Jump to content
Islamic Forum
anthony19832005

Can A Good Muslims Also Be Secularist?

Recommended Posts

2. Your above statement is sickening and extremely hypocritical, because you guys always fall-back on that to get away with murder.
"You guys"?

 

I have always been consistent. I do not believe that people of any religion have the right to tell people of another what to do, nor should anyone have implicit power over another person simply because of their religion.

 

I am against all forms of religious bigotry. I am against all forms of religious tyranny.

 

Do not even beging to speak to me of hypocrisy Thezman. I am not the one looking at the world as "us against them", you are. I have spoken out against the oppression of Muslims, just as I have spoken out against Muslims who want to oppress others so stop making these caustic comments in response to what I have said.

 

Look back at my posts Thezman. Read what I have said before. I know you have read plenty of them.

 

I am against laws that discriminate against Muslims and I have said that here. I am against laws that discriminate against non-Muslim also.

 

Non-Muslims commit an act against Muslims, and Muslims are to be forgiving.

 

Muslims commit an act against non-Muslims, and non-Muslims have the right to retaliate.

 

Give me an example where I have ever expressed such sentiments. You said this in response to my quote. Show me why.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PropellerAds

Are you trying to say thezman is a hypocrite ? LOL.......BULLSEYE -RIGHT ON TARGET .

 

Of that he is KING

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you trying to say thezman is a hypocrite ? LOL.......BULLSEYE -RIGHT ON TARGET .

 

Of that he is KING

maKKKo, I know that I've really gotten under your skin, when the only thing you can resort to, is creating similar screen names as mine :sl: :sl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not really zman , you provide the amusement , I'll provide the annoyance .

 

stick to the truth instead of your ;lies and propaganda , and I'll go away .

 

 

 

yours truly :

 

Makko

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not really zman , you provide the amusement , I'll provide the annoyance .

:sl: maKKKo, you aren't annoying, you're amusing.

 

Afterall, we elected you as the forums clown :j:

stick to the truth instead of your ;lies and propaganda , and I'll go away .

yours truly :

 

Makko

No maKKKo, please stay!

 

No one else can ever provide us with this much entertainment.

 

You know what?

 

I take it back.

 

The CIA & Mossad, aren't that stupid to employ you.

 

They'd never scrape the bottom for non-entities, such as yourself.

 

They sure as hell wouldn't want to damage their reputation any further :) :)

 

I can't wait for your next infantile reply.

 

Yours truly, the real deal: thezman :sl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding question of this thread, Its like saying can a good christian also be hindu?

 

-Niqaabi1210

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So are you saying that Muslims that live in the West should all be attempting to institue Sharia law and change the current system?

 

Do you believe that Westerners that move to Muslim nations have the right to try and remove Sharia when they move there?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Okay, Zman. respond to Livius.

I will, God Willing. Just give me a few days.

 

I'm going through his posts to find his examples...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So are you saying that Muslims that live in the West should all be attempting to institue Sharia law and change the current system?

 

Not reallly. I thought the discussion was about a "good muslim" being secularist, not about imposing Islamic system on non-muslims. A "muslim" by definition is one who submits to the will of Allah (swt) in all of his/her actions; in the way he prays, the way he fasts, the way he gives charity, the way he deals with his family, his spouse, his children, his neighbors, the way he interacts with society, with the masses, with the rulers of the land he lives in, the way he deals with people in business, the way he manages his finances, the way he involves himself in politics, the way he cleans himself, the way he takes shower, the way he dresses himself, the way he washes himself in the washroom, ..... you get the point.

 

- Niqaabi1210

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not reallly. I thought the discussion was about a "good muslim" being secularist, not about imposing Islamic system on non-muslims. A "muslim" by definition is one who submits to the will of Allah (swt) in all of his/her actions; in the way he prays, the way he fasts, the way he gives charity, the way he deals with his family, his spouse, his children, his neighbors, the way he interacts with society, with the masses, with the rulers of the land he lives in, the way he deals with people in business, the way he manages his finances, the way he involves himself in politics, the way he cleans himself, the way he takes shower, the way he dresses himself, the way he washes himself in the washroom, ..... you get the point.

 

- Niqaabi1210

 

 

Well....uh ...can you be secularist or not ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well....uh ...can you be secularist or not ?

 

lol, go to wikipedia to search the meaning of "secularist". Then read my post again, esp the line, "A "muslim" by definition is one who submits to the will of Allah (swt) in all of his/her actions".

 

- Niqaabi1210

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The simple fact is that people have more rights and freedoms today in the United States than non-Muslims did in Spain when it was ruled by Muslims. I don't care what the whitewashed version of history that you learned says.

The rights and freedoms that you are talking bout is a joke to world people.

 

I know it very well. I was not showing my ignorance of Muslims in Spain attacking France though. You asked when it had happened and I showed you. Are you being purposely obtuse about this Yasnov or are truly not keeping up with the conversation?
People were invading one another back then, if you didn't invade, sooner or later, you'll be invaded since there was no any international organization that controlled all those nations.

 

He does not say many things in this article, it does not mean that they are not true.

Of course he doesn't. You see that he didn't include the bombing of innocents of the two cities in Japan by the US as one example. He didn't include eitherh all of the double talks and double standards.

 

This is truly getting ridiculous. How deep does your denial go Yasnov?
We are comparing two governments here. I have given you examples that all of the barbarity in US history was committed by the legitimate US government and it happens on frequent basis. Now, please prove it that what happened with the Jews in 1066 in Granada was:

1. The result of the state's policy (as in the US case) instead of the jealousy of some ignorant Muslim grassroots/mobs in their reaction against a powerful and ostentatious Jewish vizier

2. Repeated or happened on frequent basis.

 

You asked for an example of when people were forced to convert and I showed you. Your quotes and sources have absolutely nothing to do with the quote from me that precedes it.

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yettheglobalist(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/DBWeb/StoryId.aspx?StoryId=3130"]My quote[/url] says: The Umayyad dynasty came to an end in 1013. It was destroyed by Islamic invaders from North Africa, who greatly weakened the Muslim rule in Spain, splitting Andalusia into a number of statelets. But even splintered, Muslim Spain remained tolerant, enlightened and prosperous.

 

Obviously you do not live in the United States. There are plenty of successful Muslims here and they are not considered terrorists.
There is a tendency that being religious Muslims is viewed more as being terrorists .... And there have been many cases of this

 

Great. In your reply you actually made my point for me. So much for your religious tolerance in Iran example you gave earlier.

Well, how much is US government tolerance toward communism and socialism?

 

You are correct, they have relaxed some of the travel restrictions. My examples do show that that they still have to jump through extra hoops to go where they want to, though.
Jump through exra hoops? What do you mean?

 

I am tired of doing your research for you. How about you do the research and get back to me. Show me I am wrong Yasnov.

I've given you (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetforward(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/articles/iranian-jews-reject-outside-calls-to-leave/"]link[/url] that refute your accusation below, so it is you who should do your own research and get back to me. Please prove the followings...

 

Most of them (Christians) are doing it for the economic reasons. That is not the main reason that Jews are leaving Iran. In fact it was mainly the wealthy ones that have left, many leaving behind their property in order to be able to leave

 

Wassalam,

Yasnov

Edited by Yasnov

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What is shows is that a significant portion of Muslims want to impose their values on societies that don't want them

Hindu can have their own laws in the in Indonesia and on the the Hindu Day of Silence they impose their way of life on Muslims, and no one makes a fuss bout that.

 

Obviously the Muslim people in Indonesia has more tolerance than you, Livius.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetthejakartapost(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/[email protected]&irec=0"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetthejakartapost(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/[email protected]&irec=0[/url]

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetthejakartapost(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/detailgeneral.asp?fileid=20070319145754&irec=2"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetthejakartapost(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/detailgenera...5754&irec=2[/url]

 

The West says "come and do as you want". The Muslims get here and cry "We are here now we want you to live like us".
One of the reasons for the early Europeans to migrate to the America is to be able to practice religion freely.

 

So are you saying that Muslims that live in the West should all be attempting to institue Sharia law and change the current system?

What current system? No one has asked them to rebel against the government. And are you saying Muslims in the West are not US citizens?

 

Do you believe that Westerners that move to Muslim nations have the right to try and remove Sharia when they move there?

Is he a citizen of the Muslim nation?

 

Wassalam,

Yasnov

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lol, go to wikipedia to search the meaning of "secularist". Then read my post again, esp the line, "A "muslim" by definition is one who submits to the will of Allah (swt) in all of his/her actions".
but one can submit to Allah in all their personal actions and beleifs, yet accept that their neighbour does not have to. Thus although the individual follows shariah, they can grasp that not all others have to - from this follows that a secular govt is not preventing a 'true moslem' from being a 'true moslem'.

 

is this not the case?

 

One of the reasons for the early Europeans to migrate to the America is to be able to practice religion freely.

 

LOL, good example. Do you think the european immigrants asked the native americans if they minded them following their own religion?

 

:sl:

 

 

---perhaps thats what theyre worried about. Classic projection problems. "If *we* did that to them, surely they will do that to *us*..."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
but one can submit to Allah in all their personal actions and beleifs, yet accept that their neighbour does not have to.

 

Source, please.

 

Salam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

source is the notion that Islam does not have to* be imposed upon others. How else can it be described?

 

 

 

*Islam should not be spread through the sword.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

source is the notion that Islam does not have to* be imposed upon others. How else can it be described?

 

 

 

*Islam should not be spread through the sword.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
source is the notion that Islam does not have to* be imposed upon others. How else can it be described?

*Islam should not be spread through the sword.

 

Sorry, misread your post as saying that one can't be a good Musim and also leave their neighbors alone. Well, we're on the same side on this issue. :sl:

 

Salam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Source, please.

 

Salam.

 

Common sense?

 

Can one be a good Muslim and not live in a theocratic totalitarian Islamic government?

 

 

 

 

YES![using large font size is not allowed]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry, misread your post as saying that one can't be a good Musim and also leave their neighbors alone. Well, we're on the same side on this issue. thumbsup.gif

 

Salam.

 

salaam layna, no worries. :sl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Common sense?

 

Can one be a good Muslim and not live in a theocratic totalitarian Islamic government?

YES![using large font size is not allowed]

 

Asalamu alaikum, brother. You missed my correction. Scroll up a bit.

 

Salam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Pete the Moslem".

 

i'm not sure why thats so amusing, it just is. :sl:

 

 

(no offence intended bro. :sl: )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Muuuusssssliiiimmm.

 

Salam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:sl:

 

 

:sl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×