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Grenville

Can I Be A Muslim And A Christian?

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Hi Everyone:

 

I am a Christian and I wanted to know why Muslims appear to generally distrust Christians and Jews. I therefore read the Koran and published my findings in three articles in our local newspaper. I think that I understand where the distrust comes from, and I would welcome your comments, especially if I have inadvertently misunderstood something in the Koran. Please see the following:

 

researching.wordpress######/2007/04/11/Islam-in-the-balance-part-1/

 

I have read the Bible about 20 times and the Koran 3 times. The evidence supports Mohammed being a Prophet sent by God - which I have come to believe. I have found that this belief does not conflict with any of my Christian beliefs. True Muslims must therefore be my brothers and sisters.

 

Regards,

Grenville

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PropellerAds

Hi Everyone:

 

It seems the ".com" did not show up after "researching.wordpress" on the link.

 

Regards,

Grenville

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Peace!

 

Well, you cant really be Muslim and Christian at the same time. For example, Christians believe in the trinity and Muslims dont.

 

Muslims believe in everything that Christians ORIGINALLY believed and that which was taught by Eesa (as). However the Christians of today are not following the true teachings of Eesa therefore in order to do so you should follow the way of life prophet Muhammad (saw) brought to us.

 

Allah has showed us the way and it is up to us to follow it.

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Hi Fisabilillah:

 

Not believing in the trinity does not disqualify you from being a Christian. Did you read the articles?

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"http://######researching.wordpress#####/2007/04/11/Islam-in-the-balance-part-1/"]######researching.wordpress###

##/2007/04/1...balance-part-1/[/url]

 

Regards,

Grenville

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Hi All:

 

It seems that I will have to post the article here since the link is not working:

---------------

Dear Readers:

 

Following the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings in 2001, there has been considerable debate on Islam. Some argue that it is a religion that is used to justify acts of terror against Jews and Christians, while others argue that it is a religion of peace. I therefore obtained a copy of the Koran and read it.

 

The Koran, while acknowledging exceptions, does not generally view most Jews and Christians positively, and Muslims are not encouraged to trust them. The Koran uses three main arguments to justify this apparent distrust. In comparing the teachings of the Koran with those of the Bible, it seems that these arguments can be effectively addressed. It is my sincere hope that addressing them will lead to a dissolution of much of the distrust that has existed between these three religions, a distrust that has at times been allowed to fester into hatred with predictable results.

 

Today, we shall focus on the first of the three arguments. It results from the perception that neither the Jewish nor Christian religions formally accepted that Mohammed was God’s prophet or messenger. We shall therefore examine whether it is likely from the Jewish and Christian perspectives that Mohammed was a prophet sent by God. To make this determination, we need to start approximately 4,000 years ago with the patriarch Abraham.

 

According to the Biblical account, God called Abraham to be a father of many nations, inter alia, because of his commitment to passing on good cultural values to the next generation. Abraham and his wife Sarah were old and Sarah was barren, so Sarah allowed Abraham to go into her maid, Hagar, who conceived and bore Ishmael. When Ishmael was 14 years old, Sarah also conceived and bore Isaac. Sarah then asked Abraham to send Hagar and Ishmael away so that Ishmael would not share in Isaac’s inheritance.

 

Abraham was very disappointed since he loved his first-born; however, God promised Abraham that He would make Ishmael a great nation. God also made this promise to Hagar before and after she was sent away. Isaac later had a son called Jacob whom God later renamed israel. When Jacob was 15 years old, Abraham died and was buried by both of his sons, Ishmael and Isaac.

 

For the next 2,000 years, the israelites frequently engaged in irresponsible cultural practices and rejected God. God however remembered his promise to Abraham and frequently sent prophets to call them back to a relationship with Himself, and to encourage them to follow responsible cultural practices. Approximately 2,000 years after God called Abraham, Jesus the promised Messiah was sent.

 

God promised that He would make israel a great nation, and sent prophets to them when they strayed from fulfilling their purpose. God also promised that He would make Ishmael a great nation. It is therefore not inconceivable that He would also have sent prophets to the Ishmaelites if they strayed from fulfilling their purpose. If we accept this reasoning, then the question that begs an answer is: was it likely that Mohammed was one of those prophets sent by God to the Ishmaelites?

 

Mohammed essentially encouraged the Ishmaelites to return to the religion of Abraham and worship one God, who was the God of Abraham, the Jews and the Christians. He also encouraged the Ishmaelites to adopt responsible cultural practices. He further admonished them to believe in the Jewish Torah and the Christian Gospels, and to believe in the Messiah Jesus who was born of the Virgin Mary. Mohammed also warned the people that there was a resurrection and a judgement where everyone’s eternal future would be determined.

 

Since what Mohammed preached is not inconsistent with what the prophets to the israelites preached, it is conceivable that God sent Mohammed as a prophet to call the Ishmaelites back to a relationship with Himself. That Mohammed was not recognised as a prophet by Jewish and Christian religious leaders during his lifetime should not distract the Ishmaelites from pursuing a relationship with God. However a festering distrust of or hatred for another group of people does not encourage such a relationship.

 

Next week - the second argument.

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Not believing in the trinity does not disqualify you from being a Christian.

Wouldn't this be against the doctrines of vast majority of Christians.?

If you intend by the term "Christian" , the original teachings of Jesus Christ which would be Monotheism and it would contradict mainstream Christian doctrines of today.

Mohammed's call is not limited to the Ishmaelites or the Arabs, Islam spread outside the Arab lands even during the time of the Prophet himself

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original christians i.e. the nazarenes have original teachings of prophet jesus which all prophets said i.e.

 

People Believe and worship ONE GOD Allah ( in bible written different as Alah or Elo or Elah etc) and follow the commandments given to us by Allah as way for you to live your life.

 

No prophet claimed divinity . This is what original christians were on. Later some confusions started of associating partners to God some making prophets equal to God or prophets as God themselves which is all WRONG.

 

Allah is Alone , No partners to Him and all prophets including prophet mohammed , prophet jesus , prophet abraham etc (peace be upon them all ) are slaves and messengers of Allah

 

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him.

 

 

So original christians [ who were on correct religion in their time during era between jesus and mohammed (peace be upon them) ] who come to know about completion of religion with the last prophet i.e. mohammed (peace be upon him) with the final testament Quran and accept it and follow it inshaAllah will be successful . Because we are not here to pick and choose as we like .

 

We should be COMPLETELY submitted to will of Allah :sl:

Edited by PeaceAll

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Hi Al-Malabari & PeaceAll:

 

Just to clarify a few things.

 

1. Accepting Mohammed as a prophet is not against the doctrine of any church that I am aware of.

 

2. I understood that Mohammed principally called Arabs first back to a relationship with God, then others. Just like Jesus was sent first to "the lost sheep of israel", and then to others.

 

3. There is no prophet that Christians claim as divine. I have yet to hear or read anyone even remotely claim that Abraham, or any prophet identified in the Bible was divine. You may have been misled in this regard.

 

You should read the second article which deals with the second issue of whether the Jewish and Christian religious leaders knowingly falsified their religion and made it inconsistent with the religion of Abraham.

 

researching.wordpress(dot)com/2007/04/11/Islam-in-the-balance-part-2/

 

Replace the "(dot)" with a "."

 

Regards,

Grenville

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There is no prophet that Christians claim as divine. I have yet to hear or read anyone even remotely claim that Abraham, or any prophet identified in the Bible was divine. You may have been misled in this regard.

 

Why do they claim prophet jesus to be divine then ?

 

Whereas there is not a single verse in bible that Jesus ever said worship me . why christians worship jesus whereas the God of prophet jesus and all other prophets , has more right to be worshipped?

 

Mathew 19:16-17 -

Now behold, one came and said to Jesus, “Good master, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life? â€So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.â€

Like every prophet , Jesus also ordered keeping of commandments of God to attain salvation.

 

Please read the BIG difference in translation

 

King James Version

 

Acts 3:26 - Unto you first God, having raised up his son Jesus, sent him

to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

 

 

New King James Version

 

Acts 3:26 - To you first, God, having raised up His servant Jesus, sent

him to bless you, in turning every one of you away from his iniquities.

 

In the KJV, we find that Jesus is God's Son. In the NKJV, we find that He is

God's servant. These are clearly not the same! The Greek word found in the text

here is "pais". It can be used in Greek for either "son" or "servant." So greek translator went for "son" it was befitting their earlier concept regarding zeus and hercules in their mythology

 

All prophets have been notified as servants of God including jesus

 

Mathew 23:9

"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father which is in heaven."

From this verse you will note that fatherhood and sonship is meant to be the relationship between the God and His servants. It is meant in a general sense for all and not for Jesus only. Father word is used for priests also by some christians the reason being only for giving respect and honor.

Acts 3:13

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.

 

The overall stand of Jesus (peace and blessings of God be upon him) in Islam is confirmed in this verses of quran

Translation Quran 4:171

“………...Christ Jesus the son of Mary was a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which he bestowed upon Mary, and a spirit preceding from Him: so believe in Allah and his messengers. Say not "Three": desist!, it is better for you, for Allah is one God, Glory be to Him, Far exalted is He above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and the earth. And enough is Allah as a disposer of affairs."

Edited by PeaceAll

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Go ahead. If you become a Muslim in all aspects, such as belief, and actions, all is good. It's not what you call yourself that matters, it's what you believe in/do. Just get in touch with an Islamic scholar/imam and check if your beliefs would classify you as a Muslim. If you hold the majority Christian beliefs of Jesus (peace be upon him) being son of God, etc, then that might be a problem.

 

May God make it easy.

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Peace,

I'll agree w/K-meleon... if you feel you are Muslim too, then go ahead and submit to Islam and I encourage you to read not just the Qur'an but also it's interpretation / commentary as there is much to gain from it.

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Hi PeaceAll:

 

I noted in my last post that no prophet identified in the Bible has ever been claimed as divine. I was not talking about Jesus for He is the Messiah - more than a Prophet. I understand that the unique relationship that Jesus has with God is a contentious issue. I addressed it in the 3rd article. Did you read it?

 

I will reproduce the second article below just in case you had problems accessing the link.

 

To K-Melon: Can you recommend an imam who has read the Bible in its entirety at least 5 times? It is very easy to take verses out of context if you are not familiar with the whole book. This applies to the Bible as well as to the Koran.

 

Regards,

Grenville

----------

 

Dear Readers:

 

Last week we addressed the first of three main arguments that the Koran describes to justify an apparent distrust of Jews and Christians. We reasoned that it was conceivable that God sent Mohammed to invite the Ishmaelites back to a relationship with Himself.

 

Today we shall address the second argument, which is that the Jewish and Christian religious leaders knowingly falsified their religion and made it inconsistent with the religion of Abraham. We shall examine whether it is likely that the teachings of the Jewish and Christian religious leaders, around the time that Mohammed was alive, were consistent with their faiths.

 

Abraham was called a friend of God, which essentially describes the personal relationship between himself and God, a relationship to which Jews, Christians and Muslims aspire. When the israelites strayed from this relationship, God considered their behaviour adulterous, and sent prophets to invite them to return to Him. God summarised their behaviour through His prophet Isaiah: “These people draw near to me with their mouth and honour Me with their lips but their heart is far from Me, And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.â€

 

When Jesus arrived approximately 2,000 years after Abraham, he found a respected religious leadership. This leadership effectively controlled the people through strict adherence to religious traditions that were inconsistent with their faith. Jesus summarised their behaviour by saying: “You have made the commandment of God no effect by your tradition.†The harshest words found in the Bible are actually mentioned by Jesus, and are reserved for religious leaders who distract people from a personal relationship with God in this manner. Here is a sample of His words from Matthew Chapter 23.

 

“For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves will not lift them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do to be seen by men. Woe to you, for you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. You travel land and sea to win one convert, and when he is won, you make him twice a son of hell as yourselves. You also outwardly appear righteous to men but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. How can you escape the condemnation of hell.â€

 

Predictably, the religious leaders plotted to kill Him.

 

Approximately 600 years later, Mohammed appears to have encountered a Jewish and Christian leadership that exhibited similar incongruous behaviour. He noted: “They took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides God. Verily there are many of the rabbis and monks who devour the wealth of the mankind in falsehood and hinder them from the way of God. O people of the scripture, why do you mix truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know.â€

 

The behaviour of the Christian religious leadership described in the Koran, is not inconsistent with that described in a reading of Church history between 300 and 600 AD. The dominant Church leadership of that time appeared to concentrate mainly on religious doctrine and ritual, amassing wealth, and pursuing state political power.

 

The behaviour of these religious leaders was therefore not in accordance with their faith. However, that does not mean that their faith is corrupt. Despite Jesus’ very harsh words, He still encouraged the people to follow the scriptures taught by the religious leaders, but not to follow their corrupt or hypocritical behaviour.

 

If the Koran’s distrust was intended to discourage the Ishmaelites from committing the same error as the Jews and Christians, then it would appear to be justified. This error being that they allowed themselves to be controlled by religious leaders, who distracted them from a personal relationship with God by burdensome religious traditions. One of the roles of religious leaders is to liberate people to cultivate a personal relationship with God their Creator, not to attempt to control them. The most effective actions for resisting a controlling or hypocritical religious leadership are for persons to cultivate a personal relationship with God and to read the Bible for themselves.

 

Next week we shall address the third argument – worshipping the Messiah Jesus.

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Sorry, I haven't read all of the posts. I stopped when Grenville said “Not believing in the trinity does not disqualify you from being a Christian“. That is wrong. If you have truly given your life to Christ then you will understand the trinity. The reason is the only way to be forgiven of your sins is to believe that Jesus is God's only begotten son and he came down to die for our sins. Then three days after his death he was risen with all power and glory in his hands. Once you repent and give your entire life to God then you will receive the only spirit. Which will be your comforter and interceder while you are on earth. You must believe in all three forms of God. If you don't you are rejecting God as a whole. Also Muhammad doesn't follow the teachings of Christianity. The fact that the Qu’ran says that Jesus never died on the cross and the Bible says that He died makes our beliefs different. Since Christians believe that the only why to be forgiven of all sin forever is through Christ’s death on the cross makes Christianity and Islam incompatible. It doesn't mean the people that believe are incompatible it just mean that their faiths are not compatible.

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Disbelieving in the trinity doesnt automatically make you a non-christian. Perhaps not one of the mainstream ones but since christianity started a series of different movements by Jesus followers thats all good.

 

Id say the biggest problem is the conflicting histories described in the two books. The stories in the Qur'an vs the stories in the bible and torah are very different not only in setting and characters, but also in msg and theme.

 

So no, Id say you cant be both especially as both would consider you heretical.

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Hi Grenville,

 

Im sure if you look into Islam more, you will accept it more, of course the message of the gospel are the words of God, but only the Original Gospel, As a new book comes to the earth, the previous is canceled and now longer accepted. Just like with the Psalms and the Torah, because a new book was passed down and it canceled out the previous.

 

2000 years ago, we would have followed the gospel, 6000 years or so ago we would have followed the Torah (sorry if the times are a bit off :sl: , im no scholar)

Now we follow the Quran.

Insh Allah you will find secruity and happyness in Islam.

Edited by Spartan786

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Dear Greenville,

Check out these two books , It deals with topics very similar to what you are trying to but from a Muslim perspective.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetleveltruth(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/misgdbrowse.asp"]MisGod'ed[/url]

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetleveltruth(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/gdbrowse.asp"]God'ed[/url]

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Hi Guerrila Saint:

 

Please note that to stop reading something simply because you subjectively disagree with a statement is not helpful. You also miss out on so much.

 

Understanding the trinity is not automatic once you have "given your life to Christ". Please reconsider that statement. Remember there were persons in Acts who "gave their lives to Christ" and who did not even know whether there was a Holy Spirit. Did that lack of knowledge disqualify them? Of course not.

 

Hi Isambard:

 

You are correct. The events described in the Bible and the Koran differs, and sometimes those differences are substantial. What then is more important, that we have a personal relationship with the God of Abraham, or that we believe every event in detail as described in the Koran. Does not believing even one small detail of an event described in the Koran disqualify you from having a relationship with God in the same way that Abraham, who was described as a "friend of God" had?

 

Hi Spartan786:

 

I do not believe that the previous books are cancelled when a new one comes. They are all valid. Perhaps you can substantiate your assertion that previous books are cancelled.

 

Hi Al-malabari:

 

I tried to obtain the books that you suggested, but they are not yet published. Please only recommend a book that you have actually read in its entirety.

 

Regards,

Grenville

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Hi Al-malabari:

 

My apologies. I was not able to purchase the books, but I was allowed to download them for free. I will review them and provide you with my findings.

 

Has anyone read the third article?

 

Regards,

Grenville

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third article..... yes mee

 

However, Mohammed did not deny the Biblical teaching that Jesus the Messiah died to pay for the sins of all mankind.

 

this is wrong

 

here is what the Quran says about crucification

in surathul Nisa chapter 4 verse 157

 

"157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-"

 

More over, please (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&showtopic=28845&view=findpost&p=374050"]check this [/url]

 

Also, (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=36983"]check this video on this topic[/url]

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Even in the second article, you seems to say that Muhammed (PBUH) was sent only to Arabs, but the fact is He was sent as a universal messanger.

 

It is said in chapter 33 verse 40

 

"40. Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things."

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You seems to say that Bible was correct and Muhammed said it was corrupted just because to discourage Ismailites in doing the same error.

 

But if you analise the bible, you will find that there are contradictions and verses that you cannot bear to hear in front of your mother, father, aunt, child or even to your wife, if she is a good women. I am not going to detail because this is not the topic.

 

P.S: Also note that there are stories mention in the bible it self about the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH)

Have a nice day

Edited by vishah

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Asalamu'alakum and Peace,

 

 

It is my opinion, to be a 'true' Muslim (mu-min) is to be the 'truest' follower of Isa (i.e. Jesus - pbuh) for all of his 'true' Apostles were mu-min but this is a far cry from what has been historically taught by institutional Christianity in the West.

 

Wa'salam and Peace

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