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sarahH.

Is This Sesxism In Islam?

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"this is the thing...whats the big deal with a womans voice? what? are Muslim men that perverted that when they hear a muslim womans voice they are just gonna go and rape them?"

 

THANK YOU sister. this is a huge reason why i changed my mind in becoming muslim. i find it extremely insulting from a mans point of view that women cant be Imams. I am not a dog. I am a human being. Even though I am a man I am capable of controlling myself at ALL times. (I am scandinavian so in our culture we drink alot, but even when i have been completly inebriated I have NEVER EVER done anything with a girl. my body is for my future wife and my wife only to see.)

 

The reason why it is forbidden is because God said so.

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PropellerAds

Whatever Lars...

Edited by Righteous

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So what your saying is that Islam(submission to god) means to be brainwashed. is Islam compatible with rational thought?

 

Brainwashed by whom? Your creator? Can you even hear yourself?

 

It seems that you are brainwashed into believing that we Muslims are brainwashed. Perhaps it's about time to broaden your narrow mind, instead of telling us what we are and what we aren't.

 

 

And Sarah, your profile says "Islam", so I'm not sure if that's a glitch or if you really are Muslim. Just remember that what you're doing is questioning Allah, and that could lead to disbelief.

 

Salam.

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Thank you Layna, you have made my day. At least someone here uses their brain, alhamdulillah.

 

Lars - Looking at your previous posts, you don't do yourself any favours mate.

 

"open your mind to the beautiful things God has created for you." Hypocrite.

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I get a warning for doing nothing? Yeah whatever you don't see the crap these people say. Tell you what, please look at my post history I am sure I have done enough for you to boot me off this website ~

 

{Moderator note}

This post violated forum rule #7. Action taken. View (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?act=boardrules"]details[/url].

Edited by freedslave

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:sl: / Greetings to All

 

A reminder to brothers and sisters.

 

Please be civil in your posts. Avoid being hostile to others, and do not pass judgments on other members. It is not up to us to judge what is in one's heart.

 

(Call to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kindly exhortation, reason with them in the most courteous manner. For your Lord knows best who have strayed from His path, and He knows best who are rightly-guided.) (An-Nahl 16: 125)

 

:sl: / Greetings

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so Islam is sexist ? :sl:

 

 

The above poster seems to not know at all what he is talking about.

 

FOR EXAMPLE:

 

Can a woman rule a country? No

 

Not only do we see that the poster doesn't give any scriptural basis, but we see he is simply proven wrong by the fact that Islamic countries, such as Pakistan, have female leaders. Just because some posters here are sexist pigs, and most scholars, does not mean that Islam is sexist. :sl:

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Not only do we see that the poster doesn't give any scriptural basis, but we see he is simply proven wrong by the fact that Islamic countries, such as Pakistan, have female leaders. Just because some posters here are sexist pigs, and most scholars, does not mean that Islam is sexist. :sl:

 

Insulting most scholars is an insult to Islam itself as it is based on scholarship.

 

Abu Bakrah reported: when it reached the Prophet that the Persians had enthroned a daughter of the Chosroe as queen over them, he said; never shall a people prosper who appoints a woman to conduct their affairs. (Bukhari)

 

Abu Hurairah reported that the Messenger of Allah said: "When your rich are pious, your wealthy are generous and your affairs are governed by mutual consultation, the surface of earth is better for you than its crust; but when your rich are bad, your wealthy are miser and your affairs are conducted by women, the crust of the earth is better for you than its surface." (Tirmizi)

 

Implementing a pseudo-Shariah doesn't make a country an Islamic one.

Edited by Younes Ibn Abd' al-Aziz

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:) / Greetings

 

To those who agree with sis SarahH...

 

Ask yourselves these questions. On the day of judgement, is Allah :sl: going to ask you whether you understood the wisdom in His laws? Is He going to ask you whether you viewed His laws as sensible or logical to you? Is He going to ask you whether you compared His laws and wisdom, to your narrow human perspectives of logic, and then judge you based on this? Do you know how preposterous this sounds?

 

Don't you think Allah :j: knows what is best for us? Who are we to stigmatise Islam with human labels, like sexist and backwardness? Who are we to say we know best? We are nothing but His creation...

 

He will only ask us whether we simply obeyed them. Allah says obey. We are not required to understand His wisdom.

 

Of course that doesn't mean we do things blindly. We do find knowledge and try to understand His wisdom. Even to a simple minded Muslim, when in doubt about certain aspects of our religion, he/she can seek the help of a knowledgeable scholar and then follow what appears to be logical to that person. And usually, this only applies to some practical aspects of our religion where the 4 Imams disagree.

 

But the primary reason for obeying His laws should not be because we apply our understanding to why they are applied. It is because it is a command from Allah :). Even a good Muslim or a scholar may not fully comprehend His wisdom, even after explanations have been given, but he/she follows them nevertheless.

 

So here, the brothers and sisters have tried to explain His wisdom, by answering sis SarahH's questions. Even then we are limited in explaining that. It is then up to you whether you accept His wisdom behind His commands...

 

I shudder to think what will happen to a person if the answer he/she gives on the day of Judgement to why he/she did not follow His commands because he/she doubted His wisdom, using his/her narrow perspective of worldly things...

 

:sl: / Greetings

Edited by freedslave

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the whole there will be more women in hell than men is based on the fact that the leading that takes both genders to hell is the tongue , and we all know that women like to gossip so please do not take that hadith out of context.

 

Islam is a logical religion

we wear the hijab for protection

we dont eat pork because a pig is a disease ridden animal

we are commanded to lower are gaze to avoid temptation etc.

 

now the only things we simply embrace on faith alone are things like the whole idea of god, of the prophets journey to the heavens, of angels fighting along side muslims in jihad etc.

but when it comes down to allahs commands there is always a reason for them so it is not questioning god when somebody asks them. the manner in which the sister asked the questions i believe was uncalled for but she still has every right to ask them

there is nothing in Islam that Allah commands us to do that is without significance, so if your not knowledgeable to answer them than dont reply.

there is no dont question just follow or you are going to hell. if that were the case then we would'nt have been givin the ability to reason we would have been made angels or animals instead.

 

EVERY single question she asked could have been answered simply so do stop the drama.

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Assalamu alaikum Sis. Lateefah, with all due respect to you, we have tried to answer, No member is an actor here, and no one is trying to dramatise anything. If we have answered in a complicated way, Sorry, but WHY DON'T YOU TRY TO ANSWER THEM. I am eagerly awaiting to read your next post with simplified answers to Sis. sarahH's questions.

 

Salaams and duaas, umAhmad.

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lol sis if you did try to answer than my post did not apply to you i was refering to the people who were saying Allah commanded us to do it end of story follow or go to hell

and if you go back to page one i did answer matter of fact i did twice.

peace

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i understand the logic behind All of the above.. but i still dont understand the whole womans voice thing... ok here is it to the man... how many of u actually get excited when u hear a womans voice? i am not questioning allahs law.. i just want an honest answer from the brothers here...forget about voice.... if you see a woman who is not wearing a hijab do u get excited and try to mess around with her..? lets be practical... where the world is now allowing pronography i seriously doubt if men woul actually rape women jut by hearing her voice... again please dont take it as an offence...

 

and righteous ... i have said it before .. i didnt even see there was a thing where i had 2 select my religion... after i registered i saw that... (o god he seems to be the best muslim in this forum..)lol...

 

peace

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the womens voice is not awrah and to those who say it is explain to me how aisha the prophets wife could lead an army without speaking or how fatima the prophets daughter taught grown men the deen or how khadijah managed to be a bussiness women without speaking

sister ur not questioning Allah's laws at all because nowhere in the quran does Allah say the women voice is awrah the only ayah in the quran that speaks of it says the women shoudl not talk softly,sensually or flirtatiously so basicly when she speaks she should speak "tough"

peace

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:sl:

 

See sis sarah very practical logical wisdom for you.

There is difference between learning and questioning.

 

If you really want to learn, you should be eager & respectful in your learning, and not by just throwing questions in an unrespectful manner.

Many people have answered your question? You should go to scholar and if you dont wanna go there, there are various site like Islamqa and sunnipath, where they have answered it soo many times. Better is learn from some scholar & dont just buy things from anywhere.

 

:sl:

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the manner in which the sister asked the questions i believe was uncalled for but she still has every right to ask them

there is nothing in Islam that Allah commands us to do that is without significance, so if your not knowledgeable to answer them than dont reply.

there is no dont question just follow or you are going to hell. if that were the case then we would'nt have been givin the ability to reason we would have been made angels or animals instead.

 

Indeed so, you are right sister. I am not against anyone's right to question. But sister SarahH has done more than that. In the process of questioning she has labelled Islam as sexist, and this is so even after brothers and sisters have given answers.

 

The geist of what I'm trying to say is, don't accuse Islam before you know the logic behind it and what it says. If you do understand, then that's good. If you don't understand the logic behind Allah's wisdom after the explanations, then it is not incumbent for you to understand, for Allah does not make a burden too heavy for a person to bear. You can definitely try to, but after everything fails, then its best to accept His commands. This is what I meant; I should have clarified before.

 

If a person does not understand Allah's commands because it is beyond his/her comprehension, then it is okay if he/she them accepts without comprehension. But don't go and make silly statements about Islam and what not, when half the story is not known, or just because you don't understand His wisdom. I will definitely speak out against that.

 

... i was refering to the people who were saying Allah commanded us to do it end of story follow or go to hell
Hopefully what I said above clarifies the issue.

 

EVERY single question she asked could have been answered simply so do stop the drama.

 

Not trying to be dramatic here. As aunty umahmad has mentioned she has been answered.

 

There is difference between learning and questioning.

 

If you really want to learn, you should be eager & respectful in your learning, and not by just throwing questions in an unrespectful manner.

Many people have answered your question? You should go to scholar and if you dont wanna go there, there are various site like Islamqa and sunnipath, where they have answered it soo many times. Better is learn from some scholar & dont just buy things from anywhere.

 

:sl:

 

I agree with what the brother has said here. You can't learn through making disrespectful statements. Also, its best to consult the local scholar or imam on these things.

Edited by freedslave

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if you see a woman who is not wearing a hijab do u get excited and try to mess around with her..?

 

No, because the command to men is to lower their gaze when in front of women, whether they covered with the hijab or not. We are also definitely not supposed to behave to women in that way.

 

The same command is given to women to lower their gaze when they are in front of men. This does not mean they can't control their desires. Lowering of gaze is advised for both sexes, to prevent zinaa of the eye.

 

Here is more on zinaa.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetIslam-qa(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?ref=3013&ln=eng&txt=zina"]Link[/url]

 

lets be practical... where the world is now allowing pronography i seriously doubt if men woul actually rape women jut by hearing her voice... again please dont take it as an offence...

 

In the first place sis, most contemporary scholars deem pornography as haram. Here are some views.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetIslam-qa(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?ref=42165&ln=eng&txt=pornography"]Link[/url]

 

Secondly, here are some views regarding women singing nasheed and reciting Quran.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetshariahprogram.ca/Islam-qa-women/female-voice-singing.shtml"]Link[/url]

 

:sl: / Greetings

Edited by freedslave

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:sl:

 

[at] SarahH

 

 

I repeat.

 

 

:sl:

 

Question: Do you believe in Allah and His Messenger [pbuh]?[using large font size is not allowed]

 

Question: Do you believe Allah is All Knowing All Wise?[using large font size is not allowed]

 

Question: Do you believe you are equal to Allah in Wisdom and Knowledge [or anything for that matter]?[using large font size is not allowed]

 

Question: Do you believe Allah is AL-'ADL (The Just)?[using large font size is not allowed]

 

w/salaam

 

 

w/salaam

Edited by noxiouspython

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my answer to you noxious is... I DONT NEED TO ANSWER YOU.... muhahahaahaa!

 

anyways i never said pornography is allowed. i asked how can a females voice be the factor of excitement for men when in this world now it is so normal for a woman to be less less than half-fully dressed? i mean how many of you men actually get excited when u hear a womans voice? seriously do any of you? or probably Muslim men are psychologically different? they get too excited easily?

 

and the link you provided .. its said there that a man should not listen to a non-mahram womans nasheed... then can a woman listen to a non-mahrams nasheed or the adhan(some imams have great voices)?

 

and i dont think i have been disrespectful att all (atleast not more than the dude righteous :sl: )... i was being honest of what i think... and thas how i am... i am sorry i cant change that way...atleast i was being honest and not being like some muslims over here who think they are the best muslims and anyone who has doubts and questions(respectfully or disrespectfully) Allahs orders are all less muslim than them and claim they r commitiing kufr.. names of whom i wouldnt mention :sl:

 

and whats this madhab thing?i thought all i really need to be is just muslim .. and believe in the shahada the quran and sunnah... isnt following a madhab gona make me belong to a sect? i can be very wrong here with that.. do help me (this may be a different topic right?)

 

so how many of you have heard about a rape case where the reason was the girls voice?

 

salam

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:sl:

 

my answer to you noxious is... I DONT NEED TO ANSWER YOU.... muhahahaahaa!

 

 

Yeah, that says a lot about you.

 

 

w/salaam

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Peace

 

Abu Bakrah reported: when it reached the Prophet that the Persians had enthroned a daughter of the Chosroe as queen over them, he said; never shall a people prosper who appoints a woman to conduct their affairs. (Bukhari)

 

I heard that the hadith about women not allowed to being rulers of a country are weak and/or fabricated. Im probably wrong tho, I think I read that on Islamonline. I will check later.

 

Salaams

Edited by anthony19832005

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anyways i never said pornography is allowed. i asked how can a females voice be the factor of excitement for men when in this world now it is so normal for a woman to be less less than half-fully dressed?

 

In the first place, a woman being half-dressed is definitely not allowed in Islam.

 

You know sis, we can do this all day long. Pornography is haraam, women being half-dressed is not allowed...what else are you going to bring up?

 

You've brought up social problems sister...all of which need reforms to change within our Muslim countries. It is a complicated issue, something which I don't even know where to begin with.

 

To be short, men are supposed to guard their hearts against impure thoughts. Whether in a society where women are half-dressed, pornography is prevalent, and women sing in front of men, or in another society where women dress conservatively, no such fitnah like pornography and women do not sing in front of men and be modest, it is still imcumbent on the man no matter where he is,to guard his heart against impure thoughts.

 

Modesty of clothing or behaviour, on both men and women, is something we do externally to prevent zina. Guarding the heart is something we do within ourselves to prevent it.

 

i mean how many of you men actually get excited when u hear a womans voice? seriously do any of you? or probably Muslim men are psychologically different? they get too excited easily?
You seem to suggest man are not supposed to hear the woman's voice at all. This is not the case. This only applies to when a woman's voice is soft-spoken and alluring, as it is said in the verse of the Quran. They are encouraged to speak up when talking to the man.

 

This has been explained to you before sis.

 

and the link you provided .. its said there that a man should not listen to a non-mahram womans nasheed... then can a woman listen to a non-mahrams nasheed or the adhan(some imams have great voices)?

 

So far, there is nothing to say that the man's voice is alluring.

 

If you do find so, then simply avoid listening to the particular man's voice. Problem solved.

 

Go to another Masjid or stop listening to the nasheed with the singer.

 

and whats this madhab thing?i thought all i really need to be is just muslim .. and believe in the shahada the quran and sunnah... isnt following a madhab gona make me belong to a sect? i can be very wrong here with that.. do help me (this may be a different topic right?)
I'm tired sis. Read the thread on madhab to get your answer. Or do a search on a Islamic website or even on our forum. You'll most likely find a lot of info on madhabs on the past threads created here too...

 

so how many of you have heard about a rape case where the reason was the girls voice?

 

I've heard none. But that is only part of the reason why a woman should not speak in an alluring way. Acts that lead to zinaa should also be prevented. A weak man, who is allured by a soft-spoken voice, would commit 'zinaa of the mind' as his imaan is not strong.

Edited by freedslave

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Peace be upon those who follow guidance

 

This type of excessive questioning leads to no good as it can be seen from the story of the Children of israel. They questioned Moses(pbuh) a lot and only ended up with the laws being more strict and overwhelming for them.

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i was being honest of what i think... and thas how i am... i am sorry i cant change that way...atleast i was being honest and not being like some muslims over here who think they are the best muslims and anyone who has doubts and questions(respectfully or disrespectfully)

 

 

salam

 

salaam everyone

really sister sarah h you seem to be very careless that you actually given yourself away....

you apologise and say u can't change the way u r - then what you have shown us is that you have not come here to understand what Islam is all about nor are are you open minded enough to see the reasoning behind the questions you asked but you have actually come here is to criticise our religion and faith

 

your heart is completely sealed up thats why u fail to understand the answers given by the brothers and sisters and pays no attention to whether they are right or not cuz in the end you will always come up with another criticism but manupilating it into a question and say oh am only here to learn..blah...blah..blah

 

not one reply of yours was a good comment....even if u did come to learn you would be thankfull enough that there is such wonderfull people in here that have not given up upon ur remarks and criticism not questions! and had an enormous amount of patience to try and correct you and quide you to the right path.....

 

i really hope Allah forgives u and guide you to Jannat and open your heart

 

after all your questions answered yet you still manage to find another point to criticise again

 

really if this is your reason bieng in this forum then up to you

 

sooner or later you will be ignored and forgotten

 

the difference between us and u is that we are here to help each other unlike you your just wasting your time so in the end its you thats gaining nothing out of this anyway.......

 

My only question to you is WHY do u hate Islam so much and why do you have to criticise every answer given to you?

 

You may think your superior by asking all sorts of questions but do remember what happened to people who where just like you and worse?

 

The Pharaoh of Egypt thought he ruled the world, used to make it rain and other great things and then what happened to him?

Have you forgotten that Allah in the end made him drown in the river and even the river would not accept his ody and spat it out. Now his body is still in the musuem. (i dnt know which musuem)

 

What about what happened to the Army of Elephants, this lot thought they could destroy the Kaabah eh and Allah ordered his creation (birds) to drop some kind of harmful, powerful stone on each of them that killed them all.

 

There is so many other stories but i have not got time to write them all and i dnt know that many either.

 

When someone goes over the top does not matter whatever, whoever it is but when Allah Taala gets angry then be aware cuz then no one will be able to protect that person for he is doomed - NOBODY!

 

My suggestion to you, no not suggestion, actually i BEG you to stop this silly thing you are doing in this forum for the consequences will be far worse than what you can expect......i mean it please open your mind and heart and lets have some positive feedback from you - why are we all against Islam.....do we really hate it that much.... :j:

 

Nobody knows what will happen to us at anytime.......whatever Allah decide we accept gracefully..... :sl:

 

Have some respect at least Sarah H :sl:

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