Jump to content
Islamic Forum
wiseguy

The Uk, Us And Israeli Regimes Bomb Civilian Targets In Iraq

Recommended Posts

Assalamu'alaikum Wr.Wb

 

Assalamualikum

what the hell do u call the land of the non-muslims...dar-ul-kufr.....

There can't be dar-ul-kufr without dar al-Islam, am I right SJ54?

 

Wassalam,

Yasnov

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PropellerAds
Assalamualikum

the only thing wrong is within ur head...maybe u should see a pshycologist...you might need pshycological help

 

 

 

I was thinking the same thing. :sl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey ######, let me clear something up for you, okay pumpkin.... Korea was not invaded by the US. We were asked by the South Korea to help and like we always do, we helped them, ok! Now to Vietnam. Same situation. History check!!! Laos, never occupied that country. The North Vet's crossed thru that country and the same with Cambodia. Now Somalia. We were thier to make sure the poor people were getting the food that US tax payers were paying for and were not getting cause the Islam war lord were taking it. Nice Muslims right? Libya, there was never a conflict there, we just bombed the crap out of it cause of thier sicko pres and his son got it. Now Ledanon, again helping out another counrty becasue we were asked to and Americans died to protect them. Now Nicaragua and El Salvador, My girlfriend is from El Salvador and she says your an ediot. Panama, another murderious dictator. I can go on and on and on. Plez, Plez do you home work my bro before you rant on about stuff you have NO IDEA ABOUT! Thank and God Bless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey ######, let me clear something up for you, okay pumpkin.... Korea was not invaded by the US. We were asked by the South Korea to help and like we always do, we helped them, ok!

 

Korean people wanted a united KOREA not South nor North Korea but the West denied the right of Korean people by splitting Korea into South Korea and North Korea so the people of Korea fought the American forces and their allies to liberate Korea. The US forces retaliated by raping, terrorizing, torturing and massacring millions of innocent and defenseless Korea people and attacking and destroying civilian targets in Korea.

 

For example: American troops were under orders to consider any Korean civilians on the battlefield approaching their position as hostile, and were instructed to "neutralize" them because of fears of infiltration. This led to the indiscriminate killings of hundreds of South Korean civilians by the U.S. military at places such as No Gun Ri, where many defenseless refugees — most of whom were women, children and old men — were shot at by the U.S. Army and may have been strafed by the U.S. Air Force. Recently, the U.S. admitted having a policy of strafing civilians in other places and times. (Source:

(1)Hanley, Charles J., Martha Mendoza. "U.S. Policy Was to Shoot Korean Refugees", The Washington Post, Associated Press, 2006-05-29.

(2)Hanley, Charles J., Martha Mendoza. "Letter reveals U.S. intent at No Gun Ri", New Orleans Times-Picayune, Associated Press, 2007-04-13.)

 

Therefore the US regime and the US forces are among the worst terrorist organization.

 

Now to Vietnam. Same situation.

 

The US forces have raped, terrorized, tortured and massacred millions of of innocent and defenseless Vietnamese people and attacked and destroyed civilian targets in Vietnam during the Vietnam War. The US also sprayed 80 million litres of poisonous chemicals during Operation Ranchhand. There were many Agents used, including Pink, Green and White, but Agent Orange was used the most - 45 million litres sprayed over a 10th of Vietnam. Agent Orange in particular was laced with dioxins - extremely toxic to humans. Dioxins accumulate in the body to cause cancers. Anyone eating or drinking in contaminated areas then receives an even higher dose.

 

For example:

 

The My Lai Massacre (pronunciation (help·info), approximately [mi.˧˩˥'lɐːj˧˧]) (Vietnamese: thảm sát Mỹ Lai) was the mass murder of 347 to 504 unarmed Vietnamese civilians, mostly women and children, conducted by U.S. Army forces on March 16, 1968, in the hamlets of My Lai and My Khe,[3] during the Vietnam War. Before being killed some of the victims were raped and sexually molested, beaten, tortured, or maimed. Some of the dead bodies were also mutilated. (Reference: Murder in the name of war - My Lai". BBC. July 20, 1998)

 

History check!!! Laos, never occupied that country.

 

Vang Pao, prominent Laotian exile leader and legendary CIA asset during the CIA's clandestine Indochinese wars of the 1960s and 1970s was among 10 men arrested on June 4, 2007, and accused of plotting a catastrophic military strike against the Laotian government using mercenary forces. According to US attorney Bob Twiss, the ten individuals are the plot leaders, but "thousands of co-conspirators remain at large, many in other countries."

The other leading co-conspirator arrested was Harrison Ulrich Jack, a member of the California National Guard, and a retired Army officer who was a CIA covert operative in Southeast Asia before leaving active duty in 1977. According to the ATF agent, Jack quoted Lo Cha Thao, the president of the nonprofit organization United Hmong International, and one of the other Hmong co-conspirators, as saying that "the CIA was preparing to assist the Hmong insurgency once the takeover of Laos had begun"

 

General Vang Pao, a CIA "cutout", led a guerrilla army of CIA-backed Hmong tribesmen in the secret Laos proxy wars in the 1960s, and in the 1970s as a general in the Royal Army of Laos. When the US finally left Vietnam in 1975, Pao, with assistance from the American intelligence community, fled to the United States, with many of his associates in a mass exodus.

 

The CIA's Air America military/intelligence/narco-trafficking operation, and Vang Pao, are richly detailed in two definitive histories, Alfred McCoy's The Politics of Heroin: CIA Complicity in the Global Drug Trade and Peter Dale Scott's Drugs, Oil and War: The United States in Afghanistan, Colombia and Indochina.

Air America was one of the most notorious of CIA proprietary airlines and a key component in the US government's notorious Golden Triangle heroin trafficking operations in the 1960s and 1970s. Air America began in 1950 as CAT (Civil Air Transport), and was the largest CIA proprietary in Asia.

 

McCoy summarizes the Air America/Vang Pao relationship in the following excerpt [my emphasis in bold-LC]:

"The CIA ran a series of covert warfare operations along the China border that were instrumental in the creation of the Golden Triangle heroin complexin Laos from 1960 to 1975, the CIA created a secret army of Hmong tribesmen to battle Laotian Communists near the border with North Vietnam. Since Hmong's main cash crop was opium, the CIA adopted a complicitous posture toward the traffic, allowing the Hmong commander General Vang Pao, to use the CIA's Air America to collect opium from his scattered highland villages. In late 1969, the CIA's various covert action clients opened a network of heroin laboratories in the Golden Triangle. In their first years of operation, these laboratories exported high grade no. 4 heroin to US troops fighting in Vietnam. After their withdrawal, the Golden Triangle laboratories exported directly to the United States, capturing one-third of the American heroin market."

 

1957 - 1973

American Genocide of the Laotian People

 

Estimated total civilian deaths: over 500,000 people.

 

The Laotian left, led by the Pathet Lao, tried to effect social change peacefully, making significant electoral gains and taking part in coalition governments. But the United States would have none of that.

The CIA and the State Department, through force, bribery and other pressures, engineered coups in 1958, 1959 and 1960. Eventually, the only option left for the Pathet Lao was armed force.

The CIA created its famous "Arme Clandestine" – totaling 30,000, from every corner of Asia – to do battle, while the US Air Force, between 1965 and 1973, rained down more than two million tons of bombs upon the people of Laos, many of whom were forced to live in caves for years in a desperate attempt to escape the monsters falling from the sky.

After hundreds of thousands had been killed, many more maimed, and countless bombed villages with hardly stone standing upon stone, the Pathet Lao took control of the country, following on the heels of events in Vietnam.

 

The North Vet's crossed thru that country and the same with Cambodia.

 

As the war in Vietnam spilled across Cambodia's borders, the US under Nixon and Kissinger launched "secret" and murderous air attacks on Cambodia's eastern border in its effort to wipe out Vietnamese communists. When revelations of this violation of a neutral country reached the anti-war movement and sparked public protest, the US temporarily halted the bombings and deployed a covert army of ground troops. But as soon as the political heat died, the bombers flew again and rained down the equivalent of five Hiroshimas on a country which had no quarrel with the US.

 

Apart from killing innumerable Cambodians and returning parts of Cambodia to the Stone Age, Washington's military and political intervention had other, long-lasting consequences. In March 1970, just after US ground troops invaded, a ClA-backed coup deposed King Norodom Sihanouk. His pro-Washington replacement, Lon Nol, who ruled from 1970 to 1975, was a weak, corrupt despot rejected by much of the nation. Antagonism to his regime, outrage over US bombing, and the starvation and destruction which flowed from Washington's policies in Southeast Asia breathed new life into Cambodia's Khmer Rouge. From the jungle where it had been banished by Sihanouk in the 1960s, the movement rapidly built popular support.

 

Out of the inferno of civil war and foreign invasion, the Khmer Rouge and its leader, Pol Pot, gained strength and in April 1975 took power.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Now Somalia. We were thier to make sure the poor people were getting the food that US tax payers were paying for and were not getting cause the Islam war lord were taking it. Nice Muslims right?

The US invaded and occupied Somalia under the pretext of feeding the poor while terrorizing and massacring Somalian babies, children, women, elderly people, unarmed men. The US forces tried to eliminate the leaders of Somalia by attacking Mogadishu etc that caused Somalian people to fight the US forces.

 

Libya, there was never a conflict there, we just bombed the crap out of it cause of thier sicko pres and his son got it.

The US regime was tricked by the israeli regime and Mossad's deception into attacking Libya.

 

According to Victor Ostrovsky, a defector from israel's secret service, Mossad, israel decided to mount a false flag operation designed to further discredit Libya, and provoke the US to attack an Arab nation. A transmitter loaded with pre-recorded messages was planted in Tripoli, Libya, by a Mossad team.

 

The `Trojan Horse' beamed out fake messages about Libyan-authorized bombings and planned attacks that were immediately intercepted by US electronic monitoring. Convinced by this disinformation that Libya was behind the 1986 bombing of a Berlin disco in which a US soldier died, President Ronald Reagan ordered massive air attacks on Libya, including an obvious- and illegal (under US law) attempt to assassinate Qadaffi himself. Some 100 Libyan civilians were killed, including Qadaffi's two year old daughter. Libyan officials had no idea why they were attacked.

 

It is worth remembering the motto of the Mossad is, "By way of deception, thou shalt do war."

 

Source: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetwhatreallyhappened(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/hoax.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetwhatreallyhappened(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/hoax.html[/url]

 

Now Ledanon, again helping out another counrty becasue we were asked to and Americans died to protect them.

We know that the US regime is an israeli ally so the US regime had the power to stop the israeli invasion of Lebanon but the US allowed the israeli regime of terror to invade Lebanon and destroy Lebanon and massacre innocent Lebanese and Palestnian people. After the destruction of Lebanon , the US regime occupied Lebanon. It was an israeli-US conspiracy!

 

Now Nicaragua and El Salvador, My girlfriend is from El Salvador and she says your an ediot.

 

Oh you Slay seems to be very clever for writing the word 'ediot'. Where do you learn to write that?

 

It seems to me that you and your girlfriend are a bunch of idiots for making false allegation.

 

1981 - 1990

American Terrorism of the Nicaraguan People

 

Estimated civilian deaths: over 13,000 people

 

Following the fall of the Somoza regime, which had been backed for decades by the U.S., the CIA formed and armed the covert army known as the "Contras" from the remains of Somoza's National Guard. Assisted by covert U.S. air power, this proxy army inflicted considerable death and destruction across the Nicaraguan countryside.

When the Sandinistas overthrew the Somoza dictatorship in 1978, it was clear to Washington that they might well be that long-dreaded beast – "another Cuba." Under President Carter, attempts to sabotage the revolution took diplomatic and economic forms. Under Reagan, violence was the method of choice. For eight terribly long years, the people of Nicaragua were under attack by Washington's proxy army, the Contras, formed from Somoza's vicious National Guard and other supporters of the dictator.

It was all-out war, aiming to destroy the progressive social and economic programs of the government, burning down schools and medical clinics, raping, torturing, mining harbors, bombing and strafing. These were Ronald Reagan's "freedom fighters." There would be no revolution in Nicaragua.

 

From a talk by John Stockwell, 13-year veteran of the CIA and former U.S. Marine Corps major:

 

"Systematically, the Contras have been assassinating religious workers, teachers, health workers, elected officials, government administrators. Remember the 'Assassination Manual' that surfaced in 1984? It caused such a stir that President Reagan had to address it himself in the presidential debates with Walter Mondale. They use terror to traumatize society so that it cannot function.

"I don't mean to abuse you with verbal violence, but you have to understand what your Government and its agents are doing.

"They go into villages. They haul out families. With the children forced to watch, they castrate the father. They peel the skin off his face. They put a grenade in his mouth, and pull the pin. With the children forced to watch, they gang-rape the mother, and slash her breasts off. And sometimes, for variety, they make the parents watch while they do these things to the children.

"This is nobody's propaganda!

"There have been over a hundred thousand American "Witnesses for Peace" who've gone down there, and they have filmed and photographed and witnessed these atrocities immediately after they've happened, and documented thirteen thousand people killed this way – mostly women and children.

"These are the activities done by the Contras. The Contras are the people President Reagan called 'freedom fighters.' He said: 'They are the moral equivalent of our founding fathers.'"

 

Panama, another murderious dictator.

Please do some researches about CIA's roles in South America. I don't want to waste my time on your ignorance.

 

I can go on and on and on. Plez, Plez do you home work my bro before you rant on about stuff you have NO IDEA ABOUT!

Yes you Slay can go on and on to show how stupid you are.

 

Thank and God Bless.

Does God bless liars and slanderers like you Slay who support the American genocide of innocent and defenseless people?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok ######, you need to stop believing in everything you read on the internet. Were you there?? Ill tell you what!! My girlfriend left El Savador when she was 5 years old. She hid in a basement for 3 months waiting for her father to come back. Watched the El Salavdorian Gov kick out her friends family and when they didnt want to go! Shot them dead. Dad, mom and two twin baby girls. At that point her mom got tierd of waiting for her dad and left to where? The USA. The only way they were able to come back was when we helped. Thats what she ment by your a ediot. My great uncle is Field Marshel Erwin Rommel "The Desert Fox". I read all about WWII and WWI. My Uncle faught in Vetnam and my grand father faught in WWII and Korea. In War, people that are not involed do die. That is why War is hellish. I know, I faught in Iraq. I have a best friend that I right to who lives in Iraq and he is Sunni. I love him and would lay my life on the line for him. This is what it is like to be an American. I dont hate anyone!!! When I went to Iraq. All I wanted to do was help people. Oh and by the way. Who else was in the Horn of Africa with the US? Pakistan!! Just dont believe everything you read online. America is not a bad counrty. Now Bush may be an ediot but thats not here nor there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok ######, you need to stop believing in everything you read on the internet.

 

I am an educated man. Would the US media expose all the crimes of the US regime and its US forces?

 

Ill tell you what!! My girlfriend left El Savador when she was 5 years old. She hid in a basement for 3 months waiting for her father to come back. Watched the El Salavdorian Gov kick out her friends family and when they didnt want to go! Shot them dead. Dad, mom and two twin baby girls. At that point her mom got tierd of waiting for her dad and left to where? The USA. The only way they were able to come back was when we helped. Thats what she ment by your a ediot.

 

Death Squads in El Salvador:

A Pattern of U.S. Complicity

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetthirdworldtraveler(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/US_ThirdWorld/deathsquads_ElSal.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetthirdworldtraveler(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/US_Third...uads_ElSal.html[/url]

 

by David Kirsch

Covert Action Quarterly, Summer 1990

 

In 1963, the U.S. government sent 10 Special Forces personnel to El Salvador to help General Jose Alberto Medrano set up the Organizacion Democratica Nacionalista (ORDEN)-the first paramilitary death squad in that country. These Green Berets assisted in the organization and indoctrination of rural "civic" squads which gathered intelligence and carried out political assassinations in coordination with the Salvadoran military.

 

Now, there is compelling evidence to show that for over 30 years, members of the U.S. military and the CIA have helped organize, train, and fund death squad activity in El Salvador.

 

In the last eight years, six Salvadoran military deserters have publicly acknowledged their participation in the death squads. Their stories are notable because they not only confirm suspicions that the death squads are made up of members of the Salvadoran military, but also because each one implicates U.S. personnel in death squad activity.

The term "death squad" while appropriately vivid, can be misleading because it obscures their fundamental identity. Evidence shows that "death squads" are primarily military or paramilitary units carrying out political assassinations and intimidation as part of the Salvadoran government's counterinsurgency strategy. Civilian death squads do exist but have often been comprised of off-duty soldiers financed by wealthy Salvadoran businessmen.

 

It is important to point out that the use of death squads has been a strategy of U.S. counterinsurgency doctrine. For example, the CIA's "Phoenix Program" was responsible for the "neutralization" of over 40,000 Vietnamese suspected of working with the National Liberation Front.

 

Part of the U.S. counterinsurgency program was run from the Office of Public Safety (OPS). OPS was part of U.S. AID, and worked with the Defense Department and the CIA to modernize and centralize the repressive capabilities of client state police forces, including those in El Salvador. In 1974 Congress ordered the discontinuation of OPS.

In spite of the official suspension of police assistance between 1974 and 1985, CIA and other U.S . officials worked with Salvadoran security forces throughout the restricted period to centralize and modernize surveillance, to continue training, and to fund key players in the death squad network.

 

Death Squad Members, Testimony

 

Cesar Vielman Joya Martinez, a soldier in the First Infantry Brigade's Department 2 (Intelligence), is the most recent Salvadoran to admit his involvement in death squad activity. At a November 1, 1989 press conference Joya Martinez stated that certain military units in Department 2 carried out "heavy interrogation" (a euphemism for torture) after which the victims were killed. The job of his unit was to execute people by strangulation, slitting their throats, or injecting them with poison. He admitted killing eight people and participating in many more executions. He stated that the Brigade Commander had sent written orders to carry out the killings and that the use of bullets was forbidden because they might be traced to the military.

 

Joya Martinez also claims that one of the U.S. advisers working with the First Brigade sat at a desk next to his and received "all the reports from our agents on clandestine captures, interrogations...but we did not provide them with reports on the executions. They did not want to hear of the actual killings." U.S. advisers authorized expenses for such extras as black glass on squad vans to allow executions to take place unobserved; provided $4,000 for the monthly budget; and conducted classes in recruiting informants and conducting intelligence reconnaissance.

Another Salvadoran soldier, Ricardo Castro, is the first officer to come forward with information about death squad activity. Castro graduated from West Point in 1973 and was a company commander in the Salvadoran Army. He translated for several U.S. advisers who taught, among other subjects, interrogation techniques. Castro claims that one U.S. instructor worked out of the Sheraton Hotel (taken over briefly during the November 1989 FMLN offensive) and emphasized psychological techniques. Castro recalled a class where Salvadoran soldiers asked the adviser about an impasse in their torture sessions:

 

He was obviously against torture a lot of the time. He favored selective torture.... When they learned some thing in class, they might go back to their fort that night and practice.... I remember very distinctly some students talking about the fact that people were conking out on them...as they were administering electric shock. 'We keep giving him the electric shock, and he just doesn't respond. What can we do?'.... The American gave a broad smile and said, 'You've got to surprise him. We know this from experience. Give him a jolt. Do something that will just completely amaze him, and that should bring him out of it."

 

Castro revealed that he held monthly briefings with then deputy CIA chief of station in El Salvador Frederic Brugger who had recruited him for intelligence work after meeting at an interrogation class. Castro also claimed to have knowledge of the perpetration of large massacres of civilians by Army Department 5.

 

In December 1981, he met in Morazan Province with one of the officers that the U.S. instructor had advised. "They had two towns of about 300 people each, and they were interrogating them to see what they knew. Since I...knew something about interrogations, he said he might want me to help. The Major told me that after the interrogation, they were going to kill them all." Castro was, however, reassigned and did not participate. Later, his pro-government mother told him, "You know, son, these guerrillas, they invent the wildest lies. They say that in December, 600 civilians were killed in Morazan." "Oh, ####, I was hoping I'd been dreaming it," he thought. "I later found out, they did go in and kill them after all."

 

 

My great uncle is Field Marshel Erwin Rommel "The Desert Fox". I read all about WWII and WWI.

My Uncle faught in Vetnam and my grand father faught in WWII and Korea. In War, people that are not involed do die. That is why War is hellish.

I will not discuss my military background with you.

 

I know, I faught in Iraq.

So you have attacked, invaded and occupied Iraq illegally and terrorized innocent and defenseless Iraqi people just like your German great uncle who invaded North Africa and France and and Yankee Uncle and grand father who invaded Vietnam and Korea.

 

I have a best friend that I right to who lives in Iraq and he is Sunni. I love him and would lay my life on the line for him.

So this Iraqi traitor is your best friend. Do you trust a traitor who betrays his own country?

 

This is what it is like to be an American.

A US propaganda.

 

I dont hate anyone!!! When I went to Iraq. All I wanted to do was help people.

 

Yeah by attacking and destroying civilian targets and terrorizing innocent and defenseless Iraqi people in Iraq. If you really wanted to help Iraqi people, you should be an active conscientious objector instead of joining the US forces and terrorizing innocent Iraqi and Afghan people.

 

America is not a bad counrty.

 

How bad is it? The US crime statistics proves that USA is a dangerous country to live in. The US regime also imprisons US students etc who oppose the Vietnam War and the illegal war on Iraq etc so there is no freedom in USA. The US regime has robbed you of your FREEDOM by introducing the Patriot Acts.

 

Now Bush may be an ediot

 

Bush is an idiotic bigot.

Edited by wiseguy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is strange is that success in this war is measured by the lack of American and Iraqi domestic casualties

 

so if Americans were to start a civil war, it would increase the death toll, thus resulting in what the media (who controls the perception of Iraq) would consider a loss

 

So there is no reason to try and create a civil war. In fact, when CNN started to call the conflict in Iraq a 'civil war' the Bush administration resisted, understanding that more war and especially a war between Iraqi domestics was undesirable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What is strange is that success in this war is measured by the lack of American and Iraqi domestic casualties

 

The number of American and Iraqi domestic casualties is increasing steadily so the US regime is not successful in the illegal American occupation of Iraq. The illegal American occupation of Iraq is being resisted by Iraqi freedom fighters who try to liberate Iraq from the American Imperialism.

 

so if Americans were to start a civil war, it would increase the death toll, thus resulting in what the media (who controls the perception of Iraq) would consider a loss

 

The illegal US invasion and occupation of Iraq have caused the deaths of millions of innocent and defenseless Iraqi and the US Armed forces did not and do not hesitate to attack and destroy civilian targets and massacre Iraqi babies, children, women etc by blaming the non-existent Al Qaeda for the war crimes committed by the US forces so the US regime will not hesitate to start a civil war in Iraq to ensure that the US regime has a reason to occupy Iraq for a long long time enough to enable the Zionist capitalists to steal the Iraqi oil.

 

So there is no reason to try and create a civil war. In fact, when CNN started to call the conflict in Iraq a 'civil war' the Bush administration resisted, understanding that more war and especially a war between Iraqi domestics was undesirable.

 

The US regime has started civil wars in foreign countries and support the US proxies so that the US regime may control and manipulate the foreign countries. For example:Nicaragua

 

Nicaragua has seen many interventions by the United States. It has also experienced long military dictatorships, the longest one being the rule of the Somoza family for much of the 20th century. The Somoza family came to power as part of a US-engineered pact in 1927 that stipulated the formation of the National Guard (Guardia Nacional) that was trained by the U.S. Marines and commanded by General Anastasio Somoza García and it was responsible for maintaining order in the country. In 1934 high-ranking officers led by Somoza met and agreed to the assassination of Sandino. Somoza then deposed Sacasa with the support of factions of both Liberals and Conservatives, and in a rigged election he became president on Jan. 1, 1937.

 

Somoza (known as Tacho) revised the constitution to facilitate the consolidation of power into his own hands and ruled the country for the next two decades, either as president or as the power behind puppet presidents. Export activities grew from the 1930s onward. However, the Somoza family and their associates, rather than the Nicaraguan people as a whole, were the main beneficiaries of the country's income.

 

Following an essentially uncontested election in 1963, two puppet presidents, René Schick Gutiérrez and, upon his death in 1966, Lorenzo Guerrero Gutiérrez, held office with the support of the Somozas. Although the economy grew, mass poverty remained unchanged. Luis Somoza died early in 1967. Months later his brother Anastasio Somoza Debayle (“Tachito”) won yet another rigged presidential election against a token opponent, Fernando Agüero Rocha.

 

In 1961, a young student, Carlos Fonseca, turned back to the historical figure of Sandino, and along with 2 others founded the Sandinista National Liberation Front (FSLN). The FSLN was a tiny party throughout most of the 1960s, but Somoza's utter hatred of it and his heavy-handed treatment of anyone he suspected to be a Sandinista sympathizer gave many ordinary Nicaraguans the idea that the Sandinistas were much stronger.

 

After the 1972 earthquake and Somoza's brazen corruption, mishandling of relief, and refusal to rebuild Managua, the ranks of the Sandinistas were flooded with young disaffected Nicaraguans who no longer had anything to lose. These economic problems propelled the Sandinistas in their struggle against Somoza by leading many middle- and upper-class Nicaraguans to see the Sandinistas as the only hope for removing the brutal Somoza regime.

 

The Sandinistas, supported by much of the populace, elements of the Catholic Church, and regional and international governments, took power in July of 1979. Somoza fled the country and eventually ended up in Paraguay, where he was assassinated in September 1980, allegedly by members of the Argentinian Revolutionary Workers Party. The Sandinistas inherited a country in ruins with a debt of U.S.$1.6 billion dollars, an estimated 50,000 war dead, 600,000 homeless, and a devastated economic infrastructure.

 

Upon assuming office in 1981, U.S. President Ronald Reagan and his administration authorized the CIA to begin financing, arming and training rebels, some of whom were the remnants of Somoza's National Guard, as anti-Sandinista guerrillas that were branded "counter-revolutionary" by leftists (contrarrevolucionarios in Spanish). This was shortened to Contras, a label the anti-Communist forces chose to embrace. Eden Pastora and many of the indigenous guerrilla forces, who were not associated with the "Somozistas," also resisted the Sandinistas. The Contras operated out of camps in the neighboring countries of Honduras to the north and Costa Rica to the south. As was typical in guerrilla warfare, they were engaged in a campaign of economic sabotage in an attempt to combat the Sandinista government and disrupted shipping by planting underwater mines in Nicaragua's Corinto harbour, an action condemned by the World Court as illegal. The U.S. also sought to place economic pressure on the Sandinistas, and the Reagan administration imposed a full trade embargo.

 

U.S. support for this Nicaraguan insurgency continued in spite of the fact that impartial observers from international groupings such as the European Union, religious groups sent to monitor the election and observers from democratic nations such as Canada and the Republic of Ireland concluded that the Nicaraguan general elections of 1984 were completely free and fair. The Reagan administration disputed these results however, despite the fact that the government of the United States never had any observers in Nicaragua at the time.

 

Therefore, it is not a surprise to know that the US regime tries to start a civil war in Iraq because the US regime had started civil wars in other foreign countries such as Nicaragua to ensure that the countries would fall into the American hands through their proxies and puppets.

 

The US regime knows that it would not be able to fight and defeat Muslims in Iraq if Shia cooperate with Sunni so the US regime use dirty strategies to pit Shia against Sunni to weaken both the Shia and Sunni. In other word, the US regime is using 'divide and rule' strategy to pit Muslims against Muslims.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The US regime has started civil wars in foreign countries and support the US proxies so that the US regime may control and manipulate the foreign countries. For example:Nicaragua (explanation follows)

I am glad to hear a Sadinista reference from you, it is an indication that you have researched your American foreign policy. I'm not going to try and reeducate you, because you've got most of it right, but I want to give you a broad scenario that our foreign policy was based off of in the last 60 years so that your facts can have some context.

 

You understand how during the Cold War, the majority of the world was caught between the fighting of a capitalist, relatively benign power, and a communist tyrannical authority. Communists would make constant gains as governments friendly to America were overthrown in favor of communist regimes with ties to Russia. Communism was growing, and with their obvious intentions of 'curing' the world of capitalism we knew that it was only a matter of time before they would attempt to start a war they could win. Enter the Truman doctrine, and the Marshall plan, which set precedence for the support of political structures whose only merit was friendliness to the West. Because we needed allies in a world that was being overrun by our enemies, we made some friends we otherwise wouldn't have. Have you ever heard the phrase "the lesser of two evils?" That is what the contras were, or the Mujahadeen, whom we also supported.

 

In a world where the United States exists unchallenged I would never condone such policies, however in the Cold War, America came very close to being defeated by a powerful enemy, and I think you can understand why America attempted to gain all the help possible, though you can see today the negative impact of some of the moral choices that were made.

 

On a second related topic, you have to understand how a civil war helped the American cause in the Nicaraguan situation. I do not dispute that precedent has determined that Americans are willing to split our enemies to help our friends, however this policy worked in Nicaragua because the Communist government was in power, and by keeping them occupied and harassed, we were preventing the empowering of a communist regime and the spread of communism to other Latin American countries (domino effect).

Therefore, it is not a surprise to know that the US regime tries to start a civil war in Iraq because the US regime had started civil wars in other foreign countries such as Nicaragua to ensure that the countries would fall into the American hands through their proxies and puppets.

You have offered precedence, but not cause. I do not doubt that if it were in the best interest of the United States during the Cold War (and perhaps now, depending on how diplomatically nihilistic those in charge are) we would use the tactic of supporting an insurgency that holds our values over a government that does not. However even assuming America is fully willing to do so, how does it serve the American cause in the Iraq war to start a civil conflict?

 

The American people were promised a cheap war that was to last months, maybe a full year. We were to go in, take Saddam prisoner, change the government to allow for a pro-Western government to be elected (because we were under the impression that the people of Iraq supported the American cause).

 

What we got was an entrenched war lasting years that has killed thousands of our soldiers and thrown our country trillions of dollars into debt. What's more, the populace we thought we would be helping out has rejected us, either due to the fact that we behaved terribly in the opening weeks of the war, or the fact that we cannot maintain an infrastructure strong enough to uphold their economy and daily life. My suspicion is that it is both.

 

Success for us would be for Iraq to be peaceful, to be a third country in the Middle East to look favorably on the United States, and even though our government (surprisingly) does not support it, we would be glad to have the OPEC cartel broken so that we can deal directly with an oil supplier for cheaper fuel, or at least at this stage, to help finance the reconstruction movement.

 

The worst thing that can possibly happen would be more violence, or a demonstration that Iraq is not going to be peaceful. A civil war is the worst thing for American goals, considering that our military is entrenched in an occupying country. We want peace, we want prosperity, and we want an ally who is democratic, Islamic, and pro-West. Do you see my point? Why would we start fights if it is against our goals, even if you do not think our goals are admirable.

The US regime knows that it would not be able to fight and defeat Muslims in Iraq if Shia cooperate with Sunni so the US regime use dirty strategies to pit Shia against Sunni to weaken both the Shia and Sunni. In other word, the US regime is using 'divide and rule' strategy to pit Muslims against Muslims.

If the Bush administration wanted to, he could order a nuclear strike that would turn the country into glass. There is no need to divide what you can already conquer, the reason that we do not take Iraq in this manner is because it is morally wrong, and whether or not you believe it, we are doing what we can to win the hearts and minds of the local populace enough that we can help create a country that is peaceful and democratic. Splitting Islam does not serve this cause.

 

There are certainly dirty tricks in the American repertoire, and I am not naive enough to assume that we would hold back if doing something I would think atrocious (such as splitting Shia and Sunni) if the American government thought it would help our cause. What I'm trying to show here is the fact that it doesn't help our cause to create more war, that we want the Shia and the Sunni to work together towards Democracy, rather than towards war fighting each other.

 

Also for the record I use the "I" and "We" pronouns to represent American policy in this situation, not my personal assessment, which differs greatly from American policy in several areas. Also I want to reiterate that I am not trying to change your mind, just trying to demonstrate what the American government is trying to do, so that you can judge on your own logic whether or not you think a civil war would further this cause.

Edited by seacow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Perhaps, seacow, we should say that US actions during the Cold War were understandable if not entirely condonable.

precisely

or perhaps even condonable if we understand the alternative options presented

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do you want to condone the war crimes committed by the US regime during the Cold War? The US regime had intervened in the affairs of many countries all over the world and the US interventions caused countless destructions, deaths and sufferings in Korea, Vitenam, Camodia, Laos, Indonesia, Afghanistan, Libya, Nicaragua, other South American countries etc. The US regime has no right to intervene in the affairs of other sovereign countries! If you think foreigners have no right to intervene in the affairs of USA then the US regime has no right to intervene in other countries! The US regime is guilty of war crimes for massacrings millions of innocent and defenseless civilians in foreign countries! The US regime has no rights to terrorize nor massacre innocent and defenseless civilians in foreign countries. Why do you support the US regime that has terrorized numerous countries all over the world, massacred millions of innocent and defenseless civilians and attacked and destroyed civilian targets? Why do you condone the US regime that uses WMDs to destroy foreign countries?

 

I don't understand why some people support the tyrannical US regime and ignore the war crimes committed by the brutal regime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You understand how during the Cold War, the majority of the world was caught between the fighting of a capitalist, relatively benign power, and a communist tyrannical authority.

 

Why did/do the capitalists ignore the starvation and poverty in Africa, India and other third word countries etc if the capitalists are really benign?

 

Why do you deny history? History tells us how the tyrannical US regime and its allies intervene in the affairs of other countries. History tells us how CIA agents assassinate the leaders of foreign governments and overthrow the elected foreign governments because the governments do not support the US regime. History tells us how the tyrannical US regime force foreigners to fight and kill their fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, relatives and friends during the Korean War, Vitenam War etc.

 

Communists would make constant gains as governments friendly to America were overthrown in favor of communist regimes with ties to Russia.

 

Why don't you tell us how CIA etc overthrow governments friendly to Russia and neutral governments? Why don't you tell us how the US regime assassinate its own puppets so that the US regime can control and manipulate other countries?

 

Communism was growing, and with their obvious intentions of 'curing' the world of capitalism we knew that it was only a matter of time before they would attempt to start a war they could win. Enter the Truman doctrine, and the Marshall plan, which set precedence for the support of political structures whose only merit was friendliness to the West. Because we needed allies in a world that was being overrun by our enemies, we made some friends we otherwise wouldn't have.

 

This is another capitalist and Western propaganda aka the domino theory that was a mid-20th century foreign policy theory, promoted by the government of the United States, that speculated that if one land in a region came under the influence of communism, then the surrounding countries would follow in a domino effect. The domino effect suggests that some change, small in itself, will cause a similar change nearby, which then will cause another similar change, and so on in linear sequence, by analogy to a falling row of dominoes standing on end. The domino theory was used by successive United States administrations during the Cold War to justify American intervention around the world.

 

Referring to communism in Indochina, Eisenhower vocalized the theory during an April 7, 1954 news conference:

 

“ Finally, you have broader considerations that might follow what you would call the "falling domino" principle. You have a row of dominoes set up, you knock over the first one, and what will happen to the last one is the certainty that it will go over very quickly. So you could have a beginning of a disintegration that would have the most profound influences. Source: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Domino_Theory"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Domino_Theory[/url]

 

The fact is the failure of communism to take hold in Thailand, Indonesia, and other large Southeast Asian countries after the end of the Vietnam War proves that capitalist and Western propaganda aka the domino theory is false. After the Vietnamese had defeated the tyrannical US regime, it did not attack nor invade Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, and other large Southeast Asian countries. Vietnam had attacked and occupied Cambodia for few years to eliminate the tyrannical Khmer Rouge that had massacred millions of innocent Cambodian people and attacked Vietnam and Vietnamese people. And we know that it was the tyrannical US regime that helped the tyrannical Khmer Rouge to overthrow the Cambodian government by bombing Cambodia, invading parts of Cambodia and killing innocent Camdian people that caused Cambodian people to hate the Cambodian government that served the interest of the tyrannical US regime.

 

Have you ever heard the phrase "the lesser of two evils?" That is what the contras were, or the Mujahadeen, whom we also supported.

 

The two evils were the Russia regime and the US regime that have caused countless deaths, sufferings and destructions in foreign countries. And we know that the US regime intervened in the affairs of Afghanistan by sending Muslim fighters who were supported and financed by the US regime to Afghanistan to overthrow the Afghan government that had a good relationship with Russia hoping to lure Russians into Afghanistan and destroy the Russian forces in Afghanistan to weaken the Soviet Union. And the Russians took the bait and defeated in Afghanistan and finally the Soviet Union was abolished.

 

In a world where the United States exists unchallenged I would never condone such policies, however in the Cold War, America came very close to being defeated by a powerful enemy, and I think you can understand why America attempted to gain all the help possible, though you can see today the negative impact of some of the moral choices that were made.

 

When did America come very close to being defeated by a powerful enemy? Some US generals wanted to wage war against Russians after the Second World War! The allegation was used as a propaganda scare tactic to try to justify unwarranted intervention policies of the US regime and its allies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On a second related topic, you have to understand how a civil war helped the American cause in the Nicaraguan situation. I do not dispute that precedent has determined that Americans are willing to split our enemies to help our friends, however this policy worked in Nicaragua because the Communist government was in power, and by keeping them occupied and harassed, we were preventing the empowering of a communist regime and the spread of communism to other Latin American countries (domino effect).

 

The domino effect was used as a propaganda scare tactic to try to justify unwarranted intervention policies of the US regime and its allies. Nicaragua did not and does not become a communist country. It respects democracy! Nicaragua officially the Republic of Nicaragua is a representative democratic republic.

 

However even assuming America is fully willing to do so, how does it serve the American cause in the Iraq war to start a civil conflict?

The illegal US invasion and occupation of Iraq and its 'divide & rule' policy have caused civil conflicts in Iraq.

 

The American people were promised a cheap war that was to last months, maybe a full year. We were to go in, take Saddam prisoner, change the government to allow for a pro-Western government to be elected (because we were under the impression that the people of Iraq supported the American cause).

 

If you believe that the US regime has its rights to go in, take Saddam prisoner, change the government to allow for a pro-Western government to be elected, then Russia, China etc have their right to invade and occupy USA and take Bush prisoner and change the government to allow for a pro-Russia or pro-China government to be elected.

 

Most of Iraqi people hate the US regime and the US forces for attacking, invading, occupying, and plundering terrorizing Iraq and terrorizing and massacring innocent Iraqi people. If the US regime leave Iraq, the US puppet regime in Iraq will fall within few weeks!

 

What we got was an entrenched war lasting years that has killed thousands of our soldiers and thrown our country trillions of dollars into debt. What's more, the populace we thought we would be helping out has rejected us, either due to the fact that we behaved terribly in the opening weeks of the war, or the fact that we cannot maintain an infrastructure strong enough to uphold their economy and daily life. My suspicion is that it is both.

 

The US regime and its allies had imposed economy embargoes and food sanctions on Iraq that caused the deaths of millions of Iraqi babies, children etc. The US regime also attacks and destroys civilian targets in Iraq and kills innocent civilians in the process. The US forces rape, torture, terrorize or/and massacre innocent Iraqi people. Do you Americans expect Iraqi people to greet, hug and kiss you Americans and give you a bouquet of flowers after you have terrorized and murdered their fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, relatives, neigbours, friends etc? The tyrannical US regime and its brutal US forces are worse than the Nazi and Fascists!

 

Success for us would be for Iraq to be peaceful, to be a third country in the Middle East to look favorably on the United States, and even though our government (surprisingly) does not support it, we would be glad to have the OPEC cartel broken so that we can deal directly with an oil supplier for cheaper fuel, or at least at this stage, to help finance the reconstruction movement.

 

Do you call it a success when Iraq become a quagmire for the US regime and its soldiers? More Americans are returning to USA in body bags!

 

The worst thing that can possibly happen would be more violence, or a demonstration that Iraq is not going to be peaceful.

 

The US regime is responsible for the violence in Iraq by invading and occupying Iraq illegally.

 

A civil war is the worst thing for American goals, considering that our military is entrenched in an occupying country. We want peace, we want prosperity, and we want an ally who is democratic, Islamic, and pro-West. Do you see my point? Why would we start fights if it is against our goals, even if you do not think our goals are admirable.

The US regime need a civil war as a good reason to occupy Iraq for a long time while weakening Sunni and Shia through the US-sponsored civil wars in Iraq.

 

If the Bush administration wanted to, he could order a nuclear strike that would turn the country into glass.

And the nuclear fallouts would soon reach USA and Europe and kill Americans, Europeans and animals and pollute the rivers, farmes, ranches etc. Do you think that China and Russia would allow the US regime to use the nuclear weapons against other countries?

 

There is no need to divide what you can already conquer, the reason that we do not take Iraq in this manner is because it is morally wrong, and whether or not you believe it, we are doing what we can to win the hearts and minds of the local populace enough that we can help create a country that is peaceful and democratic. Splitting Islam does not serve this cause.

 

Do you think that the US regime would allow Shia and Sunni to unite and grow strong enough to defeat the US forces that are terrorizing Iraqi people in Iraq and force the Zionist capitalists, who are busy stealing Iraqi oil, to leave Iraq for good? Do you that the Zionist capitalists would be glad to leave the Iraqi oil wells?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why do you want to condone the war crimes committed by the US regime during the Cold War? The US regime had intervened in the affairs of many countries all over the world and the US interventions caused countless destructions, deaths and sufferings in Korea, Vitenam, Camodia, Laos, Indonesia, Afghanistan, Libya, Nicaragua, other South American countries etc. The US regime has no right to intervene in the affairs of other sovereign countries! If you think foreigners have no right to intervene in the affairs of USA then the US regime has no right to intervene in other countries! The US regime is guilty of war crimes for massacrings millions of innocent and defenseless civilians in foreign countries! The US regime has no rights to terrorize nor massacre innocent and defenseless civilians in foreign countries. Why do you support the US regime that has terrorized numerous countries all over the world, massacred millions of innocent and defenseless civilians and attacked and destroyed civilian targets? Why do you condone the US regime that uses WMDs to destroy foreign countries?

 

I don't understand why some people support the tyrannical US regime and ignore the war crimes committed by the brutal regime.

It wasn't a choice between the intervention of American forces with Western intentions, and no intervention at all. It was a question of whether or not Americans would intervene or Soviets, and in many cases both did. Whatever side espoused the ideology of the superpower in question gained a great deal of political and logistical support.

 

I would prefer an isolationist strategy as well, as would the majority of Americans I believe. However, especially in a zero sum cold war scenario we cannot abstain on moral grounds only to be overrun by the greater evil. Do you see what I mean?

Why do you deny history? History tells us how the tyrannical US regime and its allies intervene in the affairs of other countries. History tells us how CIA agents assassinate the leaders of foreign governments and overthrow the elected foreign governments because the governments do not support the US regime. History tells us how the tyrannical US regime force foreigners to fight and kill their fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, relatives and friends during the Korean War, Vitenam War etc.

I never denied this. You are missing my point, which is to show the bigger picture which gives the relatively atrocious behavior of the CIA context and if you are a cynic, validity. Which you would prefer to choose if you were forced, the Russian Soviet government, or an American supported government? In that time in history, there was no third option.

This is another capitalist and Western propaganda aka the domino theory that was a mid-20th century foreign policy theory, promoted by the government of the United States, that speculated that if one land in a region came under the influence of communism, then the surrounding countries would follow in a domino effect. The domino effect suggests that some change, small in itself, will cause a similar change nearby, which then will cause another similar change, and so on in linear sequence, by analogy to a falling row of dominoes standing on end. The domino theory was used by successive United States administrations during the Cold War to justify American intervention around the world.

 

Referring to communism in Indochina, Eisenhower vocalized the theory during an April 7, 1954 news conference:

 

“ Finally, you have broader considerations that might follow what you would call the "falling domino" principle. You have a row of dominoes set up, you knock over the first one, and what will happen to the last one is the certainty that it will go over very quickly. So you could have a beginning of a disintegration that would have the most profound influences.

The bolded portion is where you have quoted wikipedia word for word. source: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Domino_Theory"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Domino_Theory[/url]

You should cite your sources, because to avoid doing so is not only plagiarism, but a violation of rule 19.

 

I am not sure now which things you said are your words, and which are words of other articles whose sources you do not cite. Until I can discern the difference I am going to suspend our discussion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It wasn't a choice between the intervention of American forces with Western intentions, and no intervention at all. It was a question of whether or not Americans would intervene or Soviets, and in many cases both did. Whatever side espoused the ideology of the superpower in question gained a great deal of political and logistical support.

 

The governments of South Vietnam, Iran, Cambodia etc, that had espoused the ideology of the US regime, suppressed and terrorized their citizens that caused their citizens to overthrow the governments because they hated the American imperialism and the US puppets and proxies who were serving the US interests in their countries. We find many of the countries, that had espoused the ideology of the US regime, destroyed by wars, rebellions etc.

 

I would prefer an isolationist strategy as well, as would the majority of Americans I believe. However, especially in a zero sum cold war scenario we cannot abstain on moral grounds only to be overrun by the greater evil. Do you see what I mean?

USA was not and is not overrun by other foreign powers. On the contrary, the US regime had overrun parts of Mexico and seized Texas by force.

 

I never denied this. You are missing my point, which is to show the bigger picture which gives the relatively atrocious behavior of the CIA context and if you are a cynic, validity. Which you would prefer to choose if you were forced, the Russian Soviet government, or an American supported government? In that time in history, there was no third option.

 

It is good to be a neutral country so that the country will not be involved in the conflicts between/among the superpowers. The Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) is an international organization of states considering themselves not formally aligned with or against any major power bloc. However, we see that the US regime is supporting the israeli regime of terror that is terrorizing Arab countries and Palestine so the Arab countries have no choice but to ask Russians to help them to fight the israeli regime of terror so that israel would not overrun Arab countries.

 

I am not sure now which things you said are your words, and which are words of other articles whose sources you do not cite. Until I can discern the difference I am going to suspend our discussion.

 

Excuses are the tools with which persons with no purpose in view build for themselves great monuments of nothing. ~Steven Grayhm

 

Any excuse will serve a tyrant. ~Aesop

 

If you don't want to do something, one excuse is as good as another. ~Yiddish Proverb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thank you for editing in your source for your words. Our discussion may continue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why did/do the capitalists ignore the starvation and poverty in Africa, India and other third word countries etc if the capitalists are really benign?

 

We don't.

 

To the WPF alone we have donated over 670 million dollars last year, making the United States its biggest supporter.

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetwfp(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/english/?ModuleID=137&Key=2505"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetwfp(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/english/?ModuleID=137&Key=2505[/url]

 

Charity in American has risen to 7% of GDP, making us world leaders in charitable giving

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetcharitynavigator(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.cfm?bay=content.view&cpid=656"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetcharitynavigator(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.cfm?...ew&cpid=656[/url]

The fact is the failure of communism to take hold in Thailand...

Even assuming your point (that it didn't happen) that does not disprove that the policy was motivated by an errant philosophy that was intrinsically good, or that the cause of the South Vietnamese was honorable enough to defend them.

 

The two evils were the Russia regime and the US regime that have caused countless deaths, sufferings and destructions in foreign countries.

Agreed, now which one is the lesser?

When did America come very close to being defeated by a powerful enemy? Some US generals wanted to wage war against Russians after the Second World War! The allegation was used as a propaganda scare tactic to try to justify unwarranted intervention policies of the US regime and its allies.

If the generals had been obeyed we could have invaded Russia before they reached nuclear equality. I used to be glad that the cold war ended peacefully, but then I spoke with a Russian who was angry that the Americans didn't free him from the despotic influence of Moscow sooner. Now I am not so sure.

The illegal US invasion and occupation of Iraq and its 'divide & rule' policy have caused civil conflicts in Iraq.

If you believe that the US regime has its rights to go in, take Saddam prisoner, change the government to allow for a pro-Western government to be elected, then Russia, China etc have their right to invade and occupy USA and take Bush prisoner and change the government to allow for a pro-Russia or pro-China government to be elected.

If we were ruled by a dictator who was exterminating his own populace, I would hope that they would invade our country.

Most of Iraqi people hate the US regime and the US forces for attacking ...

We got quite the parade when we first came in and knocked down Saddam's statue.

 

Do you call it a success when Iraq become a quagmire for the US regime and its soldiers? More Americans are returning to USA in body bags!

No, but that is my point. More violence is counterproductive in terms of an American victory, so why would we attempt to incite a civil war?

The US regime is responsible for the violence in Iraq by invading and occupying Iraq illegally.

All violence? You do not think that a great deal of it is caused by preconceived animus let loose by the American destruction of the current maintainer of rule of law? (saddam)

Are you from Iraq? Can you speak for its populace?

Genuine question because if either are true then you just became infinitely more interesting to me.

The US regime need a civil war as a good reason to occupy Iraq for a long time while weakening Sunni and Shia through the US-sponsored civil wars in Iraq.

We want to leave Iraq, believe me. The only question in American politics is whether we want to leave before the country is stable. What advantage do you think occupying the country does for us in a time of war?

Edited by seacow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And the nuclear fallouts would soon reach USA and Europe and kill Americans, Europeans and animals and pollute the rivers, farmes, ranches etc. Do you think that China and Russia would allow the US regime to use the nuclear weapons against other countries?

If this were such a problem, then we would not test nuclear weapons on our own soil. Fallout is not the primary reason as to why we do not nuke other countries.

 

Do you think that the US regime would allow Shia and Sunni to unite and grow strong enough to defeat the US forces that are terrorizing Iraqi people in Iraq and force the Zionist capitalists, who are busy stealing Iraqi oil, to leave Iraq for good? Do you that the Zionist capitalists would be glad to leave the Iraqi oil wells?

We are not facing a united front hostile to our occupation. Nor, are we currently making a profit off of that country. Thus we have no desire to stay from a financial standpoint, and no reason to incite war from a political one.

The governments of South Vietnam, Iran, Cambodia etc, that had espoused the ideology of the US regime, suppressed and terrorized their citizens that caused their citizens to overthrow the governments because they hated the American imperialism and the US puppets and proxies who were serving the US interests in their countries. We find many of the countries, that had espoused the ideology of the US regime, destroyed by wars, rebellions etc.

There was little to no American Imperialism present in Vietnam at the time, seeing as how it was a French colony.

USA was not and is not overrun by other foreign powers. On the contrary, the US regime had overrun parts of Mexico and seized Texas by force.

You are missing my point, which is we were threatened by foreign powers. In regards to your second statement, you are digging a little too far into the past to find material evident of American aggression. If you look carefully you will notice that Texas joined the United States, and the resulting war with Mexico ended in concessions of land. But this is so far in the past that it has very little relevance to foreign policy today.

It is good to be a neutral country so that the country will not be involved in the conflicts between/among the superpowers. The Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) is an international organization of states considering themselves not formally aligned with or against any major power bloc. However, we see that the US regime is supporting the israeli regime of terror that is terrorizing Arab countries and Palestine so the Arab countries have no choice but to ask Russians to help them to fight the israeli regime of terror so that israel would not overrun Arab countries.

This is good, we're digging deeper. In no way does the United States support an israeli expansionist policy.

Excuses are the tools with which persons with no purpose in view build for themselves great monuments of nothing. ~Steven Grayhm

 

Any excuse will serve a tyrant. ~Aesop

 

If you don't want to do something, one excuse is as good as another. ~Yiddish Proverb

How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg. ~Abraham Lincoln

 

my point is this, I am obviously no tyrant, it does no service to call me one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am very busy now so I will refute your allegations later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if you want to address only certain points that is fine as well. We're reaching 'critical mass' in regards to quote count.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We don't.

 

To the WPF alone we have donated over 670 million dollars last year, making the United States its biggest supporter.Charity in American has risen to 7% of GDP, making us world leaders in charitable giving

 

The Americans donated over 670 million dollars last year (in a year!). It is an irony that the US regime is spending $720 million a day or $500,000 a minute to violate the sovereignty of Iraq, destroy civilian targets in Iraq and terrorize innocent and defenseless Iraqi people. Between 1965 and 1973, the United States spent $120 billion on the Vietnam war. It seems to me that the US regime is willing to spend so much money on the destruction of sovereign countries, destruction of civilian targets and deaths of innocent civilians in foreign countries while ignoring millions of homeless Americans and 1 In 4 Homeless Americans Are Veterans. It seems to me that the US regime doesn't care about the welfare of Americans. All the US regime cares about is the well-being of israel and Zionists.

 

U.S. Financial Aid To israel: Figures, Facts, and Impact

Summary

 

Benefits to israel of U.S. Aid

Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)

 

Foreign Aid Grants and Loans

$74,157,600,000

 

Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)

$9,047,227,200

 

Interest to israel from Advanced Payments

$1,650,000,000

 

Grand Total

$84,854,827,200

 

Total Benefits per israeli

$14,630

 

Since 1992, the U.S. has offered israel an additional $2 billion annually in loan guarantees. Congressional researchers have disclosed that between 1974 and 1989, $16.4 billion in U.S. military loans were converted to grants and that this was the understanding from the beginning. Indeed, all past U.S. loans to israel have eventually been forgiven by Congress, which has undoubtedly helped israel's often-touted claim that they have never defaulted on a U.S. government loan. U.S. policy since 1984 has been that economic assistance to israel must equal or exceed israel's annual debt repayment to the United States. Unlike other countries, which receive aid in quarterly installments, aid to israel since 1982 has been given in a lump sum at the beginning of the fiscal year, leaving the U.S. government to borrow from future revenues. israel even lends some of this money back through U.S. treasury bills and collects the additional interest.

 

In addition, there is the more than $1.5 billion in private U.S. funds that go to israel annually in the form of $1 billion in private tax-deductible donations and $500 million in israeli bonds. The ability of Americans to make what amounts to tax-deductible contributions to a foreign government, made possible through a number of Jewish charities, does not exist with any other country. Nor do these figures include short- and long-term commercial loans from U.S. banks, which have been as high as $1 billion annually in recent years.

 

Total U.S. aid to israel is approximately one-third of the American foreign-aid budget, even though israel comprises just .001 percent of the world's population and already has one of the world's higher per capita incomes. Indeed, israel's GNP is higher than the combined GNP of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza. With a per capita income of about $14,000, israel ranks as the sixteenth wealthiest country in the world; israelis enjoy a higher per capita income than oil-rich Saudi Arabia and are only slightly less well-off than most Western European countries.

 

AID does not term economic aid to israel as development assistance, but instead uses the term "economic support funding." Given israel's relative prosperity, U.S. aid to israel is becoming increasingly controversial. In 1994, Yossi Beilen, deputy foreign minister of israel and a Knesset member, told the Women's International Zionist organization, "If our economic situation is better than in many of your countries, how can we go on asking for your charity?"

 

Source: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetwrmea(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/us_aid_to_israel/index.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetwrmea(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/us_aid_to_israel/index.htm[/url]

 

And the US money is being used by the israeli regime of terror to terrorize Palestine, destroy civilian targets in Palestine and massacre innocent Palestinian people and attack and invade Arab countries. In other word the US regime is committing sabotage against the Middle East by supporting and financing the israeli regime of terror.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetcharitynavigator(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.cfm?bay=content.view&cpid=656"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetcharitynavigator(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.cfm?...ew&cpid=656[/url]

 

Even assuming your point (that it didn't happen) that does not disprove that the policy was motivated by an errant philosophy that was intrinsically good, or that the cause of the South Vietnamese was honorable enough to defend them.

 

The American invasion of foreign countries has caused so many sufferings, deaths and destructions. For example, the US intervention in the affair of Vietnam caused the Vietnam War and the unnecessary deaths among the innocent civilians:

 

Vietnamese civilian dead: 2,000,000–5,100,000*

Cambodian civilian dead: ~700,000*

Laotian civilian dead: ~50,000*

Source: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Vietnam_War"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Vietnam_War[/url]

 

Agreed, now which one is the lesser?

 

The US regime, the israeli regime of terror and the Russian regime and their allies are the worst evil.

 

Note: I am busy now so I will answer the rest of your allegations soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The US regime, the israeli regime of terror and the Russian regime and their allies are the worst evil.

 

Note: I am busy now so I will answer the rest of your allegations soon.

I'll narrow this down further, to avoid tangential discussions that we're voyaging off into. Don't get me wrong, I love it, but I think that because both of us are busy guys we could use some focus.

 

Let's assume it's 1970 and you have a choice to throw your lot in with Moscow, or with Washington. You know that both countries use some nefarious tactics to attain their political ends. Which of the two super-powers (The United States or Russia) would you prefer to join, assuming they are your only options?

 

The point I'm trying to prove here is that in fighting communism, America had to reach some new lows in regards to political tactics. But in the combat of an even worse enemy maybe those atrocities were understandable, and now that we are not fighting an enemy that can defeat us, we can reform our country around higher standards in regard to civil rights.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why did the US regime and the Russian regime wage wars in foreign countries? They should wage wars in USA and Russia but they were afraid that wars might destroy their countries so they waged wars in foreign countries and they did not care if the foreign countries were destroyed and innocent people terrorized and massacred by the US and Russian regime and their allies.

 

After the Cold War, the US regime had defeated the USSR and Russia is too weak to resist the US imperialism so the US regime needs to find new weak opponents to demonstrate its superiority over the weak countries. And now we see the US regime and its US Armed Forces and their allies have invented lies and fairy tales as a pretext to attack Muslim countries and now they are attacking, invading, occupying and plundering Muslim countries such as Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan etc and terrorizing and massacring innocent Muslims.

 

Muslims who are defending the sovereignty and independence of their countries against the US-Zionist imperialism are being called Muslim terrorists by the US regime and the media. On the contrary, the West does not condemn the US Armed Forces that are behaving like the Nazi forces by attacking, invading, occupying and plundering Muslim countries such as Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan etc and terrorizing and massacring innocent Muslims.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×