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Elidicious

Atheism : Why ?

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:sl:

 

If you feel justified in saying that then fine. I was just alluding to the fact that placing judgement on one's condition having merely read a few of their internet postings is a fine line to be treading. But alhamdulillah 'ala kulli hal, as I said, state that which you feel comfortable stating...

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PropellerAds
:sl:

 

If you feel justified in saying that then fine. I was just alluding to the fact that placing judgement on one's condition having merely read a few of their internet postings is a fine line to be treading. But alhamdulillah 'ala kulli hal, as I said, state that which you feel comfortable stating...

 

:sl:

 

She is free to correct me.

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But if you continue with this "I'm in between disbelief and belief" God might never guide you or forgive you
the problem is not God, the problem is religion. which means.....if i should be a muslim 100% or not. things start step by step little boy, i'm starting to like this religion and that's a great thing..because before a few weeks i didn't even care about it. so? later i may start believing in the hereafter....and other things.

 

plus, relax and watch the way you talk. a few weeks ago you corrected me regarding my rudeness, now i'm correcting you. don't be rude cuz you represent yourself...and your religion. so be careful!

 

just wanted to say thanx to emel. she always understands me. :sl:

Edited by Elidicious

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the problem is not God, the problem is religion. which means.....if i should be a muslim 100% or not. things start step by step little boy, i'm starting to like this religion and that's a great thing..because before a few weeks i didn't even care about it. so? later i may start believing in the hereafter....and other things.

 

Great. Don't call me a "little boy", that's an ad-hominem.

 

plus, relax and watch the way you talk. a few weeks ago you corrected me regarding my rudeness, now i'm correcting you. don't be rude cuz you represent yourself...and your religion. so be careful!

 

I'm not rude at all. I say what's up. A Muslim is a person who testifies that there is no Deity save God and that Muhammed is His Messenger and that there is a Hereafter and that God has full authority over you. Do you fit the criteria? If you honestly do, say so.

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just wanted to say thanx to emel. she always understands me. :sl:

 

Sister emel here is some advice to you. :sl:

 

"And therefore we term him a Kafir who does not consider them khuffar who are not in the Millah (creed) of Islam; or deliberated in saying so or doubted in this or said 'true/right' about their Madhhab even though such a person may believe in all Islamic beliefs and the falsehood of all other beliefs, yet he is a Kaafir for the fact that he did the opposite (of what he believed)."

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_qa.sunnipath(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=216&CATE=13"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_qa.sunnipath(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/issue_view.asp?HD=...216&CATE=13[/url]

Edited by Younes Ibn Abd' al-Aziz

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i'm not rude at all.
yes you are. there are 923874 ways to say something. you've chosen one of the less pleasent ways. believe me. if you want me to follow your religion you must know how to communicate with me(not only wiht me but with everyone else who might want to follow Islam). if i get to believe that that's the way you talk, and that you represent Islam....i'll think that Islam is the way you are.

so everything counts!

 

A Muslim is a person who testifies that there is no Deity save God and that Muhammed is His Messenger and that there is a Hereafter and that God has full authority over you. Do you fit the criteria? If you honestly do, say so.
No i don't fit the criteria. and that's why i said "i don't call myself a muslim 100%".

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:sl:

 

:sl: akhi for the advice and I will read that article by Sheykh Gibril Haddad again as it is something I read a while ago. SubhanaAllah I was just about to post the following from Sunnipath as a way of explaining the reasons behind what I said:

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_qa.sunnipath(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=4168&CATE=13"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_qa.sunnipath(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/issue_view.asp?HD=...168&CATE=13[/url]

 

I am no-one to give advice so forgive me if I offended you brother; this was not the purpose nor the intention behind my posting.

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yes you are. there are 923874 ways to say something. you've chosen one of the less pleasent ways. believe me. if you want me to follow your religion you must know how to communicate with me(not only wiht me but with everyone else who might want to follow Islam). if i get to believe that that's the way you talk, and that you represent Islam....i'll think that Islam is the way you are.

so everything counts!

 

Do you remember the last time you went really out of line, what did I do? I answer backed with calm words and exlained my position. This time I gave you harder, not only because it is what you are doing, but to make you hasten to make your decision.

 

If you judge a religion based on its followers, you judge wrongly.

 

I'm sorry if I somehow hindered your progress towards Islam.

 

No i don't fit the criteria. and that's why i said "i don't call myself a muslim 100%".

 

Then you have no reason to be mad at me if I called you a non-Muslim because that is excactly what you are according to Islamic creed. I won't get mad if a Christian calls me a non-Chrisitian because I am not a Christian.

Edited by Younes Ibn Abd' al-Aziz

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:sl:

 

:j: akhi for the advice and I will read that article by Sheykh Gibril Haddad again as it is something I read a while ago. SubhanaAllah I was just about to post the following from Sunnipath as a way of explaining the reasons behind what I said:

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_qa.sunnipath(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=4168&CATE=13"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_qa.sunnipath(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/issue_view.asp?HD=...168&CATE=13[/url]

 

I am no-one to give advice so forgive me if I offended you brother; this was not the purpose nor the intention behind my posting.

 

:sl:

 

You haven't offended me. The reason I advice you is because in the worst case defending Elidicious can amount to kufr.

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Do you remember the last time you went really out of line, what did I do? I answer backed with calm words and exlained my position. This time I gave you harder, not only because it is what you are doing, but to make you hasten to make your decision.
no matter what you did last time. it matters what you're doing now. we're talking about "now". and if you want to make me hasten, well..you chose the wrong way...cuz that way you make me back up.

 

Then you have no reason to be mad at me if I called you a non-Muslim
you still don't understand why i'm mad at you. you've understood nothing.

 

The reason I advice you is because in the worst case defending Elidicious can amount to kufr.
she wasn't defending me. she was talking about you and the way you talk. Edited by Elidicious

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no matter what you did last time. it matters what you're doing now. we're talking about "now". and if you want to make me hasten, well..you chose the wrong way...cuz that way you make me back up.

 

I am bringing you the information, do what you like with it.

 

you still don't understand why i'm mad at you. you've understood nothing.

 

I've understood, I just don't think your reason for being has no basis - just like last time.

 

she wasn't defending me. she was talking about you and the way you talk.

 

No. She very explicitly told me not to call you a non-Muslim which amounts to defending you. She said nothing about the way I talked or argued with you.

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I've understood, I just don't think your reason for being has no basis
no...you just said: Then you have no reason to be mad at me if I called you a non-Muslim which means that i got mad at you because of this(which is not true). then....learn how to express yourself better. cuz i respond according to what you say.

 

enough going off topic now.

Edited by Elidicious

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:sl:

 

I will refrain from posting here again, but suffice it to say my post was to advise you to apply caution in what you say, as we do not know what is in people's hearts.

 

I did not state my opinion either way, so I kindly ask you to not read into what I may or may not have said.

 

:sl: and I ask forgiveness for what I have uttered that is erroneus or offensive.

 

P.S Elida, see there is a reason I stay away from these threads... lol.

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no...you just said: Then you have no reason to be mad at me if I called you a non-Muslim which means that i got mad at you because of this. then....learn how to express yourself better. cuz i respond according to what you say.

 

OK. God-willing I will. Now you do as I've advised you to. OK?

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Now you do as I've advised you to. OK?
i'll try.

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I wonder what happened to this verse in surat al furqan 32 :

æóÞóÇáó ÇáøóÃöíäó ßóÃóÑõæÇ áóæúáóÇ äõÒøöáó Úóáóíúåö ÇáúÞõÑúÂäõ ÌõãúáóÉð æóÇÃöÃóÉð ßóÃóáößó áöäõËóÈøöÊó Èöåö ÃõÄóÇÃóßó æóÑóÊøóáúäóÇåõ ÊóÑúÊöíáðÇ

Those who reject Faith say: "Why is not the Qur-an revealed to him all at once? We have revealed it like this(gradually) to strengthen your belief and we have recited to you slowly

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now...give your proofs to why God doesn't exist.. :sl:

I say that I'm an atheist because I don't believe in God. Not because I believe that he doesn't exist. The agnostic label would fit me just as well. I do not claim that god does not exist.

 

i know you're trying to say something, but i'm not getting it.

more explanations, please.

I tell you that there is a 50 foot tall bright orange cat living on a planet Alpha 50 billion light years away from us.

 

To believe that this cat does not exist requires that you know there is actually no such cat on the planet Alpha 50 billion light years away from us. That is, you need to be able to prove it by checking the entire planet for example.

 

To not believe in such a cat no reason is required at all. The point is that you need a logical reason to believe the cat exists. When you don't have a logical reason to believe the cat exists, then the default position is that you don't believe the cat exists.

 

My absence of belief in god is from finding no reason to believe in him in the first place. Not because I think he doesn't exist :sl:

I hope that made it clear.

 

let's take ....prayers. i pray to Him for something, and He does accomplish my prayers. isn't it a reason to believe? or you may say "ok....not all your prayers are accomplished" of course he wouldn't accomplish all of our prayers because that way we would be like..."oh ok..whatever...i pray to God and everything is solved". He tests you and so that's one of the reasons he doesn't accomplish some of our prayers.

The last line here makes your arguement meaningless (making it unfalsifiable). When X is true, god exists. When X is not true, god still exists but making X not true is part of gods test on us humans.

 

It's not a proof of god's existence when half of the arguement relies upon you accepting god's existence...

 

or let's talk about punishment. Everyone who's guilty is or will be punished for what he did (sooner or later). God finds his/her place in this world.(i'm not talking about the after-life cuz i don't really believe in it, yet...)...but ...if you think it...everyone who's been guilty is in jail or has died now. you may say "everyone dies..." but i'm talking about the way they die/or punished. Hussein, Milosevic, our dictator E.Hoxha(and let's not talk about other random guilty people...).
#1 - Several innocent people have gone to jail and millions of innocent people have died in horrible ways. The innocent getting punished like this is not consistent with your arguement.

#2 - There have been several "guilty" people that died normal deaths. i.e. most of the nazi's, and soldiers who have commited war crimes.

 

Yes everyone dies, but many guilty people die normal deaths and there are plenty of innocent people who have died in a horrible way (e.g. Hiroshima). This is a fact and it counters your arguement.

 

or the fact that medicine science hasn't given answer to some questions not because of the missing of technology or something..but because of the impossibility to explain some of the things they are questioning for.. so....(though they don't say it's up to God)...they leave the issue suspicious and they accept that there must be something they are un-able to give answer to.

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/God_of_the_gaps"]God of the gaps arguement.[/url] I think it should be self explanatory.

 

...duff, don't say these weren't enough.
One was factually wrong and the other one relied on accepting that god existed as part of the proof...

 

but i don't think your arguments will be more logical. which means...my arguments might not be logical at all and may be ridiculous. ....but i don't think you've got something better to say.

so taking you and me in comparison, i think i may win. laugh.gif.....thumbsup.gif lol......unsure.gif laugh.gif

I don't provide the kind of arguements your looking for. Consider me an agnostic if it helps. I don't believe god exists or does not exist.

 

Where is noxiouspython? He was working on a solid proof if I remember correctly. Something to do with infinity and time.

Edited by Duffman_

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Those who reject Faith say: "Why is not the Qur-an revealed to him all at once? We have revealed it like this(gradually) to strengthen your belief and we have recited to you slowly

mmm nice. didn't know about this. so i guess i don't have to hasten myself. is this what it means? :sl:

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Elida, don't waste your time with this. It's as pointless as a "The glass is half full/ half empty" argument.

 

:sl:

 

Salam.

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#1 - Several innocent people have gone to jail and millions of innocent people have died in horrible ways. The innocent getting punished like this is not consistent with your arguement.

#2 - There have been several "guilty" people that died normal deaths. i.e. most of the nazi's, and soldiers who have commited war crimes.

there's a reason beyond this and we don't know it. only He knows it.........so this is not an excuse.

what would be the meaning of the world if all good people lived and all the bad ones died? everything would be just simple. and that's not the purpose of life. life is not a paradise. Everything happens for a reason we don't know.

 

I hope that made it clear.
clear enough.

 

tell me...what kind of proofs do you want to believe in him? (i'm asking you out of my curiousity).

you wanna see him calling you "hey duffman here i am....look at me...goodmorning..." ?

that's why his name is God. he's the un-reachable.

Edited by Elidicious

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Elida, don't waste your time with this. It's as pointless as a "The glass is half full/ half empty" argument.
:sl: then why did the verse use to exist? Edited by Elidicious

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