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Princess Mujahada

Prostitution In Iraq

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Some people here are so out of touch with reality. These poor women aren't choosing prostitution as a career choice, they are doing what they are doing because they have to, for the sake of their children. Would you be able to do nothing but sit back and watch your children die in front of you?

 

I have a very vague recollection of an incident that took place in one of the Khalif's (i think it was Umar) reign which is relevant to this discussion. He encountered a prostitute but seeing that she was only engaging in the illicit trade out of necessity she wasn't punished.

Edited by strider

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Salaams peeps,

 

I wouldn't do it because doing so would cause hurt and pain against another human being. Prostitution, on the other hand, doesnt physically hurt anybody.

 

That's interesting. What you've done is made a judgement on which crime is serious enough to not do, thus allowing your children to die. You've decided that murder is out of the question even under neccessity whereas prostitution is not. Of course, prostitution doesn't hurt anybody so its okay to do under compulsion. What standard are you using when differentiating between crimes?

 

Peace

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Salaams peeps,

That's interesting. What you've done is made a judgement on which crime is serious enough to not do, thus allowing your children to die. You've decided that murder is out of the question even under neccessity whereas prostitution is not. Of course, prostitution doesn't hurt anybody so its okay to do under compulsion. What standard are you using when differentiating between crimes?

 

Peace

Even the Haram becomes Halal when you have to save lives. You can even eat a pig to stay alive, that's how sacred life is.

 

Choosing to murder or not in order to survive, i think, is more of a question of morals than whether it is permissible or not.

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Man i feel sorry for your children if you are lucky enough to have the joy of them in your life.

Peace

 

And I feel sorry for your women that they turn their backs on God and allow men to do despicable acts to their bodies. But then, to a non-believer like you, it's okay to barter away your hereafter for worldly gains, isn't it?

 

What would Allah do? Put some Money in there bank account? Send them free food? Come on so times you have just got to be real about things> So would you let your children stave to death while you wait for you answer from Allah?

 

And if He does none of the ridiculous things you've listed, is that any reason to say "oh well, I give up! Time to prostitute myself!"?

 

I wouldn't do it because doing so would cause hurt and pain against another human being. Prostitution, on the other hand, doesnt physically hurt anybody.

 

If the definition of "sin" was only that which harms other people, then prostitution would not be unlawful in the first place.

 

These women can choose to continue cleaning houses, or find options. There are ALWAYS options, these women are not at a level where they have hit rock bottom and are simply without choice. Instead, they discovered prostitution and are choosing not to look any further.

 

And by the way, they can be harming others besides themselves. Let's say that the men that they are having sex with are married men. Are they not also responsible for the hurt and heartbreak that the wife would feel to discover that her husband is having an affair? And what about the fact that one of the women in the article has sex while her children are in the room? Does that not scar these children? Does it not affect them negatively?

 

Even the Haram becomes Halal when you have to save lives. You can even eat a pig to stay alive, that's how sacred life is.

 

You are arriving at that conclusion based on the verdict for pork consumption.

 

Can we compare pork and prostitution and claim that they are both okay when the situations call for it? No, we cannot. There is no Hadith that says it's okay to prostitute oneself for food. This is a matter that none of us know the answer to, but as prophet Muhammad warned us, stay away from doubtful things.

 

Salam.

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And some people might be "out of touch with reality", but others are clearly ruled by emotion.

 

Salam.

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And some people might be "out of touch with reality", but others are clearly ruled by emotion.

 

Salam.

I guess it's easy for some characters like yourself to be so judgmental of others like these women in Iraq, simply because you aren't in their position and you aren't going through their painl. This is a question of life or death. Which one would you prefer for your children if in you found yourself in the position of one of these desperate women?

Edited by strider

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Both murder and prostitution are sins, but I would not kill another human being in order to procure money for food. That is a personal choice based on my own morality.

 

These women can choose to continue cleaning houses, or find options. There are ALWAYS options, these women are not at a level where they have hit rock bottom and are simply without choice. Instead, they discovered prostitution and are choosing not to look any further.

 

Obviously for those women, there ARE NO OTHER OPTIONS, or they wouldnt have prostituted themselves in the first place. The women interviewed are very clear on the fact that they have tried everything else, and still failed to provide enough for their children.

 

Salam

Edited by anthony19832005

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Hi all

 

And I feel sorry for your women that they turn their backs on God and allow men to do despicable acts to their bodies. But then, to a non-believer like you, it's okay to barter away your hereafter for worldly gains, isn't it?

 

Some women in the UK that are prostitutes could be believers, how do you know that "they" have turned there backs on God? do you know many prostitutes in the UK? Do Muslim womens husbands not allow there husband to do "despicable acts to their bodies." I seem to recall reading that Muslim women should always allow there husbands there desires because thats some thing women should provide for them. Strange but thats not the issue. Why say its ok to barter my hereafter? what makes you say im doing any bartering? As for my hereafter in my beliefs i will be peaceful in death as its the end. I will return to the earth to add my pieces back to nature in return for my life. If you were implying i would use prostitutes then you are very wrong. Western men MOSTLY have one partner at a time out of respect for them. Unlike some others.

 

why did you feel the need to attack so quickly my comments?

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I guess it's easy for some characters like yourself to be so judgmental of others like these women in Iraq

 

I don't make it a habit of trading insults with Muslims (believe me, I've more than my share of creativity), so please do not refer to me as a character.

 

These women most likely know that they are doing something unlawful. If I ever find myself in such a position as to resort to prostitution because my faith in Allah is too weak and I need a quick wordly solution for my problem, then I won't ever make excuses to justify my action.

 

Which one would you prefer for your children if in you found yourself in the position of one of these desperate women?

 

This isn't about personal preference. This is about awareness to the consequences of said personal preferences.

 

Obviously for those women, there ARE NO OTHER OPTIONS, or they wouldnt have prostituted themselves in the first place. The women interviewed are very clear on the fact that they have tried everything else, and still failed to provide enough for their children.

 

They DO have a choice. It's called cleaning houses. They're prostituting themselves because it's the EASIEST solution that they can see. But like I said, better to barter away your hereafter, right?

 

Salam.

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why did you feel the need to attack so quickly my comments?

 

I don't "attack comments", I reply to them. Like I'm doing right now.

 

how do you know that "they" have turned there backs on God?

 

Any person who resorts to commiting a major sin because they are in a tough situation is lacking faith in Allah.

 

Do Muslim womens husbands not allow there husband to do "despicable acts to their bodies."

 

Who said it's considered despicable acts if a person has sexual relations with their own spouse? No one did.

 

If you were implying i would use prostitutes then you are very wrong.

 

You misunderstood my comment. To a non-Muslim such as yourself, feeding your children is probably more important than putting faith in Allah, because you don't believe in Allah, or in the hereafter. Therefore, it is okay to you that these women sell their bodies, even if it's a major sin in Islam.

 

Western men MOSTLY have one partner at a time out of respect for them. Unlike some others.

 

Unlike some others what? Perhaps you would like to finish that sentence.

 

Salam.

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.They DO have a choice. It's called cleaning houses. They're prostituting themselves because it's the EASIEST solution that they can see. But like I said, better to barter away your hereafter, right?

 

Salam.

How do you know that?

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How do you know that?

 

It says right there in the article. One woman in particular traded house cleaning for prostitution.

 

Salam.

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My point? These women are gambling with their hereafter. I'm not saying "They're going to hell!", I'm not saying "Allah will forgive them". I'm saying they are taking a huge risk.

 

Salam.

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"At the start I was cleaning homes, but I wasn't making much. No matter how hard I worked it just wasn't enough," she says.

 

Karima, clad in all black, adds, "My husband died of lung cancer nine months ago and left me with nothing."

 

She has five children, ages 8 to 17. Her eldest son could work, but she's too afraid for his life to let him go into the streets, preferring to sacrifice herself than risk her child.

 

She was solicited the first time when she was cleaning an office.

 

"They took advantage of me," she says softly. "At first I rejected it, but then I realized I have to do it."

Edited by strider

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No, she did not "have to do it". No one "has to" break Allah's laws. They "choose to".

 

And at least she had some kind of lawful income while cleaning houses, regardless of how little and how insufficient it might have been. Those who do righteous deeds please their Lord. And who has more wealth than Allah? Who would He consider more deserving of it?

 

Why don't we create a scale? On one hand, we have someone who pleases Allah, puts her complete faith in Him, and obeys His laws. On the other, we have someone who does not put her faith in Him, breaks his command, and does not make a righteous living for herself.

 

As I've said, let's not forget prophet Ayub. Do the stories say that he resorted to theft, murder, or any of that to relieve himself of the burden? No, it does not.

 

Salam.

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No, she did not "have to do it". No one "has to" break Allah's laws. They "choose to".

 

And at least she had some kind of lawful income while cleaning houses, regardless of how little and how insufficient it might have been. Those who do righteous deeds please their Lord. And who has more wealth than Allah? Who would He consider more deserving of it?

 

Why don't we create a scale? On one hand, we have someone who pleases Allah, puts her complete faith in Him, and obeys His laws. On the other, we have someone who does not put her faith in Him, breaks his command, and does not make a righteous living for herself.

 

As I've said, let's not forget prophet Ayub. Do the stories say that he resorted to theft, murder, or any of that to relieve himself of the burden? No, it does not.

 

Salam.

You need to take a step back and stop being so judgmental. It is so easy for us to sit around and condemn people outright when we don't even know what they are going through. Allah knows the intentions of these women and will judge them accordingly.

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If I ever find myself in such a position as to resort to prostitution because my faith in Allah is too weak and I need a quick wordly solution for my problem, then I won't ever make excuses to justify my action.

 

They dont do it because "their faith is too weak". They do it because their children are starving and because "No matter how hard they worked it just wasn't enough". So again, theyre not doing it for pleasure, but out of necessity. Im sure that if they made enough money cleaning houses, they wouldnt have prostituted themselves. You seem to think otherwise. You dont live in Iraq, and neither am I, so we should listen to the people who live there. If they say that halal jobs (because of the current war circumstances) do not provide enough income to feed their children, who are we to disagree?

 

 

Are they commiting a sin? Absolutely! Is it a necessary sin? Absolutely. No mother can watch her children starve to death. Thats a fact.

 

Salam

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No, she did not "have to do it". No one "has to" break Allah's laws. They "choose to".

 

And at least she had some kind of lawful income while cleaning houses, regardless of how little and how insufficient it might have been. Those who do righteous deeds please their Lord. And who has more wealth than Allah? Who would He consider more deserving of it?

 

Thats right. So out of 5 or 6 children which many of these women have, working halal jobs might provide for 3 or 4 of them. I guess they should let the others perish.

 

 

As ive said before, They are forced to do this by the circumstances. They are commiting a sin in order to save human lives, and Allah(swt) says that whomever saves a soul is like saving the whole of humanity.

 

If I had to steal in order to save my child from imminent death, I would do so in an instant.

 

Salam

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You need to take a step back and stop being so judgmental. It is so easy for us to sit around and condemn people outright when we don't even know what they are going through. Allah knows the intentions of these women and will judge them accordingly.

 

And you need to stop letting your emotions cloud your judgement. We cannot say "oh they're suffering, it's okay!" as some of you are. I might not know what they are going through, but neither do you know that it is okay (something you stated earlier).

 

They dont do it because "their faith is too weak".

 

Uh, what? Of course they do it because of weak faith in Allah. If I say "I have faith in you", would it make sense for me to go off and find wrong alternatives to the problem? Hardly.

 

And I don't use the word faith as the one intended to refer to the degree of one's belief in Allah. I mean it in the literal, English sense of the word.

 

Are they commiting a sin? Absolutely! Is it a necessary sin? Absolutely. No mother can watch her children starve to death. Thats a fact.

 

That's all I wanted you to do, which is to acknowledge that what they're doing can't always be justifiable.

 

And heh, I suppose it's better to feed your child and in the process displease Allah and go to hellfire, right?

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And heh, I suppose it's better to feed your child and in the process displease Allah and go to hellfire, right?

It's better to feed your children than watch them starve to death. Who are you to say otherwise haram actions done out of necessity displease Allah? Allah knows these women are sincere in their intention; they aren't prostituting themselves for pleasure.

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And heh, I suppose it's better to feed your child and in the process displease Allah and go to hellfire, right?

 

 

Nobody knows if:

 

a. ) Allah(swt) is overall pleased because although these women are commiting a sin , they are saving the lives of their children which is much more important in the sight of Allah(swt)

 

or

 

b. ) Allah(swt) is angry at these women because they should never commit sins.

 

Nobody knows which one of those Allah(swt) values more....so we should not be so judgemental. Allah(swt) is MOST MERCIFUL, and he is ever-ready to forgive His slaves

 

Salam

Edited by anthony19832005

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Peace

 

 

this is a classic case of commiting a lesser sin(prostitution) in order to avoid commiting a greater sin (starving one's children to death).

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It's better to feed your children than watch them starve to death. Who are you to say otherwise haram actions done out of necessity displease Allah? Allah knows these women are sincere in their intention; they aren't prostituting themselves for pleasure.

 

But is it better to break Allah's law than to watch them starve? Who are YOU to say that haraam actions done because one is unable to withstand hardship might not displease Allah? Their intention is not only to feed their families, it is to feed them through unconventional means. Let's not overlook that part.

 

And don't attempt to turn the tables on me, brother Anthony. My point from the beginning was against people who are saying outright that it is okay for them to prostitute themselves. I've stated repeatedly that they ARE breaking the laws of Islam and how can anyone say "it's okay, they don't really want to"? Good God.

 

Will Allah forgive them? Only He knows best. But if you're trying to convince me that He will approve of their actions, I won't agree with you at all.

 

Salam.

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Peace

this is a classic case of commiting a lesser sin(prostitution) in order to avoid commiting a greater sin (starving one's children to death).

 

As someone else stated earlier, would you commit murder to save your children? After all, going by your logic, you consider it a sin to "starve your children to death".

 

Murder is a major sin, just as adultery is. If you believe one should turn to prostitution, then you should believe that murder should be no worse. Prostitution does not simply harm those engaged in it, it harms many others as well.

 

Salam.

Edited by Layna

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Also, Allah ordered prophet Ibrahim to sacrifice his son. Did he say "Oh, but he is just a child and I'm a parent! I cannot do it!"? No, he did not. Allah commanded us (repeatedly) not to commit zinaa. Doing so is disobeying Allah, period. Whether or not He forgives you is a gamble you should not be willing to take.

 

Salam.

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