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iftikharalam

4000 American Deaths In Iraq And Afghanistan

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Stroy of One single day.. 30th June

 

Civilians killed in Iraq...

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6256394.stm"]bbc world[/url]

 

But Iraqi hospital and police officials put the death toll at eight and said civilians were killed in their homes.

 

One resident told reporters that US helicopters had launched missiles at targets in the densely populated district, home to more than two million people.

 

Another described how "a big American convoy with tanks came and began to open fire on houses - bombarding them".

 

"What did we do? We didn't even retaliate - there was no resistance," Basheer Ahmed added.

 

I hope that American supporters like gill on this forum will be jumping in their homes for this great success of their military..

 

Civilians killed in Afghanistan... (same day)

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6256458.stm"]bbc world[/url]

 

The US-led military coalition in Afghanistan says a number of civilians appear to have died in air strikes in the southern province of Helmand.

 

Local officials say they believe tens of civilians died but there has been no independent confirmation of this.

 

President Hamid Karzai recently accused foreign troops of acting "recklessly".

 

American supporters.. some more happiness for you.. Bush voters.. this is a time to celebrate.. go take your girl friend to a night club and celebrate military might of your country and their success.

 

The mayor of the nearby town of Gereshk told the BBC there were reports of tens of civilian deaths.

 

Local people who telephoned the BBC said that as many as 50 to 80 civilians had been killed.

 

They said "foreign forces" had bombed their area for two to three hours late on Friday.

 

A week ago, after the death of some 25 civilians in the same district, President Karzai accused foreign forces of acting recklessly and ordered them to co-ordinate better with his government.

 

Cheers.. almost 100 civilains deaths in free lands under US control on one single day.. Ahhhh, satisfied Americans? Or a score should be more high for your satisfaction?

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PropellerAds

Ah, good to see no venom dripping around here, anyway...

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Joker, meet Ifti.

 

Ifti likes to post about American deaths.

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I hope the patriots of Iraq, Afghanistan etc will kill more American soldiers, marines, seals, green beret , the British SAS etc in Iraq, Afghanistan etc in order to save innocent and defenseless Iraqi and Afghan people and liberate Iraq, Afghanistan etc from the brutal US imperialism.

 

Vietnam has taught us that the barbaric and ruthless US regime and the brutal and sadistic US Armed Forces and their allies can be beaten through guerrilla war. After more than 56 000 US soldiers etc were killed by the patriots of Vietnam, the US forces fled across the Pacific Ocean to USA !!! Shame on the US forces !!!

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I did read the context Ifti.

 

Joker made a comment about the venom in your posts. I was simply explaining the extent of your feelings. You have started multiple posts in which you can barely contain your glee at the death of American soldiers, then make comments like the one in this post in which you (I hope sarcastically) say that non-Muslim posters on this forum are taking similar joy in civilian deaths in Afghanistan.

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No one thinks this is good, so stop hating.

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Stop Hating US soldiers sky after this? I am made of flesh and blood, I feel for my people who are daily dying in these air strikes.. wait, I should love American soldiers for all this? Will it make you feel good? Why don't you hate your own soldiers for all this.. After reading all this, and reading about mounting civilian deaths in occupied lands, if still someone loves American soldeir than he is blood sucking insect.

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Media's Distortions to Justify the Occupation of Iraq

by Ghali Hassan

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetbreakthesilence.ca/politics/June%2006/mediaDistort.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetbreakthesilence.ca/politics/Jun...ediaDistort.htm[/url]

 

The flurry of news, hypotheses, and media's distortions about the nature of U.S. Occupation and the Iraqi people resistance to the Occupation continues unabated. How much of this is managed propaganda to justify the Occupation and distort the image of the Resistance to U.S. murderous and unprovoked war?

 

According to both the Western mainstream media and the so-called “alternative” media, the U.S. is “fighting terrorism”, “building democracy”, and “preventing civil war” in Iraq. The distortion of facts and lack of oppositional media leave people in the West, Americans in particular, ill informed. The Western media diligently divert public attention from the illegal Occupation of Iraq and the responsibility of the U.S. and its allies for the horrendous crimes committed against the people of Iraq. Western journalists and pundits are the main agents of this distorted propaganda campaign.

 

The aims are to justify the ongoing violent Occupation of Iraq and to portray the Iraqi Resistance as “violent insurgency” composed of “religious fanatics” and “foreign fighters” isolated from the rest of the population “with nothing to lose” is the Occupation's way of discrediting the Iraqi people legitimate right to resist U.S. Occupation..

 

The pretexts for the war and the Occupation were fabricated lies. There were no WMD, Iraq had no link to “terrorism” or 9/11 attacks (as admitted by President G.W. Bush), and Iraq was a defenceless nation posed no threat to other nations. Indeed, all the pretexts to justify the invasion and Occupation proved to be fabricated lies. The motives for U.S. invasion and Occupation of Iraq are to destroy Iraq; control Iraq's oil resources; and protect israel's Zionist policy. Hence, the U.S. and its “allies” are in the process, through media distortions, of not only legitimising the Occupation, but also of creating new pretexts for the maintenance of continuing U.S. military presence. The most common pretext in the media reports is that U.S. forces are invited to stay in Iraq to prevent “civil war” and “maintains stability”. The opposite is true. There is no “stability” without authority; the Occupation is the cause of the violence.

 

The U.S.-imposed puppet government is the source of instability. It is a collection of expatriates who lobbied for the invasion and occupation of Iraq. It is composed of sectarian groups and has no relation to the so-called “national unity government” propagated in the West as a result of “democratic elections”. The January 2005 fraudulent elections were part of the West campaign of public manipulation. Iraqi did not vote for Nouri Al-Maliky. No one heard of Al-Maliky before the U.S. imposed him on the people of Iraq. This façade of expatriates has no credibility among the vast majority of the Iraqi people. These expatriates are the same criminals reshuffled from time to time to provide Bush and Blair with a new “turning point”. They are serving the interests of the U.S. and at the same time serving their own interests facilitating the looting of Iraq's wealth. There is no sovereign Iraqi government to be recognised; Iraq is under violent military Occupation.

 

After three years of violent Occupation, the situation in Iraq has descended from bad to worse. Iraqis lives have deteriorated significantly as a result of a deliberate destruction of the country's essential infrastructure and well-planned military and economic Occupation. Iraqis living conditions have deteriorated to the lowest level in Iraq's history. More than 10 per cent of Iraqi children are suffering from acute malnutrition than was the case before the invasion of March 2003; more than two-thirds of Iraqis still do not have clean water; and electricity supply is far bellow the level before the invasion. A United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) released on 02 May 2006 reveals that one in three Iraqi children are severely malnourished and underweight. The report shows that 25 per cent of Iraqi children between the ages of six months and five years suffer from either acute or chronic malnutrition. The new culture of corruption introduced by the U.S. and its allies has left Iraqis wondering without hope.

 

Furthermore, security has disappeared and replaced by Occupation-perpetuated violence. With no effective authority in place security is non-existent today than before the invasion. Less than 1 per cent of Iraqis believe that the occupying forces have improved security. Before the invasion the Baghdad morgue processed fewer than 100 corpses a month. In the first three months of this year, it processed 3427 corpses. Despite the authoritarian nature of the previous regime, Iraq was relatively safe and functioned state. None of these mass murders of innocent civilians were committed under the previous regime.

 

The disbanding of the Iraqi Army and Police and the creation, arming and financing of “ethnic militias” and death squads by U.S. forces was designed to create ethnic divisions and provoke sectarian violence among Iraqis. The violence will then used to justify the ongoing Occupation. These U.S. sponsored militia groups are: The Kurdish militias (or Peshmerga ) whose warlords supported the U.S. invasion and Occupation of Iraq. The Iranian-trained Badr Brigades (the armed wing of the Supreme Council of the Islamic Revolution in Iraq [sCIRI] led by Abdul Aziz al-Hakeem and the Da'wa party by Ibrahim Al-Jaafari); The INC militia led by Ahmed Chalabi; and the INA militia led by Iyad Allawi. All these militia groups are involved in daily terror against Iraqi civilians. The latter three groups piggybacked into Iraq on the back of U.S. tanks, without valid Iraqi citizenship papers. They were trained in acts of terrorism, financed and armed by U.S., Britain and Iran.

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Stop Hating US soldiers sky after this? I am made of flesh and blood, I feel for my people who are daily dying in these air strikes.. wait, I should love American soldiers for all this? Will it make you feel good? Why don't you hate your own soldiers for all this.. After reading all this, and reading about mounting civilian deaths in occupied lands, if still someone loves American soldeir than he is blood sucking insect.

 

 

No one thinks it's good. No one in the world.

 

Don't pretend like they do. U.S. soldiers are just people your and my age who signed up some papers for what they felt was a good cuase. Now everything is messed up.

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Peace,

 

Anybody with the remotest feeling of humanity (i.e. all Muslims and non-Muslims) hate when civilians die because of airstrikes. There is a difference between saying that and saying that we hate the soldiers who do it. They have a job to do and they do not as a matter of policy try to kill civilians, on the contrary they try to avoid it. By all means slag off the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, say that no matter what the cause the destruction cannot be justified, I'd be with you all the way. Making out though that Westerners like seeing civilians killed is very poor argument solely because it is not true. Coalition forces do not want to kill civilians, they want to kill as few civilians as possible while doing the job they feel they should be doing. I'd be on your side if you argued that the tactics the militaries use - particularly the US forces, are far out of proportion than the level of violence that is necesarry, indeed what they're doing in many instances is wholly counter-productive when fighting a counter-insurgency.

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PEACE?

 

Anybody with the remotest feeling of humanity (i.e. all Muslims and non-Muslims) hate when civilians died because of airstrikes. There is a difference between saying that and saying that we hate the NAZI soldiers who did it. They had a job to do and they did not as a matter of policy try to kill civilians, on the contrary they try to avoid it. By all means slag off the war in Europe, say that no matter what the cause the destruction could not be justified, I'd be with you all the way. Making out though that Westerners liked seeing civilians killed is GOOD argument solely because it was true during the 1st and 2nd World wars. NAZI Coalition forces did not want to kill civilians, they wanted to kill as few civilians as possible while doing the job they felt they should be doing. I'd be on your side if you argued that the tactics the militaries use - particularly the NAZI forces, were far out of proportion than the level of violence that was necesarry, indeed what they were doing in many instances was wholly counter-productive when fighting a counter-insurgency.

Edited by wiseguy

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Peace ######,

 

I'm impressed! I disagree with what you say but the style of argument you used there was far better than I gave you credit for. Good show. :sl:

 

I disagree for several reasons. The 1st and 2nd World Wars make a poor comparison with Iraq and Afghanistan. For one thing it is now appreciated in history classes and by people in general that bombing cities and killing civilians does not win wars. Bombing Dresden, Frankfurt, Kiel and Berlin did not make the Germans capitulate nor did it hamper German production nearly as much as was expected taking into consideration the vast resources put into the attacks. As I saw recently in an article posted on this site (it may have been yourself that posted it), the British General in command in Afghanistan realises that every dead civilian killed by the coalition means 5 more people fighting for the Taliban. I live in the West, I speak to people about current affairs, I know inside out the country which British soldiers come from and I know implicitly that none of them have the aim of killing Afghan civilians. There's no need to take my word for it though, don't hesitate to ask any British Muslim on this forum whether they believe that British Troops intentionally target civilians and I feel confident that they're as aware as anybody here that our troops are not trained to do that and do make efforts to avoid civilian casualties.

 

You draw a comparison with the Nazi's which in debtaing terms is a good move. By comparing Coalition troops with Nazi troops you could show up a double standard if one exists. In this case however a double standard on my part does not exist. The Nazi's lined Russian villagers up in town squares and shot them and they fought a war of Annhililation on the Eastern Front. Even on the Western Front they rounded up vast swathes of people and sent them to the gas chambers in Germany, when the French Resistance movement blew up a train they would execute all the men in a village. To compare that with coalition troops in Iraq or Afghanisan is not to excuse the actions of the former, however it is a gross exaggeration of the true circumstances as coalition troops simply do not line people up and shoot them.

 

I'm as anti-war as anybody in the UK, possibly more so and I've learnt much on this forum which leads me to believe that the anti-war stance is the correct one. However if you're going to argue a point you have to be realistic. Painting your enemy as evil incarnate is not the way to win support, you have to be realistic or you inevitably discredit your position.

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Don't you Eoin know that I write post 14 to reflect your post 13? :sl:

 

Your anti-war stance is commendable !! :sl:

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To compare that with coalition troops in Iraq or Afghanisan is not to excuse the actions of the former, however it is a gross exaggeration of the true circumstances as coalition troops simply do not line people up and shoot them.

 

Yeah Coalition troops (US, UK etc) simply do not line people up and shoot them, they simply massacre innocent and defenseless Iraqi and Afghan civilians. For eample, the US troops had terrorized, raped and massacred innocent Iraqi babies, children, women etc in the infamous the Haditha Massacre etc!!! By using WMDs etc, the Coalition forces simply attack and destroy civilian targets such as markets, schools, kindergartens, Masjids, hospitals, clinics, villages, towns etc and they dismiss the deaths of innocent and defenseless Iraqi and Afghan people as a collateral damage!!! And they use Al Qaeda as their scapegoat and a pretext to destroy civilian targets and terrorize and massacre innocent and defenseless Iraqi and Afghan people!

 

The illegal American invasion of Afghanistan

 

The US war on Afghanistan was also planned well in advance (at least a year or more) of the 9/11 attack that provided the claimed justification for it. It was part of the US strategic plan to control the vast oil and gas resources of Central Asia that former National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski under President Carter explained the importance of in his 1997 book The Grand Chessboard. In it he referred to Eurasia as the "center of world power extending from Germany and Poland in the East through Russia and China to the Pacific and including the Middle East and Indian subcontinent." By dominating this region including Afghanistan with its strategic location, the US would assure it had access to and controlled the vast energy resources there.

 

It all began with the US-led attack on Afghanistan that from the start took a great toll in injuries and deaths, mostly affecting innocent civilians. Marc Herold of the University of New Hampshire estimated between 3,100 - 3,600 deaths resulted from the 5 week conflict or as many as over 600 more than those killed on 9/11 in the US which was the pretext used to go to war. Herold continues estimating deaths and injuries to Afghans and occupying forces since and believes as of July, 2004 about 12,000 Afghan troops and civilians have been killed in the conflict and about 32,000 seriously injured. As things have intensified since, those numbers increase daily and are now considerably higher but it's not known to what level. And what's not included in any of the estimates is the many unknown number of thousands who've died since October, 2001 from the crushing poverty causing starvation and disease.

 

The illegal American invasion of Afghanistan displaced as many as about six million or more people fleeing to neighboring countries or becoming internally displaced persons and being categorized as IDPs. About half to two-thirds of those refugees have now returned home but most are unable to find much relief from where they'd been. Refugees International interviewed returnees to Kabul in 2002, where conditions are much more stable than elsewhere, and learned that while people were happy to be back they found conditions there to be terrible - no shelter, no schools, no work, no medical care, no security, and for many little or no food.

 

Therefore the Coalition forces and Nazi forces share so many similarities. They attack, invade and occupy sovereign countries destroy civilian targets and terrorize, rape, torture and massacre innocent and defenseless people !

Edited by wiseguy

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If you think the US are in Afghanistan for the reason in your last post, why would deliberately killing civilians further this aim?

 

The US forces and their allies terrorize, rape, torture and massacre innocent and defenseless Afghan people because Afghan patriots (Taliban) are resisting the illegal American invasion of Afghanistan and the US forces and their allies attack and destroy civilian targets to demoralize the Afghan patriots. However, the more the US forces and its allies terrorize Afghan people and destroy civilian targets, the more Afghan people join Taliban to fight the US forces and its allies and the number of Nato soldiers getting killed in Afghanistan is increasing steadily. And a bitter fact for the US supporters, the US regime is losing the war in Afghanistan. Someday the Nato forces will flee from Afghanistan across the Hindi Ocean to Europe and USA!!!

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Do you hate your soldeirs for killing civilians in airstrikes or not?

 

I hate anyone who thinks killing innocent people is worth killing those that are guilty.

 

That includes many American soldiers, that includes many Americans.

 

How we fight terrorists isn't right. We don't need Afgans slaughtered in the streets...that is the greatest evil.

 

I believe the insurgents are misguided--the same way I believe U.S. men, women, and children are misguided.

 

But for BOTH sides I think what they are doing is wrong. In method, and for what purpose.

 

We both know that the world is messed up.

 

We shouldn't make it worse.

 

Edited by Sky

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I hate anyone who thinks killing innocent people is worth killing those that are guilty. That includes many American soldiers, that includes many Americans.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At Last. Thank You; I believe the same.

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<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At Last. Thank You; I believe the same.

 

 

Don't forget the other side.

 

I'm not an America hater...

 

The otherside is as guilty as the west. This isn't a one way street.

 

We think it's a fight and we (Americans) were attacked, when things are much more complicated than that.

 

Let me admit something: after 9/11 my gut feeling was to go in and kill the terrorists without mercy. "Kill them, whatever it takes!"

 

But I never realized that "whatever it takes" includes children, women, hundreds of innocent people. I never saw the other side. I was never allowed to.

 

I didn't know about israel.

I didn't know about funding opressive governments.

I didn't know about mass causlties.

 

And becuase I didn't know these things, I couldn't see America from a Muslim/Middle Eastern perspective.

 

It took me months to learn all the things I never knew--things I was never even given a chance to learn!

 

Do you think it's on the news here? Do you think my friends and family ever said "maybe there is a reason behind terrorism?"

 

No! Of course not. They don't see what I've seen, they don't know what I know, and they are innocent in thier ingnorance.

 

Do you think the 3,000 people killed in 9/11 had spent 14 monts investigating the muslim perspective? Nope.

 

BUT... then agian--do you think that terrorists have spent over a year trying to see what I see? Trying to learn what I believe?

 

I hate the part of millions of Americans that excuse killing innocent people... and I hate the terrorists for the same reason.

 

I had an article published in which I wrote that even though "terrorists" are trying to kill us, they are still people. They can still put down thier guns. JUST AS WE CAN!

 

If an American says this type of thing, automatically he is looked down upon.

If a muslim says this type of thing, do his brothers look down upon him?

 

Come together is what I say!

 

If I had 1 million dollars I'd put a banner in Times Square saying "Why?" with a picture of a hurt american and a hurt middle eastern girl. On the bottom of the poster would be a link to a page that explained the situation, than a message board (like this one) where everyone across the world and discuss...

 

Peace.

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