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anthony19832005

Germany Issues Arrest Order For Cia Agents

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Franklin probably never pictured hundreds of thousands of Americans killing each other in a Civil War, but it happened.

...

 

 

 

Yeah, so that's what I think I was getting at. I live in Philadelphia, the home of Franklin. I'm quite aware of his philosophies. Like I said earlier, while they were noble and relevant for his age, they're a bit out-dated and can't be applied to todays world. In Franklins day, bloodletting was considered cutting edge medicine. We know a little better now.

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Peace

 

In Franklins day, bloodletting was considered cutting edge medicine. We know a little better now.

 

Murder is still murder, torture is still torture, and illegal detentions without a fair trial are still wrong.

 

Salaams

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Peace

Murder is still murder,

Sure is.

torture is still torture,

Sure is. But getting barked at, wearing an israeli flag, being 'baptized', getting lap dances, or 'fluids smeared on your face ISN'T torture.

 

and illegal detentions without a fair trial are still wrong.

 

While from time to time, the U.S. does make mistakes, the vast majority of those guys are right where they need to be. According to international law, 'enemy combatants' and P.O.W.s' don't get trials. Like I said earlier, these guys caught on the battlefield could have been shot.

Edited by tech diver

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Peace

 

Like I said earlier, these guys caught on the battlefield could have been shot.

 

You fail to notice that many of the people captured at guantanamo were taxi drivers, or people arrested from tips. At the time of capture many of them did not have any weapons on them or whatever.

 

Salaams

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Yeah, so that's what I think I was getting at. I live in Philadelphia, the home of Franklin. I'm quite aware of his philosophies. Like I said earlier, while they were noble and relevant for his age, they're a bit out-dated and can't be applied to todays world. In Franklins day, bloodletting was considered cutting edge medicine. We know a little better now.

 

It is a dangerous direction we're heading when we start to call to founding ideals of our country "outdated". I hope you understand.

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It is a dangerous direction we're heading when we start to call to founding ideals of our country "outdated"...

 

 

 

 

Everything written 230 years ago can't all be relevant today. I think it's an impossiblity. That's why there are amendments to the Constitution. Things that weren't even thought of by the founding fathers need to be added. Don't get me wrong, these guys were geniuses. But even geniuses can't accurately look into the future with total accuracy. The thing needs to be 'dynamic'. They did do a pretty good job, though. Besides, protection offered by the Constitution is afforded to Americans, not foriegn terrorists. :sl:

Edited by tech diver

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Peace

 

You fail to notice that many of the people captured at guantanamo were taxi drivers, or people arrested from tips. At the time of capture many of them did not have any weapons on them or whatever.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Edited by anthony19832005

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I still find most of their beliefs extremely relevant.

 

Why fight if you destroy the thing you are fighting for?

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Peace

You fail to notice that many of the people captured at guantanamo were taxi drivers, or people arrested from tips. At the time of capture many of them did not have any weapons on them or whatever.Salaams

 

 

 

 

Like I said earlier, the U.S. DOES make mistakes from time to time. But some would have you think that there isn't a taxi driver left in the M.E. I still think the overwhelming majority are right where they need to be. Besides, even a terrorist needs a day job. :sl:

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Peace

the U.S. DOES make mistakes from time to time

 

So you think its ok to use these kind of kidnapping tactics, and then sort them out afterwards? This is wrong....you do not need to become the monster which you are fighting.

 

Salaams

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Peace

So you think its ok to use these kind of kidnapping tactics, and then sort them out afterwards?

 

The benefits gained by 'grabbing' people, getting these terrorists off the streets and the info extracted far outweigh the

'negative' aspect of once in a blue moon grabbing the wrong guy. Just my opinion. But you haven't seen any more attacks in the U.S.

 

This is wrong....you do not need to become the monster which you are fighting.

 

Maybe not. But sometime you have to 'stoop' a little. Like I posted earlier, at least the people the U.S. takes are still alive. One day they will go home.

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Peace

 

Like I posted earlier, at least the people the U.S. takes are still alive.

 

What about all the secret prisons in which people are tortured and even killed by the CIA? What did (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Maher_Arar"]THIS MAN[/url] do to deserve getting tortured and kept in a virtual grave for 1 year ??

 

Salaams

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Since u r ok with kidnappin ppl, is it ok for others to do the same to US citizens.. can Iran do that?
:sl:

An eye-for-an-eye, is Justice!

 

Since they have the CIA & Special Forces, etc, hunting "enemy combatants, it's only fair & right that Muslim nations hunt down those homicidal maniacs.

 

That's the only language these cowboys understand. Just send those pyschotic-assassins to an Islamic Gitmo, and treat the exactly the same way Muslims are being treated in their prisons.

 

Give them taste a dose of their own medicine...

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Peace

 

Muslim nations hunt down those homicidal maniacs.
The "muslim nations" are actually too busy doing the torturing on behalf of the CIA. (Arar was tortured in Syria for example)

 

Just send those pyschotic-assassins to an Islamic Gitmo, and treat the exactly the same way Muslims are being treated in their prisons.

 

Too bad Allah(swt) prohibits us from torturing people. ("whomever tortures people in this world, Allah(swt) will torture them in the hereafter")

 

Salaams

Edited by anthony19832005

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:sl:

... Just send those pyschotic-assassins to an Islamic Gitmo, and treat the exactly the same way Muslims are being treated in their prisons.Give them taste a dose of their own medicine...

 

 

 

 

The terrorists do much better than that. They saw their captives head off and play it on the internet. Or just shoot them in the back of the head, like the last incident. Should the U.S. 'give them taste a dose of their own medicine ?'(I think I know what he's trying to say. )

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...Too bad Allah(swt) prohibits us from torturing people...

 

 

 

 

That doesn't seem to stop the terrorists.

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That doesn't seem to stop the terrorists.

 

Was the German man who was caught by the CIA here a terrorist? Was he caught in the battlefield?

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Was the German man who was caught by the CIA here a terrorist? Was he caught in the battlefield?

 

 

 

No. I said earlier the U.S. does make mistakes. But the overwhelming majority of those guys are right were they belong. (please read back a few posts so I don't have to keep repeating myself ) The U.S. has actually caught guys that they had let go earlier. They went right back and did the same thing that got them to Gitmo in the first place. Should the U.S. have shot the guys that they did catch on the battlefield ?

Edited by tech diver

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No. I said earlier the U.S. does make mistakes.

 

So was the capture of this German man another US mistake?

 

But the overwhelming majority of those guys are right were they belong.
The people caught are not even tried in a court. There's no official review of evidence on whether they're involved in any terrorist activities.

 

Noone knows why they are caught other than a few allegations on secret documents of US intelligence services.

 

The U.S. has actually caught guys that they had let go earlier. They went right back and did the same thing that got them to Gitmo in the first place.

 

Care to list some examples?

 

Should the U.S. have shot the guys that they did catch on the battlefield ?

 

First off, I didn't know Macedonia, where the German man was captured, was a battlefield...

 

Secondly, unless you know the person is planning or about to commit a terror attack on US citizens, then no...

 

P.S. It's hard to take your views seriously when you're using pink fonts...

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So was the capture of this German man another US mistake?

 

The people caught are not even tried in a court. There's no official review of evidence on whether they're involved in any terrorist activities.

 

Noone knows why they are caught other than a few allegations on secret documents of US intelligence services.

Care to list some examples?

First off, I didn't know Macedonia, where the German man was captured, was a battlefield...

 

Secondly, unless you know the person is planning or about to commit a terror attack on US citizens, then no...

 

P.S. It's hard to take your views seriously when you're using pink fonts...

 

 

 

 

Are you following what has been said in previous posts ? You're going over stuff thats been discussed already. Go back and read all the posts and come back. I'm not going to keep repeating myself over and over again.

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P.S. It's hard to take your views seriously when you're using pink fonts...

 

 

 

 

What does the color have to do with anything ? Try to focus on what's being said. Better ?

Edited by tech diver

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An eye-for-an-eye, is Justice!

 

Since they have the CIA & Special Forces, etc, hunting "enemy combatants, it's only fair & right that Muslim nations hunt down those homicidal maniacs.

 

That's the only language these cowboys understand. Just send those pyschotic-assassins to an Islamic Gitmo, and treat the exactly the same way Muslims are being treated in their prisons.

 

Give them taste a dose of their own medicine...

 

An eye for an eye. How primitive.

 

You're obviously not a Ghandi fan. You may know the expression "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind?" Then again, maybe Ghandi's idea's are obsolete just like Ben Franklin's. After all, perpetuating violence in more brutal and cruel forms than your opponents has worked so well in the past...

 

I won't harp about this too much though, because you obviously wrote it in a fit of pique. If you had been more level headed, you would have noticed that Mansoor Ansari's question was meant point out the irony and injustice inherent in Tech Divers opinion. Which is why he didn't talk about special forces or CIA operatives; he talked about abducting and torturing US citizens. Unless you have nothing but utter contempt for your fellow Americans, I think it's safe to say that torturing US citizens is a bad thing, right?

 

I know you hate imperialism and all of that, but it would be nice to see atleast minimal respect for the people that put their lives on the line for the sake of yours. Special Forces is not full of "Homicidal Assassins". It is an elite unit, nothing more. Of course, if you consider all armed forces to be homicidal assassins, that's a whole different matter. If so, I will wait for the day when you celebrate the torture and death of an Iraqi "Freedom Fighter". Maybe one of the one's who tried to blow themselves up in the marketplace...

 

p.s. I wrote this in a fit of pique, so we're even...

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That doesn't seem to stop the terrorists.

 

Those who go against Allah(swt)'s laws will be punished, if not in this world then in the hereafter.

 

Salaams

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I agree with that in part. But today, it is possible the whole world could end in one fell stroke. And the dynamics and complexities of todays living are out of Franklins scope. I don't think Franklin even dreamed of a building 1000 feet tall, let alone people flying planes into them.

 

Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it.

 

George Orwell

 

something to think about

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