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the very definition of converting from ur religion to another one is cuz u dun believe in it anymore ( unless it's forced conversion )... maybe u find it hard to accept cuz it seems strange to u that anyone might leave Islam cuz they dun believe in it

 

Any examples of such cases, where there is no reason of conversion? Where one simply chooses another religion with no personal justifications?

 

no offense , but don't say such things in public like this cuz our non-muslim members might be offended :sl:

 

The Quran itself says it brother...

 

48:28 He it is who has sent forth His Apostle with the [task of spreading] guidance and the religion of truth, to the end that He make it prevail over every [false] religion; and none can bear witness [to the truth] as God does.

 

However, this does not give us the excuse to act superior over non-muslims. The Quran also says to acts justly and righteously with them, and to respect their beliefs, customs and what they worship, even if we detest it. Attitudes like arrogance are definitely discouraged in Islam. All I'm saying here is that we simply know where our religion stands, in accordance to other belief systems.

 

To aunty umAhmad, thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience, as I greatly appreciate them. Hope to hear the full story soon. Jazakallahkahir...

 

maybe ur too emotional then hehe

 

mere videos shouldn't make up ur mind 4 u, only u can make up ur own mind !

 

Nothing wrong in feeling emotional about what is close to your heart brother...

 

The video did not make up my mind about conversions. Conversions to Christianity also occur quite frequently at where I live, and from what I've seen, the converts have not really thought things through...

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Assalamu alaikum, I was looking for this Ayaah, and Alhamdulillah my son came to my rescue and pointed out where it is, May Allah bless him, ameen.

 

I'm still looking for it, I found it in Urdu in the book, Marany kay baad kya hoga (What happens after Death).

InshaAllah I'll post it as soon as I find it inshaAllah.

 

 

The Prohibition of Insulting the False gods of the Disbelievers, So that they Do not Insult Allah

 

 

Allah prohibits His Messenger and the believers from insulting the false deities of the idolators, although there is a clear benefit in doing so. Insulting their deities will lead to a bigger evil than its benefit, for the idolators might retaliate by insulting the God of the believers, Allah, none has the right to be worshipped but He. `Ali bin Abi Talhah said that Ibn `Abbas commented on this Ayah [6:108]; "They (disbelievers) said, `O Muhammad! You will stop insulting our gods, or we will insult your Lord.' Thereafter, Allah prohibited the believers from insulting the disbelievers' idols,[using large font size is not allowed]

 

 

وَلاَ تَسُبُّواْ الَّذِينَ يَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِ اللّهِ فَيَسُبُّواْ اللّهَ عَدْوًا بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ كَذَلِكَ زَيَّنَّا لِكُلِّ أُمَّةٍ عَمَلَهُمْ ثُمَّ إِلَى رَبِّهِم مَّرْجِعُهُمْ فَيُنَبِّئُهُم بِمَا كَانُواْ يَعْمَلُونَ [using large font size is not allowed]

 

108. Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. Thus have We made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end will they return to their Lord, and We shall then tell them the truth of all that they did. (Surah Al Anáam)

 

 

Assalamu alaikum.

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Any examples of such cases, where there is no reason of conversion? Where one simply chooses another religion with no personal justifications?

The Quran itself says it brother...

 

u misunderstand me , what i'm trying to say , is that it's not always a " past experience " that results in someone leaving their faith ! sometimes people just dun believe in it anymore.

 

Conversions to Christianity also occur quite frequently at where I live, and from what I've seen, the converts have not really thought things through...

 

believe me compagno , ur mind is playing tricks on u to make u think that there is no good reason someone would leave their religion !

same way if someone converts to Islam from another faith , religious people from his former faith will say he was tricked by the devil etc and other stupid claims , cuz they can't imagine that anyone would leave their faith for " no good reason " !!

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

 

in short , i dun believe in taking pride from ur faith , race or nationality since taking pride in them r the reasons 4 almost every war that has ever happened !

 

also read the history of these 3 phenomenon !

 

the idea of nationality never arose until french revolution when after it they wanted to go to africa and take their resources.. they needed a reason for people to go and fight and since " die for ur religion " wasn't big anymore over there , they made up the new concept , " die for ur country " !!!

 

also the first type of faith was in mesepotamia and it was done so the priests can have a higher place in society nothing else !!!

 

this is y i don't believe in the tiny tiny details of faith ( i believe in the tenets of Islam not the tiny details ) since the whole point of religion is to teach u morals , not to tell u " it is haram to walk into the bathroom with ur left foot first " and other silly man-made additions !!

 

u have to think about it logically and think what is the point of religion which is to teach u morals... but from what i see now , religion is just a reason to hate another peoples and control what u think!!

 

also too much overdose of religion makes a person too extreme !!

 

 

that's just my opinion !!

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^^ well i think this a problem , cuz if u tell someone frm other faith , "my faith is superior to urs " , u can't expect a good reaction from him !!

 

like i said , the idea of supremacy of one thing over another , is not right !!

 

and the bigger problem is that EVERY religion think it is the greatest !! Muslims, Christians , Jews , Buddhists, Hindus etc will all say only my religion is good which is a very wrong stance to take !! it only cause problems and wars !!

 

capite che cosa significo compagno ###### ??

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if u read my sig u will see that i am non-practicing !

 

i believe in God , but tiny details of organised religion , causes a lot of problem in my mind !

 

for example u might not see this , but it is very arrogant to say that " my religion is above all " ; even if u believe strongly in ur faith , it's not right to go and say such thing !

 

capiche ??

 

 

Assalamu Alaikum, Oh SubhanAllah it's basedas2, MashaAllah you changed your username. May Allah take you as high as possible, that is my duaa for you.

Ya Bunayye, you, and probably many other members might be surprised, but I KIND OF PARTIALLY AGREE WITH THE STATMENT YOU MADE (in quotes above). It reminded me of a true story of a very Great Scholar of Islam, I don't remember his name, but his name ended with ANDULOUSI. It so happened that him and his students were passing by a village and he saw a Church and people going in the Church and a though came into his head something like, SEE WE ARE BETTER THAN THEM, This thought became the source of changing his life upside down, and he had to go through difficult times, and after a long time and sincere repentence and duaas of his collegues and students he got back on the right path.

 

As a Muslim, I will always believe and say that Islam is superior to all other religions:

 

The Holy Quran 3:85-88

 

If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). How shall Allah Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the Messenger was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but Allah guides not a people unjust. Of such the reward is that on them (rests) the curse of Allah, of His angels, and of all mankind;- In that will they dwell; nor will their penalty be lightened, nor respite be (their lot);-

 

I will always believe and say that Islam is superior to all other religions and put Islam above all other religions BECAUSE 'Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. The Holy Quran 2:256'

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high,

 

If I believe that Islam was not the best religion, then I wouldn't be Muslim anymore. I would be of the religion that I believed was best.

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in short , i dun believe in taking pride from ur faith...bla...bla.....bla....bla.....bla....bla...

..

 

Brother freedslave is a Muslim so his religion must be Islam. On the contrary, you 'high' aka basedas2 claim that you are a Muslim while claiming proudly that you are a non-practising Muslim? What kind of Muslim are you? Can you show me any Quranic verses or hadeeths that discuss your status in Islam?

 

this is y i don't believe in the tiny tiny details of faith ( i believe in the tenets of Islam not the tiny details ) since the whole point of religion is to teach u morals , not to tell u " it is haram to walk into the bathroom with ur left foot first " and other silly man-made additions !!

 

Where do you learn that (I quote your word) " it is haram to walk into the bathroom with ur left foot first " ? It seems to me that you are making a mockery of yourself by making baseless allegations against Islam! The fact is it is Sunnah to enter the bathroom with the left foot and say: O Allâh! I seek refuge in You from the bad and evil things.

 

The fact is the religion of Islam is the acceptance of and obedience to the teachings of God which He revealed to His last prophet, Muhammad. Human love of God should be, fundamentally, a love manifest in complete obedience to the laws of God:

 

If you love God, then follow me [the Prophet] and God will love you.” (Quran 3:31)

 

u have to think about it logically and think what is the point of religion which is to teach u morals... but from what i see now , religion is just a reason to hate another peoples and control what u think!!

 

O ye people! Adore your Guardian-Lord, who created you and those who came before you, that ye may have the chance to learn righteousness; The Holy Quran 2:21

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:sl:

 

u misunderstand me , what i'm trying to say , is that it's not always a " past experience " that results in someone leaving their faith ! sometimes people just dun believe in it anymore.

 

Okay...can you provide any examples?

 

believe me compagno , ur mind is playing tricks on u to make u think that there is no good reason someone would leave their religion !

same way if someone converts to Islam from another faith , religious people from his former faith will say he was tricked by the devil etc and other stupid claims , cuz they can't imagine that anyone would leave their faith for " no good reason " !!

 

All I'm saying brother, is that they have personal reasons which to them, they have justified themselves. I am entitled to my own opinion about them.

 

I'm still interested in knowing any real-life example where a person steps out of Islam, just because as you say, 'he/she doesn't believe in it anymore'.

 

You have a really warped idea about religion brother. A few things to say about the thngs you've said...

 

1) Islam is not just about morals, it is a complete way of life.

 

2) Exercise moderation in what you do in your religion, and you wouldn't be extreme, as you've said. There's a hadith about this; if I can find it i'll post it here.

 

3) Be proud to be Muslim, but not to the point of arrogance, not to the point of hating non-Muslims. Trust me, it is possible to do these things at the same time.

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while claiming proudly that you are a non-practising Muslim?

 

i put this in my sig , so when people see it , they know my views r based on my own and not Islam so they don't judge Islam wrongly !!

 

What kind of Muslim are you?

 

what kind of a Muslim r u , ur supposed to treat ahl al kitab fairly , yet whenever something bad happen in the world u say it's the Jew or the Christian's fault !!

 

Where do you learn that (I quote your word) " it is haram to walk into the bathroom with ur left foot first " ?

 

man , it just a joke :sl: ... just shows u always assume the worst of people !!

 

and anyway in egypt , go to any Masjid and u'll see them walking right foot first , ask them why they do this and u'll be surprise of the answer !!

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and anyway in egypt , go to any Masjid and u'll see them walking right foot first , ask them why they do this and u'll be surprise of the answer !!

what's the big deal i wonder? did they force you to enter Masjid with right foot? so let them imitate what the Prophet did.

 

wassalam,

y

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it's attitudes like that which cause problems between peoples...

to believe whether something is better or not is the right of every person. how it causes problems between peoples?

 

i am a Muslim , but this idea of declaring a group that follow a certain ideology greater than others , is not right !

according to whom? liberalist think their ideology is better and greater than socialist ... secularists think that their ideology is greater than theocratic ... so, what is not right? according to you, which one is better: secularism or theocracy?

 

your very fist post in this thread might be acceptable/debatable, but as you go along, you seem to have become confused with what you are arguing about.

 

wassalam,

y

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Astagfriullah akhee's, dont call 'high' a brother!

Until he proves otherwise I personally dont believe he deserves to be called that.

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what's the big deal i wonder? did they force you to enter Masjid with right foot? so let them imitate what the Prophet did.

actually, high, it is rather arrogant (or ignorant) of you to imply that muslims should have not followed their Prophet's sunnah, which is a basic part of their religious duties as a muslim.

 

wassalam,

y

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Astagfriullah akhee's, dont call 'high' a brother!

 

why ??

 

i believe in shahada , i think i count as a muslim this way :sl: !!

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actually, high, it is rather arrogant (or ignorant) of you to imply that muslims should have not followed their Prophet's sunnah, which is a basic part of their religious duties as a muslim.

 

i think people take it too literally !!

 

what difference it make what foot u step into the bathroom with or how long ur beard is , such things r silly and insignificant in my mind and have nothing to do with the real teaching of religion !!

 

we dun have to copy the Prophet in every tiny detail possible , if God wanted us to be like him exactly , he would have made us like him exact !!

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we dun have to copy the Prophet in every tiny detail possible , if God wanted us to be like him exactly , he would have made us like him exact !!

so if you were a leader with an authority, i guess you would make it illegal for muslims to copy the Prophet in every tiny detail?

 

wassalam,

y

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so if you were a leader with an authority, i guess you would make it illegal for muslims to copy the Prophet in every tiny detail?

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

why would i do that ???!!!

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why would i do that ???!!!

because you appear to me as a closed-minded person. i am not even bothered what christians or any other religious followers are doing with all their rituals even though it may seem silly to many people. as long as it is not against the law, it's live and let live. they do whatever they want, and i do what ever i like.

 

wassalam,

y

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why ??

 

i believe in shahada , i think i count as a muslim this way :sl: !!

 

Believing and practicing are two different things. Only Allah knows what truly in your heart.

 

Anyway.. I didn’t say anything about weither your a muslim or not. I said you don’t deserve to be called a brother.

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ÃŽÃíà Çæì ÇáæÇà ÃÃ¥ ÌÇíáì Úáì ÂÎÑ ÇáÒãä íÞæá 򇒂 ßÇÃÑ

 

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æ æÇááå ÇáÚÙíã ÊáÇÊÉ ãÇ åÊÃÑÞ ãÚÇíÇ áæ áÈÓÊ ÈÇä[using large font size is not allowed]

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Assalamu Alaikum, brothers, on one side we say do not judge people, Allah is the knower of what is in the heart, and on the other side we judge people, Please be careful, lest we are caught and questioned.

 

Astagfriullah akhee's, dont call 'high' a brother!

Until he proves otherwise I personally dont believe he deserves to be called that.

 

If someone really wants to make aware of their Personal opinions, they should use the PM system brother dot has provided to each member, On an open Forum, please do not try to Judge others.

 

We might think about someone that they are weird, we should look at ourselves and see where we need improvement.

Assalamu Alaikum.

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Assalamu alaikum, high, or someone else please can you provide he english translations to the Arabic sentences the you posted. JazaakAllahu Khairan.

 

Assalamu Alaikum.

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It doesn't work that way. I can sit here with my arms crossed over my stomach and wait for you to bring forth proof to your allegations. Because you brought the accusations first, therefore it is your duty to back them up.

 

Also, I don't work like that. Do you know how people say "the best defense is a good offense"? I believe the opposite to be true.

 

I have backed it up. All you have done is deny my claims without substantial evidence. Provide the evidence that my analysis of chapter 33 is wrong, then we can go on.

 

Once you post in the other topic, I will create a new topic for your responses.

 

What do you want me to do. Do I make a new post about why I can't believe that the Qur'an is inspired? I can make a topic with a couple of points why I think what I think. Or do you want me to make a new topic with one point at a time?

 

I thought we weren't going to compare books? You're already referencing the book of the Jews, a book that we Muslims believe is no longer in its pure state, in order to make a point about something in the Qur'an.

 

Salam.

 

The post I was replying on made a reference to the death of Yeshua for the sins of mankind. I thought I'd explain why it worked that way. Since the sacrificial death of the Messiah emenates from the Torah, I made that reference.

 

Nakdimon

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Nakdimon, go to (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=368201"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=368201[/url]. That's where we'll continue all of our discussions from this point.

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Assalamu Alaikum, brothers, on one side we say do not judge people, Allah is the knower of what is in the heart, and on the other side we judge people, Please be careful, lest we are caught and questioned.

If someone really wants to make aware of their Personal opinions, they should use the PM system brother dot has provided to each member, On an open Forum, please do not try to Judge others.

 

We might think about someone that they are weird, we should look at ourselves and see where we need improvement.

Assalamu Alaikum.

 

Can't a court of law punish a thief just because it doesn't know his heart? Is a man still a Muslim if he goes to the church to worship Jesus? Is a man still Muslim if he reject, insult or ridicule the teachings of the prophet Muhammad? Yes we do not know their heart but we know their actions, sayings etc reflect their heart so leave the heart issue to Allah and we are judging the behaviour, actions, sayings etc of the people! If a person, who claims to be a Muslim, say or write anti-Islamic statements to reject, insult or ridicule the teachings of the prophet Muhammad, I would not hesitate to call that apostasy:

 

Say: "If ye do love Allah, Follow me (the prophet Muhammad): Allah will love you and forgive you your sins: For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." Say: "Obey Allah and His Messenger": But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith. The Holy Quran 3:31-32

 

As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe. Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur). Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe. Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not! In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves). The Holy Quran 2: 6-10

 

How shall Allah Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the Messenger was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but Allah guides not a people unjust. Of such the reward is that on them (rests) the curse of Allah, of His angels, and of all mankind;- In that will they dwell; nor will their penalty be lightened, nor respite be (their lot);- Except for those that repent (Even) after that, and make amends; for verily Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. But those who reject Faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith,- never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray. As to those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- never would be accepted from any such as much gold as the earth contains, though they should offer it for ransom. For such is (in store) a penalty grievous, and they will find no helpers. The Holy Quran 3:86-91

 

Rejection of the totality of hadith as the second primary source of Islam is regarded as rejection even of the Qur’an since the Qur’an firmly establishes the authority of sound hadith. If a person rejects, ridicules or insults the sound hadith, I would not hesitate to call that apostasy.

 

Ibn Mas`ud reported the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) as having said, "The blood of a Muslim who testifies that there is no god but Allah and that I am the Messenger of Allah is not lawful to shed unless he be one of three: a married adulterer, someone killed in retaliation for killing another, or someone who abandons his religion and the Muslim community.".

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