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anthony19832005

Usa "justice"

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Peace

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.nytimes(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/2006/12/19/us/19georgia.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.nytimes(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/2006/12/19/us/19geo...amp;oref=slogin[/url]

 

ATLANTA, Dec. 18 — Genarlow Wilson, 20, is serving a prison sentence that shocked his jury, elicited charges of racism from critics of the justice system and that even prosecutors and the State Legislature acknowledge is unjust. He was sentenced to 10 years in prison without parole for having consensual oral sex with a 15-year-old girl at a New Year’s Eve party, an offense that constituted aggravated child molesting, even though Mr. Wilson himself was only 17.

 

With Mr. Wilson — a football player, honor student and the first homecoming king at Douglas County High School — nearing two years in prison, the Georgia Supreme Court declined last Friday to hear his appeal.

 

Mr. Wilson, who is black, is trapped in a legal vise intended to ensure severe penalties for child molesters and other sex offenders, navigating a maze of legal technicalities that for him seems to hold nothing but dead ends. Some critics of the sentence also say Mr. Wilson is caught in a system that metes out disproportionately harsh sentences to black defendants.

 

What Justice is this?

 

Salaam

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PropellerAds

I resent the title of this post. Do you think that this is a product of anything we support or stand for? Absolutely not. Is this a common occurence or practice? Of course not. This man was a victim of a covoluted law that was nevertheless meant to protect children from child molesters. It isn't a good thing, but I still dislike how you are inflating an Issue to represent a suppossed decadent state of affairs in the American Judicial system. It is a misscarraige of justice. It is by no mean representative of the US.

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:D

 

Does anyone know (or can find out from an 'Alim) what the Islamic punishment would be in this case? ie. consensual oral sex. I know none of them would be considered to be underaged as both are in puberty; but no hadd punishment as it's not intercourse. Is there a fixed punishment for these kind of sins, or upto the judge?

 

:D

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Peace

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.nytimes(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/2006/12/19/us/19georgia.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.nytimes(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/2006/12/19/us/19geo...amp;oref=slogin[/url]

What Justice is this?

 

Salaam

:D/Peace To All

 

Believe it or not, but there is a lot of Justice in the U.S.

 

There are instances where the Justice system doesn't operate smoothely as desired, but that happens in all societies. And in some, the justice system doesn't even come close to what we have.

 

Please insert the actual title in the NYT, or put something that closely resembles what the actual title is trying to convey...

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:D

 

Does anyone know (or can find out from an 'Alim) what the Islamic punishment would be in this case? ie. consensual oral sex. I know none of them would be considered to be underaged as both are in puberty; but no hadd punishment as it's not intercourse. Is there a fixed punishment for these kind of sins, or upto the judge?

 

:D

I'd have thought most muslim countries would have them both stoned, or shot. Or just the woman?

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I'd have thought most muslim countries would have them both stoned, or shot. Or just the woman?

 

I am afraid your answer says more about your prejudices than anything about predominantly Muslim Countries.

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I'd have thought most muslim countries would have them both stoned, or shot. Or just the woman?

No, that's not true. The Islamic punishment in the case of adultery/fornication only applies if it meets the evidential requirements set by the Qur'an. It applies to both the man and the woman. If the adulterers were married, and they had intercourse, and there were four trustworthy witnesses who observed it, then they are to be stoned. If there are medical evidences etc, then they will be punished, but the stoning doesn't apply, as it doesn't meet the specific 'witness' requirement. If they were unmarried, then the punishment of lashing applies; again, that too if the witness requirement is met.

 

So the hadd punishment (stoning/lash etc) do not apply for oral sex. But I don't know what kind of punishment is applied; whether there are some specific punishment, or it's on the best judgement of the judge.

 

Allah knows best.

Edited by anonymous

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No, that's not true. The Islamic punishment in the case of adultery/fornication only applies if it meets the evidential requirements set by the Qur'an. It applies to both the man and the woman. If the adulterers were married, and they had intercourse, and there were four trustworthy witnesses who observed it, then they are to be stoned. If there are medical evidences etc, then they will be punished, but the stoning doesn't apply, as it doesn't meet the specific 'witness' requirement. If they were unmarried, then the punishment of lashing applies; again, that too if the witness requirement is met.

 

So the hadd punishment (stoning/lash etc) do not apply for oral sex. But I don't know what kind of punishment is applied; whether there are some specific punishment, or it's on the best judgement of the judge.

 

Allah knows best.

Thanks for clearing my misunderstanding up on the stoning issue.

 

That said, I'd prefer the American justice. unfair as it seems in this case. The black chap should be thankful he's not in a muslim country.

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Peace

 

Ok Thezman, I got a bit carried away, sorry man.

 

Feel free to delete the thread or change the title

 

Salaams

:D

No need to. You added the original title...

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This is definitely a miscarraige of justice. There has to be something that can be done. I would be surprised if there were not lawyers working on this issue pro bono right now to help this poor guy.

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Thanks for clearing my misunderstanding up on the stoning issue.

 

That said, I'd prefer the American justice. unfair as it seems in this case. The black chap should be thankful he's not in a muslim country.

 

So you would choose 10 years rather than 100 lashes.

 

Interesting.

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So you would choose 10 years rather than 100 lashes.

 

Interesting.

:D

 

I don't think the lashes would apply.

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Salaams

 

:D

I don't think the lashes would apply.

I think it would bcaz the couple was unmarried.

Lucky for them bcaz otherwise they would be stoned to death ( an i don't mean chronic :D )

honestly I'm not know what's worse, getting 100 lashes or 10 yrs, let's do the math.

PRISON

-a 10 yr term = 5yrs (since nights count)

-a 5 yr term + good behavior mean probably a couple of years with probation.

-guarding chasity while there still an issue :D

 

Lashes

-No one can survive even 50 lashes at once so it would probably need to be broken down

into 3 to 5 sessions.

-Beating from the first may take weeks to heal temporarily ofcource so the entire

duration add up to 2-3 months of agony.

-There will be permanent scars.

 

Sill not sure which is worse :D

Peace

Edited by llogical

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I think it would bcaz the couple was unmarried.

No. Lashes apply if the individuals were unmarried and had intercourse. Also there has to be four witnesses who observed it.

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No. Lashes apply if the individuals were unmarried and had intercourse. Also there has to be four witnesses who observed it.

Fair then. Animals.

 

No I would rather do the time than take a Middle Age punishment.

 

Four witnesses who observe it....how bloody ridiculous, surely knowing the penalty, and wishing to be discrete in the first place, anyone choosing to do this sort of thing would do it away from anybody else, never mind four people!!

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Four witnesses who observe it....how bloody ridiculous, surely knowing the penalty, and wishing to be discrete in the first place, anyone choosing to do this sort of thing would do it away from anybody else, never mind four people!!

True. That is why such punishments are very rare.

However, if there are no witnesses, but the individuals confess of their action, then the hadd punishment applies.

So the possible cases of hadd punishment are : presence of four witnesses at the scene (almost non-existant), or voluntary confession by the individuals.

And Allah knows best.

Edited by anonymous

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No. Lashes apply if the individuals were unmarried and had intercourse. Also there has to be four witnesses who observed it.

:D But they were unmarried and did have an intercource, so Lashes do Apply.

What did i miss? :D

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:D But they were unmarried and did have an intercource, so Lashes do Apply.

What did i miss? :D

It was oral; not intercourse. Lashing would only apply for the latter.

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It was oral; not intercourse. Lashing would only apply for the latter.

lol..the Bill clinton defense, but ofcource :D

kind of a crack in the system don't you think.

Peace

Edited by llogical

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lol..the Bill clinton defense, but ofcource :D

kind of a crack in the system don't you think.

Peace

The hadd punishment has very strict criteria. It is a severe punishment, so only applies when the guilt can be proven by the guidelines set by the Shari'ah (ie. Qur'an and Ahadith). If one is found guilty for similar sins, then punishments might apply, but they won't be the specific hadd punishment of the Qur'an.

And Allah knows best

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True. That is why such punishments are very rare.

However, if there are no witnesses, but the individuals confess of their action, then the hadd punishment applies.

So the possible cases of hadd punishment are : presence of four witnesses at the scene (almost non-existant), or voluntary confession by the individuals.

And Allah knows best.

 

So if the accused simply denies it, he gets off? That hardly sounds fair in an age of DNA testing that can prove the act despite a confession.

 

To be perfectly blunt, it seems as if sharia doen't apply to our modern era.

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So if the accused simply denies it, he gets off? That hardly sounds fair in an age of DNA testing that can prove the act despite a confession.

 

To be perfectly blunt, it seems as if sharia doen't apply to our modern era.

Whats makes this era better off then the era of our Prophet, where Justice couldnt be matched from any era. Modern era of what, whats the Justice that you are trying to defend from this modern era, can you deny the fact that Women in the western world is a form of entertainment? Why is it the 75% of Ads have naked women on them? where is the equality, and i dont want people coming back and trying to compare Democracy with the Taliban or whatever because i have simply denied that they practiced sharia. As a matter of fact that 17 year old was probably influenced by the pornography and the violent music videos he is used to!

Edited by Pashton

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Salaams

The hadd punishment has very strict criteria. It is a severe punishment, so only applies when the guilt can be proven by the guidelines set by the Shari'ah (ie. Qur'an and Ahadith). If one is found guilty for similar sins, then punishments might apply, but they won't be the specific hadd punishment of the Qur'an.

And Allah knows best

So let me get this straight.

If a female is vicim forcibly coerced to perform Oral at gun point,but there is no penetration, than the hadd punishment won't apply?

Bcaz if so then IMO That's a major flaw.

 

peace

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So if the accused simply denies it, he gets off?

Of course not. If sufficient evidence is there of such an act, then there would be punishment. But it won't be the hadd punishment. i.e. there won't be stoning/lashes, but can be other type of punishment.

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