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Britsh Soldiers Asked The Us Jets To Bomb Them To Death!

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Peace

 

I wish death on those for whom the Qur'an has authorised the death penalty. If a muslim is a killer, then yes, it makes no difference to me who kills him, wether he dies at the hands of a muslim or not is none of my concern.

 

 

Would it concern you just as much if I said that I suppor the killing of American Army leaders/killers ? (which I DO btw) If not why not since the Qur'an says that ALL human life is sacred, regardless of religion.

 

Why would anyone NOT wish death on opressors?

 

Salam

Edited by anthony19832005

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Salaams peeps,

 

I take it you couldn't find anything in the shariah which allows you to wish for death on Muslims? It seems you have completely missed my point. Are you sure that by wishing for the death of other Muslims you are not violating the commands of Allah swt?

 

This is warfare, with two distinct sides - America and co supported by Muslims in Afghanistan against Taliban who are also supported by some Muslims in Afghanistan. Both parties are oppressors but one side is Muslim and the other side is not.

 

I wish death on those for whom the Qur'an has authorised the death penalty.

 

After a fair trial, no? You cannot apply domestic rulings in jihad.

 

If the murderers repent , then it's up to Allah(swt) to forgive them or not, but for a murder, the penalty is death, regardless of wether the murderer repents or not.

 

You said this in an earlier post which makes me think you are arguing for the sake of it. Murderers are due a fair trial before they are convicted. This is the fundamental rule of justice. Who are you to sit in the comfort of your home wishing for the death of Muslims during jihad at the hands of Non-Muslims under the premise of justice? Tyrants they may be, but if they are fighting in the cause of Allah against those who oppse Allah then you should wish them well and pray for victory. As I said before, their sins are the reason this tragedy has fallen upon them, and by fighting with a sincere heart they may be washing away some of these sins. Why would you wish for their death?

 

Peace

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I take it you couldn't find anything in the shariah which allows you to wish for death on Muslims?

 

The shariah itself dictates the death penalty against opressors/killers REGARDLESS of their religion. So no, im not wrong on this.

 

This is warfare, with two distinct sides - America and co supported by Muslims in Afghanistan against Taliban who are also supported by some Muslims in Afghanistan. Both parties are oppressors but one side is Muslim and the other side is not.

 

Correct. My Previous comment applies here aswell. I wish all the opressors one of 2 things: Either to be guided by Allah(swt) or Death.

 

After a fair trial, no? You cannot apply domestic rulings in jihad.

 

That would be best, however I dont think I'll see Bush before the Hague Tribunal anytime soon.

 

salam

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Salaams peeps,

 

The shariah itself dictates the death penalty against opressors/killers REGARDLESS of their religion. So no, im not wrong on this.

 

After a fair trial and in accordance with shariah. Your talking about domestic rules, in jihad, there are no trials, soldiers kill eachother. How can you wish for Non-Muslims to kill Muslims during war? You wish for those who disbelieve and oppose Allah and His messenger to kill those who believe in Allah and His Messenger in a state of jihad. Can you not see something wrong with this?

 

You seem to be mixing two separate issues here, the behaviour of the Taliban towards their people and their efforts in jihad. Their oppressive nature towards their people is not the reason for the kuffar invading those lands so the Quranic juncture you are using for justice does not apply in this case. Despite being oppressors they are now faced with a Non-Muslim enemy and are fighting them. Their crimes on the domestic level are not under scrutiny whilst fighting in the cause of Allah and their resultant death would not be a form of justice in the worldy sense. Its rich coming from you to wish for their deaths as you do not know what is now in their hearts whilst they fight. You have a confused view of justice in shariah.

 

An example would be the following:

 

A man is accused of stealing something. Later that day he gets into a row with someone and they exchange blows. His opponent takes out a sword and cuts off his hand in a violent rage. Has Quranic justice been implemented in this case? If he is later found to be guilty of stealing does it justify the attack of the other man who had no interest whether he stole something or not? This is not justice.

 

Peace

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Salam

 

You have convinced me to change my mind, I realize now that I was wrong afterall. Thank you so much for your perseverance bro!

 

Salam

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peace,

 

just a couple fo questions before this is resolved:

 

1. so a non-mulsim force that goes to the aid of a muslim army fighting another muslim army (lets say iraq v iran, and volunteers from zimbabwe come to help the iranians defend themselves), then according to what you have argued josh, it is the 'duty' of all the muslims to kill the non-muslim force before going back to their own war?

 

2. let us suppose that, contrary to all history and reality, the british army HAD been sent to help the afghan people liberate themselves from the taliban, and HAD intended only the best for the afghan people, putting their troops under joint afghan control, putting aid where it was needed (and not into luxury lifestyles for the senoir 'aid' workers), building schools, roads, clean water, really helping the afghan people to develop, ensuring a modern democratic Islamic republic with decent infrastructure, and advanced health/education facilities. You would *still* say the duty of all muslims worldwide was to attack the british to 'drive them out', even though the afghan govt and people would strongly desire them to stay?

 

3."This is warfare, with two distinct sides - America and co supported by Muslims in Afghanistan against Taliban who are also supported by some Muslims in Afghanistan. Both parties are oppressors but one side is Muslim and the other side is not. "

 

so because one side is wholly muslim, despite having one of the most reactionary and oppressive regimes, that is "muslim", whereas the other, despite being a progressive, advanced and developing govt that the majority population would certainly support in a fair and free election, is "not muslim" because it has non-muslim fighters in it?

 

you were very clever in making it america v taliban there, but in actual fact it is the govt of karzai v the taliban, because when the UK and US leaves, it is him and his govt who will be slaughtered, and the people of afghanistan re-imprisoned under the taliban.

 

i wonder what the sisters of IF, some of who are enjoying their educations, some to enjoy their educations soon (from their first choices! :sl:), were you to argue that they now have to live under a taliban govt, where they cannot even go to school, let alone university.

 

peace and love. :sl:

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Salaams peeps,

 

You have convinced me to change my mind, I realize now that I was wrong afterall. Thank you so much for your perseverance bro!

 

Alhamdulillah! No need to thank me bro, it was a reminder for myself before it was advise for you. InshAllah we can make dua for the people of Afghanistan so that Allah grants them victory and just rulers.

 

Peace

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Salaams peeps,

 

1. so a non-mulsim force that goes to the aid of a muslim army fighting another muslim army (lets say iraq v iran, and volunteers from zimbabwe come to help the iranians defend themselves), then according to what you have argued josh, it is the 'duty' of all the muslims to kill the non-muslim force before going back to their own war?

 

Yes.

 

2. let us suppose that, contrary to all history and reality, the british army HAD been sent to help the afghan people liberate themselves from the taliban, and HAD intended only the best for the afghan people, putting their troops under joint afghan control, putting aid where it was needed (and not into luxury lifestyles for the senoir 'aid' workers), building schools, roads, clean water, really helping the afghan people to develop, ensuring a modern democratic Islamic republic with decent infrastructure, and advanced health/education facilities. You would *still* say the duty of all muslims worldwide was to attack the british to 'drive them out', even though the afghan govt and people would strongly desire them to stay?

 

I'm not well versed in fiqh of war but from my understanding the Qur'an commands us not to take Non-Muslims as our protectors. And I don't really need to entertain the above scenario as it has never happened at it never will.

 

so because one side is wholly muslim, despite having one of the most reactionary and oppressive regimes, that is "muslim", whereas the other, despite being a progressive, advanced and developing govt that the majority population would certainly support in a fair and free election, is "not muslim" because it has non-muslim fighters in it?

 

Erm, yes. I think. I'm not sure what you meant there. Either they are Muslim or they are not.

 

you were very clever in making it america v taliban there, but in actual fact it is the govt of karzai v the taliban, because when the UK and US leaves, it is him and his govt who will be slaughtered, and the people of afghanistan re-imprisoned under the taliban.

 

He is merely a puppet who has been put there by America. We both know this and so do the Afghan people. I am not defending the Taliban, nor am I wishing for them to destroy America and for them to retake power in Afghanistan. Ideally they will kill the foreign troops, and repent for their evil ways and help rebuild the country. My argument all along has been of religious etiquettes, as opposed to a political one. As Muslims we should show compassion towards the efforts of other Muslims and refrain from speaking ill of them. What happens in Afghanistan will happen, it is the Will of Allah.

 

i wonder what the sisters of IF, some of who are enjoying their educations, some to enjoy their educations soon (from their first choices! ), were you to argue that they now have to live under a taliban govt, where they cannot even go to school, let alone university.

 

I'll let the sisters speak for themselves. But I'm sure they will tread softly around the issue of Muslims in jihad and not wish death upon them.

 

Peace

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I'm not well versed in fiqh of war but from my understanding the Qur'an commands us not to take Non-Muslims as our protectors. And I don't really need to entertain the above scenario as it has never happened at it never will.

 

Erm, yes. I think. I'm not sure what you meant there. Either they are Muslim or they are not.

 

Let us remember that The Prophet(pbuh) created and upheld the Medinah Charter, in which All the people of Medinah (Jews and Muslims) were the sworn protectors and helpers of one another. They defended eachother and fought as one. This is proof that it is allowed to make pacts of peace and mutual cooperation in times of war with non-muslims. Im sure that, in light of this, the Quranic verse which seemingly instructs muslims not to take non-muslims as protectors is interpreted differently.

 

Salam

Edited by anthony19832005

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The Americans and their allies do not invade Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia to help Muslims. On the contrary, the non-Muslims invent lies and fairy tales as a pretext to attack, invade and occupy Muslims countries. The US forces and their allies attack and destroy civilian targets in Muslims countries and they also terrorize, rape, torture, murder and massacre innocent and defenseless Muslims in Muslim countries. And they also use media to slander and insult Islam and Muslims.

 

Only brainwashed morons claim and believe that the Americans and their allies come to help Muslims to liberate Muslim countries! The fact is the American terrorists and their allies are the enemy of Islam and Muslims !!! We Muslims know very well that the American forces, the US regime and their allies are the enemy of Islam and Muslims when the non-Muslims desecrate the Holy Quran, Masjids etc !

Edited by wiseguy

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Let us remember that The Prophet(pbuh) created and upheld the Medinah Charter, in which All the people of Medinah (Jews and Muslims) were the sworn protectors and helpers of one another. They defended eachother and fought as one. This is proof that it is allowed to make pacts of peace and mutual cooperation in times of war with non-muslims. Im sure that, in light of this, the Quranic verse which seemingly instructs muslims not to take non-muslims as protectors is interpreted differently.

 

Salam

 

So many times the Jews had broken the Medinah Charter and other peaceful agreements between Muslims and Jews when the Jews conspired and cooperated with the pagans to attack Medina and the Jews tried to destroy the new Islamic government and massacre Muslims and the Prophet Muhammad in vain. And the prophet Muhammad and Muslim army managed to defeat the Jews and pagans and punished them. Therefore we Muslims cannot take non-Muslims as our protecters and helpers .

 

I challenge you to show me a Quranic verse that commands us to take Non-Muslims as our protectors and helpers. On the contrary the Holy Quran commands us Muslims not to take Non-Muslims as our protectors and helpers:

 

Let us look at the Noble Verses that address this issue:

 

"O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors; they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust. (The Noble Quran, 5:51)"

 

Just because a person might be a non-Muslim it doesn't automatically make him an enemy to the Muslims. Peace-loving and innocent non-Muslims are to be treated with justice and kindness, otherwise the Muslims would be committing a sin and violating Allah Almighty's Holy Commands, "For Allah loveth Those who are just".

 

Allah Almighty commanded the Muslims to be kind and just with non-Muslims: "Allah forbids you not, With regard to those who Fight you not for (your) Faith Nor drive you out Of your homes, From dealing kindly and justly With them: For Allah loveth Those who are just. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"

 

My sincere advice for you dear brother Anthony please study Islam under the guidance of Muslim scholars. You are my brother in Islam as long as you do not contradict Islam.

Edited by wiseguy

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So many times the Jews had broken the Medinah Charter and other peaceful agreements between Muslims and Jews when the Jews conspired and cooperated with the pagans to attack Medina and the Jews tried to destroy the new Islamic government and massacre Muslims and the Prophet Muhammad in vain. And the prophet Muhammad and Muslim army managed to defeat the Jews and pagans and punished them. Therefore we Muslims cannot take non-Muslims as our protecters and helpers .

 

I challenge you to show me a Quranic verse that commands us to take Non-Muslims as our protectors and helpers. On the contrary the Holy Quran commands us Muslims not to take Non-Muslims as our protectors and helpers:

 

Yes, but Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) took jews as his helpers and protectors and vice versa(medina charter). Certainly this means we can do the same thing aswell.

 

Salam

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peace,

 

Yes.

 

then this is no more than mere parochiality, religious patriotism if you will.

 

i am glad you wish to taliban to repent, but its really not likely, is it? And certainly once they will have driven out the west, they will be so puffed up with pride, and 'righteous' anger at those afghans who built a modern-aiming afghanistan, they will fall upon the afghan people with renewed belief in their 'mission' to impose their distorted view of Islam.

 

i do beleive this is why bro anthony wishes the taliban and west to destroy themselves, because he understand that the new afghan govt cannot stand against these fanatics, with their enormous support from pakistan.

 

obviously, personally i do not wish more deaths upon british troops, and hope the leadership will grasp that they have to involve afghans within their structure and stop committing atrocities. I also realise the low likelihood of this, and the almost inevitable tragic consequences.

 

if i had a magic wand to wave, i would end this violence right now, alas that i cannot.

 

i only hope for the best for the afghan people, of so many in the world they deserve it more than most.

 

 

peace and love. :sl:

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Yes, but Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) took jews as his helpers and protectors and vice versa(medina charter). Certainly this means we can do the same thing aswell.

 

Salam

 

Please show me the principles of the Medina Charter to support your allegation above.

 

History tells us how the treacherous Jews broke the Medina Charter and other peace-agreements between Jews and Muslims by attacking Medina to destroy the new Islamic government and trying to eliminate Muslims and the prophet Muhammad in vain. Allah is the Greatest.....The prophet Muhammad and Muslims managed to defeat and punish the treacherous Jews.

 

And now you think that you can ask the American forces and their allies to 'liberate' Muslim countries by attacking, invading and occupying Muslim countries, attacking and bombing civilian targets and terrorizing, torturing, raping and massacring innocent and defenseless Muslims. Only traitors and hypocrites ask non-Muslims to attack, invade and occupy Muslim countries and terrorize and massacre innocent and defenseless Muslims. Don't you know that Muslims are being oppressed and terrorized by Christians, Buddhists, Hindus etc all over the world? And now you are asking us Muslims to take non-Muslims as our protectors! You are defying the Holy Quran by asking us Muslims to take non-Muslims as our protectors!!

 

Let us look at the Noble Verses that address this issue:

 

"O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors; they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust. (The Noble Quran, 5:51)"

 

Why don't you ask your son to conspire and cooperate with some robbers who are non-Muslims and allow them to rob you of your home and property and terrorize the members of your family?

Edited by wiseguy

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2nd retired British general slams US

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_news.yahoo(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/s/ap/20070902/ap_on_re_mi_ea/britain_us_iraq"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_news.yahoo(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/s/ap/20070902/ap_on_...britain_us_iraq[/url]

 

By TARIQ PANJA, Associated Press Writer

1 hour, 26 minutes ago

 

LONDON - A second retired British general slammed the United States over its Iraq policy, saying in a newspaper interview published Sunday that it had been "fatally flawed."

 

Maj. Gen. Tim Cross, the most senior British officer involved in the postwar planning, said he had raised serious concerns about the possibility of Iraq falling into chaos but said former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld dismissed the warnings.

 

"Right from the very beginning we were all very concerned about the lack of detail that had gone into the postwar plan and there is no doubt that Rumsfeld was at the heart of that process," Cross said in the Sunday Mirror newspaper.

 

The comments come a day after the release of critical comments made by the general who led the British army during the Iraq invasion.

 

Retired Gen. Sir Mike Jackson also singled out Rumsfeld for criticism, saying his approach to the invasion was "intellectually bankrupt," according to quotes excerpted from his autobiography and published by The Daily Telegraph Saturday.

 

Rumsfeld stepped down as defense secretary in November, one day after midterm elections in which opposition to the war in Iraq contributed to heavy Republican losses.

 

In December, President Bush praised Rumsfeld for his service and made no mention of the often-harsh criticism of Rumsfeld.

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