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Muslim and Christians: More in common than you think

12/23/2004 - Religious Social Interfaith - Article Ref: IC0412-2557

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By: Ibrahim Hooper

IslamiCity* -

 

 

 

 

"Behold! The angels said: 'O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him. His name will be Jesus Christ, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the Hereafter and in (the company of) those nearest to God.'"

 

Before searching for this quote in the New Testament, you might first ask your Muslim co-worker, friend or neighbor for a copy of the Quran, Islam's revealed text. The quote is from verse 45 of chapter 3 in the Quran.

 

It is well known, particularly in this holiday season, that Christians follow the teachings of Jesus. What is less well understood is that Muslims also love and revere Jesus as a one of God's greatest messengers to mankind.

 

Other verses in the Quran, regarded by Muslims as the direct word of God, state that Jesus was strengthened with the "Holy Spirit" (Quran 2:87) and is a "sign for the whole world." (Quran 21:91) His virgin birth was confirmed when Mary is quoted as asking: "How can I have a son when no man has ever touched me?" (Quran 3:47)

 

The Quran shows Jesus speaking from the cradle and, with God's permission, curing lepers and the blind. (Quran 5:110) God also states in the Quran: "We gave (Jesus) the Gospel (Injeel) and put compassion and mercy into the hearts of his followers." (Quran 5:27)

 

As forces of hate in this country and worldwide try to pull Muslims and Christians apart, we are in desperate need of a unifying force that can bridge the widening gap of interfaith misunderstanding and mistrust. That force could be the message of love, peace and forgiveness taught by Jesus and accepted by followers of both faiths.

 

Christians and Muslims would do well to consider another verse in the Quran reaffirming God's eternal message of spiritual unity: "Say ye: 'We believe in God and the revelation given to us and to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and it is unto Him that we surrender ourselves.'" (Quran 2:136)

 

The Prophet Muhammad himself sought to erase any distinctions between the message he taught and that taught by Jesus, who he called God's "spirit and word." Prophet Muhammad said: "Both in this world and in the Hereafter, I am the nearest of all people to Jesus, the son of Mary. The prophets are paternal brothers; their mothers are different, but their religion is one."

 

When Muslims mention the Prophet Muhammad, they always add the phrase "peace be upon him." Christians may be surprised to learn that the same phrase always follows a Muslim's mention of Jesus or that we believe Jesus will return to earth in the last days before the final judgment. Disrespect toward Jesus, as we have seen all too often in our society, is very offensive to Muslims.

 

Unfortunately, violent events and hate-filled rhetoric around the world provide ample opportunity for promoting religious hostility. And yes, Muslims and Christians do have some differing perspectives on Jesus' life and teachings. But his spiritual legacy offers an alternative opportunity for people of faith to recognize their shared religious heritage.

 

America's Muslim community stands ready to honor that legacy by building bridges of interfaith understanding and challenging those who would divide our nation along religious or ethnic lines.

 

We have more in common than we think.

 

 

 

Ibrahim Hooper is National Communications Director for the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR). He may be contacted at: ihooper[at]cair-net(contact admin if its a beneficial link)

 

 

"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamicity(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/articles/Articles.asp?ref=IC0412-2557"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamicity(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/articles/Article...ref=IC0412-2557[/url]

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Walaikum Salaam,

 

I must say that I strongly disagree with this article, and the ayats used are used out of context. What the Christians practise and believe today is not what Isa (alayhi sallam) taught. How can we have love for the Christians when they insult Allah by saying He was born, He had a son and He came to earth had a wrestling match with David and lost? This is Allah, your Creator they are slandering. Where is our al-Wala wal-Bara?

 

Allah has in numerous places called the Christians kaafirs and has said that they are in hell and has told us not to take them as friends - However, this does not mean that we do not give them their rights and that we do not show them kindness and gentleness in calling them to Islam.

 

Do you know how serious a statement it is to insult Allah by saying that He has a son? Allah Says:

 

And they say: "The Most Beneficent (Allaah) has begotten a son (or offspring or children) [as the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allaah, and the Christians say that He has begotten a son ['Isa (Christ)], and the pagan Arabs say that He has begotten daughters (angels, etc.)]." (Maryam 19:88)

 

Indeed you have brought forth (said) a terrible evil thing. (Maryam 19:89)

 

Whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins, (Maryam 19:90)

 

That they ascribe a son (or offspring or children) to the Most Beneficent (Allaah). (Maryam 19:91)

 

But it is not suitable for (the Majesty of) the Most Beneficent (Allaah) that He should beget a son (or offspring or children). (Maryam 19:92)

 

Read this again please,

 

Whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins, (Maryam 19:90)

 

Subhanallah - The heavens are almost torn, the earth split asunder and the mountains have fallen to ruins at this statement! This is your Lord they are insulting and making Shirk with.

 

Surely in disbelief are they who say that Allaah is the Messiah, son of Mary. (al-Ma’idah 5:17 and 72)

 

Surely, disbelievers are those who said, 'Allaah is the third of the three [in a Trinity]. (Al-Ma’idah 5:73)

 

O you who believe! Take not My enemies and your enemies (i.e. disbelievers and polytheists, evildoers etc.) as friends, showing affection towards them, while they have disbelieved in what has come to you of the truth (i.e. Islamic Monotheism, this Qur’aan and Muhammad sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam)... (Surah al Mumtahinahayah ayah 1).

 

Was-Salaamu Alaikum,

 

Abu Suhaylah.

Edited by abu_suhaylah

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Walaikum Salaam,

 

I must say that I strongly disagree with this article, and the ayats used are used out of context.  What the Christians practise and believe today is not what Isa (alayhi sallam) taught.  How can we have love for the Christians when they insult Allah by saying He was born, He had a son and He came to earth had a wrestling match with David and lost?  This is Allah, your Creator they are slandering.  Where is our al-Wala wal-Bara?

I agree that what most Christians practice today is not what Jesus (Isa) taught - any more than what most Muslims practice today is what Mohammed (PBUH) taught. Just look at the splits between Shi'a, Sunni, and Sufi. or those between Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant.

But no insult to Allah is intended, any more than Muslims intend to insult God by not believing that Jesus was His Son.

 

Readings (Muslims should consult the original in Arabic, as all translations are suspect, the English below is for the benefit of non-Muslims - like me):

2:62

Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

2:120

And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say: Surely Allah's guidance, that is the (true) guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper.

5:51

O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

5:69

Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.

22:17

Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabeans and the Christians and the Magians and those who associate (others with Allah)-- surely Allah will decide between them on the day of resurrection; surely Allah is a witness over all things.

 

As Muslims, you may not be allowed to love Christians. But Christians are not just allowed, they're expected to love everybody. Hate the Sin, but love the Sinner. Being human, not many manage that, any more than many Muslims live a life of perfection.

 

At this time of year, Christians celebrate the traditional date of the birth of Jesus (though the actual holiday was adapted from a pagan midwinter festival - just as the great Masjid in Istanbul was adapted from the Church of Hagia Sophia).

 

Anyway, it is a time to wish Peace and Goodwill to All People. Not just all Christians, or all Catholics, or all Jews. All people. The Sinner and the Saint, the Idolator and the Believer. May they be shown Mercy and Compassion, may their past sins be forgiven, and may they go and sin no more.

 

I repeat 5:69

Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.

 

Your way is not our way, our way is not your way. Nonetheless, Peace be upon you, and may the Compassionate, the Merciful show you His compassion and mercy.

 

And that is a sincere wish, though I don't consider myself to be a Christian.

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I agree that what most Christians practice today is not what Jesus (Isa) taught - any more than what most Muslims practice today is what Mohammed (PBUH) taught. Just look at the splits between Shi'a, Sunni, and Sufi. or those between Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant.

But no insult to Allah is intended, any more than Muslims intend to insult God by not believing that Jesus was His Son.

 

Yes you are right that many Muslims do not practice what Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) taught and Islam has split into many sects (just as the Prophet sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam said it would), but the difference is that what he taught is still in tact in it's original form and when we differ we have something that we can refer back to, the Book of Allah and the authentic Sunnah, whereas Christians have nothing to refer back to because their Book is no longer in the true form it was revealed in. What's more, even if it was in tact, it is all abrogated by the Qur'aan and the teaching of Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam).

 

Whether an Insult to Allah is intended or not is irrelevant the statement is still blasphemy and the person who believes that Allah has a son is a Kaafir just as Allah has stated in the Qur’aan.

 

Aebrain, what do you consider yourself then?

Edited by abu_suhaylah

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Salaam, im not saying that its okay for christians to believe that jesus is the SON of God that is crazy because how can anything be close or near close to God. it doesn't work. i am just saying that we should accept all people and try to understand where they are coming from. i only say this because how can we expect christians to accept us muslims if we dont accept them. it makes no sense to point fingers at them. they are human beings to and deserve our respect.

wasalaam

sister verity

 

Walaikum Salaam,

 

Why do we want Christians to accept us? We want them to accept Islam of course, but we do not water down our religion to accommodate them. They are human being you are right and they have rights such as us treating them justly, but this does not mean we have to respect them or love them. We hate Kufr, why? Because Allah hates it, so base your love on what Allah loves and your hate on what Allah hates. And when an article is posted saying that we (Muslims and Christians) don't really have any differences then any Muslim who has an ounce of Eemaan would object because surely the difference between belief and disbelief is not something small, rather it is major, and yes we may share some of the same teachings pertaining to morality, but the essential fundamentals of our religion are completely different and if you know anything about the correct Islamic Aqeedah you will realise this. And as Allah says in the Qur’aan, “…So after the truth, what else can there be, save error? How then are you turned away?� (Yunus 10:32)

 

Was-Salaamu Alaikum,

 

Abu Suhaylah.

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salaam brother,

you have blown this whole thing out of proportion. i never said that "muslims and christians are almost the same" because i would be blind to think that.i said that muslims and christians have similarities in the teachings. in addition i am saying is that if we stop arguing about such matters and accept all people with warm hearts it would be much better.

 

'God has laid down certain limits, do not transgress them; He is silent on certain matters, do not knowingly argue over them.' (hadith of Ad-Darqutni)

 

this is how war gets started. people need to keep to themselves and not judge other peoples religions. leave the judgement to Allah brother!

wasalaam brother

sister verity

 

Assalaamu Alaikum,

 

I never said that you said Muslims and Christians are the same; I was talking about the article posted. I have left the judgement to Allah, any you know what:

 

"Whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted from him and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.� [Qur'aan 3:85]

 

Islam teaches Tawheed and Christianity teaches Shirk, that's it, period! Accepting people, does this mean we accept their Kufr? By accepting it shows in our actions that we have no hate for it. And as I have already said, we deal with Christians (or non-Muslims) justly, with kindness and good manners calling them to Allah, but we do not love them or respect their beliefs. Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) used to get accused of breaking up families, because maybe a son would become a Muslim and the families would object and so on, but it is those who do not follow what Allah has revealed who are dividing because they are not doing what Allah has commanded.

 

Was-Salaamu Alaikum,

 

Abu Suhaylah.

Edited by abu_suhaylah

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Salaam brother,

thankyou for a great debate. i think we both made our points. i hope there is no hard feelings inshallah. but i regretfully have to go now because i am tired and have to go to sleep.

take care brother

wasalaam

sister verity

 

Walaikum Salaam,

 

I was not debating - LOL!

 

Nothing personal and of course no hard feelings, but truth is distinct from falsehood.

 

Take care,

 

Was-Salaamu Alaikum,

 

Abu Suhaylah.

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assalaamu ‘alaikum wa rahmatullah.

 

i skimmed over the thread at the request of one of my friends and thought i’d post some comments on a couple of things.

 

while i agree that the christians – regardless of which sect they’re from; catholic, protestant, orthodoxy, whatever... – do not follow the teachings of prophet jesus, ‘alaihis-salaam, (and this is coming from a former christian – me) i didn’t really see anything terribly wrong with the original article written. i mean, i did get a sense that what they’re hoping for by doing this isn’t exactly correct, but i do see it as a possible means to give the proper da’wah to Islam... although, in all likelyhood, those muslims who’d be participating in these interfaith discussions wouldn’t be exactly the best candidates to do the job.

 

in any case, if the muslims taking part in these discussions do things the right way – that is, to call the christians to the tawheed of Allah with kindness and beautiful admonition instead of just trying to be one big happy america, then i can see this as a good thing. otherwise, i feel these types of discussions are just big wastes of time and doors to being overly apologetic to other religions for what Islam stipulates and legislates.

 

case in point, one of my friends saw one of these types of interfaith discussions on tv. there was a muslim participant, along with other representitives of other faiths. my friend told me that all of them tried hyping up their religion, promoting it and standing behind their beliefs... everybody except one. guess who that one was... yup, it was the muslim. he was being apologetic to all of them as if he had no conviction in his beliefs, no backbone. it was absolutely pathetic.

 

we as muslims have to stick fast to our religion and our beliefs and not be apologetic to others just because they don’t agree with a certain aspect of it or whatnot.

 

as someone quoted earlier, Allah tells us, “the jews will never be pleased with you, neither will the christians, until you follow their religion. say: surely, Allah’s guidance is the guidance and surely if you were to follow their desires after that which has come to you of the knowledge, you do not have any ally, nor helper from Allah.�

 

and by Allah, i cannot attest to how true this is! so many of my experiences with non-muslims in general and with christians in specific just adds further support to Allah’s words.

 

as for the two verses that were quoted, 2:26 & 5:69, then it would benefit to read the explanations of those two verses before quoting them, especially in a discussion like this.

 

read here:

2:26 – "you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.tafsir(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/default.asp?sid=2&tid=2182"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.tafsir(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/default.asp?sid=2&tid=2182[/url] (to get the full explanation of the verse, which is contained in the next 3 or 4 pages after this one, just click next).

 

5:69 – "you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.tafsir(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/default.asp?sid=5&tid=14338"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.tafsir(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/default.asp?sid=5&tid=14338[/url]

 

 

 

 

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Hi Everyone,

 

This is why I don't come here much anymore. It is not even worth talking about.

 

Peace for Real.

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Hi Everyone,

 

This is why I don't come here much anymore. It is not even worth talking about.

 

Peace for Real.

 

Just because we don’t agree with you it does not mean that we will not have good manners when discussing issues with you or that we won’t deal with you justly. I think your problem from what I have seen from your posts on other threads is that you take everything the wrong way and misunderstand a lot of what is being said. If you want to discuss then let us discuss the fundamentals (i.e. our belief in God) because this and I think you will agree is the crux of the issue, and everything else filters down from this. So let us start with the foundation and once that is firm we can then build on it.

 

As for Rasheed's post then I think that sums it up.

Edited by abu_suhaylah

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Just because we don’t agree with you it does not mean that we will not have good manners when discussing issues with you or that we won’t deal with you justly.  I think your problem from what I have seen from your posts on other threads is that you take everything the wrong way and misunderstand a lot of what is being said.  If you want to discuss then let us discuss the fundamentals (i.e. our belief in God) because this and I think you will agree is the crux of the issue, and everything else filters down from this.  So let us start with the foundation and once that is firm we cab then build on it.

 

As for Rasheed's post then I think that sums it up.

 

 

Hi abu,

 

My problem is you keep picking on me bacause I am a Christian and if I try and explain that I am not that way I get in trouble with the monitors. So it's just not worth talking about. You're are not going to try and understand us so why bother.

 

Peace anyways. :D

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Hi abu,

 

My problem is you keep picking on me bacause I am a Christian and if I try and explain that I am not that way I get in trouble with the monitors. So it's just not worth talking about. You're are not going to try and understand us so why bother.

 

Peace anyways.  :D

 

peace

 

I’m saddened to see that you feel discriminated on the bases of your religion…I’m sure brother Abu did not intend for that. I’m willing to understand and so are many others so don’t feel like you can’t say anything…we are all entitled to our opinion so long as it does not hurt others and is within the "you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_forums.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?act=boardrules"]forum rules[/url].

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Peace.

 

I feel much the same as Ignatius.

 

I'm a Unitarian Christian. They're Christians who believe that Jesus was a prophet and a human being, not God incarnate. This is not a common view, but it's not spectacularly rare, either. There are at least four Christian sects that have this teaching.

 

The first thing I ever learned about Islam I learned at the Unitarian Church. It was that Muslims believe the same thing about Jesus that we believe. This used to make me very happy. I felt like I had a brotherly connection with millions of people, halfway around the world, of a different culture, a different language. When I was a little girl nobody at my school was of the same Christian sect as me. They thought it was really weird. When that made me feel lonely, I would think about all the Muslims on the other side of the world and I wouldn't feel lonely any more.

 

But on IF people are always saying nasty things about Christians. They say we reject God, which is about the meanest thing I can think of to say to somebody of faith. The brotherhood I felt as a child isn't here. There's no respect for Christians. We can hardly defend our position without getting yelled at. Even now people are arguing how the things we share aren't important. We're not even good enough to be friends with. There's a whole section that appears to be dedicated to nothing other than Muslims saying what they think Christian scripture means and then making fun of it. And people here won't even see that these behaviors are disrespectful and mean and hurtful.

 

Thank you, Verity, for speaking out for understanding and respect.

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Hi abu,

 

My problem is you keep picking on me bacause I am a Christian and if I try and explain that I am not that way I get in trouble with the monitors. So it's just not worth talking about. You're are not going to try and understand us so why bother.

 

Peace anyways.  :D

 

Yes, I know you think I am picking on you, but like I said, just because we differ it does not mean I will not use good manners with you and deal with you justly. If you think because I differ with you I am picking on you then you are very much mistaken. You posted something that I disagree with and I replied so you say I am picking on you - Please look around this forum and see the amount of Muslims who have posted things I do not agree with - I responded to them too, but not one said I am picking on them to the best of my knowledge. We are discussing - If you are going to think that I am picking on you every time we disagree then there is not much I can do about that - But if you want to discuss the fundamentals then I am happy to do so with you.

 

Regards,

 

Abu Suhaylah.

 

PS - Maybe if you stop to think why I spend so much time in your 'cyber' company you will come to realise that it is because I want good for you as opposed to picking on you.

Edited by abu_suhaylah

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Kale thank you for explaining but you must understand that we don't comment or criticize Christian scripture for the sake of being disrespectful on the other hand to correct people of the wrong things being said. We can't accept a wrong thing being said or being disrespectful to Allah(SWT)/God, and that's what we are against. The things some Christians say about Allah (SWT) is so blasphemous as He is incarnate or has a son istaghfara'Allah and we need to correct people on that.

 

But I should remind all of this:

 

No discrimination is allowed in the forum, if you see any please report it:

 

33- discriminating based on race, religion, nationality: warn, if repeated disable

 

No private talks:

 

Personal conversation should be limited to the (Private Messages console), provided by IF.

 

I suggest the Ignatius and abu_suhaylah settle this through PM, Ignatius abu_suhaylah didn't mean to pick on you.

 

Thank you

Edited by Zeinab

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Aebrain, what do you consider yourself then?

A very imperfect human being. If you want a religious label, the terms "Agnostic", "Liberal Catholic" and "Lesser Path Buddhist" are equally accurate.

 

I try to do good - and am certain as I can be that at least some Muslims I know personally will enter Paradise, if it exists. The same is true of some Christians I know, and some Jews too.

 

Do I believe in the day of Judgement? I'm not convinced. But I do believe that everyone should behave as if it will happen, especially if it won't. And if there's no parole from Perdition, if the Almighty runs a private torture chamber for sinners to be excruciated for eternity with no chance of repentance and release, then I want no part of it. My God is one of compassion and mercy, in addition to justice. This puts me outside mainstream Islam, and mainstream Christianity too for that matter.

 

I'd be in violation of the terms of service of this site if I went into more detail about why I hold my beliefs, as they're not Islamic - and it would be a sin (by my own belief) for me to divert any Muslim from their proper path. I can make some statements though.

 

I do not believe 9:113 is correct.

I do believe that 2:224 is correct, and many other parts of the Holy Koran too. 5:32 for example.

 

I'm surprised no-one on this thread has quoted 29:46 before now.

 

Peace.

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A very imperfect human being. If you want a religious label, the terms "Agnostic", "Liberal Catholic" and "Lesser Path Buddhist" are equally accurate.

 

I try to do good - and am certain as I can be that at least some Muslims I know personally will enter Paradise, if it exists. The same is true of some Christians I know, and some Jews too.

 

Do I believe in the day of Judgement? I'm not convinced. But I do believe that everyone should behave as if it will happen, especially if it won't. And if there's no parole from Perdition, if the Almighty runs a private torture chamber for sinners to be excruciated for eternity with no chance of repentance and release, then I want no part of it.  My God is one of compassion and mercy, in addition to justice. This puts me outside mainstream Islam, and mainstream Christianity too for that matter.

 

I'd be in violation of the terms of service of this site if I went into more detail about why I hold my beliefs, as they're not Islamic - and it would be a sin (by my own belief) for me to divert any Muslim from their proper path. I can make some statements though.

 

I do not believe 9:113 is correct.

I do believe that 2:224 is correct, and many other parts of the Holy Koran too. 5:32 for example.

 

I'm surprised no-one on this thread has quoted 29:46 before now.

 

Peace.

 

Firstly, none of us are the ‘model’ human being but I (and I am sure I can speak for many of my fellow Muslims too) am always trying to improve and better myself.

 

Forgive me for saying this and I do not mean anything personal by this, but it does not make sense for you to say that you are an agnostic, liberal catholic and a lesser path Buddhist and that each term adequately describes what you are upon.

 

An agnostic is someone who is unsure about the existence of God, a catholic is someone who has firm believe in the existence of God but gives God partners and a Buddhist is someone who believes in reincarnation. So your belief can be summed up as:

 

You are not sure whether God exists but you have firm believe in the existence of God all be it your ascribe partners to him and you believe in you will be reincarnated.

 

Do these beliefs not clash and contradict one another?

 

How do you know that you and others will enter paradise? None of us know if we will even be alive tomorrow but yet you say that if paradise exists you will be in it. You doubt in something but yet believe you will be in it.

 

The chance for repentance is in this life, and the path of salvation is always open until you breathe your last breath. If there is no judgement and no test in this life then what is the point of it all? Should we just live this life and then enter paradise? Why not just enter paradise straight away and not bother with this life if that were true?

 

Allah is the Most Merciful and when you come to think of what you have, your eyes, your ears, your heart, your lungs, your brain and the list is endless you will come to realise this, but those who deny His existence and turn away from him, do they deserve this mercy or do they deserve His anger?

 

Let’s say you keep stealing from the company you work at and your boss catches you but gives you another chance and the you steal again and he catches you again and he gives you another chance and then you steal again do you really think he will give you another chance or do you think he will fire you?

 

I am getting the feeling that your beliefs are based upon what you think and are a mixture of many different factors, and this to me carries no weight because it cannot be substantiated.

 

If you do not believe in some or even all of the verses in the Qur’aan this is fine and it is not a problem and to be honest I am not going to try and prove to you that they are valid either because there are issues which are more important to address first and that is God and His attributes. However, I am unsure where to start this discussion because I am unsure as to what your exact belief is, so before we start I want to ask you one question:

 

Do you believe God exists or are you unsure?

 

Please just keep your reply to answering this question and then we can move on from there, what has already passed in terms of discussion is irrelevant for what I hope we can focus on.

 

I would just like to thank you too for the etiquettes you are showing in discussing issues that have a tendency to let emotions creep in, so inshallaah it will carry on like this.

 

Regards,

 

Abu Suhaylah.

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A very imperfect human being. If you want a religious label, the terms "Agnostic", "Liberal Catholic" and "Lesser Path Buddhist" are equally accurate.

 

I try to do good - and am certain as I can be that at least some Muslims I know personally will enter Paradise, if it exists. The same is true of some Christians I know, and some Jews too.

 

Do I believe in the day of Judgement? I'm not convinced. But I do believe that everyone should behave as if it will happen, especially if it won't. And if there's no parole from Perdition, if the Almighty runs a private torture chamber for sinners to be excruciated for eternity with no chance of repentance and release, then I want no part of it.  My God is one of compassion and mercy, in addition to justice. This puts me outside mainstream Islam, and mainstream Christianity too for that matter.

 

I'd be in violation of the terms of service of this site if I went into more detail about why I hold my beliefs, as they're not Islamic - and it would be a sin (by my own belief) for me to divert any Muslim from their proper path. I can make some statements though.

 

I do not believe 9:113 is correct.

I do believe that 2:224 is correct, and many other parts of the Holy Koran too. 5:32 for example.

 

I'm surprised no-one on this thread has quoted 29:46 before now.

 

Peace.

 

Firstly, none of us are the ‘model’ human being but I (and I am sure I can speak for many of my fellow Muslims too) am always trying to improve and better myself.

 

Forgive me for saying this and I do not mean anything personal by this, but it does not make sense for you to say that you are an agnostic, liberal catholic and a lesser path Buddhist and that each term adequately describes what you are upon.

 

An agnostic is someone who is unsure about the existence of God, a catholic is someone who has firm believe in the existence of God but gives God partners and a Buddhist is someone who believes in reincarnation. So your belief can be summed up as:

 

You are not sure whether God exists but you have firm believe in the existence of God all be it your ascribe partners to him and you believe in you will be reincarnated.

 

Do these beliefs not clash and contradict one another?

 

How do you know that you and others will enter paradise? None of us know if we will even be alive tomorrow but yet you say that if paradise exists you will be in it. You doubt in something but yet believe you will be in it.

 

The chance for repentance is in this life, and the path of salvation is always open until you breathe your last breath. If there is no judgement and no test in this life then what is the point of it all? Should we just live this life and then enter paradise? Why not just enter paradise straight away and not bother with this life if that were true?

 

Allah is the Most Merciful and when you come to think of what you have, your eyes, your ears, your heart, your lungs, your brain and the list is endless you will come to realise this, but those who deny His existence and turn away from him, do they deserve this mercy or do they deserve His anger?

 

Let’s say you keep stealing from the company you work at and your boss catches you but gives you another chance and the you steal again and he catches you again and he gives you another chance and then you steal again do you really think he will give you another chance or do you think he will fire you?

 

I am getting the feeling that your beliefs are based upon what you think and are a mixture of many different factors, and this to me carries no weight because it cannot be substantiated.

 

If you do not believe in some or even all of the verses in the Qur’aan this is fine and it is not a problem and to be honest I am not going to try and prove to you that they are valid either because there are issues which are more important to address first and that is God and His attributes. However, I am unsure where to start this discussion because I am unsure as to what your exact belief is, so before we start I want to ask you one question:

 

Do you believe God exists or are you unsure?

 

Please just keep your reply to answering this question and then we can move on from there, what has already passed in terms of discussion is irrelevant for what I hope we can focus on.

 

I would just like to thank you too for the etiquettes you are showing in discussing issues that have a tendency to let emotions creep in, so inshallaah it will carry on like this.

 

Regards,

 

Abu Suhaylah.

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Firstly, none of us are the ‘model’ human being but I (and I am sure I can speak for many of my fellow Muslims too) am always trying to improve and better myself.

 

Forgive me for saying this and I do not mean anything personal by this, but it does not make sense for you to say that you are an agnostic, liberal catholic and a lesser path Buddhist and that each term adequately describes what you are upon.

 

An agnostic is someone who is unsure about the existence of God, a catholic is someone who has firm believe in the existence of God but gives God partners and a Buddhist is someone who believes in reincarnation. So your belief can be summed up as:

 

You are not sure whether God exists but you have firm believe in the existence of God all be it your ascribe partners to him and you believe in you will be reincarnated.

 

Do these beliefs not clash and contradict one another?

 

How do you know that you and others will enter paradise? None of us know if we will even be alive tomorrow but yet you say that if paradise exists you will be in it. You doubt in something but yet believe you will be in it.

 

The chance for repentance is in this life, and the path of salvation is always open until you breathe your last breath. If there is no judgement and no test in this life then what is the point of it all? Should we just live this life and then enter paradise? Why not just enter paradise straight away and not bother with this life if that were true?

 

Allah is the Most Merciful and when you come to think of what you have, your eyes, your ears, your heart, your lungs, your brain and the list is endless you will come to realise this, but those who deny His existence and turn away from him, do they deserve this mercy or do they deserve His anger?

 

Let’s say you keep stealing from the company you work at and your boss catches you but gives you another chance and the you steal again and he catches you again and he gives you another chance and then you steal again do you really think he will give you another chance or do you think he will fire you?

 

I am getting the feeling that your beliefs are based upon what you think and are a mixture of many different factors, and this to me carries no weight because it cannot be substantiated.

 

If you do not believe in some or even all of the verses in the Qur’aan this is fine and it is not a problem and to be honest I am not going to try and prove to you that they are valid either because there are issues which are more important to address first and that is God and His attributes. However, I am unsure where to start this discussion because I am unsure as to what your exact belief is, so before we start I want to ask you one question:

 

Do you believe God exists or are you unsure?

 

Please just keep your reply to answering this question and then we can move on from there, what has already passed in terms of discussion is irrelevant for what I hope we can focus on.

 

I would just like to thank you too for the etiquettes you are showing in discussing issues that have a tendency to let emotions creep in, so inshallaah it will carry on like this.

 

Regards,

 

Abu Suhaylah.

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Firstly, none of us are the ‘model’ human being but I (and I am sure I can speak for many of my fellow Muslims too) am always trying to improve and better myself.

 

Forgive me for saying this and I do not mean anything personal by this, but it does not make sense for you to say that you are an agnostic, liberal catholic and a lesser path Buddhist and that each term adequately describes what you are upon.

 

An agnostic is someone who is unsure about the existence of God, a catholic is someone who has firm believe in the existence of God but gives God partners and a Buddhist is someone who believes in reincarnation. So your belief can be summed up as:

 

You are not sure whether God exists but you have firm believe in the existence of God all be it your ascribe partners to him and you believe in you will be reincarnated.

 

Do these beliefs not clash and contradict one another?

 

How do you know that you and others will enter paradise? None of us know if we will even be alive tomorrow but yet you say that if paradise exists you will be in it. You doubt in something but yet believe you will be in it.

 

The chance for repentance is in this life, and the path of salvation is always open until you breathe your last breath. If there is no judgement and no test in this life then what is the point of it all? Should we just live this life and then enter paradise? Why not just enter paradise straight away and not bother with this life if that were true?

 

Allah is the Most Merciful and when you come to think of what you have, your eyes, your ears, your heart, your lungs, your brain and the list is endless you will come to realise this, but those who deny His existence and turn away from him, do they deserve this mercy or do they deserve His anger?

 

Let’s say you keep stealing from the company you work at and your boss catches you but gives you another chance and the you steal again and he catches you again and he gives you another chance and then you steal again do you really think he will give you another chance or do you think he will fire you?

 

I am getting the feeling that your beliefs are based upon what you think and are a mixture of many different factors, and this to me carries no weight because it cannot be substantiated.

 

If you do not believe in some or even all of the verses in the Qur’aan this is fine and it is not a problem and to be honest I am not going to try and prove to you that they are valid either because there are issues which are more important to address first and that is God and His attributes. However, I am unsure where to start this discussion because I am unsure as to what your exact belief is, so before we start I want to ask you one question:

 

Do you believe God exists or are you unsure?

 

Please just keep your reply to answering this question and then we can move on from there, what has already passed in terms of discussion is irrelevant for what I hope we can focus on.

 

I would just like to thank you too for the etiquettes you are showing in discussing issues that have a tendency to let emotions creep in, so inshallaah it will carry on like this.

 

Regards,

 

Abu Suhaylah.

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