 7+8) Suddenly just like that we find ourselves in the battle of Uhud and then all of a sudden from verse 28 we find Allah talking about Muhammads wives and their behaviour and the marital relations of other muslims in general. Then, again, out of the blue, from verse 63, Allah starts talking about people asking Muhammad about the Hour and then Allah starts to threaten disbelievers with painful torments. How is this all in relation to one another? I don't see that, so please explain how we are to view this all in the context.

 

 

The Qur'an speaks of lots of other subjects. Judging purely based on all of your posts about Islam, the prophet Muhammad, and the Qur'an, I have no doubt that you're looking at it with a very biased perspective.

 

I have been studying Islam very hard and am more aquainted with Islamic sources then most muslims. So I know what I say when I say it. I have studied the pros and studied the cons and drew my conclusion.

 

I know the Qur'an speaks about other things as well, but there is an overemphasis on hell, torment and punishment. And when you have laws that say that speaking loudly in Muhammads presence nullifies good deeds, that is awfully convenient for the only person that supposedly received these words as divine revelation, don't you think? When people don't want to go out dor jihad, they are threatened with hellfire. When people annoy Muhammad, they are threatened with torment. When people question his claims, they are threatened with a painful doom. When people ask him questions, they are threatened with a humiliation in the hereafter. And the list goes on. Sometimes it even makes no sense in the context it's written in, as shown above. Why is that?

 

Opinion. When do we get to see the facts?

 

Well, I agree, that's just my opinion. But I can ask you that question also, can't I? You claim the Qur'an is comprehensible and very organized. Where is your proof? I have given you my proof above.

 

If you have any legitimate issues with the Qur'an, please bring them up. Either of us can start a topic for such a discussion. I have no interest in comparing the Qur'an and the Bible (since it's the tired old argument of "my book is better than yours!"), but I'm very interested in disproving allegations against the Qur'an.

 

Challenge excepted. I am not interested in compairing books either. So let's discuss the Qur'an.

 

Just how many judges would get ahold of a criminal, refuse to accept an apology, and then allow the blood of an innocent man to be used as ransom for the wrongdoings of the criminal?

 

Let's not compare God to an ordinary judge.

 

Salam.

 

Well, I'm not comparing Yahweh to ordinary judges. I'm not talking about ordinary laws either. I'm talking about Yahweh's Law, the Torah. And if we are going to discuss Yahweh's standards, then we have to take the standards of the Torah. The Torah demands a life for a life since sin brings about death. Do you agree that a judge not upholding the law, perverts the law when someone is freed for saying he's sorry?

 

Nakdimon

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I would very much disagree. Take for instance Surah 33. Someone that knows the context of that revelation knows that there are different situations in the life of Muhammad that are contained in the Surah. It starts off with the situation of Zaynab, his daughter-in-law, and Allah addresses the relations between people in general. Then it talks about a covenant with the prophets out of the blue and talks about the punishment of the infidels. (verse 7+8) Suddenly just like that we find ourselves in the battle of Uhud and then all of a sudden from verse 28 we find Allah talking about Muhammads wives and their behaviour and the marital relations of other muslims in general. Then, again, out of the blue, from verse 63, Allah starts talking about people asking Muhammad about the Hour and then Allah starts to threaten disbelievers with painful torments. How is this all in relation to one another? I don't see that, so please explain how we are to view this all in the context.

 

The Qur'an has its own style. The Qur'an is not trying to teach us history, or science, or some other subject. It's a spiritual guide. It's not a book, as such, either, it's meant to be recited out loud in a melodious voice. And the style of the Qur'an fits this extraordinarily well.

 

I know the Qur'an speaks about other things as well, but there is an overemphasis on hell, torment and punishment. And when you have laws that say that speaking loudly in Muhammads presence nullifies good deeds, that is awfully convenient for the only person that supposedly received these words as divine revelation, don't you think? When people don't want to go out dor jihad, they are threatened with hellfire. When people annoy Muhammad, they are threatened with torment. When people question his claims, they are threatened with a painful doom. When people ask him questions, they are threatened with a humiliation in the hereafter. And the list goes on. Sometimes it even makes no sense in the context it's written in, as shown above. Why is that?

 

Let's see if this is really true.

2:24 talks about hell, 2:25 talks about paradise

2:159 talks about punishment, 2:160 talks about mercy and forgiveness

2:161-162 talk about punishment, 2:163 talks about mercy and graciousness

2:201-202 talk about reward

2:204-206 describe an evil person, 2:207 describes a pious person and talks of love

3:3-4 talk about past revelations and warn of God's punishment, 3:7-9 talks about the Quran and mercy and bounties and the promise of the Day of Judgement

3:10-14 talk about the Pharaoh, materialism, and punishment, 3:15-18 talk about believers, paradise, patience, charity, worship, knowledge, justice, might, and wisdom

3:31 talks about love, mercy, and forgiveness

3:113-115 talk about the pious People of the Book, righteousness, good deeds, and reward, 3:116-117 talks about unbelievers, and fire and punishment

3:131 talks about hell, 3:132-134 talk about obedience, mercy, forgiveness, paradise, goodness, and love

3:148-150 talk about God's reward, protection, and help, 3:151 talks about terror and hell

3:152 mentions God's forgiveness and graciousness

3:155 talks about satan and bad-deeds and God's pardon, forgiveness, and clemency

3:162 talks about hell, 3:163 talks about paradise

3:191-194 are a prayer asking God for forgiveness and salvation from hell, 3:195 talks about paradise

3:196-197 talk about unbelievers and hell, 3:198-200 talk about believers, paradise, reward, patience, steadfastness, and success

4:55-56 are about fire, hell, and punishment, 4:57 is about believers and paradise

4:95-96 talk about striving, reward, forgiveness and mercy

4:97 talks about punishment and hell, 4:99 talks about forgiveness and clemency

4:110-111 talk about sin and forgiveness and mercy and knowlege and wisdom

4:115-121 talk about hostility to the Prophet and idolatry and satan, 4:122-126 talk about good deeds, righteousness, paradise, justice, and the example of Abraham

 

And there are so many more examples.

 

Whenever the Quran talks about punishment, it also talks about mercy, forgiveness and reward.

Edited by cefarix

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Oh, looky! Missed this post.

 

Someone that knows the context of that revelation knows that there are different situations in the life of Muhammad that are contained in the Surah.

 

Do you know the context of the entire Surah? Judging by your posts on the Qur'an in both this topic and others, I would say no.

 

It starts off with the situation of Zaynab, his daughter-in-law, and Allah addresses the relations between people in general.

 

No, it doesn't. You should look again.

 

How is this all in relation to one another? I don't see that, so please explain how we are to view this all in the context.

 

So because to your untrained eyes none of it adds up, the fault must be with the Qur'an. Flawed logic.

 

If you would like to learn about the Qur'an, take courses on the history and methodology of the Qur'an, as well as Arabic (after all, the Qur'an in its best form is in Arabic). In an Islamic institution and under Muslim teachers. You yourself admitted that you have nothing but a copy of the Qur'an at home, and I'm guessing that you spend some time here and there visiting a few Islamic websites. That is no substitution for knowledge gained in a classroom, under the watchful eyes of a good supervisor. In your current condition, you are doing nothing but absorbing your own opinions as you read the Qur'an.

 

I have been studying Islam very hard and am more aquainted with Islamic sources then most muslims.

 

Do you have a Muslim teacher?

 

Why is that?

 

From what I've seen of you, I have no doubt that every single word you've stated above is nothing more than exaggerations and wayward interpretations of the Qur'an. "The Qur'an talks a lot about punishment". "Prophet Muhammad receives undue rights". Opinion.

 

You claim the Qur'an is comprehensible and very organized. Where is your proof? I have given you my proof above.

 

It doesn't work that way. I can sit here with my arms crossed over my stomach and wait for you to bring forth proof to your allegations. Because you brought the accusations first, therefore it is your duty to back them up.

 

Also, I don't work like that. Do you know how people say "the best defense is a good offense"? I believe the opposite to be true.

 

Challenge excepted. I am not interested in compairing books either. So let's discuss the Qur'an.

 

Once you post in the other topic, I will create a new topic for your responses.

 

Well, I'm not comparing Yahweh to ordinary judges. I'm not talking about ordinary laws either. I'm talking about Yahweh's Law, the Torah. And if we are going to discuss Yahweh's standards, then we have to take the standards of the Torah. The Torah demands a life for a life since sin brings about death. Do you agree that a judge not upholding the law, perverts the law when someone is freed for saying he's sorry?

 

I thought we weren't going to compare books? You're already referencing the book of the Jews, a book that we Muslims believe is no longer in its pure state, in order to make a point about something in the Qur'an.

 

Salam.

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Category One - Left Islam Due to Lack of Knowledge or Emotional Trauma

 

Most conversions of educated people out of Islam fall into this category. These people leave Islam for two main reasons.

 

The first reason is that they were 2nd-generation immigrants to a country like the US.

 

The second reason is that their own families were not true Muslims.

 

Category Two - Converted to Christianity Because of a Lack of Love in Islam

 

 

The Bible always talks of the Love of God, but the Quran never does that.

 

 

The God of Christianity is so much more personal than the God of Islam.

 

 

I saw Jesus and he called out to me.

 

 

1) ur post is a sweeping generalisation

 

2) some people leave simply cuz they don't believe anymore ( no external factors ! )

 

3) i'm sure u wouldn't like it if someone said that people who convert to Islam convert cuz they're being " tricked/ deceived " and not cuz they actually believe in what they are doing !

 

people can believe what they want and it 's not up to us to say what right and what's wrong.

 

salam.

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:j:

 

I respect your opinion brother 'high', and you are entitled to it. But I feel differently.

 

Brother cefarix has compiled the testimonies of conversions out of Islam in quite a comprehensive way in his first post, and subsequently, which I find to be quite true. I would like to commend him on this, and I hope that he does not get to emotionally affected or swayed by these testimonies.

 

May Allah :sl: bless him for his efforts...

 

Regarding your post,

1) ur post is a sweeping generalisation

 

Maybe so, but from the testimonies that can be found online, I would humbly say that these things are quite true. Majority of people who convert out of Islam, at least from what we can gather online, fall into certain profiles that cefariz have mentioned, and come from the same background.

 

Perhaps a research study can tell us more, but at the moment, all we have are these testimonies.

 

2) some people leave simply cuz they don't believe anymore ( no external factors ! )

 

Depends on what you mean by 'external factors'.

Usually if a person leaves Islam, or any belief system, it at least comes with a personal reason, which can very easily be influenced by life experiences. I have not heard of anyone leaving Islam just because he/she did not believe in it anymore...

 

3) i'm sure u wouldn't like it if someone said that people who convert to Islam convert cuz they're being " tricked/ deceived " and not cuz they actually believe in what they are doing !

 

people can believe what they want and it 's not up to us to say what right and what's wrong.

 

salam.

 

I'm not sure how you perceive Islam, but I perceive our aqeedah to be more superior than other belief systems, and I am greatly affected when I hear such conversion stories.

 

Addressing your point, indeed, sometimes there are cases where people are tricked into Islam happens as well, and it is our responsibility to make sure that dawah is done the correct way, and to at least speak out if we see such things happening.

 

And yes people can believe what they want. For Allah :no: says in the Quran that there is no compulsion in religion. But we too can form our own opinions , as to why these conversions occur. We can thus formulate our own plans, intentions and actions to prevent our fellow Muslim brothers and sisters from falling astray.

 

:sl:

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Usually if a person leaves Islam, or any belief system, it at least comes with a personal reason, which can very easily be influenced by life experiences.

 

not always .

 

 

I have not heard of anyone leaving Islam just because he/she did not believe in it anymore...

.

 

the very definition of converting from ur religion to another one is cuz u dun believe in it anymore ( unless it's forced conversion )... maybe u find it hard to accept cuz it seems strange to u that anyone might leave Islam cuz they dun believe in it

 

 

but I perceive our aqeedah to be more superior than other belief systems

 

no offense , but don't say such things in public like this cuz our non-muslim members might be offended :sl:

 

and I am greatly affected when I hear such conversion stories.

 

maybe ur too emotional then hehe

 

mere videos shouldn't make up ur mind 4 u, only u can make up ur own mind !

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no offense , but don't say such things in public like this cuz our non-muslim members might be offended :sl:

 

Are you, as a Muslim according to your profile, saying that anything within Islam is less superior to that of disbelievers?

 

Salam.

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2) some people leave simply cuz they don't believe anymore ( no external factors ! )

 

Actually, you are dead-wrong. No one goes to bed one day with absolute belief in their heart and wakes up the next day as a kaffir.

 

People leave Islam because of flaws in their belief system, flaws that are cultivated by their life experiences and choices. Brother cefarix and brother freedslave are both right when they say that how we spend our lives and who we spend it with can affect the level of imaan we have.

 

A man who spends all of his time devoted to Allah and surrounded by Muslims is less likely to become an apostate than one who does not practice Islam, emotionally detaches himself from Allah and spends his time with people who only serve as distractions from fulfilling his obligations.

 

Salam.

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Are you, as a Muslim according to your profile, saying that anything within Islam is less superior to that of disbelievers?

 

it's attitudes like that which cause problems between peoples...

 

i am a Muslim , but this idea of declaring a group that follow a certain ideology greater than others , is not right !

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it's attitudes like that which cause problems between peoples...

 

Mighty suspicious of you to see an "attitude" in a simple question.

 

i am a Muslim , but this idea of declaring a group that follow a certain ideology greater than others , is not right !

 

The religion of Allah is no greater than any other religion?

 

Salam.

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The religion of Allah is no greater than any other religion?

 

if u read my sig u will see that i am non-practicing !

 

i believe in God , but tiny details of organised religion , causes a lot of problem in my mind !

 

for example u might not see this , but it is very arrogant to say that " my religion is above all " ; even if u believe strongly in ur faith , it's not right to go and say such thing !

 

capiche ??

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Interesting.

 

Salam.

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Assalamu Alaikum, Oh SubhanAllah it's basedas2, MashaAllah you changed your username. May Allah take you as high as possible, that is my duaa for you.

 

for example u might not see this , but it is very arrogant to say that " my religion is above all " ; even if u believe strongly in ur faith , it's not right to go and say such thing !

 

Ya Bunayye, you, and probably many other members might be surprised, but I KIND OF PARTIALLY AGREE WITH THE STATMENT YOU MADE (in quotes above). It reminded me of a true story of a very Great Scholar of Islam, I don't remember his name, but his name ended with ANDULOUSI. It so happened that him and his students were passing by a village and he saw a Church and people going in the Church and a though came into his head something like, SEE WE ARE BETTER THAN THEM, This thought became the source of changing his life upside down, and he had to go through difficult times, and after a long time and sincere repentence and duaas of his collegues and students he got back on the right path.

 

It is a very long story, inshaAllah I will look for it and post it, soon. Anyways, arrogance is not good, we should be thankful because Allah loves us enough to make us Muslims, and we should make duaa for those who are still out there looking for the Right thing. There is no doubt that Islam is the Right way of life, and anyone denying that is either ignorant or just does'nt want to accept it. At the same time, we should'nt look down upon others nor call their Religion bad. Allah is the changer of Hearts, we don't know how and when and why Allah will change the Hearts of People, Muslims as well as Non Muslims.

 

We should be thankful to Allah and make duaa that he keeps us from those who are always guided and not from amongst those who were on the right path and turned away from it, Astaghfirullah.

 

May Allah forgive me if I have said anything wrong, ameen, and I hope I have not hurt anyone by what I said.

 

Salaam.

 

PS: JUST WANT TO LET THE READERS KNOW THAT THIS IS A REPLY TO THE POST MADE BY high. I HAVE'NT READ THE WHOLE THREAD IN DETAIL.

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:sl:

 

When you put it like that, sister, how can anyone disagree. Jazakallah khair for sharing your wisdom.

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