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JCBeliever

A Prophet After The Messiah

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Peace Layna,

That's also good to hear, although this seems contradictory. Why did Muhammed lead offensive wars against Jewish kingdoms in Arabia and stuff? I hope you can pardon my ignorance.

 

It would be more ignorant of me to delve into an explanation of the wars done in Islam's name, because I don't have the knowledge to do so (I don't usually focus on the political aspect of Islam). So instead of blindly trying to make a point, I'll be open-minded and actually do some reading on it. :sl:

 

Okay, but it's strange in a way. Most Muslims go to the Masjid and pray, even if they're not the best Muslims. If a Christian is even slightly a bad Christian, he won't even go to Church! Although it's harder to sleep in on a Friday night vs. a Sunday morning.
Most people really don't pray in the Masjid. I've even met people who've never prayed a single prayer in their lives.
Okay, but that last statment isn't fair. Punishment might be a helpful tool in prevention, but it's not the sole reason at the end of the day why people shouldn't cheat. People just have to be aware that cheating is sinful and against God and fellow man. If they can't see that then their spiritually ignorant.

 

I think the problem is that we disagree over the reason we human beings were created. We believe that if God ordered us to do something, we do so to please him, not because we feel it is right (though that's a big bonus).

 

I fear God. I strive to enter Heaven, but I fear his wrath more than I seek his reward. Does that make sense? That doesn't make me spiritually ignorant. It makes me want to please God all the more if I know the consequence of displeasing him. Which isn't to say that I don't love him, because I really do.

If Hezbollah wanted to wage a holy wat against israel, they absolutely should not have set up their missles and stuff in Lebanese villages. Don't you think it's their fault? I mean, they delibrately brought war to the Lebanese people. That goverment should the the only thing controlling that country anyways, it's not very big.

Syria and Iran are both meddling in Lebanon's politics, and that bothers me. So it's a democratic country, that doesn't mean it's a puppet regime of the West. It's controlled by Lebonese.

If some so-called terrorist group hides out in the U.S and attacks Canada, does Canada have the right to retaliate against America and kill civilians? It doesn't matter what the goal is, the means of getting there is what matters. And getting to a terrorist group by killing innocent people who are not involved is wrong and should not be encouraged by the U.S.
I've been paying attention to Somalia. I don't think the US should have any involvement with your country. From what I heard, Ethiopia was concerned with having an Islamic state next to it, considering it's population is 50% Muslim! It all comes down to politics. I only wish if they got involved, that they'd stay in Somalia and help it become a stable country with no warlords. You all deserve a stable country.

 

You're right. Ethiopia wouldn't want a Islamic state right next to it. But that doesn't make an invasion right in the least bit. And also, of course the U.S shouldn't get involved. But they did, and they always do when they deem a "cause" worthy of their attention.

 

Anyway, as much as I've enjoyed this discussion (and I really have, you are one of the most patient Christians I've met), I don't want it to drag on forever, so I'll concede this argument to you. :sl:

 

May God have mercy on all of those who believe in him,

Salam

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PropellerAds
Messiah means Savior, and is a naturally higher position than a Prophet, who is generally a teacher and can't save mankind. What do Muslims believe the Messiah's role actually is?

 

No Messiah comes from the word Massaha.. means to Rub, To Massage, To anoint. So Messiah means the anointed one.

 

No Muslim is a Muslim, if he does not believe in Jesus. We believe in his miraculous birth. We believe, that he healed those born blind and lepers with God's permission, and he rose the dead with God's permission. We believe he is the Messiah. We believe in his second coming. We believe in what was sent down on to Jesus (Injil / Gospel)

 

Here I mention what says in the Quran about Jesus, his birth and about his Mother Mary

 

Surathul Al Imran chap 3 verse 42-46

 

42. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.

 

43. "O Mary! worship Thy Lord devoutly: Prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down."

 

44. This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Messenger.) by inspiration: Thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary: Nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point).

 

45. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.

 

46. "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."

Edited by vishah

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Peace vishah,

 

The Messiah will be "the" Anointed One chosen by God to save mankind from the AntiChrist/Dajjal and will save the human race. I guess the point of this thread was if Jesus is this figure in your religion and you believe he had a miraculous birth and was of the closest to Allah and that his mother was a specially purified woman to bear Jesus...well, why isn't Jesus the Seal of the Prophets? The Prophets have all spoke about the Messiah and how He will bring a kingdom of peace to earth and bring everyone to God. He was supposed to fulfilled Muhammed's role as the Prophet and be the key to man's salvation, ascend to Heaven, and come down again to fulfill the second part of his role as the Messiah. Why doesn't Islam have it this way?

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This whole argument is based on faith. You can't prove that God was with gospellers when they compiled the Bible, and I certainly can't prove that the Qur'an was a revelation from God.

 

:sl:

 

I beg to differ, sister. Read: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetexaminethetruth(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/ahmed_opening.htm#Evidence1"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetexaminethetruth(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/ahmed_opening.htm#Evidence1[/url]

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetmiraclesofthequran(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index2.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetmiraclesofthequran(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index2.html[/url]

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:sl:

I beg to differ, sister. Read: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetexaminethetruth(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/ahmed_opening.htm#Evidence1"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetexaminethetruth(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/ahmed_opening.htm#Evidence1[/url]

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetmiraclesofthequran(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index2.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetmiraclesofthequran(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index2.html[/url]

 

Asalamu alaikum, brother.

 

Thank you for the links, I enjoyed reading the introduction of the first one immensely and look forward to reading the rest of it.

 

By my comment earlier, I meant that I personally wouldn't be able to prove that the Qur'an is from Allah, because I'm still discovering the miracles alhamdullilah, and it would be a long time before I would become an expert on the Qur'an. :sl:

 

Salam

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Assalamu alikum

Nice to meet you again

Dear brother JCBeliever, please read this completely. May Allah show you the right path.

 

Prophets except Muhammed (PBUH) was sent down only to a particular place for a particular period of time. For example, prophet Lot was sent down to the people of Sedum, Prophet Moses was sent down to the tribes of israel, and prophet Jesus was sent down to the Jews.

 

It is mentioned in Surath Al Imran Chapter 3 Verse 49

“49.And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah.s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;”

 

It is also mentioned in the Gospel of Saint Mathew chapter 10 Verse 5-6

“5.These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6. Go rather to the lost sheep of israel.”

 

Further it is mentioned in the Gospel of Sain Mathew chapter 15 verse 24

“ 24.He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of israel."”

 

Moreover, it is mentioned in surathul Ahzab chapter 33 Verse 40

“40. Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.”

 

Also it is stated in surathul Saba chapter 34 verse 28

“28. We have not sent thee but as a universal (Messenger) to men, giving them glad tidings, and warning them (against sin), but most men understand not.”

 

The Prophets have all spoke about the Messiah

 

The coming of our beloved prophet was also prophesized by the other prophets. It is also prophesized, in the bible. It is mentioned in the Old Testament, in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18

“I will raise them up a prophet, from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them, all that I shall command him”

 

From among their brethren

As we all know, the Arabs and the Jews are brothers to each other. The Arabs were the children of Ismail, and Jews were the children of Ishaq. Muhmmed (PBUH) was an Arab, and was therefore was among the descendants of Ishmaelite and among the brethren of israelites.

 

Like unto thee

When we ask a Christian he would tell you this prophecy is for Jesus and for the reasons he will tell

1-Moses was a Jew, and Jesus was also a Jew.

2-Moses was a prophet and Jesus was also a prophet* (*but when it comes out of the topic, they say he is the begotten son of god...)

 

But if these are the only crieteria for discovering a candidate for the prophecy mentioned in Deutronomy 18:18, then there are many prophets after Moses, which can fit in to this criteria like Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel,

Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist etc.. Because they ALL were "Jews" as well as "Prophets". And why should not we apply this to one of these prophets why only to Jesus? Why should we make fish of one and fowl of another.

 

My conclusion is Jesus was the most unlike to Moses but Muhammad is "most likely" to prophet Moses therefore, let us reason.

 

1-In the first place, according to Christians "Jesus is a God, but Moses is not a God.

2-Secondly according to them, Jesus died for the sins of this world, but Moses did not have to.

3-According to them, Jesus went to Hell for three days and Moses didn’t.

4-Moses had a father and a Mother, so as Muhammed, but Jesus had onlly a mother, no human father (accordibng to christians).

5-Moses and Muhmmed were born in the normal, natural course i.e physical association of a male and female, but Jesus was created in a special miracle.

6-Moses and Muhammed Married and had chirldren, but Jesus remained a bachelor all his life.

7-Moses and Muhammed was accepted as prophets by their people in their very life time, but even 2000 years after, jews as a whole had rejected him. So even the bible confirms (HE (JESUS) CAME UNTO HIS OWN, BUT HIS OWN RECIEVED HIM NOT)( John 1:11)

8-Moses and Muhammed did bring new laws, and new regulations,

as far as Jesus is considered refer to (Mathew 5:17-18)

9-Both Muhammed and Moses had natural deaths, but according to Christians Jesus was violently killed on the cross

10-Moses and Muhammad both lie buried in earth, but according to christians, Jesus rest in Heaven.

 

and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them, all that I shall command him

 

For example if I tell you “Say, I am ready”, you will tell, “I am ready”, but if I were to put my words in your mouth, then you have to utter, “Say, I am ready” right.

If I ask you, to open Deuteronomy chapter 18 and verse 18 and ask you to read, and if you had read; would I be putting my words on your mouth? NO right, but if I were to teach you a language which you had no knowledge and if I tell you to read or repeat after me what I Utter, wouldn’t that be putting my words in your mouth? History tells us that, Muhammed (PBUH) was in a cave when Archangel Gabriel came and commanded him in his own mother tongue. “READ”. And the prophet Muhammed (PBUH) was terrified and replied “I am not learned” * – the angel commanded him for a 2nd time with the same result. For the 3rd time the angel continues. Now the prophet realized, that what was required of him was to repeat or to rehearse, and he repeated what was put into his mouth.

Surathul A’lag chapter 96 Verse 1-5

1. Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-

2. Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:

3. Proclaim! And thy Lord is Most Bountiful,-

4. He Who taught (the use of) the pen,-

5. Taught man that which he knew not.

Another example

Surathul Iklas chapter 112 Verse 1-4

 

1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

4. And there is none like unto Him.

* It is mentioned in the books of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12

“ 12And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.”

 

Our prophet’s name is mentioned by name in the bible. It is mentioned in the song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16

 

"His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem."

 

The word Muhammedim here is translated as altogether lovely. which is actually the word Muhammed with im added. Im is the plural form of respect in the hebrew language

Like the Elohim in the Hebrew language.

 

It is mentioned in gospel of John chapter 14 verse 16

“16.And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;”

 

It is mentioned in the Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26

“26.But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:”

 

The prophecy mentioned in this verse is prophet Muhammed (PBUH). It is mentioned in the quran in suratul Al Imran Chapter 3 verse 45

 

“45. Behold! The angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.”

 

It is mentioned in the Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7

“7.Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”

 

He was supposed to fulfilled Muhammed's role as the Prophet

 

It is mentioned in the Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14

“ 12.I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13.Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14.He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.”

 

Now you tell me who is full filling the role of prophet of Jesus Christ (PBUH)

 

and be the key to man's salvation

For the salvation, you need to fulfill the laws and commandments of Allah (SWT) and should abide by the rules and regulations set by him.

It is mentioned in surathul A’sr chapter verse 1-3

1. By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),

2. Verily Man is in loss,

3. Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.

If you are talking about crucifixion, please see my answer to it on (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=28845&st=40"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=28845&st=40[/url]

 

Behold! Remember the time when Muhammed (PBUH) was born. The whole world was sleeping in the darkness of fitnah. The Jews and the Christians have been misguided, because they corrupted their books with their own hands. Then think of the status of the pagan Arabs. During that time, the Arabs were the number one, as they advanced in trading etc… but they had grave illness in their society. Remember, the time when they buried girls alive. Remember the time when they spend the whole night drunken. Remember the time when they used to cheat in trading. Remember the time when there were wars between the tribes of the Arabs.

Then Allah sent down the Quran to his messenger and completed the religion Islam.(* Islam in not a new religion, but every time it is corrupted by the people. Therefore, Allah has said that he will guard this books from corruption.

“It is for us to send down the revelation and it is for us to protect it”

The light of the quran and the teachings of Islam lead the people to a new life. Under the teachings of God almighty, human kind started become so advance. The sciences mentioned in the quran forced the mulims to look deeper in to the subject, which lead to an increase in knowledge. If you recall the period which was ruled by the umavee and Abbasys then you will see this clearly.

 

As per the second coming of Jesus is concerned, he is not coming to bring up a new law or commandment. He wont be as a messanger, but he will be as a caller to the truth- Islam. Therefore he cannot be termed as the seal of the Prophets Even then, all should believe in the creed which says " There is no God, But Allah and Muhammed is his messanger." Moreover, the people of the other prophets had also to believe in him as prophesized in their book, so as to get salvation.

 

The bible accuses the prophets to things which we muslims cannot even think of. For more details please look through the posts in (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=30080&st=0"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=30080&st=0[/url]

 

May Allah show you the right path. I hope I have helped you. Infect, if you have any more doubts regarding Islam, please don’t hesitate to share with us. Moreover, If I have made any mistake, please correct me brothers and sister.

 

W.Salam

Brother Vishah

Edited by vishah

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Peace everyone,

 

In Islam, there are the old prophets, then the Messiah (Jesus), but then another prophet (Muhammed) comes after the Messiah centuries later. This appears unusual to many people who aren't Muslims. Why is it that another prophet would come after the Messiah? Why so much later? Wouldn't the Messiah have accomplished exceptionally well the task of being God's messenger and apostle? He's supposed to be a step above the prophets, who were believed to have predicted him and his life.

 

Also, why is so much more attention and emphasis placed on Muhammed and his life, and much less emphasis be put on the life and teachings of Jesus? Are there any Hadiths or Islamic holy writings exclusively about Jesus?

 

We believe in all the prophets from Adam, alayhi salam, to Muhammad, salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam. The best five prophets are Muhammad saw, Abraham as, Moses as, Jesus Son of Mary as, and Noah as. They are brothers to each other.

 

In Islam there are two Messiah, an evil one and the true one. The evil messiah is called Maseehid-Dajjaal (we seek refuge in Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, from him), which may be translated the False Messiah or the Messiah that Covers Up Something (i.e. the truth). He is the Fake Messiah, the Fake Christ, the Antichrist.

 

The other messiah is the True Messiah:

1. The Orthodox Jews/Pharisees are waiting for this True Messiah. He is going to bring Peace and he will save us from the Fake Messiah by fighting against him and destroying him and he will destroy Gog and Magog by supplicating to God Almighty. In his time peace will live on earth so much that little children play with snakes, lions play with goats, and crocodiles play with zebras and no one wants to harm anyone. The crocodile does not even want to harm the sheep. Peace will live on earth so much that it even spreads among the animals and jinn. This will happen when the True Messiah comes/returns. The Orthodox Jews and other Jew on the other hand don't believe that the True Messiah is Jesus Son of Mary, because they regard him as child out off wedlock and they did not see the peace the True Messiah was supposed to bring according to their scriptures. Therefore, they don't believe in Jesus and his Second Coming. Their information about the True Messiah is true, but the fact that they don't accept Jesus is false.

 

2. Orthodox Christians believe that the mission of the Messiah is already fulfilled at his first coming, but they believe that Jesus is the Messiah. The mistake here is that Christians regard his first coming already as the fulfillment of his messiahship. However, they are with the truth when they believe that Jesus Son of Mary is the Messiah, the True Messiah. The accusation that Muhammad, saw, was the Fake Messiah is a wrong belief, because the Christ is supposed to kill/destroy the Antichrist in the Antichrist's lifetime. Muhammad died a natural death and Christ has not returned, yet. He will return when the Maseehid-Dajjaal appears. Maseehid-Dajjaal is the one with the Mark on the forehead. He is the beast with the mark on his forehead. Christ will save the world from this Antichrist and his evil and release them from the great fear and danger.

 

3. Muslims believe that Jesus is the True Messiah, the Christ and that Maseehid Dajjaal is the Antichrist and the False Messiah who is the one who appears like a shephard, but turns out to be the wolf. He will deceive the people with his miracles. Miracles is what God Almighty will equip him with. It is told in the Bible many times, that the False Messiah, the wolf in shephard dress, the false prophet, is going to perform outstanding miracles. The miracles were the signs of prophethood until Jesus as. But hear the miracles are the sign that we have the Antichrist infront of us. Therefore, we must not accuse Muhammad to be a false prophet or Antichrist because he never claimed to be a Messiah nor did he perform such miracles which the Antichrist performs. The fact the Muhammad did not perform miracles the way the Antichrist will perform, is the proof that he is not the Antichrist or a False Prophet. Muhammad's Prophethood is the First Sign of the Day of Judgment.

 

 

 

The prophets were equipped with miracles that were appropriate for the time and place they were sent to. The miracles were based on the most developed science of the certain people.

 

The most developed science in Egypt was Magical Tricks through optical illusions and Hocus Pocus etc. The magicians were fooling the regular people with these optical illusions. Therefore, Prophet Moses performed miracles that were related to magic and optical illusions. The stick of Moses became a snake and God Almighty sent all the signs on them.

 

The most developed science in the time of Jesus as was in the field of medicine and healing, therefore, Jesus performed miracles in this area of science. He healed the diseased. He revived the dead. And Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala made the Virgin Birth possible and this is also a miracle that is related to medicine because they were wondering how a woman can give birth to a child without a husband.

 

The most developed science in Babylon were Magic such as Black Magic and the interaction with Jinn, so the prophets were equipped with miracles related to this science. Remember, that prophet Abraham was thrown in to the fire, but the fire could not burn Abraham. The fire was like an air conditioner for him, but everything else in the fire burnt.

 

The Arabs had very attachments to the moon believing it to be a mediator, so Prophet Muhammad performed a miracle with the moon by splitting it.

 

The Arabs had another very important science which was extremely developed in that time. In the time of Muhammad the science of Poetry was at its pinnacle. The country was crowded with masters in poetry. Therefore, Muhammad was given a miracle that was different from that of Jesus and Moses. Muhammad alayhi salam was an illiterate who could not read nor write, but he came forth with a book that none of the masters of poets could reproduce. They were not even able to write on verse as beautiful and strong as that ayat of Qur'an. The Qur'an is the miracle of Muhammad, a miracle for the whole manking because poetry and writing have been a very developed science until now.

 

 

 

Why does Jesus have to be the last prophet?

 

Since, the Prophethood everything is a preparation for the End of the World. Everything that happens is the preparation for the end of the world for those who live it and for death and afterlife for those who die before that time. We are already in the End Time and the Message of the Prophet Muhammad is the preparation and the armour for the nations and mankind to prepare for the coming of the True Messiah Jesus Son of Mary. If we don't prepare then we surely will fall prey to the Fake Messiah, Maseehid-Dajjaal, the Antichrist.

 

The False Messiah will appear prior to the Coming of the True Messiah (return of Jesus from the Second Heaven). Therefore, people will follow his as the true messiah because of his miracles and appearance, but they fall prey to the Liar-Messiah, but the True Messiah will appear 40 days (The first day is like a year. The second day is like a month. The third day is like a week. The other days are going to be regular days.) after the appearance of the False Messiah. Therefore, we have to perpare for the return of Jesus prior to the coming of the False Messiah, because the False Messiah appears on earth prior to the True Messiah.

 

Without preparation the coming of the true messiah may be already too late, because we already fell prey to the Antichrist. Therefore, a prophet between the first and the second coming of Jesus Son of Mary a very merciful guidance for us and the perfect preparation for the time of the Two Messiahs. The True Messiah appears when the Tribulations are at the Pinnacle and the world is immersed in evil and trials and killings and deception.

 

The second coming of Jesus proves that the Messiah is not God nor is God the Messiah.

 

By the way, Jesus will kill the False Messiah with his vision and his breath.

 

The True Messiah will not perform miracles like the False Messiah. He just comes down to destroy the False Messiah and then restore peace on Earth and to establish a Kingdom, the mountain that is lifted without hand that smashes the statue of babylon on its feet, whereby, the entire statue collapsed (as it happened in Nabukadnezzar's Dream interpreted by Prophet Daniel). This means that all religions will vanish except for Islam.

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Our prophet’s name is mentioned by name in the bible. It is mentioned in the song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16

 

"His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem."

 

The word Muhammedim here is translated as altogether lovely. which is actually the word Muhammed with im added. Im is the plural form of respect in the hebrew language

Like the Elohim in the Hebrew language.

 

:sl: brother I have to add to your post.

 

The Muhammedim who's being talked about is mentioned to be:

 

My beloved is white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand. (Song of Solomon, 5:10)

 

Check this other verse from the Book of Moses: And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them. (Deuteronomy, 33:2)

 

Where is Mount Paran? It is in Mecca, where the son of the Prophet Abraham, Ismael dwelled.

 

And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt. (21:21)

 

The Prophet Muhammed is a descendant of the Prophet Ismael and lived in Mecca of course. He was also the chief of the ten thousands saints and brought a fiery law, the "only" Law, has come

to Paran (Arabia) in its history, which judges between the wicked and

benevolent, the evil and good, the immoral and moral,

the corrupt and virtuous, is "the Criterion" (Ar. al-Furqan),

a synonym for the 'Holy Qur'an'.

 

'A BIOGRAPHY OF THE PROPHET'

 

Karen Armstrong was a Roman Catholic nun for seven years. Since 1982 she has been a TV broadcaster and a writer. Her prestigious work and the best seller, 'History of God' has earned her an envious reputation. In her most recent publication, 'Muhammad, A Biography Of The Prophet', she writes:

 

At the end of 628 A.D., the Meccans broke the Treaty of Hudaybiyah....

On 10 Ramadan, January 630, Muhammad set out at the head of the largest army every to leave Madina. Nearly all the men in the umma had volunteered and along the road their Bedouin allies joined the expedition bringing the number up to 10,000 men.

 

(On Thursday, 20 Ramadan Hijri 8 (11 January 630) Muslim army entered the city of Mekkah. The army was offered practically no resistance. Only a handful of Mekkan offered resistance. The rest stayed indoor.)

 

Muhammad had come to Mekkah not to persecute the Quraysh but to abolish the religion which had failed them. ...he rode round the Ka'aba seven times, touching the black stone each time and crying 'al-Llahu Akbar!' The shout was taken up by his 10,000 soldiers and soon the whole city resounded with words that symbolished the final victory of Islam.

 

Next Muhammad turned his attention to the 360 idols around the shrine; crowded on to their roofs and balconies, the Quraysh watched him smash each idol while he recited the verse:

 

"the truth has come, and falsehood has vanished away;

surely falsehood is certain to vanish." (Sura 17:82)

 

This expedition of prophet Muhammad with 10,000 Holy Ones, crushed the head of the wicked house, laying it bare from foundation to roof. That was the end of the idol worshipping, the termination of the age of ignorance and the cessation of the wicked and immoral acts based upon superstitions, in Paran.

 

From a *historical* point of view, one can say that upon the success or failure of this historical expedition depended the future of prophet's mission and the establishment of Islam as a Nation.Almost all the biographers of the prophet have recorded the details of the above historical expedition. And, the figure of 10,000 dedicated followers

(the Holy Saints), who had joined the prophet in this expedition, is mentioned by the majority of them. Listed below are just a few biographers and their works:

 

1. The eminent French Orientalist Maxime Rodinson, in his book

'Mohammed' writes on page 259:

 

At last he (Muhammad) set out with what was usual in Arabia

at that time, and immense army: ten thousand men.

 

2. Biographer Martin Ling's work, (life of) 'Muhammad' is based on Arabic sources of the eighth and ninth centuries. Martin had a degree in Arabic and was a keeper of Oriental Manuscripts at the British Museum. On page 293, he writes:

 

The Bedouin faithfully responded; and when the appointed day came the army was the largest that had ever set out from Medina. No able-bodied Muslim stayed behind. The Emigrants were seven hundred, with three hundred horses; the Helpers were four thousand, with five hundred horses; and the tribes, including those who joined them on the way, brought the total numbers up to nearly

ten thousand men.

 

3. Sir John Glubb had spent most of his adult life in Arabia. He was fluent in Arabic. His work; 'The Life and Times of Muhammad' is considered to be sound, comprehensive and popular work in English on prophet's life and people of the Prophet. He writes on page 305:

 

...no sooner had Abu Sofian left, than the Apostle gave orders for all to prepare for the march on Mecca. Ten thousand men are said to have answered his call. When we remember that, only two years before, he had been followed to Hudaibiya by only one thousand four hundred Muslims, the extent of the revolution in his favour in those two years can be readily appreciated.

 

On top of that the verse mentions that the Muhammedim is white(Song of Solomon, 5:10), has black hair(Song of Solomon, 5:11), and that his legs were like pillars of marble, meaning muscular. You get a description of the Prophet from here:you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetusc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/prophet/prophetdescription.html,

 

More: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetzakariya(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/resources/hilye.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetzakariya(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/resources/hilye.html[/url]

 

and from here:

 

Transmitted from Ali [son-in-law of the Prophet], may God be pleased with him, who, when asked to describe the Prophet, peace be upon him, would say: He was not too tall nor too short. He was medium sized. His hair was not short and curly, nor was it lank, but in between. His face was not narrow, nor was it fully round, but there was a roundness to it. His skin was white. His eyes were black. He had long eyelashes. He was big-boned and had wide shoulders. He had no body hair except in the middle of his chest. He had thick hands and feet. When he walked, he walked inclined, as if descending a slope. When he looked at someone, he looked at them in full face.

 

Between his shoulders was the seal of prophecy, the sign that he was the last of the prophets. He was the most generous-hearted of men, the most truthful of them in speech, the most mild-tempered of them, and the noblest of them in lineage. Whoever saw him unexpectedly was in awe of him. And whoever associated with him familiarly, loved him. Anyone who would describe him would say, I never saw, before him or after him, the like of him. Peace be upon him.

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For those who think that the worldly punishments prescribed by Islam may be unjust for any reason, please take note that sins which are punished in this life will not be punished in the hereafter. Those which go unpunished in this life may or may not be punished in the next life, depending entirely on God's Will and Mercy.

 

See: Sahih Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 81, Number 775:

 

Narrated ‘Ubada bin As-Samit:

 

We were with the Prophet in a gathering and he said, ‘Swear allegiance to me that you will not worship anything besides Allah, Will not steal, and will not commit illegal sexual intercourse.” And then (the Prophet) recited the whole Verse (i.e. 60:12). The Prophet added, ‘And whoever among you fulfills his pledge, his reward is with Allah; and whoever commits something of such sins and receives the legal punishment for it, that will be considered as the expiation for that sin, and whoever commits something of such sins and Allah screens him, it is up to Allah whether to excuse or punish him.”

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Peace vishah and everyone,

 

Assalamu alikum

Nice to meet you again

Dear brother JCBeliever, please read this completely. May Allah show you the right path.

 

Prophets except Muhammed (PBUH) was sent down only to a particular place for a particular period of time. For example, prophet Lot was sent down to the people of Sedum, Prophet Moses was sent down to the tribes of israel, and prophet Jesus was sent down to the Jews.

 

It is mentioned in Surath Al Imran Chapter 3 Verse 49

“49.And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah.s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;â€

 

It is also mentioned in the Gospel of Saint Mathew chapter 10 Verse 5-6

“5.These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6. Go rather to the lost sheep of israel.â€

 

Further it is mentioned in the Gospel of Sain Mathew chapter 15 verse 24

“ 24.He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of israel."â€

 

Moreover, it is mentioned in surathul Ahzab chapter 33 Verse 40

“40. Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.â€

 

Also it is stated in surathul Saba chapter 34 verse 28

“28. We have not sent thee but as a universal (Messenger) to men, giving them glad tidings, and warning them (against sin), but most men understand not.â€

 

 

Jesus's mission was for all people, but he did wish his apostles to administer to the Jews, and He went to the israelites because prophecy must be fulfilled. If you notice, Christianity is a highly prosetylizing religion, the Gospel (Injil) of Jesus was very much intended for all people. The Jews, in fact, tried desperately to kill the early Christians. That's why they were not a liked people later on.

 

 

 

The coming of our beloved prophet was also prophesized by the other prophets. It is also prophesized, in the bible. It is mentioned in the Old Testament, in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18

“I will raise them up a prophet, from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them, all that I shall command himâ€

This is actually the Messiah, not Muhammed. Jesus has many prophecies, in many of the prophet's writings and the Psalms, and this prophecy embedded in Moses's Torah.

 

 

As we all know, the Arabs and the Jews are brothers to each other. The Arabs were the children of Ismail, and Jews were the children of Ishaq. Muhmmed (PBUH) was an Arab, and was therefore was among the descendants of Ishmaelite and among the brethren of israelites.

 

Or, the "brethren" of the Jews of Moses's time were the Jewish people of the 1st century. This is usually how this passage is interpreted. The Messiah was supposed to have come from the Jewish nation.

 

 

When we ask a Christian he would tell you this prophecy is for Jesus and for the reasons he will tell

1-Moses was a Jew, and Jesus was also a Jew.

2-Moses was a prophet and Jesus was also a prophet* (*but when it comes out of the topic, they say he is the begotten son of god...)

 

But if these are the only crieteria for discovering a candidate for the prophecy mentioned in Deutronomy 18:18, then there are many prophets after Moses, which can fit in to this criteria like Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel,

Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist etc.. Because they ALL were "Jews" as well as "Prophets". And why should not we apply this to one of these prophets why only to Jesus? Why should we make fish of one and fowl of another.

 

My conclusion is Jesus was the most unlike to Moses but Muhammad is "most likely" to prophet Moses therefore, let us reason.

 

1-In the first place, according to Christians "Jesus is a God, but Moses is not a God.

2-Secondly according to them, Jesus died for the sins of this world, but Moses did not have to.

3-According to them, Jesus went to Hell for three days and Moses didn’t.

4-Moses had a father and a Mother, so as Muhammed, but Jesus had onlly a mother, no human father (accordibng to christians).

5-Moses and Muhmmed were born in the normal, natural course i.e physical association of a male and female, but Jesus was created in a special miracle.

6-Moses and Muhammed Married and had chirldren, but Jesus remained a bachelor all his life.

7-Moses and Muhammed was accepted as prophets by their people in their very life time, but even 2000 years after, jews as a whole had rejected him. So even the bible confirms (HE (JESUS) CAME UNTO HIS OWN, BUT HIS OWN RECIEVED HIM NOT)( John 1:11)

8-Moses and Muhammed did bring new laws, and new regulations,

as far as Jesus is considered refer to (Mathew 5:17-18)

9-Both Muhammed and Moses had natural deaths, but according to Christians Jesus was violently killed on the cross

10-Moses and Muhammad both lie buried in earth, but according to christians, Jesus rest in Heaven.

Jesus and Moses had a handful of essential similarities. Muhammed had commanalities also, but these commonalities were shared with many people.

 

When both Moses and Jesus were born, a massacre of infants took place.

Jesus turned water into red wine, and Moses made the river red. (both chemicaly changed water)

the Messiah came to lead the people to salvation, as did Moses with the Jews.

The Messiah gave the crowds bread and fish as a miracle, and Moses, by God's Will, brought the Jews manna and quail from the sky.

They both fasted for 40 days in the desert.

Both of their faces radiated pure light.

Both had a unique relationship with God, directly.

 

 

and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them, all that I shall command him

 

The Islamic version of Gabriel put the words in Muhammed's mouth. In the Bible, God Himself appears to the Prophets, in a human-like form. Islam is very different in some ways. This sort of conversation is hard because we believe different things about the Messiah. But, suppose He was sent by God with every Word of God pre-programmed in His mouth because He was the Word of God, living in the flesh. If these un-Islamic beliefs were true, that would seem a distinct fulfillment of this.

 

 

Our prophet’s name is mentioned by name in the bible. It is mentioned in the song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16

 

"His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem."

 

The word Muhammedim here is translated as altogether lovely. which is actually the word Muhammed with im added. Im is the plural form of respect in the hebrew language

Like the Elohim in the Hebrew language.

What is the prophecy here? What is being hinted about Muhammed? This could be coincidental.

 

 

It is mentioned in the Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14

“ 12.I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13.Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14.He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.â€

 

Now you tell me who is full filling the role of prophet of Jesus Christ (PBUH)

 

 

Isaiah 40:13

Who has understood the spirit of the LORD, or instructed him as his counselor?

 

Luke 24:46

I will send you what the Father has promised to give you. So wait in the city of Jerusalem until you have been given power from God.'

 

The Holy Spirit was sent by Jesus to his apostles at Pentecost. This was fulfilled already. I'd doubt Muhammed would constitute as an invisible Spirit of God.

 

John 6:14

When those men saw the big work that Jesus did, they said, `Truly, this is the Prophet that is to come into the world.'

 

 

 

For the salvation, you need to fulfill the laws and commandments of Allah (SWT) and should abide by the rules and regulations set by him.

It is mentioned in surathul A’sr chapter verse 1-3

1. By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),

2. Verily Man is in loss,

3. Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.

If you are talking about crucifixion, please see my answer to it on (you are not allowed to post links yet)"http://############gawaher######/index.php?showtopic=28845&st=40"]############gawaher######/index.php?showtopic=28845&st=40[/url]

This sort of conversation, again, is hard. Christians believe the Messiah came to fulfill prophecies and be our key to salvation. Read Isaiah 53, and Psalm 22, and Wisdom 2. Tell me what these chapters are saying? Many more prophecies exist.

 

 

May Allah show you the right path. I hope I have helped you. Infect, if you have any more doubts regarding Islam, please don’t hesitate to share with us. Moreover, If I have made any mistake, please correct me brothers and sister.

 

W.Salam

Brother Vishah

 

I will, this is a good site.

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Peace JC Believer,

Nice to see you again

 

Jesus Christ was sent only to Jews as I said before.

Here clearly it says

Saint Mathew chapter 15 verse 24

“ 24.He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of israel."”

From among them, those who accepted Jesus, were called Christians.

Or, the "brethren" of the Jews of Moses's time were the Jewish people of the 1st century. This is usually how this passage is interpreted. The Messiah was supposed to have come from the Jewish nation

 

Brethren will be brethren whether it is in the time of Moses, Jesus or Muhammad, because kinship doesn’t change according to time. For example, if you are a brother of some person, then you will be his brother, no matter what century it is.

Even today, the Arabs are the brethren of the israelites.

 

When both Moses and Jesus were born, a massacre of infants took place.

Jesus turned water into red wine, and Moses made the river red. (both chemicaly changed water)

the Messiah came to lead the people to salvation, as did Moses with the Jews.

The Messiah gave the crowds bread and fish as a miracle, and Moses, by God's Will, brought the Jews manna and quail from the sky.

They both fasted for 40 days in the desert.

Both of their faces radiated pure light.

Both had a unique relationship with God, directly.

 

1. Even when Muhammad (PBUH) was born, the Arabs used to burry girls alive.

2. Jesus turned water in to red wine? From where did you get the word RED. Islam is the only religion which says don’t even touch alcohol. Today the scientist has discovered that alcohol is a danger to the life, therefore, how can we Muslims even think of accusing Jesus like that? Moreover, Moses turned water in to blood.

3. In the war of Kandaq, the Islamic army faced a shortage of food. Once, they had food, which was sufficient for only one person, but even then an army of 3,000 ate until their stomach was full. This is not a fairy tale.

4. Muhammed (PBUH) was from a desert and he used to fast in the month of Ramadan every year. Also he would fast for 10 more days the following month. This is practiced by his followers even today, but not a single Jew or Christian does that.

5. I don’t know about the radiated light of Jesus, but for Moses I know. As per our beloved prophet is concerned, he has no shadow. Ask any Muslim, he would tell you. And light doesn’t have shadows around it. And he is the light of faith, and is reflecting the truth of Islam from God.

6. Even Muhammed had a unique relationship with Allah. Remember the story of Isra and Mi’raj.

 

The prophet Moses performed a miracle which changed a stick in to a snake. Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) changed a stick to a sword in a battle

 

The Islamic version of Gabriel put the words in Muhammed's mouth. In the Bible, God Himself appears to the Prophets, in a human-like form. Islam is very different in some ways. This sort of conversation is hard because we believe different things about the Messiah. But, suppose He was sent by God with every Word of God pre-programmed in His mouth because He was the Word of God, living in the flesh. If these un-Islamic beliefs were true, that would seem a distinct fulfillment of this.

 

If it was pre-programmed, then it won’t be putting words in his mouth. That’s like the example of telling you to open and read Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18, which I told before.

If I invent a VCR, I don’t have to become a VCR or I don’t have to beget a VCR in order to tell what is right or wrong. I will just write a user manual. If you want to play, press the play button, if you want to fast forward, press the FF button don’t pull the recorder, it will get damaged, don’t spill water it will get spoiled. The same way, God sent down messengers with clear signs and books.

 

What is the prophecy here? What is being hinted about Muhammed? This could be coincidental.

 

If you read the Hebrew bible of song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16. it reads

 

“hikko mami ttakimm v kulli Muhammad im zahjudy va zah raee baina Jaroo shalam”

 

What I tried was to tell you that, our beloved prophet Muhammed’s name is mentioned by name, in the original scriptures. What you call original, its there.

But the word Jesus, is not mentioned by name once. Christ is not a name, but a designation.

 

Isaiah 40:13

Who has understood the spirit of the LORD, or instructed him as his counselor?

 

Luke 24:46

I will send you what the Father has promised to give you. So wait in the city of Jerusalem until you have been given power from God.'

 

The Holy Spirit was sent by Jesus to his apostles at Pentecost. This was fulfilled already. I'd doubt Muhammed would constitute as an invisible Spirit of God.

 

Whats the point you want to prove here?

 

John 6:14

When those men saw the big work that Jesus did, they said, `Truly, this is the Prophet that is to come into the world.'

 

Yes! Even we believe Jesus is the one that is going to come to this world. That is in his second coming.

 

This sort of conversation, again, is hard.

I give evidences from the bible so it may be an evidence to a Christian. By the way, are you a Roman Catholic? To discuss about crucifixion, I think it will be better to go to the relevant topic. See you there

 

And again, may Allah show you the right path.

 

Peace Vishah

Edited by vishah

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Peace JC Believer,

Nice to see you again

 

Peace vishah,

 

 

Jesus Christ was sent only to Jews as I said before.

Here clearly it says

Saint Mathew chapter 15 verse 24

“ 24.He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of israel."â€

From among them, those who accepted Jesus, were called Christians.

 

In Acts, Jesus selects Paul to be His Apostle to the Gentiles. This Gospel was supposed to be the "new" covenant for all people. It was different than the Torah. The prophets before Christ all reaffirmed the Torah.

 

 

 

Brethren will be brethren whether it is in the time of Moses, Jesus or Muhammad, because kinship doesn’t change according to time. For example, if you are a brother of some person, then you will be his brother, no matter what century it is.
Okay, but tell me. Weren't the Jewish nation of the 1st AD the "brothers" of the Jewish nation of Moses's time? We could say your "brothers" were the Muslims that fought with Muhammed, right?

 

 

Even today, the Arabs are the brethren of the israelites.

1. Even when Muhammad (PBUH) was born, the Arabs used to burry girls alive.

2. Jesus turned water in to red wine? From where did you get the word RED. Islam is the only religion which says don’t even touch alcohol. Today the scientist has discovered that alcohol is a danger to the life, therefore, how can we Muslims even think of accusing Jesus like that? Moreover, Moses turned water in to blood.

3. In the war of Kandaq, the Islamic army faced a shortage of food. Once, they had food, which was sufficient for only one person, but even then an army of 3,000 ate until their stomach was full. This is not a fairy tale.

4. Muhammed (PBUH) was from a desert and he used to fast in the month of Ramadan every year. Also he would fast for 10 more days the following month. This is practiced by his followers even today, but not a single Jew or Christian does that.

5. I don’t know about the radiated light of Jesus, but for Moses I know. As per our beloved prophet is concerned, he has no shadow. Ask any Muslim, he would tell you. And light doesn’t have shadows around it. And he is the light of faith, and is reflecting the truth of Islam from God.

6. Even Muhammed had a unique relationship with Allah. Remember the story of Isra and Mi’raj.

 

The prophet Moses performed a miracle which changed a stick in to a snake. Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) changed a stick to a sword in a battle

 

The problem with this discussion is, that you don't believe these things about Jesus and I don't believe all these things about Muhammed! But the "slaughter of the innocence" was a specific event, not a cultural phenomena, that occured when Jesus and Moses were infants.

 

Okay, but 40 days! That's significant. Moses and Jesus fasted for 40 days.

 

Red wine is actually very good for the health. It's rich in anti-oxidants and stuff.

 

Why did Gabriel give Muhammed the Quran? In the Bible, God appears to His Prophets, and gave Moses the Torah.

 

 

If it was pre-programmed, then it won’t be putting words in his mouth. That’s like the example of telling you to open and read Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18, which I told before.

If I invent a VCR, I don’t have to become a VCR or I don’t have to beget a VCR in order to tell what is right or wrong. I will just write a user manual. If you want to play, press the play button, if you want to fast forward, press the FF button don’t pull the recorder, it will get damaged, don’t spill water it will get spoiled. The same way, God sent down messengers with clear signs and books.

But if Christ was the "Word of God made flesh", that would, in theory, make him a better candidate for this Prophet. Because that would imply that every word Jesus spoke was God's Word.

 

 

If you read the Hebrew bible of song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16. it reads

 

“hikko mami ttakimm v kulli Muhammad im zahjudy va zah raee baina Jaroo shalamâ€

 

What I tried was to tell you that, our beloved prophet Muhammed’s name is mentioned by name, in the original scriptures. What you call original, its there.

But the word Jesus, is not mentioned by name once. Christ is not a name, but a designation.

 

I meant, what special message is being conveyed about Muhammed? How do you know this isn't a coincidence? Prophecies about Jesus tell us that he rides into Jerusalem on a donkey, that 30 pieces of silver payed to betray him, things like this. Events are given that are fulfilled, that's what a prophecy is.

 

Jesus comes from the Greek word for Yeshuah, which means "God is Salvation". The prophets affirm that God is our salvation!

 

 

Whats the point you want to prove here?
Jesus was referring to the Holy Spirit, not Muhammed...that is if you want to use the full context of the NT.

 

 

Yes! Even we believe Jesus is the one that is going to come to this world. That is in his second coming.

I give evidences from the bible so it may be an evidence to a Christian. By the way, are you a Roman Catholic? To discuss about crucifixion, I think it will be better to go to the relevant topic. See you there

 

And again, may Allah show you the right path.

 

Peace Vishah

 

That verse was important, because people believed Jesus was "the Prophet", the figure we were just taking about. Christians believe that Jesus was the Messiah AND the Prophet. Clever, isn't it? That the Messiah was the final Prophet too.

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Peace vishah,

In Acts, Jesus selects Paul to be His Apostle to the Gentiles. This Gospel was supposed to be the "new" covenant for all people. It was different than the Torah. The prophets before Christ all reaffirmed the Torah.

 

According to the OT, there is no new covenant. Muhammed also reaffirms the Torah and the Gospel, the ones given to Moses and Jesus of course.

 

Okay, but 40 days! That's significant. Moses and Jesus fasted for 40 days.

 

The Prophet fasted for more than 40 days. He is the only in this nation for whom fasting past the setting of the sun is not unlawful. Fasting for days without an end is also forbidden to us, but to the Prophet it was allowed.

 

Red wine is actually very good for the health. It's rich in anti-oxidants and stuff.

 

We are not looking for things, which are healthy to you. We want to know what is religiously lawful or unlawful.

 

Why did Gabriel give Muhammed the Quran? In the Bible, God appears to His Prophets, and gave Moses the Torah.

 

The Angel Gabriel is the one who gives the Revelation to the Prophets.

 

 

 

But if Christ was the "Word of God made flesh", that would, in theory, make him a better candidate for this Prophet. Because that would imply that every word Jesus spoke was God's Word.

 

Every word that the Prophet Muhammed spoke was also God's.

 

I meant, what special message is being conveyed about Muhammed? How do you know this isn't a coincidence? Prophecies about Jesus tell us that he rides into Jerusalem on a donkey, that 30 pieces of silver payed to betray him, things like this. Events are given that are fulfilled, that's what a prophecy is.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&showtopic=37153&view=findpost&p=395201"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&sh...st&p=395201[/url]

 

Jesus comes from the Greek word for Yeshuah, which means "God is Salvation". The prophets affirm that God is our salvation!

 

God is our salvation, there is no doubt about that.

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like u r askin y a prophet after jesus christ ?

 

the same question jews asked y jesus christ after malachi

 

According to Jewish tradition, there were no more prophets after 420 BC/BCE, Malachi being the last prophet, who lived centuries before Jesus. Judaism states that Jesus did not fulfill the requirements set by the Torah to prove that he was a prophet. Even if Jesus had produced such a sign, Judaism states that no prophet or dreamer can contradict the laws already stated in the Torah (Deut 13:1–5)[86]

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Brother Younes Ibn Abd' al-Aziz had explained it well. May Allah reward you. Here I would like to add to what you have not touched.

But if Christ was the "Word of God made flesh", that would, in theory, make him a better candidate for this Prophet. Because that would imply that every word Jesus spoke was God's Word.

 

read the gospel of 1John Chapter 4 verse 3

 

"Hereby know ye the spirit of God. Every spirit that confessth that Jesus christ, is come in flesh of God."

 

Now read in the Quran in Surathul Al imran chapter 3 verse 45

45. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.

In the Quran, prophet Jesus is honored as

1- Isa Ibn Maryam (Jesus the son of Mary)

2- As saliheen (The righteous)

3-Kalimathu llah ( Word of God)

4-Ruhullah (Spirit of God)

5-Masihullah (Christ of God)

etc....

 

Jesus was referring to the Holy Spirit, not Muhammed...that is if you want to use the full context of the NT.

What you were trying to tell was, he was referring to Holy Ghost.

 

Listen, the coming of the comforter was conditional whereas the Holy Ghost was not as what we see in the prophecy.

 

John chapter 16 verse 7

" Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is expedient for you that I go for. If I go not away, the comforter will not come unto you, but If I go I will send him unto you."

 

If I go not away, the comforter will not come unto you, but If I go I will send him

There are numerous instances in the Bible, about the coming of the Holy Ghost before the birth and departure of Christ.

B.C

 

luke chapter 1 verse 15

15For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

 

luke chapter 1 verse 41

41And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

 

luke cgapter 1 verse 67

67And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

 

A.C

luke chapter 2 verse 25

25And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

 

luke chapter 3 verse 22

22And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him,

 

Mathew chapter 12 verse 28

28But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

 

John chapter 20 verse 21-22

21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.(the disciples of Jesus)

 

22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

 

So if the holy Ghost was with

1-John the Baptist

2-Elizabeth

3-Zacharias

4-Simeon

5-Jesus

6-The Disciples of Jesus

then it sounds nonsense of saying . "If I go not away, the comforter will not come unto you, but If I go I will send him"

 

That verse was important, because people believed Jesus was "the Prophet", the figure we were just taking about. Christians believe that Jesus was the Messiah AND the Prophet. Clever, isn't it? That the Messiah was the final Prophet too.

Muslims also believe Jesus was the Messiah, but we dont believe in the begotten son of God, because begtting is an animal act. It belongs to lower function of sex. therefore, our belief towards Jesus is more clean and clever than yours.

Edited by vishah

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Christianity and Islam are both from Allah (God)

 

If you are Christian your prophet is Isa (Jesus)

 

If you are Muslim your prophet is Muhammad.

 

However, as soon as Islam was revealed to the prophet Muhammad (saw) from that moment Christianity is thrown out the window. From that moment people should have stopped following Christianity and started following Islam. This does not mean that we do not hold Isa (Jesus) in high esteem HOWEVER the emphasis is on the prophet Muhammad (saw) because he is the "founder" of Islam (the final, perfect religion)

 

Before Islam came about, all the attention would have been on Jesus son of Mary. But as Allah promised, a new prophet was brought to the world - the prophet Muhammad (saw)

 

I can understand why you would find this hard to understand, but please reflect on what I have said.

 

The prophet Muhammad (saw) was the seal of the prophets.

Islam is the seal of religions (I hope you can understand that)

 

 

Mehmet

Edited by Righteous

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like u r askin y a prophet after jesus christ ?

 

the same question jews asked y jesus christ after malachi

 

According to Jewish tradition, there were no more prophets after 420 BC/BCE, Malachi being the last prophet, who lived centuries before Jesus. Judaism states that Jesus did not fulfill the requirements set by the Torah to prove that he was a prophet. Even if Jesus had produced such a sign, Judaism states that no prophet or dreamer can contradict the laws already stated in the Torah (Deut 13:1–5)[86]

 

Christianity and Islam are both from Allah (God)

 

If you are Christian your prophet is Isa (Jesus)

 

If you are Muslim your prophet is Muhammad.

 

However, as soon as Islam was revealed to the prophet Muhammad (saw) from that moment Christianity is thrown out the window. From that moment people should have stopped following Christianity and started following Islam. This does not mean that we do not hold Isa (Jesus) in high esteem HOWEVER the emphasis is on the prophet Muhammad (saw) because he is the "founder" of Islam (the final, perfect religion)

 

Before Islam came about, all the attention would have been on Jesus son of Mary. But as Allah promised, a new prophet was brought to the world - the prophet Muhammad (saw)

 

I can understand why you would find this hard to understand, but please reflect on what I have said.

 

The prophet Muhammad (saw) was the seal of the prophets.

Islam is the seal of religions (I hope you can understand that)

Mehmet

 

God never promised someone would come after Jesus. If any of the Prophets spoke of a future figure, it was the Messiah. The Messiah, the Anointed One of God, was supposed to be the savior of mankind. That's what we generally think of the word "messiah".

 

God had an old revelation for the Jews, and then gave a new revelation for the world through the Messiah. I mean, that's the perfect plan, isn't it??

 

 

read the gospel of 1John Chapter 4 verse 3

 

"Hereby know ye the spirit of God. Every spirit that confessth that Jesus christ, is come in flesh of God."

 

Now read in the Quran in Surathul Al imran chapter 3 verse 45

45. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.

In the Quran, prophet Jesus is honored as

1- Isa Ibn Maryam (Jesus the son of Mary)

2- As saliheen (The righteous)

3-Kalimathu llah ( Word of God)

4-Ruhullah (Spirit of God)

5-Masihullah (Christ of God)

etc....

 

If you believe that Jesus was the Spirit of God, doesn't that challenge your concept of God's singular nature?

 

 

So if the holy Ghost was with

1-John the Baptist

2-Elizabeth

3-Zacharias

4-Simeon

5-Jesus

6-The Disciples of Jesus

then it sounds nonsense of saying . "If I go not away, the comforter will not come unto you, but If I go I will send him"

The Holy Spirit also comes up many times in the OT. But what Jesus promised the Apostles did occur at Pentecost and the Spirit was active in the early Church in Acts. God promised to send us His Spirit to remain with His Church, starting with the Apostles. That's what Jesus was talking about and that's what happened. Muhammed wouldn't fit the descriptions Jesus made of the Advocate, only the Holy Spirit fits those descriptions.

 

 

Muslims also believe Jesus was the Messiah, but we dont believe in the begotten son of God, because begtting is an animal act. It belongs to lower function of sex. therefore, our belief towards Jesus is more clean and clever than yours.

 

Jesus wasn't God's Son in the sense that Hercules was Zeus's son. Jesus was a preexistent divine King, and the future King who will rule mankind. He has the attributes of God and is one in nature with God, and came to earth as a man (God the son of man). But this is far from a blasphemous, insulting belief and doesn't negate from God's unity and authority.

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If you believe that Jesus was the Spirit of God, doesn't that challenge your concept of God's singular nature?

 

Jesus(pbuh) is not the spirit of God, he is a spirit from God, brother vishah made a mistake.

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Prophet after Christ

 

In Gospel of John 1:19-21 we read

"And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No."

We notice that there are three distinct prophecies here: 1) Elias, 2) Jesus Christ , 3) That prophet. The Jews were not waiting for two prophecies, but three. This can be further clarified by reading

John 1:25

"And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be:

a) not that Christ, B) nor Elias, c) neither that prophet?"

"That prophet" can not apply to any prophet before the time of Jesus Christ (peace and blessings of God be upon him) because at the time of Jesus christ (peace and blessings of God be upon him) the Jews were still waiting for all three because they did not accept Jesus (peace and blessings of God be upon him) as Christ .

 

Deuteronomy 18:18-19

" I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."

 

The emphasis is on the words "From among their brethren." Moses and his people, the Jews, are here addressed as a racial entity, as a whole, and as such their brethren would undoubtedly be the Ishmaelites i.e. Arabs.

 

 

 

 

Let us read further In chapter 14 , verse 16 of Gospel of John we read the word ‘Paraclete’ translated as Helper , Advocate , Counsellor and Comforter in various translations .

 

King James Version translates this verse as :

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him….

New King James Version translates the verse as :

16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him;

The New Revised Standard Version translates the verse as:

And I will ask the Father and He will give you another Advocate, to be with you forever. This is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive... (John 14: 16 -- 17)

The New English Version translates the verse thus:

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counsellor to be with you forever-- the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him... (John 14: 16 -- 17)

The word "Paraclete" ("Ho Parakletos" in Greek). Parakletos in Greek is originally interpreted as "an advocate", one who pleads the cause of another, one who councils or advises another from deep concern for the other's welfare

John 16:7-14

But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.

 

Some people might confuse Spirit of Truth with Holy Ghost or better word for it which is Holy Spirit which is close to the original word "Holy pneuma." Which is root word for spirit .

John 14:26 is the only verse of the Bible which associates the Parakletos with the Holy Spirit. But if we were to go back to the "ancient manuscripts" themselves, we would find that they are not all in agreement that the "Parakletos" is the Holy Spirit in that verse

We can see the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost was already at that time and with prophets before.

1 Samuel 11:6

"Then he remembered the days of old, moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?"

Isaiah 63:11

"For he (John the Baptist) shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb."

Luke 1:15

"And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee."

Luke 1:35

"And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost"

Luke 1:41

"And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,"

Luke 1:67

"And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him."

Now lets go back to John 14:16 and notice the words "another Paraclete." If the comforter is the Holy Ghost then how many Holy Ghost's are there? The word "another" is significant. In English, "another" may mean "One more of the same kind" or "one more of a different kind." However, if "One more of the same kind" was what was intended then this is positive proof that the coming Paraclete would be just like Jesus (peace and blessings of God be upon him), a human being and a prophet, not a ghost. The Holy Ghost which has being interpreted as archangel Gabriel was with all prophets before Jesus (peace and blessings of God be upon him), and was also present with Jesus during his time and also with prophet Mohammed (peace and blessings of God be upon him), who bought down the revelations. Prophet Mohammed (peace and blessings of God be upon him) did glorify Jesus(peace and blessings of God be upon him) and spoke the truth about him raising him and his mother to higher rank where false allegations were made about Jesus (peace and blessings of God be upon him) . He guided mankind into all truth and he is abiding with us today also with his teachings and revelation of God i.e. the last testament Quran.

 

Translation Quran 16: 101-102

“Say: 'The Holy Spirit brought it down from your Lord in truth to reassure the faithful, a guidance and a glad tiding for those that submit'…..

Translation Quran 2: 97

Say (O Prophet): 'Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel -- as it is he who revealed it on your heart according to God's directions, confirming the previous scriptures, a guidance and glad tidings for those who believe....'.

Translation Quran 53:3-4

"Nor does he (Muhammad) speak of his own desire. It is but an Inspiration that is inspired [unto him]"

 

 

 

Deuteronomy 33:1

"And this [is] the blessing, wherewith moses the man of God blessed the children of israel before his death. And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand [went] a fiery law for them."

 

fig8. on (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislamawareness(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Mib/ch6_10.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislamawareness(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Mib/ch6_10.html[/url]

Fig. 8 The succession of the prophets of God, like the rising sun.

This is a chronological succession of prophets which is narrated through reference to location (see Fig. 8). This prophesy is reported at the end of Deuteronomy in association with the story of the death of prophet Moses (peace and blessings of God be upon him). It was a blessing and glad tidings bestowed by prophet Moses upon his followers just prior to his death. It was designed to give his followers hope upon the occasion of the passing of their prophet that God is not abandoning them, rather, the best is yet to come, and He shall continue to bless mankind with His guidance and His light.

 

Please visit (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislamawareness(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Mib/"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislamawareness(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Mib/[/url] to find out about prophet after christ

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Well, I think I did not say Jesus was a spirit of God. Any how, if I had said it in anywhere in this forum, then it is a mistake. Thanks brother Younes for clarifying him that doubt.

 

I quoted a verse in the bible, which says

 

gospel of 1 John Chapter 4 verse 3

 

"Hereby know ye the spirit of God. Every spirit that confessth that Jesus christ, is come in flesh of God."

 

 

Here, what my point was to assure to you that the prophet Muhammed (PBUH), confirmed that Jesus was sent down as a prophet, and he was the christ ,etc... I quoted the verse in the quran in Surathul Al Imran chapter 3 verse 45. And I gave you examples from the quran itself, which honers Jesus Christ.

 

Why I had to tell you this? you may wonder. You will get the answer, if you read what I quoted from you in the beginning.

 

Jesus wasn't God's Son in the sense that Hercules was Zeus's son.

Even, then, some of the sects of the Christians believe that Jesus was the begotten son of God.

Metaphorically, we all are the children of God, the good and the bad, because he created all of us. Again, not in the sense, that we all are the begotten son of God, not gods in human form and not gods incarnated.

Edited by vishah

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Well, I think I did not say Jesus was a spirit of God. Any how, if I had said it in anywhere in this forum, then it is a mistake. Thanks brother Younes for clarifying him that doubt.

 

I quoted a verse in the bible, which says

 

gospel of 1 John Chapter 4 verse 3

 

"Hereby know ye the spirit of God. Every spirit that confessth that Jesus christ, is come in flesh of God."

Here, what my point was to assure to you that the prophet Muhammed (PBUH), confirmed that Jesus was sent down as a prophet, and he was the christ ,etc... I quoted the verse in the quran in Surathul Al Imran chapter 3 verse 45. And I gave you examples from the quran itself, which honers Jesus Christ.

 

Why I had to tell you this? you may wonder. You will get the answer, if you read what I quoted from you in the beginning.

 

Muhammed hasn't confessed that Jesus was God coming in the flesh, or recognized Jesus in the same way as the early Christian community. He comes, in fact, with a different religion than the one taught to us.

 

Galatians 1:

8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed!

9 As we have said before, and now I say again, if anyone preaches to you a gospel other than the one that you received, let that one be accursed!

 

 

Even, then, some of the sects of the Christians believe that Jesus was the begotten son of God.

Metaphorically, we all are the children of God, the good and the bad, because he created all of us. Again, not in the sense, that we all are the begotten son of God, not gods in human form and not gods incarnated.

 

No Christian believes that Jesus was "begotten" in a crude sense like Zeus begot Hercules.

We are all sons of God. So the "Son" of God imples "God as a Son of Man". Jesus calls Himself the "Son of Man". That's an odd way to refer to oneself unless it had the meaning I defined.

 

 

 

mac111,

 

John 6:14

When those men saw the big work that Jesus did, they said, `Truly, this is the Prophet that is to come into the world.'

 

Jesus was the Messiah and the Prophet.

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Galatians 1:

8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed!

9 As we have said before, and now I say again, if anyone preaches to you a gospel other than the one that you received, let that one be accursed!

Even we muslims agree to that. We believe in the Gospel sent down to Jesus and to what he used to preach, not in what was written by someone else according to someone, after centuries. For the discussion of bible being the word of God ==> (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=30080"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=30080[/url]

 

The Quran fulfills that which was revealed beforeit and also acts as a gurdian over it. Pointing out, where necessary, the perversion of its text or meaning by those who professed to follow it.

Surathul Maida chapter 5 verse 49

"48. To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;"

 

No Christian believes that Jesus was "begotten" in a crude sense like Zeus begot Hercules.

We are all sons of God. So the "Son" of God imples "God as a Son of Man". Jesus calls Himself the "Son of Man". That's an odd way to refer to oneself unless it had the meaning I defined.

The thing I know is that christians do beleive in the begotten son. and there are some who believe it in that way. Ok may be you dont believe it like Muslims, but could u explain me in what sense do u believe in it?

 

Jesus was the Messiah and the Prophet.

 

 

Islam, is the only non- christian faith, which makes it an article, for its followers to believe in Jesus. No muslim, is a muslim if he does not believe in Jesus.We believe that Jesus was the Messiah and a prophet. We believe that he healed those born blind and leapers with God's permission, and rose the dead with God's permission. We believe that God gave Jesus the Gospel,and taught him the Torah and Wisdom. The only difference, is that we dont believe that he is the begotten son, not God incarnate, and not God in Human form.

We are going together. Moreover, it is very nice to see you saying LIKE A MUSLIM that Jesus was the Messiah and the Prophet.

 

May Allah show you the right path

Brother Vishah

Edited by vishah

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QUOTE(JCBeliever [at] Feb 5 2007, 08:11 AM)

 

We are all sons of God. So the "Son" of God imples "God as a Son of Man". Jesus calls Himself the "Son of Man". That's an odd way to refer to oneself unless it had the meaning I defined.

 

here we go again :sl:

 

Correction : We all are children of Adam and Even ..... including all prophets abraham,.....,jesus,mohamed. We all are SERVANTS of God not SONS of God...

 

READ DIFFERENCES IN TRANSLATION

 

King James Version

Acts 3:25 - Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God

 

made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the

 

kindreds of the earth be blessed.

 

Acts 3:26 - Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him

 

to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

 

 

New King James Version

Acts 3:25 You are the sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made

 

with our fathers, saying to Abraham, 'And in your seed all the families of the

 

earth shall be blessed.

 

 

Acts 3:26 - To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent

 

Him to bless you, in turning every one of you away from his iniquities.

 

In the KJV, we find that Jesus is God's Son. In the NKJV, we find that He is

 

God's servant. These are clearly not the same! The Greek word found in the text

 

here is "pais". It can be used in Greek for either "son" or "servant."

 

 

So which one is correct here?

 

The solution is simple: look at the context in which it is used. In

 

English, we have many words that can have more than one meaning. If a translator,

 

going from English to another language, came across the word "bear," he would

 

have a choice of meanings. But it wouldn't take rocket science to figure out

 

which one to use.

 

If the passage described a man with a heavy burden, the translator would

 

understand that the man is going to "bear," or "carry" the burden. If, on the

 

other hand, the passage described a hairy beast climbing a tree, the translator

 

would understand the correct meaning here applies to a forest-dwelling animal

 

that will eat nearly anything it finds. It's not really very hard.

 

Now look at the Bible passage above. What is being discussed?

 

"children of the prophets"

"covenant which God made with our fathers"

"in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed."

It's clear, isn't it? The passage is talking about "children," and "fathers" and

 

"seed." The word "pais" means "son." But the New King James translators chose

 

"servant." Why? They were not alone. The New World Translation, created by the

 

Jehovah's Witnesses who deny the deity of Jesus, translated this word "servant"

 

also. So do the NIV, ASV, NASB and other modern Bible translations.

 

Could it be that these modern translators disagree that "pais" can be

 

translated "son?" No, the NKJV committee translates this very word as "boy,"

 

"child" or "son" in Matthew 2:16; 17:18; 21:15; Luke 2:43; 9:42; and John 4:51.

 

Yet they refused to translate the word as "son" in this powerful sermon where

 

Peter presents Jesus as Messiah and Son of God.

 

One has to ask, why were these translators so determined to deny the deity of

 

Jesus in this passage?

 

All of mankind are the servants of God and children of Adam.

 

Matthew 12:18: "Behold my servant, whom I have chosen."

Acts 3:13(RSV): "The God of Abraham, and of Isaac,.... hath glorified his servant

 

Jesus."

Acts 4:27(RSV): "For of a truth against thy holy servant Jesus, whom thou hast

 

anointed...."

 

The Actual Greek word used is "pias" or "paida" which mean; "servant, child, son,

 

manservant." Some translations of the Bible, such as the popular King James

 

Version, have translated this word as "Son" when it is attributed to Jesus (pbuh)

 

and "servant" for most everyone else, while more recent translations of the Bible

 

such as the Revised Standard Version (RSV) now honestly translate it as

 

"servant." As we shall see in later chapters, the RSV was compiled by thirty two

 

Biblical scholars of the highest eminence, backed by 50 cooperating Christian

 

denominations from the "most" ancient Biblical manuscripts available to them

 

today. Chances are that no matter what your church or denomination you are able

 

to name, that church took part in the correction of the King James Version of the

 

Bible which resulted in the RSV.

 

The exact same word "pias" is attributed to Jacob(israel) in Luke 1:54 and

 

translated as "servant":

 

"He hath helped his servant israel, in remembrance of his mercy;."

 

It is also applied to King David in Luke 1:69, and once again, it is translated

 

as "servant":

 

"....the house of his servant David;" (also see Acts 4:25).

 

However, when it is applied to Jesus (e.g. Acts 3:13, Acts 4:27), NOW it is

 

translated as "Son." (notice that it is not only translated as "son" but as

 

"Son".) Why the double standard? Why the dishonest translation techniques which

 

changes ENTIRE CONCEPT ?

 

 

As we've seen above, in Hebrew, "Son of God" can also be translated as "Servant

 

of God", which literally means "Abdallah" in Arabic. Abd = Servant, and Allah =

 

Allah, or the Supreme GOD Almighty that is above all . So, Jesus being called

 

"Son of God" does not mean anything about him being part of GOD or GOD Almighty

 

Himself. It simply means "Servant of God" since Jesus existed among Jews and

 

preached the Gospel to them.

 

Jesus clearly was the Servant of GOD Almighty as Islam claims. Jesus was the

 

Jews' Messiah and Leader, and Allah Almighty's Messenger to them. But he was not

 

part of GOD Almighty, nor His son.

 

lets see what God says in his last testament , quran now....

 

translation quran 2:116

And yet some people assert, "God has taken unto Himself a son!" Limitless is He

 

in His glory! Nay, but His is all that is in the heavens and on earth; all things

 

devoutly obey His will.

 

pretty clear :sl:

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Even we muslims agree to that. We believe in the Gospel sent down to Jesus and to what he used to preach, not in what was written by someone else according to someone, after centuries. For the discussion of bible being the word of God ==> (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=30080"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=30080[/url]

 

The Quran fulfills that which was revealed beforeit and also acts as a gurdian over it. Pointing out, where necessary, the perversion of its text or meaning by those who professed to follow it.

Surathul Maida chapter 5 verse 49

"48. To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;"

 

What was your Injil supposed to have said? "Injil" comes from the Greek "Evangel", which means "Good News" like "gospel". Jesus Himself was the Injil, right? It was to be about Jesus's life and mission to be our Messiah.

 

 

The thing I know is that christians do beleive in the begotten son. and there are some who believe it in that way. Ok may be you dont believe it like Muslims, but could u explain me in what sense do u believe in it?

 

A section of the Nicene Creed reads "Light from Light. True God from True God. Eternally begotten of the Father."

In Christianity, and in the Bible, Jesus was preexistent, preeminent, and was one-in-being with the Father since eternity. That's what "eternally begotten" means. It's definitely one of the more complicated theological concepts.

 

So, for the Quran to imply that Christians put a mere man as a partner to God isn't a true statment. God is God's own partner. Jesus came to earth through the virgin birth, the only way for Him to come to earth, as a son of man. Jesus refers to Himself as the Son of Man. And a man is sometimes called a "son" of God. If you created a race of intelligent beings, they'd be your "children". So Jesus as the Son of God is more or less referring to Him being human and God at the same time. The only example of this, the only Son of God.

 

God exists as a united being, but manifests Himself in three Personalities in the Christian religion. God has full authority and unity and is unchallenged but can exist as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Believe it or not, your concept of God isn't very different from mine. God is just manifested in three Persons!

 

 

Islam, is the only non- christian faith, which makes it an article, for its followers to believe in Jesus. No muslim, is a muslim if he does not believe in Jesus.We believe that Jesus was the Messiah and a prophet. We believe that he healed those born blind and leapers with God's permission, and rose the dead with God's permission. We believe that God gave Jesus the Gospel,and taught him the Torah and Wisdom. The only difference, is that we dont believe that he is the begotten son, not God incarnate, and not God in Human form.

We are going together. Moreover, it is very nice to see you saying LIKE A MUSLIM that Jesus was the Messiah and the Prophet.

 

May Allah show you the right path

Brother Vishah

 

Do you believe that Jesus was convinced He was going to die for our sins? I know you believe God rescued him, but did Jesus believe that God would rescue Him?

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Jesus refers to Himself as the Son of Man. And a man is sometimes called a "son" of God. If you created a race of intelligent beings, they'd be your "children". So Jesus as the Son of God is more or less referring to Him being human and God at the same time. The only example of this, the only Son of God.

 

 

son .........son...son............

...???? i gave u long explanation dear friend but still u dont understand

 

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