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What Hapenin In Pakistan

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what hapenin in pak ? fightin in Masjid ? ??? :sl:

 

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moved from general chat to PF by mehnaz

Edited by ~mehnaz~

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Asalaamu aleykum,

 

la Howla wa la Quwwata illabillah , this is really a(nother) black day for Pakistan , may Allah Subhana wa Ta'ala guide the Pakistan government to the right Path

 

:sl:

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Assalamu alaikum, Ameen, Ya Rabbul A'alameen.

 

umAhmad.

Edited by umAhmad

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"The maulana came out of the Masjid with a group of girls wearing a burqa and carrying a handbag. The girls protested when he was stopped. But officers were suspicious and after a search, Maulana Abdul Aziz was identified and arrested,"

 

Whatever floats yer boat I suppose.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6270626.stm"]Transvestite does runner[/url]

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The maulana came out of the Masjid with a group of girls wearing a burqa and carrying a handbag. The girls protested when he was stopped. But officers were suspicious and after a search, Maulana Abdul Aziz was identified and arrested,"

 

Thats funny ! ppl who ask others to gv life , they themselves are ones first who try to escape saving their own lives :sl:

 

here the captain of ship is first to dive out leaving the ship to sink :sl:

 

these ppl are spoiling image of Islam

Edited by PeaceAll

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Whatever floats yer boat I suppose.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6270626.stm"]Transvestite does runner[/url]

Thats funny ! ppl who ask others to gv life , they themselves are ones first who try to escape saving their own lives mad.gif

 

here the captain of ship is first to dive out leaving the ship to sink blink.gif

 

these ppl are spoiling image of Islam

 

Do you know what is reality? His other brother Abdulrasheed ghazi is still in Masjid and leading students. Prophet Muhammad SAW escaped from Makkah by leaving Hazrat Ali RA at his place. May be Female students pressurized him to leave like this, as it is reported that they started protesting when he was stopped. He was out to talk to one of the politician to find a peaceful way out. I don't know what really happened but please hold your tongue when you are talking about Ullama. I personally believe that now Students and Maulana Abdulrashid Ghazi should surrender, they did their best for Islam within their capabilities, and we are their witness in front of Allah swt. Insha Allah, they will be rewarded for their struggle, but now it is only death waiting for them inside that compound, so I hope they will surrendr. Maulana Ghazi is a very smart man, and I don't want him to die. They give youth of Pakistan a new ideology to carry, and insha Allah chain reaction of this will be soon seen in whole Pakistan.

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Correct me if I am wrong, Ifti, but from what information I have been able to gather the ideology of this group is intolerance and persecution of those who do not believe the way they do.

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Correct me if I am wrong, Ifti, but from what information I have been able to gather the ideology of this group is intolerance and persecution of those who do not believe the way they do.

 

Isnt that part of western Ideology as well ?

 

Mass mudering 100,000s in the name of Implementing so called democracy ? on people who dont want them their to start with ?

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Your information is wrong.. They never killed or hurt anyone before this operation. They kidnapped owner of brothels two times, when authorities failed to take action and that too on the request of the local people. And they free them without hurting them within days. They never forced someonw to wear Viel, or beard. They requests movies shops to not to sell adult movies, that is all. This is crime of these young women and men. They paid price in form of 20 lives just because they think that they can bring a betterment in society. They never threatened anyone, and it is also proved by the fact that on first day of this operation, local people of the area were also protesting against army on the streets, and one of the local bussiness man shot dead by police. When injured female students brought to Hospital, local people at hospitals started shouting against govt that lead to huge presence of army at hospitals after that.

They were not intolerant, this media is sick and liar. They cut their electricity,water , and gas that pressurized students to come out. There is a continue stream of students coming out from Masjid one by one, and at the same time media is reporting that they are forcefully kept in Masjid. What a lie? we can see them coming after each hour, how is it possible if they are forcefully kept there? female students were shouting on army when they came out, and when a reporter asked male students will they came back, they were saying yes we will.

The real funny thing is when they take interview on state TV of pakistan of captured moulana, they forced him to wear burqa again. This is so sick mentality of our govt. But Livius , it is just a start, insha Allah, you will soon see chain reaction of thi incident.

 

And now my turn of question, Do you think US administration is tolerant? and there policy is not to persecute those who do not believe the way America do? I hope you will think for a minute or two beofre answering.

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iftikharalam question is also good ? :sl: Pls answer

Edited by PeaceAll

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:sl: Dear muslims

 

Isnt that part of western Ideology as well ?

 

Mass mudering 100,000s in the name of Implementing so called democracy ? on people who dont want them their to start with ?

 

very very Good Point.

 

Should let a few members think about it

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Did the students not sieze four policemen and hold them hostage?

 

They requests movies shops to not to sell adult movies, that is all.

 

They did not request. They threatened with violence and vandalized them. And it wasn't just adult movies either, it was music shops too.

 

If someone is doing something that I don't like does that give me the right to threaten them with violence or kidnap them? Are you condoning their kidnappings?

 

Do you believe that any group that disagrees with a governments position should be allowed to hold armed standoffs with that government?

 

As for the questions, if you want to turn this issue, which is about Pakistan, into another "The USA is horrible" thread then start a new one. This thread is about what is happening in Pakistan.

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:sl:d ear muslims

 

Livius, im amazed as to how much you know about everything.

 

Livius, this "incident" did not spring up over night. Its been at Boiling Point for Some Time now. Problem is, the Law in Pakistan is not being enforced Properly.

 

Prostitution and Drugs etc are growing and getting out of Hand.

 

Little "Novelties" like Adult Material is circulating now.

 

Pakistan has the Leading Sales in Pirating Movies.

 

The Problem is the Police are incompetent and do very little.

 

Try to understand whats going on Livius. If the Government Promises to do somehting, its their Job to go and do it. Even if its a half attempt, its something. But little is being done.

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Did the students not sieze four policemen and hold them hostage?

They did not request. They threatened with violence and vandalized them. And it wasn't just adult movies either, it was music shops too.

 

If someone is doing something that I don't like does that give me the right to threaten them with violence or kidnap them? Are you condoning their kidnappings?

 

Do you believe that any group that disagrees with a governments position should be allowed to hold armed standoffs with that government?

 

As for the questions, if you want to turn this issue, which is about Pakistan, into another "The USA is horrible" thread then start a new one. This thread is about what is happening in Pakistan.

 

Well, I can understand when exagerated facts and figures came out from a man who don't know pakistani society, and is sitting in some different part of a world. There was no threat even between the lines in the letters they distributed in market. They burn cds when one of the owner of movie shop stoped his bussiness on his own will and give these students cds. And for your second question, I wrote an article in which I answered the same question in detail, I will appreciate if you read it, and comment about it. It may be good reading for you as it is coming out from a Pakistani, not from biased Western media.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_iftikharalam.blogspot(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/2007/06/red-mosque-and-confused-nation.html"]The Red Masjid and Confused Nation.[/url] For answers of your questions, one needs to know Pakistani society, our system and root causes.

 

Anyway, the whole thing going on is horrible... that place is filled with dead bodies of men and women, and according to reports, hundreds of women are still inside who don't wanna come out. ARY tv reporter was talking with one student Asma Azhar on phone inside Lal Masjid live on that channel, and she was saying it will be better to die and get shahada instead of surrender. And all remaining women wrote their last will today. Although, 20-25 women came out today when army sent parents in Masjid, but many came out with empty hands when their daughters and sons refused to come out. Women who came out were also under pressure by their parents.. Walahu Aalim, but for me they all should surrender.. They did what ever was in their hands.. and Allah swt knows this, and they will be rewarded for their struggle Insha Allah. but now, it is useless to give their lives.. they can go home if they come out, they will become great mothers and insha Allah their sons will be mujahids. They should not waste their lives, they should not. It is amnesty for all who are coming out, except Masjid leader..

 

I will not turn it into an anti US thread, but I really want to know answer of my last question Livius.

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Everyone feels sad for innocent little students and their parents who are caught between radicals and govt force.

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Problem is, the Law in Pakistan is not being enforced Properly.

 

I have one point here to discuss that whatever be the case rebellion against muslims govt is wrong.

Is this modern Kharijism ? :sl:

 

Anyone has read the history about Kharijism ? I feel things similar may be or maybe not :sl:

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Do you think US administration is tolerant? and there policy is not to persecute those who do not believe the way America do?

 

It depends on the situation you are speaking of. If US citizens were kidnapping people, especially police officers, then I doubt they would be as patient or tolerant as the Pakistani government has been.

 

In the letters to the store owners was there a one month ultimatum? The reports I have read all concur. What is implied was going to happen after that month was up if they did not comply with their demands?

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The letter story was in the beginning of all this, and that was 6 months back, so nothing happened after that accused one month warning.. which was not there at the first place.. A pathetic lie.. Do you read the article?

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I read the article, but I don't usually use blogs as factual sources.

 

Do you support their kidnapping of police officers and women who they feel are being immoral? Don't you think this is a dangerous precedent to set, for people to kidnap and scare anyone they feel is not living up to their standards?

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I have one point here to discuss that whatever be the case rebellion against muslims govt is wrong.

Is this modern Kharijism ? :sl:

 

Anyone has read the history about Kharijism ? I feel things similar may be or maybe not :sl:

 

They are noy like kharijis.. They never killed anyone, they never even injured anyone... plz don't fall in to the trap of media propoganda.. they were just trying to bring a reform in society.. If they wanted to kill than they had enough men, enough power and weapons that they can esily jump into any brothel and can kill anyone and than easily run away, that was the easy way out and pakistani pathetic police can never catch them, but they never did that. They took every action on the request of local people, and if you know , when they raided Chinese brothel, students of Becaon House, one of the most expensive english medium school were also there.

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I read the article, but I don't usually use blogs as factual sources.

 

Do you support their kidnapping of police officers and women who they feel are being immoral? Don't you think this is a dangerous precedent to set, for people to kidnap and scare anyone they feel is not living up to their standards?

 

Livius, I don't think that you have any intentions to seek truth.. There were no facts and figures in my blog, it was situation of My country, and I pointed out root causes and failure of our system that creates all this fuss and extremist action from these students. I wrote there

 

Although actions of students of Jamia Hafsa are not proper but again, what other options are left? When brothels are operating next door? And when people complaint to police they refused to take any action. When there is no Islamic system even though Pakistan was created in the name of Islam. When Pakistan gain 12th position in “Failed state index†under 8 year rule of current secular dictatorship. I don't know what else one can do to make things right...

 

The fact is that there is no rule of law in this country.. Police refused to take action against brothel owner, so people come to them and they took action on request of local people.. Infact, on first day of this operation, local people and local bussiness men were also protesting in favour of Red Masjid in which one of the bussiness man killed by police fire.

Do you know the case of missing people in Pakistan? 100s of people are picked up by security agencies without a hint.. now no one can go to judiciary or police as they are just missing.. 11 of jamia faridia students were kidnapped by agencies similarly and were not brought to courts by secret agencies, that is why they kidnapped policemen, and you know what? after two days, all of these kidnapped students were released.. So what pressurize them to kidnap police? Our stupid pathetic system, and kidnapping by secret agencies.. In second part of my article I wrote about all these pathetic systems in pakistan in detail..

 

So they were forced to do these extreme actions that are no doubt in an ideal state such as sweden or norway are wrong.. but pakistan is on number 12 on failed states index.. things are slightly change here.. if state is doing unlawful activities, and if people get kidnapped here without any charge and later sold to CIA than be ready, this is coming.. and state create all this and is responsible.. 48 people killed on 12th may in Karachi, and every one knows one of the party in govt did that to stop anti givt rally, but no action taken against them.. But these people are burned alive in bombings, women were killed just becue thay want to make thinsg better in our pathtic sick society and system.

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:sl:

Don't be fooled please,

The Lal Masjid is now and has always been a creation of the inteligence agencies. It was allowed to create a stir in order to distract from the growing opposition movement against Musharraf. It is not a coi9ncidence that this issue flares up every time the CJ case goes against the govt. The issue could have been resolved months ago...but allowing it to carry on lets Musharraf show the world that he is all that stands betyween Pakistan and some mythical Taliban takeover...ridiculous. But you have ALL fallen for it. How stupid is that? People who will believe any wild conspiracy theory will not see this issue for what it is simply because, on the face of it, it fits their little worldview. No wonder the muslims are in such bad shape. Try a little logic, a little critical thought instead of wasting your prayers on these cultish criminals.

 

And please do NOT ascribe any kind of moral superiority to the LM. They are criminals. They have built a Masjid on illegally occupied land. They have kidnapped people and occupied a children's library. Most importantly, if they are such good muslims, as some of you seem to think then consider this: They asked for a ruling from the Imam-e-Kaaba himself. When he ruled against them...on ALL counts, they ignored the ruling. How does this fit with your worldview?

 

Lately, the militants have been firing on parents who ere trying to get their children out of the Masjid. Is this Islamic? They have preached armed insurrection against the state. Is this Islamic?

 

Please do not let your dislike for Musharraf colour your views. If you are drowning and a cannibal throws you a lifeline...this does not mean he wants to save your life.

 

And yes, the rule of law is not established in Pakistan, but to use that to excuse the LM actions is a weak argument. It's like saying...hey...if criminals break the law, why can't clerics?If the Quraish carried out massacres, should the muslims of medina have done the same? This is the logical conclusion of that line of argument.

This is a DRAMA. Get over yourselves amd think for a change.

:sl:

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Bro Ozy, with all due respect I am not agree with your claim that they are criminals..

I make my point clear here (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_iftikharalam.blogspot(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/2007/06/red-mosque-and-confused-nation.html"]Red Masjid and confused nation part 1[/url]

and (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_iftikharalam.blogspot(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/2007/07/red-mosque-and-confused-nation-2.html"]Red Masjid and confused nation part 2[/url] plz do read these, and tell me where I am wrong.. few of your sentences were also used in this article. so plz read..

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Bro Ozy, with all due respect I am not agree with your claim that they are criminals..

I make my point clear here (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_iftikharalam.blogspot(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/2007/06/red-mosque-and-confused-nation.html"]Red Masjid and confused nation part 1[/url]

and (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_iftikharalam.blogspot(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/2007/07/red-mosque-and-confused-nation-2.html"]Red Masjid and confused nation part 2[/url] plz do read these, and tell me where I am wrong.. few of your sentences were also used in this article. so plz read..

 

Will check it out and get bacvk to you.

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