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Christian Hypocrisy

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:sl:

 

I look forward to seeing what the Christians have to say about this..

 

 

 

 

Mehmet

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GAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! I don't have time to do this topic justice.

 

...and I can't NOT respond however.

 

Peace Righteous!

 

Did you ever get my second PM?

 

I think the video is a great bit of propaganda, and probably employs the exact same tactic that they accusing others of using against Islam. I know a paranoid old woman who fears Muslims because of a few verses in the Quran (she has a copy and read it), something about "killing them in their towers." Verses out of context can do that.

 

I cannot respond to every single verse they quoted, but I can respond to clusters of them.

 

The passages found in Numbers and Deuteronomy have to do with the conquest of Canaan. These were nations that God had judged, and the israelites were to be the agents of that judgement. Their pagan culture involved ritual killing of infants and religious orgies, and God wanted it ended once and for all. Not the first time God wiped out whole peoples. (remember the flood?) Yes, it seems barbaric by today's standards. Since you directed this at Christians and not Jews, let me tell you what we do with these verses.

 

We understand the Old Testament through the lens of the New. We see our spiritual struggles mirrored in the struggles of the children of israel. It's like a physical drama that instructs our spiritual life.

 

Canaan was a rich land, very blessed with natural abundance. It was also dotted with walled cities—strongholds—that were centers of unimaginable wickedness. The Jews had to clear them out to possess the blessing of the land, and to avoid being drawn into the sin of the surrounding nations. In truth, they did the job halfway, and as a result, struggled with wars and spiritual corruption from the pagan nations until the israel and then Judea was destroyed.

 

The Christian understanding is found in our spiritual lives. We have the promise of God's blessing, but our lives are dotted with strongholds of sin; lust, pride, unforgivness, bitterness, and the like. If we are to truly possess God's blessing, we must ruthlessly go after the strongholds in our own lives and tear them down, leaving no trace. If we fail to, then something like bitterness or lust will return again and again, robbing us of peace and the blessing God has for us. There is no truce with sin.

 

The other cluster has to do with Jesus' words about not coming to bring peace, but a sword. He was talking about the struggles believers would have as they converted. I am sure that many people who convert to Islam from another religious tradition face similar strife at the hands of their families. Heck, there are people on this forum who agree that if someone converted to Christianity from Islam they should be killed. Please remember that Christianity was an illegal religion for much of the early centuries. Christians were dispised by the Romans and viewed as athiests and political subversives because they refused to worship the Emperor. They were killed by the thousands. Jesus was simply saying that following him had a cost, and that it might cost you your family and even your life. Nowhere does Jesus nor any New Testament writer advocate taking up arms against other people. Paul even states quite clearly that any fighting Christians do is to be done spiritually:

 

Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. (Ephesians 6:10-13)

 

I could go on...but don't have the time... The verses they quote have a context, without which one cannot understand the message. I saw one flash by about the martyrdom of Stephen, who was killed by a Jewish mob for preaching the gospel—that's hardly a slam against the Bible.

 

My final response to this video is to be sad that there is so much strife, misunderstanding and competition between the Children of Abraham.

 

God Bless!

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:sl: 'me'

 

No need to explain to me the verses.

 

In fact, I am tempted to do what the majority of Christians do. Call Christianity a barbaric religion, don't listen to any responses, bring a few muslims in here to join in with me and make the world know how barbaric Christianity really is. I know you don't do this 'me' but the majority of people do. In fact I am repeatedly getting PMs saying how barbaric my religion is and what not.

 

Since Christians wont stop doing this, I will do it too. I think I will make hundreds of threads exposing mistakes in your scriptures, and then whenever Christians attack Islam I will direct them to it. Infact, I should make a blog about it.

 

This isn't aimed at attacking you 'me' I know you are a nice person, it's a shame some people on these forums are not as nice.

 

 

Mehmet

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is it outta context

 

Absolutely. In fact, I don't think that the first two verses even exist. I was unable to find it in King James or my current version. Thank you for recognizing that.

 

Righteous, who pm's you and insults your religion? That is awful. Do you get these with regularity?

 

There is no reason to ask you to stop posting these "interpretations", seeing as part of the purpose of this forum is to "Refute Non-Muslims". But I hope you recognise that it is impossible to make attacks against christianity and not intend it to be directed at "me". It is especially unfortunate that you don't even want the verses explained.

Edited by Russ of Vespuccia

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Grace and peace to you sir!

 

I understand your frustration. It's been a while, but I can remember the smug condescension of secularists when they learned I was a Christian. They treated me as if I were brain-damaged.

 

My only advice would be to remember that you are not just you, but also a representative of your faith. The opinions of the ignorant do not amount to an ant hill.

 

"The best revenge is living well."

 

Take care!

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:sl:

 

I am sure that some of the verses are out of context, but I'm just trying to make a point here - This is what people on these forums do, and I really don't appreciate it. If a muslim here says something out of line, usually a muslim speaks out against it because we are commanded to "enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong".

 

Or another example.. people are quick to make threads when something bad is said about muslims on the news.. yet how many people condemn the American / British army when they murder, rape, destory homes.. us muslims don't have a problem with admitting our wrongs but it seems to me sometimes Christians/Jews do.. yet they are so eager to show muslims in a bad light without looking to see if this is what Islam really tells us to do.

 

I hope my point here is being understood. I am not trying to attack anyone.

 

 

Mehmet

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:sl:

 

I am sure that some of the verses are out of context, but I'm just trying to make a point here - This is what people on these forums do, and I really don't appreciate it. If a muslim here says something out of line, usually a muslim speaks out against it because we are commanded to "enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong".

 

Or another example.. people are quick to make threads when something bad is said about muslims on the news.. yet how many people condemn the American / British army when they murder, rape, destory homes.. us muslims don't have a problem with admitting our wrongs but it seems to me sometimes Christians/Jews do.. yet they are so eager to show muslims in a bad light without looking to see if this is what Islam really tells us to do.

 

I hope my point here is being understood. I am not trying to attack anyone.

Mehmet

 

I'm sorry but your pulling the American Republican Right Wing, "ZOMG were innocent, and the liberals control all the media, everyones so unfair to us boo hoo." Routine.

 

It is no more true them than you. Maybe when a Muslim speaks out against you it is because they disagree with you? Does it happen a lot? I can't imagine why.

 

I mean when you click on the political section on this forum its not like the majority of threads are anti american, england etc etc....

 

You say your not trying to attack anyone but if made post stated: Islamic Hypocrisy filled with out of context quotes I'm sure others would think differently.

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If you don't like the way some people treat your faith why would you do it to others? Why don't you step above that course of action and truly try to understand our faith and teach us about your faith. Since you believe that your faith is not barbaric then show us why it isn't. Tit for tat never gets you point across it just makes you look worst and less credible. (Especially if you know some of the quotes were out of context.) And even if you don't want to seem like you are attacking us that is exactly what that movie looks like.

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Assalamulikum to you dear Righteous,

 

There are many anti-Islam websites and media that slander, insult and degrade Islam, the prophet Muhammad and Muslims. And we know the people who are behind the anti-Islam websites and media!

 

The Christian Bible divides the books of the Bible into two parts; the Old Testament primarily sourced from the Tanakh (with some variations), and the New Testament. Therefore the OT is a part of the Christian Bible.

 

Christians nowadays claim that the Old Testament is defunct for Jesus was the “lamb” to clear away its rules and regulations. This is just another scapegoat that Christians use to ignore the atrocities and bizarre laws commanded by their god. A list of verses which clearly show that the Old Testament is not to be ignored. Its laws should indeed be adhered to, for the New Testament demands it:

 

1) “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself.

 

2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

 

3) According to the Gospel, Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

 

Therefore your Post #1 exposes the OT and NT and I enjoy watching it!!

Edited by wiseguy

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Robert Morey is one of the Christians who invent lies and fairy tales to insult, degrade and slander Islam, the prophet Muhammad and Muslims! I am not surprised to see Christians insulting, slandering and degrading Islam , the prophet Muhammad and Muslims because churches are behind the anti-Islam Christians!

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Robert Morey is one of the Christians who invent lies and fairy tales to insult, degrade and slander Islam, the prophet Muhammad and Muslims! I am not surprised to see Christians insulting, slandering and degrading Islam , the prophet Muhammad and Muslims because churches are behind the anti-Islam Christians!

 

Here is a good question for the Muslims here.

 

Who is a Christian?

What does it take to become a Christian?

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Here is a good question for the Muslims here.

 

Who is a Christian?

What does it take to become a Christian?

 

You claim that you are a Christian and so is Robert Morey who slanders, degrades and insults Islam and Muslims. It seems to me that he is so desperate that he slanders, degrades and insults Islam and Muslims to pit non-Muslims against Muslims and Islam!

 

Robert Morey (born 1946) is a Christian apologist and pastor who has written a number of books and pamphlets. He strongly criticises Islam, Wicca, and non-Evangelical Christian beliefs. He is the founder, executive officer, and primary faculty member of the California Biblical University and Seminary, an unaccredited school offering distance education programs under Morey and adjunct faculty.

Edited by wiseguy

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You claim that you are a Christian and so is Robert Morey who slanders, degrades and insults Islam and Muslims. It seems to me that he is so desperate that he slanders, degrades and insults Islam and Muslims to pit non-Muslims against Muslims and Islam!

 

Robert Morey (born 1946) is a Christian apologist and pastor who has written a number of books and pamphlets. He strongly criticises Islam, Wicca, and non-Evangelical Christian beliefs. He is the founder, executive officer, and primary faculty member of the California Biblical University and Seminary, an unaccredited school offering distance education programs under Morey and adjunct faculty.

 

I would respond, but the last time I did I had my post deleted because "this is not the place.." blah blah

 

So, my question stands.

 

What does it take to become a Christian?

 

Whether or not you believe Christ was who he said he was, I would like you muslims to see from the bible what it takes to become a christian, then apply that formula to these "christians" that you quote so happily. You will find that 99.3999% of the people you quote as christians are actually not.

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These ignorant men such as Robert Morey, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell etc claim that they are Christians and they invent lies and fairy tales to insult and slander Islam and Muslims. Would you please tell Robert Morey, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell etc and the world that they not Christians? I would like to read their answers.

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Here is a good question for the Muslims here.

 

Who is a Christian?

What does it take to become a Christian?

 

From what I hear, being a Christian means believing that Jesus is the son of God, and that he died for our sins. And I'm sure some would also say that being a Christian also means being a good person. Perhaps you could correct me if I'm wrong. :sl:

 

Salam.

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From what I hear, being a Christian means believing that Jesus is the son of God, and that he died for our sins. And I'm sure some would also say that being a Christian also means being a good person. Perhaps you could correct me if I'm wrong. :sl:

 

Salam.

 

Most of Christians believe in the Trinity thus they deny the Oneness of God and they also worship Jesus as their 'god'. How can a Christian be a good person when he or she follow the books of the OT and NT that contradict one another and they also worship Jesus who is a powerless man instead of One True God?

Edited by wiseguy

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I wont go into the topic of who is a real Christian or what it takes to be a Christian, but rather I would like to know, as I have heard from some source, that if we are Muslims, we ought to follow Jesus and seek guidance from the Jews and Christians. Is this true??

 

What are the sources?

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Salaam,

 

Layna, I would broadly agree with you. There are Christians who do bad and nasty things just like there are Muslims, Hindus and Atheists who do bad and nasty things. I try not to judge a person's religious on their actions alone as I cannot make a window into a man's sole. I merely say that whilst they may be Christian, they're behaviour is un-Christianlike.

 

Maybe the distinction is especially easy in Christianity as it is more a a 'spirit' religion than Islam (a more 'action' religion). I realise the model is crude, but I think you'll understnad what I mean.

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

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I wont go into the topic of who is a real Christian or what it takes to be a Christian, but rather I would like to know, as I have heard from some source, that if we are Muslims, we ought to follow Jesus and seek guidance from the Jews and Christians. Is this true??

 

If you followed Christ, that would make you a Christian, so you would take guidance from older christians. Why would you take guidance from the Jews? The Old Covenant was fulfilled when Christ did his thing. There is just the new covenant. So following them would be incorrect

 

As Christ said in Matthew 5:17

 

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

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I think what you said is right to some extent, however, even demons believe that Jesus is the Son of God, so obviously that alone does not make you a Christian. That a Christian believes that Jesus is their Lord and Saviour is what grants him salvation according to their belief.

 

The Old Testament denies that Jesus is the Lord and Saviour when the OT states that "And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me "(Isaiah 45:21) and " I am the LORD your God from the land of Egypt; you know no God but me, and besides me there is no savior." (Hosea 13:4 ).

 

Jesus is not a savior according to the Gospels:

 

Jesus gives No protection to his apostles; Jesus afraid people may discover him says;

 

"He [Jesus] said unto them [the disciples], But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God. And he straightly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing." (Luke 9:20 and 21)

 

Jesus, to even further clarify for us that he is not our Savior, infront of the crowd, asked Allah to Save him

 

"And he [Jesus] said, "Abba, Father, all things are possible to thee; remove this cup from me; yet not what I will, but what thou wilt." ("Mark 14:36)

 

Jesus asked our Creator to be his Savior from death, symbolized as "this cup" in Mark 14, undisputedly revealing that Jesus can not be our Savior if he himself prayed for a Savior.

 

Even Jesus's disciples knew Jesus does not protect or save, when mere men (soldiers) arrested Jesus, the disciples decided to abandon Jesus and not seek protection in Jesus;

 

" Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled." (Matthew 26:56)

 

Allah is the Savior and Only

 

The Holy Quran states:

 

39: 61 But Allah will deliver the righteous to their place of salvation: no evil shall touch them, nor shall they grieve.

 

2:160 Except those who repent and make amends and openly declare (the Truth): To them I turn; for I am Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

 

Now you have Allah who states He will save you, and you have Jesus who states he will not save you, who would you take as a Savior ?

 

Allah Saves, through my daily reading and searching through the Gospel, not once have I found a verse where Jesus states he will save us from the Fire, while it is abundant in the Holy Quran that Allah has the Power to save us from Hell:

 

"And hold fast, All together, by the Rope Which Allah (stretches out For you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah's favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, Ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the Pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided." {Translation of the Holy Qur'an 3:103}

 

This is one of the reasons that Muslims declare Allah is our Savior, study Islam with an open mind and heart, learn what Allah can do for your soul.

 

But I am also still trying to understand more about what I heard from some Christian who claimed that Muslims ought to obey Jesus, and that if Muhammad had doubts he should consult the Jew's and Christians. This Christian told me to read Sura 3:44-56 (he said particularly 3:50,53,55). And also Sura 10:94.Now I can't read the Arabic, so can someone please explain what these versus say, because in the english is seems to confirm what these Christians were saying.

 

We Muslims believe that the original teachings of Moses and Jesus are true. However, the teachings of Moses and Jesus were corrupted into a lie by Jews and Christians so we will not consult Jews and Christians. For example Jesus said that God is One and Only but Christians contradict Jesus by saying that God is One in Three! To replace the corrupt books that contradict themselves, God sends the Holy Quran to all mankind through the prophet Muhammad to guide them back to the path of God.

 

How can we obey Jesus when God sent Jesus to the lost sheep of the house of israel only and God did not send Jesus to gentiles? Even the Gospels tell us that Jesus refused to accept Gentiles as his followers! We obey Muhammad because God sends Muhammad to all mankind after Jesus was gone so we Muslims have to obey the prophet Muhammad.

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Most of Christians believe in the Trinity thus they deny the Oneness of God and they also worship Jesus as their 'god'. How can a Christian be a good person when he or she follow the books of the OT and NT that contradict one another and they also worship Jesus who is a powerless man instead of One True God?

 

You might want to reanalyze that statement. Or do you believe that anyone who doesn't believe what you do cant possibly be a good person (assuming for the sake of arguement that anything you just said is true)?

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You might want to reanalyze that statement. Or do you believe that anyone who doesn't believe what you do cant possibly be a good person (assuming for the sake of arguement that anything you just said is true)?

 

If you worship a man, a cross, an idol, an animal etc , you deny the existence of One True God (Allah) so how can you be a good person who deny the existence of One True God who has created you?

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Please do not try and use logic in regards to ######s posts, it only confuses him. The Trinity confuses him enough already. The concept of a God in three forms is too much for some people to comprehend.

 

######,

 

H20 is water, correct? It is also ice and steam, depending on which form it happens to take at that moment. Regardless of what form it is in it is still H20, no matter what form it happens to be taking at that moment.

 

I am not a Christian yet I have little difficulty understanding that concept. I can only assume that you have difficulty accepting it because you either don't have the mental capacity to understand it or you simply refuse to admit that you understand it. Which is it?

Edited by Livius

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If you want to prove something wrong I say instead of discussing its details check out its roots. Because a lie will always be a lie no matter how much truth is piled upon it. So let's check out Christianity's roots;

-First of all we all know that Jesus spoke Hebrew not Latin which is now considered by Christians the language of god! Were all it really is the language of the Romans……. So that’s the first issue.

- Second the first bible was written around 300 A.C. that’s over 2 centuries after Jesus had died (assuming that he died which he didn’t). And it was written during the great roman emperor Constantine's rule after he had converted to this new strange religion (as it was back then) considering that the bible was written over 200 years after Jesus by a roman monarch whom believed in polytheism and whom was influenced by pagan priests, I would say the whole multiple deity thing was pretty much his idea.

- Third I would like to understand why there is a cross on every Christian's neck and on churches, cathedrals etc… it was a roman tool of torture, had nothing to do with god. Yet people needed to touch things and there it was they touched a roman death toy and felt good about it…….

- Forth why is Rome considered a land bless by god! Where up to our knowledge Jesus never been there nor have any other prophet we know of. I mean Christians to this day go on pilgrims to the Vatican only to visit this over rated cathedral built by the Romans. I mean not even the cathedral in Jerusalem had any thing to do with Jesus it was all Roman.

 

If you asked me I would rather call you Christians ''Romans look a likes'' because this is more of a Roman religion then one that is sent by god.

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