Jump to content
Islamic Forum
Sign in to follow this  
mac111

Hello Atheists U R Close To Muslims !

Recommended Posts

First of my greetings to all atheists. :j:

 

I would like to start by appreciating that some of atheists really r bold enuf to research :sl: rather than accepting everything (who follow traditions of majority) or rejecting everything plainly (thats worst of atheism lol..) both of which rusts the brains... As a muslim i am happy that Atheists are not christians , hindus , buddhist who blindly follow traditions of worshipping prophets, human beings , idols ,statues ,snakes , monkies , cows, sun , moon etc or like people you make god part of a family father , child , mother (yep that has come in latest feminist bible of christians now :))

 

An atheist is close to muslim because he agrees with the first part of the Shahada i.e. the Islamic Creed, ‘La ilaaha’ - meaning ‘there is no God’. So they mite be considered half muslims :sl: ... now the only part left for their brains to understand is ‘il lallah’ i.e. ‘BUT Allah’ which Zakir Naik explains in his address to atheists

 

Zakir Naik speaking to Atheists

 

LOGICAL CONCEPT OF GOD

 

My first question to the atheist will be: "What is the definition of God?" For a person to say there is no God, he should know what is the meaning of God. If I hold a book and say that ‘this is a pen’, for the opposite person to say, ‘it is not a pen’, he should know what is the definition of a pen, even if he does not know nor is able to recognise or identify the object I am holding in my hand. For him to say this is not a pen, he should at least know what a pen means. Similarly for an atheist to say ‘there is no God’, he should at least know the concept of God. His concept of God would be derived from the surroundings in which he lives. The god that a large number of people worship has got human qualities - therefore he does not believe in such a god. Similarly a Muslim too does not and should not believe in such false gods.

 

If a non-Muslim believes that Islam is a merciless religion with something to do with terrorism; a religion which does not give rights to women; a religion which contradicts science; in his limited sense that non-Muslim is correct to reject such Islam. The problem is he has a wrong picture of Islam. Even I reject such a false picture of Islam, but at the same time, it becomes my duty as a Muslim to present the correct picture of Islam to that non-Muslim i.e. Islam is a merciful religion, it gives equal rights to the women, it is not incompatible with logic, reason and science; if I present the correct facts about Islam, that non-Muslim may Inshallah accept Islam.

 

Similarly the atheist rejects the false gods and the duty of every Muslim is to present the correct concept of God which he shall Insha Allah not refuse.

 

(You may refer to my article, ‘Concept of God in Islam’ by Zakir Naik , for more details)

 

 

QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE

 

The methods of proving the existence of God with usage of the material provided in the ‘Concept of God in Islam’ to an atheist may satisfy some but not all.

 

Many atheists demand a scientific proof for the existence of God. I agree that today is the age of science and technology. Let us use scientific knowledge to kill two birds with one stone, i.e. to prove the existence of God and simultaneously prove that the Qur’an is a revelation of God.

 

If a new object or a machine, which no one in the world has ever seen or heard of before, is shown to an atheist or any person and then a question is asked, " Who is the first person who will be able to provide details of the mechanism of this unknown object? After little bit of thinking, he will reply, ‘the creator of that object.’ Some may say ‘the producer’ while others may say ‘the manufacturer.’ What ever answer the person gives, keep it in your mind, the answer will always be either the creator, the producer, the manufacturer or some what of the same meaning, i.e. the person who has made it or created it. Don’t grapple with words, whatever answer he gives, the meaning will be same, therefore accept it.

 

SCIENTIFIC FACTS MENTIONED IN THE QUR’AN: for details on this subject please refer to my book, ‘THE QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE – COMPATIBLE OR INCOMPATIBLE?

 

 

THEORY OF PROBABILITY

 

In mathematics there is a theory known as ‘Theory of Probability’. If you have two options, out of which one is right, and one is wrong, the chances that you will chose the right one is half, i.e. one out of the two will be correct. You have 50% chances of being correct. Similarly if you toss a coin the chances that your guess will be correct is 50% (1 out of 2) i.e. 1/2. If you toss a coin the second time, the chances that you will be correct in the second toss is again 50% i.e. half. But the chances that you will be correct in both the tosses is half multiplied by half (1/2 x 1/2) which is equal to 1/4 i.e. 50% of 50% which is equal to 25%. If you toss a coin the third time, chances that you will be correct all three times is (1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2) that is 1/8 or 50% of 50% of 50% that is 12½%.

 

A dice has got six sides. If you throw a dice and guess any number between 1 to 6, the chances that your guess will be correct is 1/6. If you throw the dice the second time, the chances that your guess will be correct in both the throws is (1/6 x 1/6) which is equal to 1/36. If you throw the dice the third time, the chances that all your three guesses are correct is (1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6) is equal to 1/216 that is less than 0.5 %.

 

Let us apply this theory of probability to the Qur’an, and assume that a person has guessed all the information that is mentioned in the Qur’an which was unknown at that time. Let us discuss the probability of all the guesses being simultaneously correct.

 

At the time when the Qur’an was revealed, people thought the world was flat, there are several other options for the shape of the earth. It could be triangular, it could be quadrangular, pentagonal, hexagonal, heptagonal, octagonal, spherical, etc. Lets assume there are about 30 different options for the shape of the earth. The Qur’an rightly says it is spherical, if it was a guess the chances of the guess being correct is 1/30.

 

The light of the moon can be its own light or a reflected light. The Qur’an rightly says it is a reflected light. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/2 and the probability that both the guesses i.e the earth is spherical and the light of the moon is reflected light is 1/30 x 1/2 = 1/60.

 

Further, the Qur’an also mentions every living thing is made of water. Every living thing can be made up of either wood, stone, copper, aluminum, steel, silver, gold, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, oil, water, cement, concrete, etc. The options are say about 10,000. The Qur’an rightly says that everything is made up of water. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/10,000 and the probability of all the three guesses i.e. the earth is spherical, light of moon is reflected light and everything is created from water being correct is 1/30 x 1/2 x 1/10,000 = 1/60,000 which is equal to about .0017%.

 

 

 

The Qur’an speaks about hundreds of things that were not known to men at the time of its revelation. Only in three options the result is .0017%. I leave it upto you, to work out the probability if all the hundreds of the unknown facts were guesses, the chances of all of them being correct guesses simultaneously and there being not a single wrong guess. It is beyond human capacity to make all correct guesses without a single mistake, which itself is sufficient to prove to a logical person that the origin of the Qur’an is Divine.

 

 

CREATOR IS THE AUTHOR OF THE QUR’AN

 

The only logical answer to the question as to who could have mentioned all these scientific facts 1400 years ago before they were discovered, is exactly the same answer initially given by the atheist or any person, to the question who will be the first person who will be able to tell the mechanism of the unknown object. It is the ‘CREATOR’, the producer, the Manufacturer of the whole universe and its contents. In the English language He is ‘God’, or more appropriate in the Arabic language, ‘Allah’.

 

 

QUR’AN IS A BOOK OF SIGNS AND NOT SCIENCE

 

Let me remind you that the Qur’an is not a book of Science, ‘S-C-I-E-N-C-E’ but a book of Signs ‘S-I-G-N-S’ i.e. a book of ayaats. The Qur’an contains more than 6,000 ayaats, i.e. ‘signs’, out of which more than a thousand speak about Science. I am not trying to prove that the Qur’an is the word of God using scientific knowledge as a yard stick because any yardstick is supposed to be more superior than what is being checked or verified. For us Muslims the Qur’an is the Furqan i.e. criteria to judge right from wrong and the ultimate yardstick which is more superior to scientific knowledge.

 

But for an educated man who is an atheist, scientific knowledge is the ultimate test which he believes in. We do know that science many a times takes ‘U’ turns, therefore I have restricted the examples only to scientific facts which have sufficient proof and evidence and not scientific theories based on assumptions. Using the ultimate yardstick of the atheist, I am trying to prove to him that the Qur’an is the word of God and it contains the scientific knowledge which is his yardstick which was discovered recently, while the Qur’an was revealed 1400 year ago. At the end of the discussion, we both come to the same conclusion that God though superior to science, is not incompatible with it.

 

 

SCIENCE IS ELIMINATING MODELS OF GOD BUT NOT GOD

 

Francis Bacon, the famous philosopher, has rightly said that a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God. Scientists today are eliminating models of God, but they are not eliminating God. If you translate this into Arabic, it is La illaha illal la, There is no god, (god with a small ‘g’ that is fake god) but God (with a capital ‘G’).

 

Surah Fussilat:

 

"Soon We will show them our signs in the (farthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?"

 

[Al-Quran 41:53]

Speech by zakir naik on Islam and atheism

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_saif_w.tripod(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/explore/science/science_civilisation_in_islam.tm"]Science and Civilisation in Islam[/url]

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_saif_w.tripod(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/explore/science/quran_knowledge_science.htm"]Qur'an, Knowledge and Science[/url]

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_saif_w.tripod(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/explore/science/science_muslim_scientists.htm"]Science and Muslim Scientists[/url]

 

Well let me tell when an atheist becomes a muslim after doing lot of research he is more on right path of quran and sunnah because he has done thorough research of it rather than some muslims by birth who claim to on quran and sunnah but follow traditions of their parents later get divided sects bringing cultural hatred and innovations hence deviating from true Islam and justifying their traditions by bringing verse here and there which are same used by the disbelievers in bringing bad image to Islam

 

I pray Allah will have mercy of guidance on all us and forgive even those people for whom their wrongdoings , arrogance , envy and racist hate has becomes like a barrier which seals their hearts hence preventing the guidance leading them to deviate from true path ...

Edited by mac111

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PropellerAds
An atheist is close to muslim because he agrees with the first part of the Shahada i.e. the Islamic Creed, ‘La ilaaha’ - meaning ‘there is no God’.

 

I disagree with this statement that is used so much by muslims. Acutally, the fitrah is to believe in God, since the atheist does not believe in any God then I would say he is further away than an idol worshipper - the idol worshipper believes, at least, that there is a god (or a group or gods or even a population of gods); the problem is that he believes in the wrong one(s). The atheist is farther away from firah than the idol worshipper (although both are far).

 

That's my 2 cents worth :sl:

Edited by Mahawi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First of my greetings to all atheists. :j:

 

 

An atheist is close to muslim because he agrees with the first part of the Shahada i.e. the Islamic Creed, ‘La ilaaha’ - meaning ‘there is no God’. So they mite be considered half muslims :sl: ... now the only part left for their brains to understand is ‘il lallah’ i.e. ‘BUT Allah’ which Zakir Naik explains in his address to atheists

 

 

 

 

uhm ...

i can reply : an atheist is close to christian too ...

1 commandament says : there's not god ....... before Me

is it right ? :sl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A blank slate is easier to write on than a chalkboard that must first be erased, than rewritten.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
uhm ...

i can reply : an atheist is close to christian too ...

1 commandament says : there's not god ....... before Me

is it right ? :sl:

 

but in christianity God is considered to be a human being (i.e. prophet jesus) who has already died on cross :sl: :j:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
uhm ... not exactly :sl:

 

they pray to statue of dead man (which they consider it to be of prophet Jesus)....whereas in Bible jesus never said worship me or i m God instead he always said yr God is one worship him and he Jesus also prayed to God

 

Mark 28-32

28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"

29 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

 

 

Going a little farther, he (Jesus) fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." (Mathew 26:39)

 

 

Mathew 19:16-17 -

Now behold, one came and said to Jesus, “Good master, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life? ”So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

 

.....he never said go believe in i will die for yr sins for u to attain eternal life

 

Jesus is not Son of God read below :

 

Acts 3:13

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.

 

READ DIFFERENCES IN TRANSLATION

 

King James Version

 

Acts 3:26 - Unto you first God, having raised up his son Jesus, sent him

 

to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

 

 

New King James Version

 

Acts 3:26 - To you first, God, having raised up His servant Jesus, sent

 

Him to bless you, in turning every one of you away from his iniquities.

 

In the KJV, we find that Jesus is God's Son. In the NKJV, we find that He is

 

God's servant. These are clearly not the same! The Greek word found in the text

 

here is "pais". It can be used in Greek for either "son" or "servant." So greek translator went for "son" it was befittin their concept regarding zeus and hercules in their mythology

 

Mathew 23:9

"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father which is in heaven."

From this verse you will note that fatherhood and sonship is meant to be the relationship between the God and His servants. It is meant in a general sense for all and not for Jesus only. Father word is used for priests also by some christians the reason being only for giving respect and honor.

 

 

So much of bad is done by those translators in bible plus the imposter st.paul who used to persecute early christians ...infiltrating into church bringing in new concepts which contradicted some of original message ..

 

 

The overall stand of Jesus (peace and blessings of God be upon him) in Islam is confirmed in this verses of quran

 

 

Translation Quran 4:171

“………...Christ Jesus the son of Mary was a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which he bestowed upon Mary, and a spirit preceding from Him: so believe in Allah and his messengers. Say not "Three": desist!, it is better for you, for Allah is one God, Glory be to Him, Far exalted is He above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and the earth. And enough is Allah as a disposer of affairs."

 

 

 

Anywaz this topic is regarding atheism and Islam and not christianity and Islam :sl:

 

by they way IoDio u r christian or atheist ?

Edited by mac111

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

peaceall

i know a friend of mine who became atheist just because of all this contradictory stuff in bible itself and what church teaches :sl: but when came to know about Islam and he started researching it he found what quran speaks is 100% correct and then converted to Islam . Lucky fellow :sl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
by they way IoDio u r christian or atheist ?

 

hey wait !

i really dont understand why u posted parts of the gospels !

i didnt want to talk about cristianity ..

when I wrote that thing about commandamends ( as u know they're on the Old testament ,and what u wrote is from the New Testament :sl: ) i meant that every theist (muslim , christian , protestant , ecc )may say that a atheist is a half theist!

 

 

ehm .. i used to be christian for 15 years .. thanks cristianity i'm an atheist now !

 

Peace ! :sl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ehm .. i used to be christian for 15 years .. thanks cristianity i'm an atheist now !

 

Peace ! :sl:

 

:j: :) :) :D :D I cannot stop laughing, never expected another case of christian converting to atheism would come so fast as soon I posted , check the post of mine above if you dont believe :sl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:sl: :j: :) :) :D I cannot stop laughing, never expected another case of christian converting to atheism would come so fast as soon I posted , check the post of mine above if you dont believe :sl:

 

 

we were writing at the same time probably :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[at] IoDio "thanks cristianity i'm an atheist now !"--what do you mean? :sl:

Edited by Elidicious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good point Elidicious!

 

hey wait !

i really dont understand why u posted parts of the gospels !

i didnt want to talk about cristianity ..

when I wrote that thing about commandamends ( as u know they're on the Old testament ,and what u wrote is from the New Testament :sl: ) i meant that every theist (muslim , christian , protestant , ecc )may say that a atheist is a half theist!

ehm .. i used to be christian for 15 years .. thanks cristianity i'm an atheist now !

 

Peace ! :sl:

 

Why did Christianity make you an atheist, IoDio?? Maybe we can understand why you rejected God completely.

Edited by JCBeliever

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe we can understand why you rejected God completely.
--right..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good point Elidicious!

Why did Christianity make you an atheist, IoDio?? Maybe we can understand why you rejected God completely.

 

by knowing better ur religion !

ur holy book is full of contradiction ...

yes i know , it was edited by man ...but WHY[using large font size is not allowed] if it was written (or ispired) by a Perfect Being ?

or do u think that Bible must be interpretated in allegorical terms ? ( Saint Agostino docet )

 

 

and christianity is a real shame !

think about what ur dear Mother Church did during centuries !

u want to talk about crusades , antisemitism, whitch - hunt , sacred inquisition ?

what about misogyny ?

how many people were burned alive only because they didn t agree that Earth was in the center of the universe?

 

i know what do u think .. I'm ridiculous ! yes .. maybe :sl:

 

 

Sanctificetur nomen suum !

 

 

 

PEACE :sl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
by knowing better ur religion !

ur holy book is full of contradiction ...

yes i know , it was edited by man ...but WHY[using large font size is not allowed] if it was written (or ispired) by a Perfect Being ?

or do u think that Bible must be interpretated in allegorical terms ? ( Saint Agostino docet )

 

That argument is so overplayed. If the Bible was riddled with corruptions and contradictions then Jesus wouldn't have been able to fulfill all his prophecies, you wouldn't find the prophecies! They'd be all distorted or something.

 

 

and christianity is a real shame !

think about what ur dear Mother Church did during centuries !

u want to talk about crusades , antisemitism, whitch - hunt , sacred inquisition ?

what about misogyny ?

how many people were burned alive only because they didn t agree that Earth was in the center of the universe?

 

i know what do u think .. I'm ridiculous ! yes .. maybe :sl:

Sanctificetur nomen suum !

PEACE :sl:

 

First of all, the Church reformed. Would something corrupted ever become uncorrupted without God? Also, men did these bad things, not Jesus. Those were anti-Christian things, in fact, the whole holy wars and infidel burnings thing. Try judging religions today, in this modern age, instead of the dark age!

Edited by JCBeliever

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
peaceall

i know a friend of mine who became atheist just because of all this contradictory stuff in bible itself and what church teaches :sl: but when came to know about Islam and he started researching it he found what quran speaks is 100% correct and then converted to Islam . Lucky fellow :sl:

 

100% correct? How can we define what is correct? Are stories of Jesus talking from a cradle and making birds from clay correct? Such Quran stories were found in very late apocryphal books that weren't included in the Bible. The Quran is 100% questionable. It's got some real sketchy stories in it. Can you sleep well a night with the Quran next to your bed? Man, I couldn't. And to think it was from God Himself, with so much of man's words! It would be better for you if Muhammed gave Jibreel the Bible and he proof-read it and corrected it, instead of giving a new book altogether with it's own controversies. You are no farther ahead, friends.

Edited by JCBeliever

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JBeliever first tell me which God do you believe in ? :sl:

 

a. Jehovah of Old Testament

 

b. Jesus , the messiah

 

c. Father , The God

 

d. God divided into 3 parts father , son jesus , holy ghost

 

e. God divided into 3 parts father , child jesus , mother

 

 

If you tell did jesus fulfill prophesies in Old Testament

 

Yes he did , he was coming Messiah . Jesus was prophet he came to fulfill the law in Old Testament , Torah

 

He never claimed divinity that I am God , worship . He always said your God and my God is ONE worship Him. Even he used to fell on face and worship him and night before crucification he continously prayed to him to make this situation pass from him

 

Now regarding st.paul

 

a person who persecuted early christian was there in destroying teachings of jesus suddenly claims some vision of jesus and comes to your churches and starts adding means that jesus could not complete his mission or what ??? Paul completely changed the concept of God , he made Jesus to be son of God lol :j: and made your book full of contradictions

 

If anyone comes and claims that he has seen Allah or prophetmohammed (peace beupon him) in dream and that person says I have got instructions in vision telling that certain things are to added or changed or prophet mohammed claimed to son etc we wouldnt allow that means prophets means was not successful ?

 

And to think it new testament was from God Himself, with so much of man's words! It would have been better for jesus not to sit and correct Old testament and add more stuff which still wasn't enough that st.paul had to add more :) and you say bible is not questionable you are hallucinating boy :sl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
by knowing better ur religion(christianity) !

ur holy book is full of contradiction ...

ok. you found out the christianity is contradictory. What about trying Islam? :sl: i mean...some people couldn't find themselves in Christianity and started discovering new things in Islam. Or maybe you don't want to deal with this religion? :sl: Edited by Elidicious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ok. you found out the christianity is contradictory. What about trying Islam? :j: i mean...some people couldn't find themselves in Christianity and started discovering new things in Islam. Or maybe you don't want to deal with this religion? :)

 

Yes sister many people who have researching mind they get confused :sl: if they read Old Testament,NewTestament and other biblical texts of early christians because what bible , church , early nazarene christians are saying are all different so only confusions confusions :sl: Thats why each sect in christianity has different concept of God itself leave other things Our missionary friend JCBeliever is trying to prove his point of God thats why without going further I want to know his God is who ? :D thats why in my earlier post before yours , I have raised this question as mcq :) please read it carefully again

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read it but i want to know her version. :sl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
100% correct? How can we define what is correct? Are stories of Jesus talking from a cradle and making birds from clay correct? Such Quran stories were found in very late apocryphal books that weren't included in the Bible. The Quran is 100% questionable. It's got some real sketchy stories in it. Can you sleep well a night with the Quran next to your bed? Man, I couldn't. And to think it was from God Himself, with so much of man's words! It would be better for you if Muhammed gave Jibreel the Bible and he proof-read it and corrected it, instead of giving a new book altogether with it's own controversies. You are no farther ahead, friends.

 

We can define what is correct by testing wether it is from God or not.

 

Yes, Jesus(pbuh) making birds from clay is correct if the source which states it is the Word of God.

The Bible is not an authentic Book, the Qur'an corrects the Bible in some instances. Besides, if something is not written in the Bible it doesn't mean that it isn't true.

Do you think the Bible doesn't have really sketchy stories in it from an Atheist point of view?

 

The last part of your post was totally uncalled for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ok. you found out the christianity is contradictory. What about trying Islam? :sl: i mean...some people couldn't find themselves in Christianity and started discovering new things in Islam. Or maybe you don't want to deal with this religion? :sl:

 

good point elidicious.

 

JCBeliever

100% correct? How can we define what is correct? Are stories of Jesus talking from a cradle and making birds from clay correct? Such Quran stories were found in very late apocryphal books that weren't included in the Bible. The Quran is 100% questionable. It's got some real sketchy stories in it.

 

you as a christian dont you believe in the miracles of Jesus (as)?

 

how can you say that the Quran is 100% questionable?have you ever tried reading it with an open mind?

 

i want to ask you a question?Do you believe in the miraculous birth of Jesus(as)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lets stop here[using large font size is not allowed]

 

This topic is Atheist and Muslim dialogue [using large font size is not allowed][using large font size is not allowed]

 

Dear JCBeliever [using large font size is not allowed]

 

PLEASE DONT POST FURTHER HERE . FOR REPLYING PLEASE FEEL FREE TO START ANOTHER TOPIC FOR CHRISTIAN-ATHEIST DIALOGUE OR CHRISTIAN-MUSLIM DIALOGUE THERE WE CAN HAVE DETAILED DISCUSSION. THIS TOPICS IS FOR DIALOGUE BETWEEN AND ATHEIST AND MUSLIMS

 

THANKS FOR COOPERATING :sl:

Edited by mac111

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×