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Homosexual couples win rights in Israel

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What is your culture Eoin? Yank is from your culture, but he doesn't share your views. Kale is from your culture, but she doesn't share your views. And not to mention many of my western friends who do not and would never share your views. Which culture are you talking about? The culture Evil that is spreading immorality and destroying the social fabric of the countries around the world?

 

It is people like you who are responsible for the degrading human values in the world. You are commenting on marriage in our culture? Should have looked up to high-school sex and teenage pregnancy statistics in your country before commenting on my culture. The concept of marriage and family are beyond your comprehension.  You are comparing matrimony to paedophilia? That just shows your idea of marriage and society. But these are normal human practices, and I don't expect people of abnormal preferences to understand it anyway.

So, so true. When I'm with my family in Cyprus we always have these conversations about how Americans and British just don't care about family at all. I mean, I'm very Libertarian - I agree with legalization of a lot of drugs e.t.c. But there are certain limits that have to be drawn, namely that morality should enter into the equation on certain issues, I mean, people may bang on about how kids should have the right to have Sex and nobody is attempting to deny them that right, and thats how it should be. However. This is negligible because if you are from a good family you have morals instilled in you and therefore the fact that you shouldnt have Sex at the age of 13 or something ridiculous like that should be a moral truism.

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PropellerAds

Peace,

 

So you think apart from it biological aspect, there's nothing wrong in Incest as well?

 

Apart from the biological aspect I see nothing 'wrong' about it. That said I'd probably have a mental breakdown if confronted by somebody who took part in it.

 

Now that's a false claim, you yourself provided me with some facts on homosexual activity in some animals, but that was far and wide, and quite a rare occurance even in animals. It was no at all 'Numerous', it was SOME.

 

How can you concede that homosexuality occurs in nature, yet say it is un-natural? Is there a prescribed number of cases of homosexuality you require before it becomes natural?

 

It is a fact that most psychological problems occur at an early age due to the environment we live in. What we live makes us. If you deprive a child the love of a normal human family, you cannot expect him to grow up to be normal. Not most of them. A child having two mothers or two fathers, unsure of his or her sexuality or what is right and what is wrong - that will be the future of the society.

 

My friend, I cannot accept a description of any human being as normal. If you're suggesting the human race would turn into lunatics, then I'd disagree. If your arguing that the human race will be more diverse in the future then I'd agree. Right and wrong in this country are decided by the law, within the confines of the law do whatever you like.

 

At least try to be honest. You specifically mentioned the false age accusation that is used by anti-Islamic propagandists. And don't wrongly use words like "Custom" or as if it is something forced upon Muslims. The concept of marraige in Islam is far wider than just a license for sex. Marriage is a noble act in Islam that saves people from committing from committing sinful acts. The age of marriage for women has varied from time to time and culture to culture. Marriage is the corner stone of society, do not degrade it by comparing to perversity.

 

Homosexuality is not just opposed by our culture, look around you, a farther West in the US there is a huge outcry against the homosexuality. Don't try to make it look like we are the only ones opposing it. And I am sure a majority of Scots oppose it too.

 

I honestly had no intention of drawing a comparison with the Prophet (pbuh). To be honest I chose the age 9 because that's when I reached puberty myself. You don't have to defend your marriage principles to me old chap. My point is and shall remain that anybody caught marrying a 9 year old in Glasgow would probably be lynched, therefore emphasizing that what is deemed perverse varies substantially between cultures and times. I don't think the majority of Scots 'oppose' homosexuality because it is heavily engrained that it's just something that some people are. Certainly they get a hard time for the 'fairy' stereotype, though I can't think of anyone who wants to see their rights curtailed.

 

You are for Homosexuality because both you and homosexualty are anti-religion. You have rebelled against religion hence, anything that the religion opposes, you feel your duty to support. This is a testament of that rebellion. The question is not whether homosexuality is wrong or not (it is wrong in the eyes of a vast majority of living creatures including insects and plants), the question is how far will you go with this rebellion against religion? You will only end up destroying your world.

 

I'm 'for' homosexuality because it is in my opinion a fact of life. I don't choose to oppose anybodys religion. You can do whatever you want within the law, and the law does not prohibit religious freedom, nor does the law prohibit homosexuality. I agree with lots of religious standpoints, such as helping the poor and showing respect for others, I don't just oppose religion for the sake of it.

 

If you categorize disagreeing with different parts of different religions rebellion. Then fair enough I'm a rebel. I don't tell anyone else how to live their life, and I don't let religion dictate to me how I live mine. I'll live my life according to the laws of this land, beyond that my own ethics.

 

Peace,

Eoin

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Guest Sulemaan
Peace,

Apart from the biological aspect I see nothing 'wrong' about it. That said I'd probably have a mental breakdown if confronted by somebody who took part in it.

So you say incest is alright, yet your reaction suggests that is wrong. I see some conflict here.

 

How can you concede that homosexuality occurs in nature, yet say it is un-natural? Is there a prescribed number of cases of homosexuality you require before it becomes natural?

Many abominations occur in nature, but that doesn't make them natural. Homosexuality is one of them.

My point is and shall remain that anybody caught marrying a 9 year old in Glasgow would probably be lynched, therefore emphasizing that what is deemed perverse varies substantially between cultures and times.

No, your point is baseless as you have a complete wrong notion of marraige. Marriage is not entirely a sex oriented act. There are other factors involved, hence it cannot be perversity. Homosexuality is entirely based on sex and as such is exclusive perversity. It can be compared to Paedophiliacs who molest 9 years and younger people, but they don't marry them.

I don't think the majority of Scots 'oppose' homosexuality because it is heavily engrained that it's just something that some people are. Certainly they get a hard time for the 'fairy' stereotype, though I can't think of anyone who wants to see their rights curtailed.

That's a sad picture of Scots you just painted. I had something different in mind.

I'm 'for' homosexuality because it is in my opinion a fact of life. I don't choose to oppose anybodys religion. You can do whatever you want within the law, and the law does not prohibit religious freedom, nor does the law prohibit homosexuality.

Homosexuality is against against the universal social norm; and as Yank says, it is unproductive to the society. Moreover, it will only help in breaking the traditional family life, which ensures the upbringing of proper human beings who carry on the cycle of human social life. Homosexuality doesn't even come in the picture of this cycle.

 

I agree with lots of religious standpoints, such as helping the poor and showing respect for others, I don't just oppose religion for the sake of it.

You believe in those things because you are basically a good man, which is mainly due to your upbringing, which in turn taught you the right from the wrong. Today, we know that these things are right, but the question is - who taught us? It was religion, God, who taught us what is right and what is wrong, until we reached a point where we say, "we don't need you anymore!" We are intelligent enough to carry it from here.

 

If you categorize disagreeing with different parts of different religions rebellion.

Peace,

Eoin

You are young, that's your problem. I hope in time you realize and understand that man does not have complete knowledge about himself, and hence, incapable of solving problems on his own. You will see, Inshallah.

 

By the way, I am sorry for my high-handed approach. I didn't know you are this young. I was treating you as an equal (in age). That does not mean you are any less capable of discussing these matters, no, you might have more knowledge and skill than me, but the extra years life teach a kind of wisdom that can never be learnt from books.

 

Peace and Regards

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Let me sneak in -

 

Those who support homosexuality must also support Pedophilia/Paedophilia (sexual preference for children). Perhaps, in the future we might also see the legalization of Pedophilia in israel.

 

 

Dear All,

 

I would advise you all not to be too judgemental, including you Yank. That is for God alone. I will say up front right now, that in no way do I condone homosexuality. However, I do not see why homosexual's should be treated as second-class citizens. You think that because you are not gay you are somehow better than them? Look at your own sins first; they are just as bad, but often just not as visible. It is like Jesus Himself said, when a crowd was preparing to stone a prostitute, He intervened, saying

 

"'If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.' Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, 'Woman, where are they? Has no-one condemned you?'

'No-one, sir' she said.

'Then neither do I condemn you,' Jesus declared. 'Go now and leave your life of sin.'" (John 8:7-11)

 

Clearly Jesus does not condone prostitution, but neither does He treat those who have sinned in such a way any differently to others. The same is true of homosexuals. Don't support it, fine, but it is no-ones place on earth to condemn them or treat them as anything less than equals.

 

All the best.

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Peace Sulemaan,

 

So you say incest is alright, yet your reaction suggests that is wrong. I see some conflict here.

 

To explain that I'd need to explain my moral beliefs. That is I don't believe a universal system of 'rights' and 'wrongs' exist, all of us as individuals have our own definitions based on our emotional responses to issues. For that reason it's my belief that I can't describe anybody elses beliefs or practices as 'wrong' if they don't harm another non-consentual person. The thought of incest is to me, and I imagine most people, utterly revolting. If you're talking to me on an individual level, then individually I consider it 'wrong', and I wouldn't think about doing it in a billion years. All the same I don't believe I have any right to legally impede other people doing it.

 

Many abominations occur in nature, but that doesn't make them natural. Homosexuality is one of them.

 

This comes down to a semantics argument I think. When I think of the term un-natural I think of acid rain caused by exhaust fumes. Without human intervention this would not happen, it is therefore un-natural.

When I think of 'natural', I think of tree's. tree's can exist without human intervention.

Homosexuality I interpret as natural seeing as it occurs outwith our human intervention in various species. Even more clearcut it is possible for some people to feel attracted to the same sex as themselves without consciously trying to think about it, in the same way I feel attracted to women.

 

No, your point is baseless as you have a complete wrong notion of marraige. Marriage is not entirely a sex oriented act. There are other factors involved, hence it cannot be perversity. Homosexuality is entirely based on sex and as such is exclusive perversity. It can be compared to Paedophiliacs who molest 9 years and younger people, but they don't marry them.

 

I take your point that marriage is not a solely sex orientated. However to regard homosexuality as such is a bit old-fashioned. I don't lay claim to know what enters the mind of a homosexual, but I know for fact that homosexuals can have long-lasting relationships which are about more than sex. As far as I can tell they seek the same companionship as heterosexual couples. As a result, I fail to see how to same sex adults can be compared to paedophiles, as the crime paedophiles commit is to illicit sex from somebody below an age of responsibility, i.e. illiciting sex without permission. As I don't regard sex outwith marriage as a crime, I therefore don't see the comparison between a paedophilic crime and homosexuality.

 

Homosexuality is against against the universal social norm; and as Yank says, it is unproductive to the society. Moreover, it will only help in breaking the traditional family life, which ensures the upbringing of proper human beings who carry on the cycle of human social life. Homosexuality doesn't even come in the picture of this cycle.

 

I see homosexuality as part of the universal social norm. It occurs internationally and has done since recorded history. Certainly homosexuals are unproductive in terms of offspring, so are many other groups such as those incapable of reproduction. It's a statement of fact, not a reason to outlaw the way gays wish to lead their lives.

As for bringing up 'proper' children to carry on the cycle of human social life... I have to ask you to extrapolate on your point?

 

By the way, I am sorry for my high-handed approach. I didn't know you are this young. I was treating you as an equal (in age). That does not mean you are any less capable of discussing these matters, no, you might have more knowledge and skill than me, but the extra years life teach a kind of wisdom that can never be learnt from books.

 

No apology necesarry, it's my own fault for being too controversial for my own good! Plus I doubt very much I have more knowledge or skill than you, though thanks for implying I might! Certainly being older you will have far more life experience's to contribute to discussions than I do, hopefully our discussions can improve help both our understandings of our respective opinions.

 

Peace,

Eoin

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Certainly homosexuals are unproductive in terms of offspring, so are many other groups such as those incapable of reproduction. It's a statement of fact, not a reason to outlaw the way gays wish to lead their lives.

 

Peace Eoin!

 

But unlike those who are incapable of reproduction, homosexuals are consciously making an effort not to engage themselves in the reproduction process of human species which is not healthy for our future as human.

 

Imagine everyone was homosexual, we'd become extinct immediately. You might say well that's unlikely....maybe, maybe not, but the point is that it has the potential to lead us there.

 

So as you can see it's a statement of both fact and reason, therefor it should be outlawed if we care about our species.

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Guest Sulemaan
Peace Sulemaan,

To explain that I'd need to explain my moral beliefs. That is I don't believe a universal system of 'rights' and 'wrongs' exist, all of us as individuals have our own definitions based on our emotional responses to issues.

 

Peace Eoin,

 

If it were up to each individual to decide what is right and what is wrong, then that would lead to chaos. The whole concept of laws is to regulate the affairs of men - however these laws have divine origin, because man suddenly didn't acquire the sense of justice, it was inculcated to him through religion.

If you're talking to me on an individual level, then individually I consider it 'wrong',

Why do you think it's wrong? Can you explain?

This comes down to a semantics argument I think. When I think of the term un-natural I think of acid rain caused by exhaust fumes. Without human intervention this would not happen, it is therefore un-natural.

Unnatural means that which is contrary to natural behavior.

Homosexuality I interpret as natural seeing as it occurs outwith our human intervention in various species.

Yet it is a rarity and something against the normal law of nature. Every species has male and female, even plants, and the natural union of male and female ensures the existence of all species and of nature itself. Homosexuality goes against this law of nature.

I therefore don't see the comparison between a paedophilic crime and homosexuality.

Paedophillia is sexual attraction to children, which is not normal, but it exists. Homosexuality is sexual attraction to the same sex, which is also not normal, but it exists as well.

I see homosexuality as part of the universal social norm. It occurs internationally and has done since recorded history.

If we make the occurance of an act through time and space a criterion for a social norm, than murder should be on the top of the list, because it is as old as and spread throughout the earth. Does that make murder a social norm?

Certainly homosexuals are unproductive in terms of offspring, so are many other groups such as those incapable of reproduction. It's a statement of fact, not a reason to outlaw the way gays wish to lead their lives.

Starlight has answered perfectly to this, I need add anything further.

As for bringing up 'proper' children to carry on the cycle of human social life... I have to ask you to extrapolate on your point?

If you see the statistcs, a vast majority of criminals and psychopaths come from broken families or a traumatic past. This is as a result of deteriorating social conditions. In order to ensure a birght future of our children, we educate them, teach them what is right and what is wrong, but what is more important is the process of growing up in a normal family or social environment itself. The love of a mother has no equal, and similarly no person can influence a child the way his/her father does. Growing up with normal parents also presents one with the different perspective of life. Sons usually follow their father and do labor work, while daughters usually help out their mothers. Both males and females of a family understand their respective roles in the circle of life, there is no insecurity and no internal conflict.

I do, hopefully our discussions can improve help both our understandings of our respective opinions.

 

Peace,

Eoin

 

Hopefully Inshallah, but I think you understand well that I will never respect this particular opinion of yours. :D I will continue to respect you and other aspects of your intellect though.

 

Regards

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:D

 

Sheesh .... (o_0) ... what else did you expect from israel :D ....

the next thing you know they will approve of GAY day ... just like the bogus mothers day and friends day !!!!

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Judism doesn't allow or approve of homosexuality this goes agianst the point of them being a Jewish state. Supposedly this topic went from that to explaining the rights of acts that are contrary to nature and its survivial as said by sis Starlight and taking us from a noble being to a creature who statisfies some needs.

 

British Christian, we have a right to judge in this case since the Creator already judge the actions of homosexuals. It is already known to us. Since this has gone off topic and some inappropriate discussions are occuring. This remains an "you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.google(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/search?q=Islamic+forum&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official"]Islamic forum[/url].

 

You wish to continue your discussion then use a PM. .

 

:D

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