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JCBeliever

Why Isn't Paul Considered A Prophet In Islam?

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Peace everyone,

 

Paul spent his life after his conversion to Christianity to spread the Gospel in many places. He was often almost killed by the Romans and angry mobs. I am curious why Paul is such a bad apple in Islamic thought. Why does he fail to be a respected prophet? He was a great example of a martyr who died for God.

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Didn't Paul teach that Jesus was a diety who died for humanity's sins? And by "Paul died for God", do you mean "Paul died for Jesus"?

 

Salam.

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And also upon you

 

1) Because God never said in the Qur'an that he is a Prophet

2) Because he preached something other than monotheism

3) Because there is no proof of his prophethood, no miracles

4) Because he fits perfectly the description of an Unbeliever

5) Because he teached countrary to the Islamic creed

Edited by Younes Ibn Abd' al-Aziz

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go and search my posts on paul , inspite of telling to million of times he really changed chrisitianity and how he has changed your new testament still you start a new topic saying paul is not considered prophet in Islam :sl:

 

he was one who claimed based on some nightmare (which he called dream :D) that jesus claimed divinity

 

 

PAUL KILLED SO MANY NAZARENE CHRISTIANS AND BURNED THEIR ORIGINAL BOOKS CONTAINING TEACHINGS GIVEN BY JESUS ETC STILL YOU CONSIDER HIM TO BE A PROPHEt :sl:

 

you people hate him or love him for spoiling the teachings of jesus ? :j:

 

i regret your thinking about him where many of christian friends who have read history consider him as one of predicted anti-christs who destroyed the teachings of jesus and here you sit and start a topic saying that why he is not prophet in Islam :no:

Edited by mac111

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go and search my posts on paul , inspite of telling to million of times he really changed chrisitianity and how he has changed your new testament still you start a new topic saying paul is not considered prophet in Islam :sl:

 

he was one who claimed based on some nightmare (which he called dream :D) that jesus claimed divinity

PAUL KILLED SO MANY NAZARENE CHRISTIANS AND BURNED THEIR ORIGINAL BOOKS CONTAINING TEACHINGS GIVEN BY JESUS ETC STILL YOU CONSIDER HIM TO BE A PROPHEt :sl:

 

you people hate him or love him for spoiling the teachings of jesus ? :j:

 

i regret your thinking about him where many of christian friends who have read history consider him as one of predicted anti-christs who destroyed the teachings of jesus and here you sit and start a topic saying that why he is not prophet in Islam :no:

 

Whatever reasons you have against Paul, this can't be one of them. Paul never killed anyone. he was even a martyr. I was interested to know if you would revere Paul's martyrdom for God as if he was a prophet in Islam. Yes, I notice now it was awkward asking if he should be a prophet in Islam.

 

Paul also had an intimite encounter with the Divine as you believe Muhammed had. How can Muhammed have seen Gabriel in a divine vision and Paul not see Jesus in a divine vision? There are some important things to discusss about Paulm which we can do here.

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Whatever reasons you have against Paul, this can't be one of them. Paul never killed anyone. he was even a martyr. I was interested to know if you would revere Paul's martyrdom for God as if he was a prophet in Islam. Yes, I notice now it was awkward asking if he should be a prophet in Islam.

 

Paul harassed the early Christian communities and was a fierce adversary of theirs, so believing that he'd burn their books is not unbelievable. As for him killing people, I'm not sure about that. I guess he's innocent untill proven guilty.

 

Paul also had an intimite encounter with the Divine as you believe Muhammed had. How can Muhammed have seen Gabriel in a divine vision and Paul not see Jesus in a divine vision? There are some important things to discusss about Paulm which we can do here.

 

Funny, I asked one of the Christians on this board, Shadow, about this.

 

I'll tell you why it is impossible for Paul to have seen the Messiah(pbuh). First of all, Paul had no proof of this. Where were his miracles? What was Moses(pbuh) given so that the people would believe that he had Divine encounter? Miracles. Where are Paul's? Are they testable today? Can they be shown to come from an authenticly preserved and trustworthy source?

 

Second of all, the fact that Jesus(pbuh) is a Deity goes against Islamic creed, therefore Paul didn't have a Divine encounter.

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Paul harassed the early Christian communities and was a fierce adversary of theirs, so believing that he'd burn their books is not unbelievable. As for him killing people, I'm not sure about that. I guess he's innocent untill proven guilty.

Funny, I asked one of the Christians on this board, Shadow, about this.

 

Paul had no authority to burn people's books. He wasn't a king or anything. All he could do was warn people and write letters.

 

I'll tell you why it is impossible for Paul to have seen the Messiah(pbuh). First of all, Paul had no proof of this. Where were his miracles? What was Moses(pbuh) given so that the people would believe that he had Divine encounter? Miracles. Where are Paul's? Are they testable today? Can they be shown to come from an authenticly preserved and trustworthy source?

 

Second of all, the fact that Jesus(pbuh) is a Deity goes against Islamic creed, therefore Paul didn't have a Divine encounter.

 

So you don't believe Paul dying for God is true martyrdom, is that what you are saying?

 

Two people saw Paul's bright light and thunder, but only he could see and hear the divine message. Did anyone else see Muhammed's divine encounters?

Paul also healed many people miraculously.

 

Maybe Jesus is divine then. Or maybe a Jinn appeared to Paul, you can make your own argument, it won't be offensive to me. What I'm asking is if you believe Paul believed he was doing the right thing and died for God as a martyr.

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Paul was a thorn in Christianity... he was a bit of a rockhead... even Jesus was fed-up with the bloke.

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Paul had no authority to burn people's books. He wasn't a king or anything. All he could do was warn people and write letters.

 

Honestly, Paul was a persecutor:

 

As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison. (Acts 8:3)

 

I don't think that entering Christian people's houses and emprisoning them amounts to just warning and writing letters. We are speaking of Paul before he was a Chrisitian.

 

So you don't believe Paul dying for God is true martyrdom, is that what you are saying?

 

If Paul indeed preached un-Islamic things then, no.

 

Two people saw Paul's bright light and thunder, but only he could see and hear the divine message. Did anyone else see Muhammed's divine encounters?

Paul also healed many people miraculously.

 

People saw when the Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) recieved inspiration. Some Companions(ra) saw the Angel Gabriel(pbuh) as a man, but not in his angelic form. Even the Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) didn't see Gabriel(pbuh) much in his angelic form.

 

Where is this thing told about Paul seeing lights and healing people? Was it transmitted by known individuals? Who reported these incidents? In Islamic scholarship if the Hadith(saying, story)'s transmitters are anonymous then there remains a question mark over it, no matter what the content is.

 

Then there is the next possible option, is the inspired Word of God? If so, how can we test that it's the Word of God? Where are the miracles?

 

Maybe Jesus is divine then. Or maybe a Jinn appeared to Paul, you can make your own argument, it won't be offensive to me. What I'm asking is if you believe Paul believed he was doing the right thing and died for God as a martyr.

 

All religions have these apparations, they are not proof for the religions validity. Islam has an explanation for these apparitions, the Jinn. It most likely that a Jinn appeared to Paul or there might be even the possibility that a Jinn possessed him, but I don't think that he was possessed based on the NT, he was just misled by the Jinn.

 

Yes, I think that Paul believed that he was doing the right thing and was on a mission for God, atleast based on the NT.

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:sl:

 

Simple: It's God's choice to make prophets not ours. If He didn't tell us that Paul was a prophet then we accept it as such. No arguments and no nothing. Just like we don't say Buddha was a prophet because he preached peace and this and that, because we haven't been informed of his prophethooh then don't question it.

 

 

I don't see the point of having a debate on this issue.

 

 

 

The fact that it says paul did/said many wrong this [islamically] does not stand for one simple reason, the New Testament also claims that Jesus [pbuh] was the son of God. So you can't take NT as a proof, Islamically speaking. He could have been one of the most pious people or the most evil of people according to the bible, it just doesn't matter when talking about this, we don't know.

 

 

I hope that was sufficiently clear.

 

w/salaam

Edited by noxiouspython

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1.All those who debate about religion are not Prophets....

2.According to Islam, all prophets preached that there was only one God.

3. If he is a prophet, he would be given a new book and law.

Edited by vishah

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3. If he is a prophet, he would be given a new book and law.

 

:sl:

 

Bro, this is not true. The Children of israel had Prophets(pbut) after Moses(pbuh), yet they still followed the Law given to Moses(pbuh).

 

PS: The Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) said that there was no Prophet between him and Jesus(pbuh).

Edited by Younes Ibn Abd' al-Aziz

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:sl: brothers and sisters in Islam

 

People saw when the Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) recieved inspiration. Some Companions(ra) saw the Angel Gabriel(pbuh) as a man, but not in his angelic form. Even the Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) didn't see Gabriel(pbuh) much in his angelic form.

 

Also, the miracle of splitting the moon in half, curing the ill by the will of Allah, the revealing of future events to Muhammad (peace and blessins be upon him), by revelations from Allah, many of which have happened in the past and which we can see happening right under our noses in our present time.

That's not to mention the Qur'aan itself, and many more things.

Edited by xXxXMuslima-4-LifeXxXx

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Paul never knew Isa (pbuh) or Jesus, never heard him preach, etc. How can this guy know what Prophet Isa taught?

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Paul did persecute the Christians because he was a zealous Jew. Still when you say that Paul never knew Jesus you would be wrong. I know Jesus, I know God. When you accept Jesus as you lord and savior and ask for the forgiveness of your sins the Holy Spirit comes upon you; you become connected to God. This is how Paul knew who Jesus was and how I know who Jesus is. Also God will use however He chooses to be His prophet. Just because a human thinks the person is unfit doesn't mean that God doesn't have a plan for Him. Everyone can be redeemed because nothing is too much for God. We know what Jesus taught because of the New Testament which is backed up by the Old Testament. We also know because we are changed by the Lord Jesus Christ. My life is enough proof that what the Bible says about God is true. With the guidance of the great consoler the Holy Spirit we are always in contact with God who tells us what He wants. I can truly say I know Him and that he called me out.

 

You should get to know Him. You guys have a great day. I hope that God gives you peace and Love

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Paul also had a powerful vision of Jesus, which changed him. I mean, you don't go from avid persecutor to avid prosetylizer of that same religion overnight unless some divine encounter takes place. That's a proof that many might find more convincing than the Quran. Paul really pushes his enounter to win people over.

Edited by JCBeliever

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Paul also had a powerful vision of Jesus, which changed him. I mean, you don't go from avid persecutor to avid prosetylizer of that same religion overnight unless some divine encounter takes place. That's a proof that many might find more convincing than the Quran. Paul really pushes his enounter to win people over.

 

Even if I saw a vision of Buddha and went overnight into "a saint" it won't mean that it is the Truth.

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Paul also had a powerful vision of Jesus, which changed him. I mean, you don't go from avid persecutor to avid prosetylizer of that same religion overnight unless some divine encounter takes place. That's a proof that many might find more convincing than the Quran. Paul really pushes his enounter to win people over.

 

Is that enough to make a man a prophet in Islam? Having powerful visions of Jesus?

 

He taught that Jesus was Divine, a belief that is completely contrary to what we Muslims believe. That is the most clear reason why he wasn't a prophet.

 

Salam.

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I don't like to blow my own trumpet, but perhaps the answer to this question may lie in this thread started by me: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=28610"]The Gospel of Paul - Paul's Different Gospel[/url]

 

It may also help to explain why Christians (or those who claim to really follow Jesus) shouldn't follow Paul's "teachings" of Jesus, which were actually really different from the teachings of Jesus.

Edited by yusufar

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Bro, this is not true. The Children of israel had Prophets(pbut) after Moses(pbuh), yet they still followed the Law given to Moses(pbuh).

 

Ya thats true. But I did not say that after the new law has been sent, the previous one becomes void, unless it is announced by the latter prophet. According to my knowledge, every prophet was given a book as a guidance from God, to His followers.

 

And Allah knows Best.

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Ya thats true. But I did not say that after the new law has been sent, the previous one becomes void, unless it is announced by the latter prophet. According to my knowledge, every prophet was given a book as a guidance from God, to His followers.

 

And Allah knows Best.

 

:sl:

 

You are right, a Law becomes void only by Divine Revelation. Only Messengers(pbut) were given Books. All Messengers are Prophets(pbut) though, but not every Prophet is a Messenger. For example Aaron(pbuh) was a Prophet and didn't recieve a Book, while Moses(pbuh) was Messenger and was given the Book.

Edited by Younes Ibn Abd' al-Aziz

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All Messengers are Prophets(pbut) though, but not every Prophet is a Messenger.

 

Exactly.... Exactly.....

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Paul spent his life after his conversion to Christianity to spread the Gospel in many places. He was often almost killed by the Romans and angry mobs. I am curious why Paul is such a bad apple in Islamic thought. Why does he fail to be a respected prophet? He was a great example of a martyr who died for God.

 

Apart from the strange question which implies that a good person and a martyr must be looked at as prophets, and ignores the differences between them; if you are referring to Paul the Corruptor, read (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_outstead.googlepages(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/ptc.htm"]this[/url].

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If you are too busy to read the whole page, read these quotations against Paul:

 

"Paul was the great Coryphaeus, and first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus."

(Thomas Jefferson, The Great Thoughts by George Sildes, Ballantine Books, New York, 1985, p.208)

 

“If Christianity needed an Anti-Christ, they need look no further than Paulâ€

(The English philosopher Jeremy Bentham 1748-1832)

 

“Paul created a theology of which none but the vaguest warrants can be found in the words of Christ…..Fundamentalism is the triumph of Paul over Christ.â€

(Will Durant - Philosopher)

 

"Paul's words are not the Words of God. They are the words of Paul- a vast difference."

(Bishop John S. Spong, Episcopal Bishop of Newark - Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, p. 104, Harper San Francisco, 1991)

 

"Paul insists that there is only one 'gospel of Christ' (Galatians 1:7), so why did later Christians accept as 'Scripture' four written gospels?"

(Graham N. Stanton, “The Gospels and Jesusâ€, The Oxford Bible Series (1989), p.125)

 

"Where possible he (Paul) avoids quoting the teaching of Jesus, in fact even mentioning it. If we had to rely on Paul, we should not know that Jesus taught in parables, had delivered the sermon on the mount, and had taught His disciples the 'Our Father.' Even where they are specially relevant, Paul passes over the words of the Lord."

(Albert Schweitzer, The Mysticism of Paul the Apostle, p. 171)

 

"What kind of authority can there be for an 'apostle' who, unlike the other apostles, had never been prepared for the apostolic office in Jesus' own school but had only later dared to claim the apostolic office on the basis on his own authority? The only question comes to be how the apostle Paul appears in his Epistles to be so indifferent to the historical facts of the life of Jesus....He bears himself but little like a disciple who has received the doctrines and the principles which he preaches from the Master whose name he bears."

(Ferdinand Christian Baur, Church History of the First Three Centuries)

 

"Paul, not Jesus, was the founder of Christianity as a new religion which developed away from both normal Judaism and the Nazarene variety of Judaism."

(Hyam Maccoby, Paul: The Mythmaker and the Invention of Chrisianity, p. 16)

 

"No sooner had Jesus knocked over the dragon of superstition than Paul boldly set it on its legs again in the name of Jesus." (George Bernard Shaw)

 

"Paul did not desire to know Christ. Paul shows us with what complete indifference the earthly life of Jesus was regarded.... What is the significance for our faith and for our religious life, the fact that the Gospel of Paul is different from the Gospel of Jesus?

The attitude which Paul himself takes up towards the Gospel of Jesus is that he does not repeat it in the words of Jesus, and does not appeal to its authority.... The fateful thing is that the Greek, the Catholic, and the Protestant theologies all contain the Gospel of Paul in a form which does not continue the Gospel of Jesus, but displaces it."

(The Quest for the Historical Jesus, Albert Schweitzer)

 

There is not one word of Pauline Christianity in the characteristic utterances of Jesus.... There has really never been a more monstrous imposition perpetrated than the imposition of Paul’s soul upon the soul of Jesus.... It is now easy to understand how the Christianity of Jesus... was suppressed by the police and the Church, while Paulinism overran the whole western civilized world, which was at that time the Roman Empire, and was adopted by it as its official faith.â€

(George Bernard Shaw, Androcles and the Lion)

 

“Paul abolished the Law, which was followed and preached by Jesus (pbuh), and corrupted the whole religion, giving it a new form. The main ambition behind all this was, in his own words, “to win a larger number†of followers; the followers of a new religion “the Pauline Christianityâ€.

(Dr. Roshan Enam, Follow Jesus or Follow Paul, p. 69)

 

“From the time Jesus left earth to the second half of the Second century, there was a struggle between two factions. One was what one might call Pauline Christianity and the other Judeo Christianity. It was only very slowly that the first supplanted the second, and Pauline Christianity triumphed over Judeo Christianityâ€.

(Dr. Maurice Bucaille, The Bible, The Quran, and Science, p. 67)

 

"Thus, quite soon after Jesus's disappearance from earth, there was a definite and widening divergence between the followers of Jesus and the Pauline Church, which was later to become known as the Roman Catholic Church. Differences between the two were not only evident in life-style and belief, but were also clearly delineated geographically. As the Pauline Church grew more established, it became increasingly hostile to the followers of Jesus. It aligned itself more and more with the rulers of the Roman Empire, and the persecution which to begin with had been directed at all who called themselves Christians, now began to fall mainly on those who affirmed the Divine Unity. Attempts began to be made to change their beliefs and forcefully to remove those who refused to do so, together with the books they used."

(Muhammad Ataur-Raheem, Jesus, Prophet of Islam)

 

“More and more people are now aware that the Christianity they know has little to do with the original teaching of Jesus. During the last two centuries the research of the historians has left little room for faith in the Christian “mysteriesâ€, but the proven fact that the Christ of the established Church has almost nothing to do with the Jesus of history does not in itself help Christians towards the Truth. The present dilemma of the Christians is illustrated by what the Church historians of this present century writeâ€.

(Muhammad Ataur- Rahim, Jesus, Prophet of Islam, 1992 edition, p. 13)

 

"Let the reader contrast the true Christian standard with that of Paul and he will see the terrible betrayal of all that the Master taught.... For the surest way to betray a great Teacher is to misrepresent his message.... That is what Paul and his followers did, and because the Church has followed Paul in his error it has failed lamentably to redeem the world.... The teachings given by the blessed Master Christ, which the disciples John and Peter and James, the brother of the Master, tried in vain to defend and preserve intact were as utterly opposed to the Pauline Gospel as the light is opposed to the darkness."

(Rev. V.A. Holmes-Gore: Christ or Paul?)

Edited by cooljazzman

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