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Can you beat up someone

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hehe i want to know the answer for this to.

i had mates almost having a fight but for stupid reasons. one them was that someone said "i rule this college, everyone looks up to me"-this other muslim (who was d---- at the time was about to beat him up-but it was stupid reason plus he was d----)

second was when this guy chats to this girl and treats her like a "sister", this other muslim tried to sort him out saing you aint related and shouldnt be talking to her...a fight almost happend but for a girl that was stupid..anyways i better stop typing i want to hear the answer for this too :D

Edited by dead man walking

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assalaamu alaykum,

 

i tend to think that although you shouldnt use it often, violence can sometimes be a valid method of correcting others behaviour when reasoning will not work.

 

some brothers have decended to a very base and vile level, especially where the dunya is loved too much,

 

i have dragged an asian brother out of his car before for shouting sexual abuse at a somali sister and "politely" corrected him - with a shaken fist, though i didnt actually hit him.

 

as al-capone said, you get further with a kind word and a gun than you do with just a kind word.

 

i suspect a couple of brothers of dealing and if i ever find it to be true i have no doubt that they will be dealt with harshly by the local community as such people have been in the past.

 

actually there was such a case a few months ago, we had problems with some kurdish brothers who were drinking in public, bringing kafir women of lose morality into their homes and shouting sexual abuse at sisters, in the end there cars were firebombed and they were "politely" asked to leave the community and not return.

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salam alikum,

 

thanks brother duwud for your response,

 

if we study the actions taken by brother duwud we;d notice he didnt raise a hand to hurt the person rather he used pyschological terrorism,

dont lose your temper,

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I'm not sure whether or not it's permissible to fight if you're the aggressor. But you do have every right to fight in self-defense.

 

Question :

 

    What is the viewpoint of Islam toward self-defense? Is it a right? Are there conditions on that right? Does the Qur'an speak to the issue of self-defense?

 

 

Answer :

 

    Praise be to Allaah. 

 

    Protecting oneself and one’s honour, mind, wealth and religion is a well-established basic principle in Islam. These are the five essentials which are well known to Muslims. A person has to defend himself; it is not permissible for him to consume that which will harm him, and it is not permissible for him to allow anyone to harm him. If a person or a vicious animal etc attacks him, he has to defend himself, or his family or his property, and if he is killed he is counted as a shaheed (martyr), and the killer will be in Hell. 

 

    If the harm that will result from this aggression is little and he gives up defending himself for the sake of Allaah, then undoubtedly Allaah will compensate him for that, so long as this does not cause any increase in the wrongdoing against him or anyone else.

 

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Asalaamualaikum

 

no from what i have learnt that is NOT acceptable for a good muslim. I dont have any hadith or references to Islamic history to show you, but what i know is the only time you can hurt another person is in self-defence. or in form of jihad against the enemy, - these are very extreme

 

The Beloved Prophet :D was tormented to the bone but he never ever lost his temper, he had stones thrown at him until he had blood pouring from his shoes but he still asked Allah swt to forgive these people and give them another chance to be worked on...

 

So i think that is a grand example to us muslims on how to control our tempers as we all know anger is Satan's happiness and a good muslim should always keep control over himself.

 

Allahu Alim

Ma'salaama

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assalaamu alaykum,

 

losing your temper is wrong, if you lose your temper and hit someone what have you done? you have hit them because you are angry with them, you have done it for you and not for Allah (swt).

 

do it because you are angry for the sake of Allah at the very least, or better yet be annoyed for the sake of Allah and do it with a calm head and heart.

 

so if violence becomes necessary, use a calm head and think it through and if in the end you think it is Islamically justifable then go ahead but do not do it out of anger but for a defined purpose and purely for the sake of pleasing Allah.

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Asalam Aleikum,

 

If someone was bothering me, i would let them know and ask them to stop.

 

If they turn violent, i fight them. Self-defense.

 

Masalam

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Asalam Aleikum,

 

If someone was bothering me, i would let them know and ask them to stop.

 

If they turn violent, i fight them. Self-defense.

 

Masalam

 

assalaamu alaykum m-16,

 

what if it wasnt violent?

 

what if someone was just shouting obcense sexual abuse at your muslim sister as she went about her business down the street?

 

what if they just walked up and spat on you because you are muslim? (this has happened to me and i didnt hit him, but only because he must have been at least 60)

 

what if some kafirs or fasiq muslims were wondered the streets drunk and vomiting over the pavement where your children and little brothers and sisters ride their bikes? or openly smoking and taking drugs in the street?

 

what if someone was spray painting the walls with grafiti, bringing down the whole neighourhood?

 

what if someone was dealing or pimping right across the street from your home and the police couldnt do anything as had no evidence because everyone was too affraid to speak out against them in court?

 

WHAT THEN?

 

all the above do not involve violence against you, yet all of the above require action be taken of one form or another...

 

to not act is to invite further and worse things to happen, to watch a community get worse and worse until before you know it the muslims begin to act this way also.

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salam alikum,

some very good points bro where violence is nessary,

i remember watching a lecture by siraj wahaj, who was living in an area where drug dealers were messing up the area, and even dealing near the masjids, so he being the imam gathered some inteligence from converts who use to hang with the dealers etc, and 1 day went to the dealers house with alot of guys and threated the dealer to leave or there will be trouble. and soon the the dealer left,

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Al salaam alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

 

what if someone was just shouting obcense sexual abuse at your muslim sister as she went about her business down the street?

 

what if they just walked up and spat on you because you are muslim? (this has happened to me and i didnt hit him, but only because he must have been at least 60)

 

what if some kafirs or fasiq muslims were wondered the streets drunk and vomiting over the pavement where your children and little brothers and sisters ride their bikes? or openly smoking and taking drugs in the street?

 

what if someone was spray painting the walls with grafiti, bringing down the whole neighourhood?

 

what if someone was dealing or pimping right across the street from your home and the police couldnt do anything as had no evidence because everyone was too affraid to speak out against them in court?

 

Brother, we Muslims will only resort to violence when physically threatened, in self-defense. Even if we are punched in the face, we do not retaliate unless we must. We do not fight someone who spits on us for surrendering to Allah, when they "shout obscene sexual abuse" at our Muslim sisters, etc. Our Lord tells in the Qur'an that we have the best example in the Prophet(s.a.w).

 

to not act is to invite further and worse things to happen, to watch a community get worse and worse until before you know it the muslims begin to act this way also.

 

We must act, but not resort to violence. There are plenty of other ways to rid a community of evil. In fact, violence will only worsen it.

 

Dear brother Slave, I respect Imam Saraj Wahaj and I believe he is a great Scholar, however I don't agree with what he did, there are other solutions. :D

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salam alikum brother yosuf,

but do you not think it is justifiable to use violence when currpotion has spread? when your words will mean nothing?

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If I have a very valid (islamic) reason and I completely lose my temper,

can I beat up someone?

 

Careful !!!! You might get beaten up instead

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what if it wasnt violent?

 

I wouldn't have to fight them.

 

what if someone was just shouting obcense sexual abuse at your muslim sister as she went about her business down the street?

 

Words don't hurt, ill just ignore it.

 

what if they just walked up and spat on you because you are muslim? (this has happened to me and i didnt hit him, but only because he must have been at least 60)

 

I would knock them out.

 

what if some kafirs or fasiq muslims were wondered the streets drunk and vomiting over the pavement where your children and little brothers and sisters ride their bikes? or openly smoking and taking drugs in the street?

 

I would pray for them.

 

what if someone was spray painting the walls with grafiti, bringing down the whole neighourhood?

 

I would call the cops.

what if someone was dealing or pimping right across the street from your home and the police couldnt do anything as had no evidence because everyone was too affraid to speak out against them in court?

 

I would video tape it and show the cops.

 

all the above do not involve violence against you, yet all of the above require action be taken of one form or another...

 

Spiting is just as bad as hitting.

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Assalamu alaykum

 

Akhi Slave, corruption has spread everywhere. Gathering a gang of Muslimeen to end it, like Siraj Wahaj did, will only increase it. Those drug dealers the Muslims threatened could have taken revenge on the Muslims, imagine the corruption then. It won't work. Like I said, there are plenty of other ways to deal with it.

Edited by Yousuf

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Assalamu alaykum

 

Akhi Slave, corruption has spread everywhere. Gathering a gang of Muslimeen to end it, like Siraj Wahaj did, will only increase it. Those drug dealers the Muslims threatened could have taken revenge on the Muslims, imagine the corruption then. It won't work. Like I said, there are plenty of other ways to deal with it.

 

 

wa alaykumus salaam yousuf,

 

you've been listening to the guy on your icon too much and the other pacifist muslims, did you never hear of these cases of the muslims throwing these drug dealers out? they have cleaned up there streets by threatening force and if necessary using it.

 

if i knew of someone dealing in my neighbourhood i would gather the brothers and they would be told to pack their things and leave or face the consequences.

 

sometimes violence is justified and necessary to protect your families and your brothers and sisters. the kafirs and fasiqs in this world need to realise we are not all pacifists and although we love peace in our world and our local community, we are prepared to obtain it by force if necessary.

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Assalamu alaykum

 

Dear brother Dawud, the guy in my icon is a well known and respected Sunni Shaykh, the Messenger of Allah(pbuh) warned us of disrespecting our Scholars.

 

What I am trying to say is that violence is not always the answer in Islam. We Muslims are in no position to wage war on those who corrupt the society. If I discover my neighbor is a drug dealer, I will report him to the police and not try to be a tough guy. We Muslims are not vigilantes. :D

Edited by Yousuf

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Assalamu alaykum

 

Dear brother Dawud, the guy in my icon is a well known and respected Sunni Shaykh, the Messenger of Allah(pbuh) warned us of disrespecting our Scholars.

 

What I am trying to say is that violence is not always the answer in Islam. We Muslims are in no position to wage war on those who corrupt the society. If I discover my neighbor is a drug dealer, I will report him to the police and not try to be a tough guy. We Muslims are not vigilantes. :D

 

 

wa alaykumus salaam yousuf,

 

jazakallah brother for correcting me, you are right i shouldnt mention the bad points about a sunni scholar without mentioning the good ones also, and i didnt even warn against him, i just cast a disparaging remark which is not called for.

 

i have serious issues with sheikh hamza yusuf, but i recongnise he has done a lot of good also but we are not permitted to debate such things on this forum as it is strictly non factional so i think it is best we do not discuss such things.

 

but i am not advocating waging war on society, of-course non-violence is better to start with but sometimes it becomes necessary but there are often steps that can be taken before it gets to that level i think we can both agree on.

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Assalamu alaykum

 

Actually, such debates are permitted in this forum, but only in advanced Islamic discussion. I myself have been debating all week, I just don't have the energy anymore. :D

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:D

 

i have found that Islam has calmed me down quite a lot. i no longer hate anyone at all really- sure there may be some people i dislike, but no longer is there the extreme hate.

 

:D

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If I have a very valid (islamic) reason and I completely lose my temper,

can I beat up someone?

 

Asalamu alaykum

 

Usually when you beat someone you build hatred towards them…is that good? To loathe someone? surely Islam does not permit it, love and hate for the sake of your lord. If you have been attacked due to your belief or someone is slandering Allah (swt) or the prophet (pbuh) then use violence as a last resort…under no circumstance should you use your power to thump others…tempting but I suggest you refrain from it. There are many other ways to deal with issues that don’t include violence.

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If I have a very valid (islamic) reason and I completely lose my temper,

can I beat up someone?

:D

Islam does not believe in violence. you should try and hold your temper. if you cant then sit down, if you still cant then drink water and if you still cant then lie down. this is stated in a hadith

:D

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:D

Brothers, Islam is a way of life not a 'religion',

If we turn up to the history of Islam, it is mesmerizing,

let alone the history, even if we go through te life of prophet Muhammed :D , we find that it is so voilent and so 'to the point'.

I say this 'cause, Allah :D gave permission for the muslims to fight, ang fight they did, And how- 313 came upon 1000.

Even before the battle of badr, The prophet Muhammed :P authorized many skirmishes, to subdue the desert bedoins or to loot caravans.

The Messenger of Allah :P also allowed 2 or 3 sahabi RA to conspire against a wealthy jew, who used to cause a lot of trougle for the muslims in medinah, and kill him. (I read 'bout this in Raheeq -al- Makhtum - Sealed nectar, the biography of the prophet :D). See the extract below.

So the point is there is no too much toleration in Islam, if someone crosses the line.

And of course it is most tolerant 'religion'.

 

Extract from Raheeq al makhtum

 

KA'B BIN AL-ASHRAF, KILLED:

Ka‘b bin Al-Ashraf was the most resentful Jew at Islam and the Muslims, the keenest on inflicting harm on the Messenger of Allâh (Peace be upon him) and the most zealous advocate of waging war against him. He belonged to Tai’ tribe but his mother to Banu Nadeer. He was a wealthy man known for his handsomeness, and a poet living in luxury in his fort south east of Madinah at the rear of Banu Nadeer’s habitations. On hearing the news of Badr, he got terribly exasperated and swore that he would prefer death to life if the news was true. When this was confirmed he wrote poems satirizing Muhammad (Peace be upon him), eulogizing Quraish and enticing them against the Prophet (Peace be upon him). He then

rode to Makkah where he started to trigger the fire of war, and kindle rancour against the Muslims in Madinah. When Abu Sufyan asked him which religion he was more inclined to, the religion of the Makkans or that of Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and his companions, he replied that the pagans were better guided. Wrespect to this situation, Allâh revealed His Words:

· “Have you not seen those who were given a portion of the Scripture? They believe in Jibt and Taghût, and say to the disbelievers that they are better guided as regards the way than the believers (Muslims).� [4:51]

 

He then returned to Madinah to start a fresh campaign of slanderous propaganda that took the form of obscene songs and amatory sonnets with a view to defaming the Muslim women.

At this stage, the situation became unbearable and could no longer be put up with. The Prophet (Peace be upon him) gathered his men and said: “Who will kill Ka‘b bin Al-Ashraf? He had maligned Allâh, and His Messenger.� Thereupon, Muhammad bin Maslamah, ‘Abbad bin Bishr, Al-Harith bin

Aws, Abu ‘Abs bin Hibr and Salkan bin Salamah, Ka‘b’s foster brother, volunteered to do the job. Muhammad bin Maslamah said: “O Messenger of Allâh, do you wish that I should kill him?� He said: “Yes.� He said: “Permit me to talk (to him in the way I deem fit).� He said: “Talk (as you like).� So, Muhammad bin Maslamah came to Ka‘b and talked to him, saying: “This man (i.e. the Prophet (Peace be upon him)) has made up his mind to collect charity (from us) and this has put us to a great hardship.� When he heard this, Ka‘b said: “By Allâh you will be put to more trouble by him.� Muhammad bin Maslamah answered: “No doubt, now we have become his followers and we do not like to forsake him until we see what turn his affairs will take. I want that you should give me a loan.� He said: “What will you mortgage?� Muhammad answered: “What do you want?� The immoral

and heartless Jew demanded women and children as articles of security against the debt. Muhammad said: “Should we pledge our women whereas you are the most handsome of the Arabs; and the son of one of us may be abused by saying that he was pledged for two wasq (measurement unit of weight) of dates but we can pledge you (our) weapons.� Ka‘b agreed. Salkan bin Salamah, Abu Na’ilah, at another time, went to see Ka‘b for the same purpose and there were more or less

the same subjects, only that Abu Na’ilah would bring him some companions. The plan was successful and provided for the presence of both men and weapons. On Rabi‘ Al-Awwal 14th, at night, the year 3 A.H. the people said good bye to the Prophet (Peace be upon him) and set out in the Name of Allâh to implement the carefully drawn plan. The Prophet (Peace be upon him) stayed back praying for them and supplicating Allâh to render them success. The men went and called upon

him at night. He came down although his wife warned him not to meet them alleging that: “I hear a voice which sounds like the voice of murder.� He said: “It is only Muhammad bin Maslamah and my foster brother Abu Na’ilah. When a gentleman is called at night even if he be pierced with a spear, he should respond to the call.� Abu Na’ilah said to his companions: “As he comes down, I will extend

my hand towards his head to smell and when I hold him fast, you should do your job.� So when he came down, they talked together for about an hour. They then invited him to go out and spend a nice time in the moonlight. On the way out, Abu Na’ilah remarked: “I smell the nicest perfume from you.� Ka‘b said: “Yes, I have with me a mistress who is the most scented of the women of Arabia.� Abu Na’ilah again said: “Allow me to smell (the scent on your head)�. He said: “Yes, you may

smell.� So he caught it and smelt. Then he said: “Allow me to do so(once again).� He then held his head fast and said to his companions: “Do your job.� And they killed him. The group of men came back after fulfilling their mission. One of them Al-Harith bin Aws was wounded by mistake with the swords of his men, and was bleeding badly. When they reached Baqee‘ Al-Gharqad, they shouted,

“Allâh is Great�. The Prophet (Peace be upon him) heard them and realized that they had killed the enemy of Allâh. As they saw him, he said: “Cheerful faces are yours.� In reply, they said: “And yours O Messenger of Allâh.� They handed the head of the tyrant over to him. He entertained Allâh’s praise for their success. He then applied his saliva to Al-Harith’s wound and it healed on the spot. When the Jews learned about the death of their tyrant, Ka‘b bin Al-Ashraf, they were scared and even their stonelike hearts were in the grip of inexpressible panic. They realized that the Messenger of Allâh (Peace be upon him) would thenceforth never hesitate to use force when good words and admonition failed. They remained silent and resigned, and faked adherence to covenants. Now the Prophet (Peace be upon him) was free to collect his thoughts and give himself up to resolving foreign affairs, and facing dangers that could be carried with hostile wind blowing again from Makkah.

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