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U Don't Belive In Equality Of Mankind

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Hi fellows in search of the truth,

 

I came here to discuss my view (questions) on Islam, maybe u can help:

 

1. Quran is the absolute given truth (that means no further progress is possible)! Why?

2. People are not equal in quran (men vs. woman vs. dhimmi, etc.) believers, non-believers. Does god only love black & white schemes?

3. If there "would" be a new proven "prophet" could he always be a only liar (or would Islam become obsolete?)

4. If I would find other religions more attractive, why must I die (in executing the sharia)?

5. Why is the universal word of god only accessible to arabs in their native language? Shouldn't it be accessible 2 everybody, like: love your father above everything, love your neighbor as yourself?

 

Ok lots of questions, but I'm confident someone could shed some light on these questions.

 

Thanks in advance!

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1. Quran is the absolute given truth (that means no further progress is possible)! Why?

 

Because the Qur'an is the final word of God, since we are very near the end of times. There is no further need for any other message from God, it will suffice until the day of judgement.

 

2. People are not equal in quran (men vs. woman vs. dhimmi, etc.) believers, non-believers. Does god only love black & white schemes?
Human beings are not equal in God's eyes. Those who believe in Him and worship Him are dearest to Him, as should be obvious. God does not care about race, color, gender, height, weight, intelligence, etc. The only thing that matters is how pious a person is.
3. If there "would" be a new proven "prophet" could he always be a only liar (or would Islam become obsolete?)

 

Then he would not be a prophet of God. The final prophet is Muhammad, from a long line of prophets. His prophethood and his message will last till the day of judgement.

4. If I would find other religions more attractive, why must I die (in executing the sharia)?
No one says you die for not accepting Islam. There is no compulsion for non-Muslims to convert to Islam.

 

5. Why is the universal word of god only accessible to arabs in their native language? Shouldn't it be accessible 2 everybody, like: love your father above everything, love your neighbor as yourself?

 

I don't understand this question, since it seems to be two parts.

 

Arabic is the language of the Qur'an. It is the language of the final message of God. Prayers, supplications, Hadiths, Qur'anic verses are all in Arabic (except for translatiions). It would make no sense to adopt English, because English is not the language of prophet Muhammad.

 

like: love your father above everything, love your neighbor as yourself?

 

Islam does teach loving ones' parents. In fact, right after "Fear God", the next words are usually "obey your parents"

 

Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honour.

And, out of kindness, lower to them the wing of humility, and say: "My Lord! bestow on them thy Mercy even as they cherished me in childhood." [17:23-24]

 

And We have enjoined on man (to be good) to his parents: in travail upon travail did his mother bear him, and in years twain was his weaning: (hear the command), "Show gratitude to Me and to thy parents: to Me is (thy final) Goal. [31:14]

 

Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess: For Allah loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious. [4:36]

 

Here is what prophet Muhammad said on the issue of parents:

 

Anas narrated from Prophet Muhammad about the major sins. He (Mohammed) observed: Associating anyone with God, disobedience to parents, killing a person and false utterance. [Muslim]

 

Narrated 'Abdullah: I asked the Prophet "Which deed is the dearest to God?" He replied, "To offer the prayers at their early stated fixed times." I asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, "To be good and dutiful to your parents"...[bukhari]

 

Abu Huraira reported Prophet Muhammad as saying: Let him be humbled into dust; let him be humbled into dust. It was said: God's Messenger, who is he? He said: He who sees either of his parents during their old age or he sees both of them, but he does not enter Paradise (because he has been undutiful to them). [Muslim]

 

A man came to the Prophet and asked him for permission to join Jihad. The Prophet asked him if he had a mother, and when he replied that he had, he said, "Stay with her, for Paradise is at her feet." [Ahmad]

 

A man came to the Prophet and said, ‘O Messenger of God! Who among the people is the most worthy of my good companionship? The Prophet said: Your mother. The man said, ‘Then who?' The Prophet said: Your mother. The man further asked, ‘Then who?' The Prophet said: Your mother. The man asked again, ‘Then who?' The Prophet said: Your father. [bukhari, Muslim]

 

 

Here is what Islam says on neighbors:

Ibn `Umar and `Aishah (May Allah be pleased with them) reported: Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "Jibril (Angel Gabriel) kept recommending treating neighbours with kindness until I thought he would assign a share of inheritance". [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

 

Abu Dharr (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Messenger of Allah (PBUH) commanded me thus, "O Abu Dharr! Whenever you prepare a broth, put plenty of water in it, and and give some of it to your neighbours". [Muslim]

 

Narrated by Abi Shuraih Al-Khuza'i (May Allah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (pbuh) said: Whoever believes in Allah and the Day of Judgement, let him do good to his neighbor...[Muslim]

 

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Prophet (PBUH) said, "By Allah, he is not a believer! By Allah, he is not a believer! By Allah, he is not a believer.'' It was asked, "Who is that, O Messenger of Allah?'' He said, "One whose neighbour does not feel safe from his evil".

[Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

 

Narrated by Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) saying that the Prophet (pbuh) said: He will not enter paradise, the one whose neighbor is not safe of him. [Muslim]

 

Aishah (May Allah be pleased with her) reported: I said, "O Messenger of Allah (PBUH), I have two neighbours, to which of them should I send a present?'' He (PBUH) replied, "To the one whose door is nearer to you". [Al-Bukhari]

 

Abdullah bin `Umar (May Allah be pleased with them) reported: Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "The best of companions with Allah is the one who is best to his companions, and the best of neighbours to Allah is the one who is the best of them to his neighbour". [At-Tirmidhi].

 

Salam.

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Because the Qur'an is the final word of God, since we are very near the end of times. There is no further need for any other message from God, it will suffice until the day of judgement.

 

:sl:

 

then you think war is inevitable. Even you. :sl:

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:sl:

 

then you think war is inevitable. Even you. :sl:

 

Peace gnuneo,

 

War, or better, Jihad (i.e. struggle) is inevitable and necessary for the perfecting and purifying of mankind.

 

Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, We believe, and will not be tried? - Al-Ankabut 6 (Al-Quran 29:6)

 

Peace.

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:sl:

 

then you think war is inevitable. Even you. :sl:

 

Aww. :j:

 

Well, which war did you mean?

 

Salam.

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peace,

 

in JCI, "end times" nearly always equates with massive warfare and the largest part of mankind dieing - it is Millenarianist in nature. I have seen the same association by some posters on IF, and have also heard it from christians on other forums.

 

although i agree with the possibility of prophesies (i would prefer not to, but i am not given that choice because of personal experience), i also think that it is up to *us* as actors to decide whether (and when) certain prophesies come true. To beleive the "end times" are coming, especially in JCI theology, is essentially to state that mankind will destroy itself. For all our faults, this i do not wish to see.

 

i beleive this *is* paradise, our senses tell our consciousness beautiful things, if we would let them. It is up to us to decide if we want to live in Hell or Heaven right here, and it is entirely our own fault that so many find this world to be Hell.

 

 

peace, and Love.

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since we are very near the end of times.

:sl: :sl: what is this? what do you mean? how do you know it?

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Thanks Layna for answering my questions so quickly!

Question No 4 was asked from the standpoint of a muslim (sharia says death by sword). But ok, not really important.

I now understand, that Islam is believing in quran as the only truth. That surely must lead to war with the rest of mankind, who will obviously not accept your truth. In fact I know since many years about the upcoming war (many people saw this coming i.e. Nostradamus).

In a few years we will finally, see who was wrong and who was right!

That's how mankind evolves ...

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peace,

in JCI, "end times" nearly always equates with massive warfare and the largest part of mankind dieing - it is Millenarianist in nature. I have seen the same association by some posters on IF, and have also heard it from christians on other forums.

 

Well, Islam does prophesize future wars, but most, if not all of them, will be started by non-Muslims, so it won't be a self-fulfiling prophecy.

 

Here's a website you can look at for the major signs before the day of judgement. (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetinter-Islam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/faith/Majorsigns.html"]Link[/url]

 

ohmy.gif huh.gif what is this? what do you mean? how do you know it?

 

We are the last of mankind, the final group of people before the day of judgement. Our period began 1400 years ago when prophet Muhammad was sent to us. It could last another fifty years, another 100, another 1000. It might seem like a long time, but it will go by incredibly quickly.

 

Compare a thousand years with the day of judgement, which is 50,000 years long. Whatever is left of this world seems like an afternoon. Israfil, the angel who will blow the horn on the day of judgement, has already put the trumpet to his mouth and is waiting to blow it at the command of God because he is aware of how close the hour is.

 

[surah Al-Nazi'ah]

42. They ask thee about the Hour,-'When will be its appointed time?

43. Wherein art thou (concerned) with the declaration thereof?

44. With thy Lord in the Limit fixed therefor.

45. Thou art but a Warner for such as fear it.

46. The Day they see it, (It will be) as if they had tarried but a single evening, or (at most till) the following morn!

 

The people will think that their time on Earth had been too short.

 

The prophet, while pointing with his index and middle fingers, said: “The time of my advent and the Hour are like these two fingers.†[bukhari]

 

For as long as mankind has existed, we are very close to the Hour.

 

I now understand, that Islam is believing in quran as the only truth. That surely must lead to war with the rest of mankind, who will obviously not accept your truth.

 

No, the rest of humanity will be at war with Muslims for not accepting THEIR ways. As I've said, most future wars will be wars on Islam, not by it.

 

Salam.

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I now understand, that Islam is believing in quran as the only truth. That surely must lead to war with the rest of mankind, who will obviously not accept your truth.

 

 

How many wars have been fought by the Muslims on this account in the recent past????

 

Everywhere the poor Muslims are only trying to ensure their survival by putting the resistance in whatever negligible capacity, they can. We do believe in Holy Quran as the ultimate truth, but it doesn't command us to enter into un-necessary war with non-believers, till the Muslims are attacked and compelled to defend themselves. Isn't self-defence the legitimate right of everyone???

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:sl: :sl: what is this? what do you mean? how do you know it?

 

Because all the minor signs that lead to the Hour have passed. The major signs will follow soon. How do we know about these minor signs? Through the Prophet(pbuh).

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Because all the minor signs that lead to the Hour have passed. The major signs will follow soon. How do we know about these minor signs? Through the Prophet(pbuh).

 

You do know your minor signs have existed since the dawn of human civilization some 10 thousand yrs or so right? :sl:

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You do know your minor signs have existed since the dawn of human civilization some 10 thousand yrs or so right? :sl:

 

Why don't you list them, so that we can take the time to analyze them?

 

Salam.

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You do know your minor signs have existed since the dawn of human civilization some 10 thousand yrs or so right? :sl:

 

LOL. You do know that you are saying this about a subject of which you have absolutely no knowledge, right? You haven't even heard/read about the prophecies and you're already mocking. Typical Unbeliever's behavior, it's like directly taken from the Unbeliever's Handbook.

 

Let's take one example, one was a prophecy about the Muslims conquering Byzantium. This prophecy was made at a time when the Muslims were on the edge of getting wiped out. The Prophet(pbuh) was telling the people of future events even at a time when doom seemed inevitable to them - what a true test of Iman(faith/trust). Another one was about the conquest of the Sacred city, Jerusalem. Plus, there is the prophecy of what kind of rule Muslims would go through, that has happened/is happening.

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Why don't you list them, so that we can take the time to analyze them?

 

Salam.

 

1) Minor signs

Minor signs are events of normal nature prophesised by our Prophet Muhammed to take place before Qiyamah like the consumption of alcohol, lifting of knowledge and prevalence of ignorance and immorality and signs of this nature. The majority of the minor signs have appeared while some are occurring and some will appear with major signs.

 

I was referring specifically to those which are nothing new

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LOL. You do know that you are saying this about a subject of which you have absolutely no knowledge, right? You haven't even heard/read about the prophecies and you're already mocking. Typical Unbeliever's behavior, it's like directly taken from the Unbeliever's Handbook.

 

Let's take one example, one was a prophecy about the Muslims conquering Byzantium. This prophecy was made at a time when the Muslims were on the edge of getting wiped out. The Prophet(pbuh) was telling the people of future events even at a time when doom seemed inevitable to them - what a true test of Iman(faith/trust). Another one was about the conquest of the Sacred city, Jerusalem. Plus, there is the prophecy of what kind of rule Muslims would go through, that has happened/is happening.

 

Typical 'believer' response, to generalize and over simplify.

 

Hazart Abu Musa Al Ashari narrates that The Holy Prophet said: "Qiyamah will come....

* When it will be regarded as a shame to act upon Quranic injunctions.

* When untrustworthy people will be regarded as trustworthy and the trustworthy will be regarded as untrustworthy.

* When the liars will be regarded as truthful and the truthful will be regarded as liars.

* When women with children become displeased (on account of them bearing off-spring) and barren women remain happy (on account of having no responsibility of off-spring).

* When decisions will be given on mere conjecture (wild guesses).

* When legislation in matters pertaining to my right (religion) is handed over to the worst elements in my Ummah, and if people accept them and are satisfied with their findings, then such persons will not smell the fragrance of Jannah.

* When the off-spring become a cause of grief and anger (for their parents).

* When Islam will become a stranger (unwanted religion).

* When Malice and Hate will become common among people.

* When Islamic Knowledge (Ilm) is lifted.

* When people will boast upon their palatial mansions.

* When oppression, jealousy and greed become the order of the day.

* When lies prevail over the truth.

* When people dispute over petty issues.

* When people blatantly follow their passions and whims.

* When immorality overtakes shamelessness and is perpetrated publicly.

(Al Hadith)

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetinter-Islam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/faith/Signs-Of-Qiyaamah.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetinter-Islam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/faith/Signs-Of-Qiyaamah.htm[/url]

 

Hmm again seems nothing new to me. It basically goes, "When ppl believe what I believe is stupid and regardless if they have a pt, is when the world will end o0o0o0oo". Honestly, its the same arguement used by just about every other religion that has had opposition.

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Typical 'believer' response, to generalize and over simplify.

 

Not nearly as simplified as that of the Unbeliever.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetanswering-christianity(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/prophecies_muh.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetanswering-christianity(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/prophecies_muh.htm[/url]

 

When I speak of major sings, I mean the coming of the Mehdi(ra), the False Messiah who will be noticed by the whole world, leading to the descent of Jesus(pbuh) etc.

Edited by Younes Ibn Abd' al-Aziz

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Ok, it seems to be common knowledge to you, that the times are a changing and some signs already passed.

I don't believe in the end of mankind soon, but the great tribulation might come like a thief in the night.

To me, the main reason this has to happen is, the personal greed that ate the capitalists/egoists hearts and makes them like wolfs to this planet. Capitalism produces too much inequality to last forever.

Rationalism and the nature sciences negate what they can't find or prove, so unfortunately many people in the western world have lost their faith in god.

 

But in your faith people are also not equal, you say.

 

Your faith makes me and all others to a 2nd class believer,

[9.29]Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

 

who should pay taxes to you, brilliant.

 

[2.256]There is no compulsion in religion

 

I really don't see why god needs a class society in his believers.

Sorry, this is definitely not my cup of tea. I believe all people are equal before god.

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Rationalism and the nature sciences negate what they can't find or prove, so unfortunately many people in the western world have lost their faith in god.

 

So far science has not negated anything Muslims believe in.

 

But in your faith people are also not equal, you say.

 

Your faith makes me and all others to a 2nd class believer,

who should pay taxes to you, brilliant.

 

People don't have the same rights under the Law.

 

 

I really don't see why god needs a class society in his believers.

Sorry, this is definitely not my cup of tea. I believe all people are equal before god.

 

People are equal before God on the Day of Judgement, He will judge them fairly. However, people don't have the same rights and obligations under His Law, just like women and men don't have the same rights and obligations under pretty much every law on earth.

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Not nearly as simplified as that of the Unbeliever.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetanswering-christianity(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/prophecies_muh.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetanswering-christianity(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/prophecies_muh.htm[/url]

 

When I speak of major sings, I mean the coming of the Mehdi(ra), the False Messiah who will be noticed by the whole world, leading to the descent of Jesus(pbuh) etc.

 

Ty for the article. Ill have to take a closer look when I have the time

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1) Minor signs

Minor signs are events of normal nature prophesised by our Prophet Muhammed to take place before Qiyamah like the consumption of alcohol, lifting of knowledge and prevalence of ignorance and immorality and signs of this nature. The majority of the minor signs have appeared while some are occurring and some will appear with major signs.

 

I was referring specifically to those which are nothing new

 

You're out of your element here.

 

1) Alcohol consumption has increased worldwide. It was not something as widespead before prophet Muhammad as it became after him.

2) Knowledge of Islam has decreased. Look at the example centuries ago, when Islamic empires were in their elements. Compare that with what is happening to today's Muslim countries. Self-explanatory.

3) Immorality? Please. One only needs to turn on the television and wait 5 minutes before you come across commercials or shows that are advertising and promoting adultery. 200 years ago, people in the west were ALOT more conservative and ALOT more morally-aware of their actions. This has completely changed with time. And this is just one example.

 

To say that these signs have forever existed is false, because they are evident primarily in our time period.

 

Salam.

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You're out of your element here.

 

1) Alcohol consumption has increased worldwide. It was not something as widespead before prophet Muhammad as it became after him.

2) Knowledge of Islam has decreased. Look at the example centuries ago, when Islamic empires were in their elements. Compare that with what is happening to today's Muslim countries. Self-explanatory.

3) Immorality? Please. One only needs to turn on the television and wait 5 minutes before you come across commercials or shows that are advertising and promoting adultery. 200 years ago, people in the west were ALOT more conservative and ALOT more morally-aware of their actions. This has completely changed with time. And this is just one example.

 

To say that these signs have forever existed is false, because they are evident primarily in our time period.

 

Salam.

 

1. If you compare pop. increase and contrast it to increase in alcohol consumption youll see it is actually decreasing on a per person ratio.

2. Id say its because of a loss of centralization. It happens to every religion even if their central figure isnt destroyed. (Look at christians and the Pope). Needless to say however, the loss of centrality is very much a muslim fault.

3. This is subjective. A little nudity offends you eh? What about wide spread massacers, riots, rebellions, world wars, economic crisis, acts of cannibalism, widespread torture etc.

 

To paraphrase Machievelli 'Only the fool believes the events before progress was achieved are desired. He only speaks out of ignorance and inability to learn from history'

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Ok, it seems to be common knowledge to you, that the times are a changing and some signs already passed.

I don't believe in the end of mankind soon, but the great tribulation might come like a thief in the night.

To me, the main reason this has to happen is, the personal greed that ate the capitalists/egoists hearts and makes them like wolfs to this planet. Capitalism produces too much inequality to last forever.

Rationalism and the nature sciences negate what they can't find or prove, so unfortunately many people in the western world have lost their faith in god.

 

But in your faith people are also not equal, you say.

 

Your faith makes me and all others to a 2nd class believer,

who should pay taxes to you, brilliant.

I really don't see why god needs a class society in his believers.

Sorry, this is definitely not my cup of tea. I believe all people are equal before god.

 

1. Your right, capitolism wont last forever. it has been parasitised and the parasite is much greater and more powerful than nations at this pt.

2. God is Dead. I think that sums it up. Loss of faith in God is a result of ppl discovering their better off fending for themselves then hoping for prayer curing variosu ailments or that natural disasters were very much random as opposed to God being mad at you for masturbating.

3. Only religion Ino that preaches total equality is Christianity and to some the 'christian spirit' is the worst thing to befall mankind. I am inclined to agree.

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...

People are equal before God on the Day of Judgement, He will judge them fairly. However, people don't have the same rights and obligations under His Law, just like women and men don't have the same rights and obligations under pretty much every law on earth.

Ok, everything I will ever ask will be answered through quran. I accept your point of view, but it is discriminating to non-muslims. Thanks for helping & giving me a deeper sight into Islam.

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1. If you compare pop. increase and contrast it to increase in alcohol consumption youll see it is actually decreasing on a per person ratio.

 

You do realize that the time frame goes from 2000 years ago to the present time? Are you honestly arguing that alcohol consumption has decreased since then?

 

2. Id say its because of a loss of centralization. It happens to every religion even if their central figure isnt destroyed. (Look at christians and the Pope). Needless to say however, the loss of centrality is very much a muslim fault.
Then you obviously don't understand Islam. If you did, you would realize that most conflicts arise from lack of knowledge and understanding of Islamic creed.

 

3. This is subjective. A little nudity offends you eh? What about wide spread massacers, riots, rebellions, world wars, economic crisis, acts of cannibalism, widespread torture etc.

 

You throw around the word "offend" a lot. Once again, I'm not offended, but simply replying to you.

 

Nudity is immoral in Islam. So are gossiping, gambling, drinking and fornication. These things are prevelant and popular in the west, and are considered part of the norm.

 

And you seem to have gone completely off-track. We are talking about the increase in immorality as a minor sign, not "How many bad things are there in the world?".

 

To paraphrase Machievelli 'Only the fool believes the events before progress was achieved are desired. He only speaks out of ignorance and inability to learn from history'

 

Hah! That quote might have made sense if it was applicable in this scenario.

 

Salam.

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