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Our Muslim Credibility Problem: It's A Conspiracy

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it dont matter which non muslim country gonna respond. the chain reaction gonna lead to doomsday. :sl:

 

No it won't. Doomsday is the end of humanity as we know it. Perhaps millions of people will die, but that won't be the end.

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No it won't. Doomsday is the end of humanity as we know it. Perhaps millions of people will die, but that won't be the end.

 

perhaps you're right. i've my doubt though. let's talk donkey.

 

the world's population - about 6.76 billion.

muslim population - over 1.0-1.8 billion, 20-25% of the world population, most estimated figure - 1.5 billion.

number of countries in the world - 249.

number of poorest countries - about 50.

number of countries with nuclear weapons - 9

number of countries with alleged nuclear weapons - 2

number of nuclear weapon sharing countries - 7

number of countries with serious armed conflict - 22.

 

it takes decades for hiroshima and nagasaki to recover from deadly disastrous impact of atomic bombs tossed by the us.

 

let's say 9+2+7wmd=18 tossed nuclear bombs throughout the world. aggravated by countries with serious armed conflicts n burdened by poorest, poorer, poor countries, we gonna have hell in our hand. it's armageddon. dont think mankind then wanna live like dogs amidst destruction, starvation, maimed etc. that's gonna be the end, hence doomsday. dont worry it's gonna be generations later. by then we'll be 6 feet under the ground. :sl:

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The absolute worst-case scenario is that israel, Pakistan and India have a nuclear exchange. It would be a calamity but it would not affect the vast majority of the world.

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The absolute worst-case scenario is that israel, Pakistan and India have a nuclear exchange. It would be a calamity but it would not affect the vast majority of the world.

 

you couldn't be sure. only time can tell. what should be done right now is to strive to ensure a viable 2 state peace solution to end israel palestinian conflict.

 

israel as illegal occupant MUST withdraw totally from occupied territories n leave half of palestine to remain as palestinie while the other half to be called israel. dont forget israel lost palestine to the romans centuries ago. only via un incosiderate (to natives - palestinians) partition of palestine in 1947/48, can foreign jews have their israel reborn.

 

hamas MUST drop its charter to destroy israel AT THE SAME TIME israel withdraw totally from occupied territories.

 

how's that for justice for palestinians n security for israel? - israeli withdrawal from occupied territories for israel security, NOT hamas demise or expansion of illegal settlements/apartheid walls etc in occupied territories for israel security. :sl:

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you couldn't be sure. only time can tell. what should be done right now is to strive to ensure a viable 2 state peace solution to end israel palestinian conflict.

 

israel as illegal occupant MUST withdraw totally from occupied territories n leave half of palestine to remain as palestinie while the other half to be called israel. dont forget israel lost palestine to the romans centuries ago. only via un incosiderate (to natives - palestinians) partition of palestine in 1947/48, can foreign jews have their israel reborn.

 

hamas MUST drop its charter to destroy israel AT THE SAME TIME israel withdraw totally from occupied territories.

 

how's that for justice for palestinians n security for israel? - israeli withdrawal from occupied territories for israel security, NOT hamas demise or expansion of illegal settlements/apartheid walls etc in occupied territories for israel security. :sl:

 

I'm worried about how/if israel will be able to withdraw all the checkpoints and the thousands of "settlers". I mean, honestly, that much infrastructure? It's easy to say in principle that in principle it should be removed. But do you know how hard it is to move all that stuff? And do you know how hard it is to get people in a democracy to want to move all that stuff?

 

The only just solution I can see is slow and building pressure against israel to remove itself, until even the extremist settlers want to withdraw.

 

Anyone have any better ideas?

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The only just solution I can see is slow and building pressure against israel to remove itself, until even the extremist settlers want to withdraw.

 

I agree (and it seems that Obama is already delivering), except that I doubt that the extremist settlers will ever want to withdraw, nor that the extremist Islamists will want israel to exist. Somehow the majority of israelis will have to vote for a government which will force the extremists to withdraw, and somehow the majority of Palestinians (and - just as important - their militant backers) have to agree to allow a negotiated settlement. The former will be very difficult - the latter seems impossible.

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dont forget israel lost palestine to the romans centuries ago. only via un incosiderate (to natives - palestinians) partition of palestine in 1947/48, can foreign jews have their israel reborn.

 

That's a really crummy argument. The Ottoman Empire lost Palestine to the British. If you think that conquest confers legitimacy, then israel is legitimate.

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I'm worried about how/if israel will be able to withdraw all the checkpoints and the thousands of "settlers". I mean, honestly, that much infrastructure? It's easy to say in principle that in principle it should be removed. But do you know how hard it is to move all that stuff? And do you know how hard it is to get people in a democracy to want to move all that stuff?

 

all illegal infrastructure must be removed irrespective of the obstacles. that's the only way to have a viable 2 state solution. the first to go is the apartheid socalled security walls, followed by illegal settlers n idf personnel. israelis are welcome to build those walls at israel proper like the berlin wall.

 

israelis should use simple commonsense before wanting to erect those illegal walls, illegal settlements, illegal outposts, illegal idf posts etc. they should know that at the end of the day, they gotta move out lock stock barrel if they truly wanna peace n security for their generations. they should heed Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 that says “The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.â€

 

The only just solution I can see is slow and building pressure against israel to remove itself, until even the extremist settlers want to withdraw.

 

concur!! only israel strongest ally - super duper usa - can twist its arms not merely by lipservice but by withdrawing billions worth of arms and aid, sanctions etc.

 

Anyone have any better ideas?

 

i have one - withdraw un partition of palestine in 1947/48 thus rendering it null n void n consequently rendering the rebirth of israel illegal n not gonna be recognized by anyone. sounds cruel but that's what an eye for an eye is all about. :sl:

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I agree (and it seems that Obama is already delivering), except that I doubt that the extremist settlers will ever want to withdraw, nor that the extremist Islamists will want israel to exist. Somehow the majority of israelis will have to vote for a government which will force the extremists to withdraw, and somehow the majority of Palestinians (and - just as important - their militant backers) have to agree to allow a negotiated settlement. The former will be very difficult - the latter seems impossible.

 

what do you mean by ' negotiated settlement'? :sl:

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That's a really crummy argument. The Ottoman Empire lost Palestine to the British.

 

ottoman empire lost palestine to british AND arabs. read bbc copy n paste at post number 86.

 

bbc - At the time of World War I the area was ruled by the Turkish Ottoman empire. Turkish control ended when Arab forces backed by Britain drove out the Ottomans.

 

If you think that conquest confers legitimacy, then israel is legitimate.

 

israel becomes legitimate FOLLOWING un partition of palestine. The partition plan gave 56.47% of PALESTINE to the Jewish state and 43.53% to the Arab state, with an international enclave around Jerusalem. the partition is NEVER implemented. that's why despite israel's victory in 1948 n 1967 wars with arabs, its conquest is NOT LEGITIMATE, it still gotta abide by Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 that says “The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.”

 

dont forget jews lost their israel to the romans ages ago. the romans called israel - philistine and presentday palestine. arabs' word for philistine - filastin (?). there's no more israel until un comes up with partition proposal in 1947, thus forcing palestinians to share their palestine with foreign jews. inotherwords foreign jews get their israel on a golden platter unlike the arabs.

 

read true history not propaganda history as propagated by jewish virtual library. :sl:

Edited by tom

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ottoman empire lost palestine to british AND arabs. read bbc copy n paste at post number 86.

israel becomes legitimate FOLLOWING un partition of palestine. The partition plan gave 56.47% of PALESTINE to the Jewish state and 43.53% to the Arab state, with an international enclave around Jerusalem. the partition is NEVER implemented. that's why despite israel's victory in 1948 n 1967 wars with arabs, its conquest is NOT LEGITIMATE, it still gotta abide by Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 that says “The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.”

 

dont forget jews lost their israel to the romans ages ago. the romans called israel - philistine and presentday palestine. arabs' word for philistine - filastin (?). there's no more israel until un comes up with partition proposal in 1947, thus forcing palestinians to share their palestine with foreign jews. inotherwords foreign jews get their israel on a golden platter unlike the arabs.

 

read true history not propaganda history as propagated by jewish virtual library. :sl:

 

The fact is the UN and the superpowers such as the US regime and the UK regime have robbed Palestinian people of their land by giving 56.47 % of Palestine to Jews and pseudo-Jews (Khazars) to enable the Zionist terrorists to establish an illegal israel state. On the contrary, according to Ottoman statistics studied by Justin McCarthy, the population of Palestine in the early 19th century was 350,000, in 1860 it was 411,000 and in 1900 about 600,000 of which 94% were Arabs. In 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews.

 

It is like to give 56.47 % of USA to Jews and pseudo-Jews to establish israel. Therefore, the UN and the US regime and the UK regime are highly hypocritical and morally wrong.

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I agree with Tom that a nuclear war may destroy this world.

 

After an air burst, the fission products, unfissioned nuclear material, and weapon residues which have been vaporized by the heat of the fireball will condense into a fine suspension of very small particles 10 nm to 20 µm in diameter. These particles may be quickly drawn up into the stratosphere, particularly if the explosive yield exceeds 10 kt. The radio-biological hazard of worldwide nuclear fallout is essentially a long-term one because of the potential accumulation of long-lived radioisotopes (such as strontium-90 and caesium-137) in the body as a result of ingestion of foods containing the radioactive materials. Meteorological conditions will greatly influence fallout, particularly local fallout. Atmospheric winds are able to bring fallout over large areas. A wide range of biological changes may follow the irradiation of animals and Man. These vary from rapid death following high doses of penetrating whole-body radiation, to essentially normal lives for a variable period of time until the development of delayed radiation effects, in a portion of the exposed population, following low dose exposures. Late or delayed effects of radiation occur following a wide range of doses and dose rates. Delayed effects may appear months to years after irradiation and include a wide variety of effects involving almost all tissues or organs. Some of the possible delayed consequences of radiation injury are life shortening, carcinogenesis, cataract formation, chronic radiodermatitis, decreased fertility, and genetic mutations. Source: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Nuclear_fallout"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Nuclear_fallout[/url]

 

And the nuclear fallout will reach USA and UK if a nuclear war occurs.

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ottoman empire lost palestine to british AND arabs. read bbc copy n paste at post number 86.

 

Indeed, but Britain was the ruling country. If you think that conquest confers legitimac (I don't), then you have to agree that not only was the formation of israel legitimate (as it was given the land by the ruler of the land), but the current borders of israel are legitimate because they were won in war.

 

dont forget jews lost their israel to the romans ages ago. the romans called israel - philistine and presentday palestine. arabs' word for philistine - filastin (?). there's no more israel until un comes up with partition proposal in 1947, thus forcing palestinians to share their palestine with foreign jews. inotherwords foreign jews get their israel on a golden platter unlike the arabs.

 

So? You were (and apparentl still are) arguing that conquest confers legitimacy. By that reasoning Britain was the legitimate ruler of the Ottoman territory known as Palestine, and they gave it to israel. They could have given it to the Armenians or the Irish or the Maltese and it would have been equally legitimate if you consider that conquest confers legitimacy. israel has since, also by conquest, expanded its borders. If you are saying that Jews lost their right to israel when they were defeated by the Romans you also have to say the same for the Palestinians.

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I agree with Tom that a nuclear war may destroy this world.

 

After an air burst, the fission products, unfissioned nuclear material, and weapon residues which have been vaporized by the heat of the fireball will condense into a fine suspension of very small particles 10 nm to 20 µm in diameter. These particles may be quickly drawn up into the stratosphere, particularly if the explosive yield exceeds 10 kt. The radio-biological hazard of worldwide nuclear fallout is essentially a long-term one because of the potential accumulation of long-lived radioisotopes (such as strontium-90 and caesium-137) in the body as a result of ingestion of foods containing the radioactive materials. Meteorological conditions will greatly influence fallout, particularly local fallout. Atmospheric winds are able to bring fallout over large areas. A wide range of biological changes may follow the irradiation of animals and Man. These vary from rapid death following high doses of penetrating whole-body radiation, to essentially normal lives for a variable period of time until the development of delayed radiation effects, in a portion of the exposed population, following low dose exposures. Late or delayed effects of radiation occur following a wide range of doses and dose rates. Delayed effects may appear months to years after irradiation and include a wide variety of effects involving almost all tissues or organs. Some of the possible delayed consequences of radiation injury are life shortening, carcinogenesis, cataract formation, chronic radiodermatitis, decreased fertility, and genetic mutations.

 

And the nuclear fallout will reach USA and UK if a nuclear war occurs.

 

Depends where it occurs and how many bombs go off. I doubt that it would be many - Pakistan doesn't have many, India wouldn't need many to defeat Pakistan and if you were nuking israel while trying to preserve Jerusalem you couldn't use many at all. It would only take a small bomb to destroy Mecca.

 

Don't forget that atomic bombs were tested in the atmosphere for decades (including in the US itself), probably in much larger numbers that would be used in a Pakistan-India-israel conflict The effects weren't great but they weren't disastrous either.

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I think ###### accidentally didn't cite a source. His post above about the result of nuclear war came from (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetarmageddononline(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/fallout.php"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetarmageddononline(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/fallout.php[/url] .

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Depends where it occurs and how many bombs go off. I doubt that it would be many - Pakistan doesn't have many, India wouldn't need many to defeat Pakistan and if you were nuking israel while trying to preserve Jerusalem you couldn't use many at all. It would only take a small bomb to destroy Mecca.

 

Don't forget that atomic bombs were tested in the atmosphere for decades (including in the US itself), probably in much larger numbers that would be used in a Pakistan-India-israel conflict The effects weren't great but they weren't disastrous either.

 

The fact is ordinary men and women are unable to detect the presence of nuclear fallout until they suffer life shortening, carcinogenesis, cataract formation, chronic radiodermatitis, decreased fertility, and genetic mutations. The nuclear fallout can contaminate of the food chain long before ordinary people realise it. Can you detect the presence of nuclear fallout in your own home? You can't.

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you think when pakistan tosses a nuclear bomb, super duper usa gonna bow reverently in awe? :sl:

 

 

salam.

 

thats what they did with the cuban missile crisis. look up the real history behind that one. the russianpresident gave america 24 hours to get out or else nukes were gonna start flying. all the marines and all the sailors jumped ship and now cuba has an american air craft carrier in their war museum.

 

just like you high school bully, america wimps out to somone whos will stand up to them. they pick on the little guy. and now, they cant even beat the little guy.

 

salam.

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salam.

 

thats what they did with the cuban missile crisis. look up the real history behind that one. the russianpresident gave america 24 hours to get out or else nukes were gonna start flying. all the marines and all the sailors jumped ship and now cuba has an american air craft carrier in their war museum.

 

just like you high school bully, america wimps out to somone whos will stand up to them. they pick on the little guy. and now, they cant even beat the little guy.

 

salam.

 

You'll need to post a source for that extraordinary claim. Just where are the Americans supposed to have "got out" from? And if the missile crisis was a loss for the US, why were Russian missiles not stationed on Cuba? The point of the Cuban missile crisis is that Russia sent shiploads of missiles to be set up on Cuba and the US objected strongly. The Russian ships turned back and the missiles were not stationed on Cuba.

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The fact is ordinary men and women are unable to detect the presence of nuclear fallout until they suffer life shortening, carcinogenesis, cataract formation, chronic radiodermatitis, decreased fertility, and genetic mutations. The nuclear fallout can contaminate of the food chain long before ordinary people realise it. Can you detect the presence of nuclear fallout in your own home? You can't.

 

Well, I can if I have a simple geiger counter.

 

Who said anything about 'ordinary men and women"? Ordinary scientists and technicians can detect fallout and track it. It's nasty stuff but the amount of fallout from a nuclear exchange involving India, Pakistan and israel is not going to have much effect on the US. As I said, the US used to conduct atmospheric nuclear blasts in the US, and while some people were no doubt harmed by them, it wasn't a disaster, much less Doomsday.

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You'll need to post a source for that extraordinary claim. Just where are the Americans supposed to have "got out" from? And if the missile crisis was a loss for the US, why were Russian missiles not stationed on Cuba? The point of the Cuban missile crisis is that Russia sent shiploads of missiles to be set up on Cuba and the US objected strongly. The Russian ships turned back and the missiles were not stationed on Cuba.

 

OK, I've done a cursory google, and I cannot find any reference to a US aircraft carrier in a Cuban war museum. What is the name of the ship?

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Well, I can if I have a simple geiger counter. Who said anything about 'ordinary men and women"? Ordinary scientists and technicians can detect fallout and track it.

 

Why do you use the word if ? The fact is most of the people do not have a simple geiger counter to detect nuclear fallout in their homes so they will not know when they are exposed to nuclear fallout !

 

It's nasty stuff but the amount of fallout from a nuclear exchange involving India, Pakistan and israel is not going to have much effect on the US. As I said, the US used to conduct atmospheric nuclear blasts in the US, and while some people were no doubt harmed by them, it wasn't a disaster, much less Doomsday.

 

As I have said before, most of the people in USA, UK etc do not have a simple geiger counter so they cannot detect the presence of nuclear fallout in their homes, villages, towns, cities until it is to late to avoid the nuclear fallout. The nuclear fallout will contaminate your farms, villages, towns, cities and the food chains and food webs. Even if they have a geiger counter, it is too late for them to avoid the nuclear fallout once the geiger counter detects the nuclear fallout because they and you are already exposed to ionizing radiation. Ionizing radiation such as neutrons and gamma rays will ensure that you are going to die sooner or later. Radiation poisoning will ensure that your tissue will be damaged due to excessive exposure to ionizing radiation. Or your body cells may mutate and you'll have abnormal children, Martians etc.

 

You should consider the short and long term effect of the nuclear radiation on human beings, animals and plants.

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As I have said before, most of the people in USA, UK etc do not have a simple geiger counter so they cannot detect the presence of nuclear fallout in their homes, villages, towns, cities until it is to late to avoid the nuclear fallout.

 

Nonsense. The health authorities would do the monitoring. And as I've said TWICE now, the amount of fallout reaching the US (and most other countries) from a nuclear exchange involving Pakistan, India and israel is likely to be negligible. It was negligible when the US did nuclear testing in the US.

 

You should consider the short and long term effect of the nuclear radiation on human beings, animals and plants.

 

I do consider it. That's why I'm glad my country does not use nuclear power for electricity generation. That's why I'm glad that they take precautions when I have an X-ray. That's why I am not personally worried about fallout from a nuclear exchange between Pakistan, India and israel. If I lived in Cairo, Istanbul or Athens I might be concerned.

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Nonsense. The health authorities would do the monitoring. And as I've said TWICE now, the amount of fallout reaching the US (and most other countries) from a nuclear exchange involving Pakistan, India and israel is likely to be negligible. It was negligible when the US did nuclear testing in the US.

I do consider it. That's why I'm glad my country does not use nuclear power for electricity generation. That's why I'm glad that they take precautions when I have an X-ray. That's why I am not personally worried about fallout from a nuclear exchange between Pakistan, India and israel. If I lived in Cairo, Istanbul or Athens I might be concerned.

 

Your ignorance is fooling you. Please read nuclear physics before you insult your own mind.

 

A nuclear war may affect the whole world including the US and UK. A Nuclear war will cause Nuclear Winter and Nuclear summer and harm the Ozone Layer because a series of large atmospheric nuclear explosions could significantly deplete the ozone layer , etc. Nuclear explosions produce both immediate and delayed destructive effects. Immediate effects (blast, thermal radiation, prompt ionizing radiation) are produced and cause significant destruction within seconds or minutes of a nuclear detonation. The delayed effects (radioactive fallout and other possible environmental effects) inflict damage over an extended period ranging from hours to centuries, and can cause adverse effects in locations very distant from the site of the detonation.

 

The US regime and the israeli regime of terror and their allies etc should destroy their own nuclear weapons to save the world instead of being highly hypocritical.

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Your ignorance is fooling you. Please read nuclear physics before you insult your own mind.

 

I have. You haven't.

 

A nuclear war may affect the whole world including the US and UK. A Nuclear war will cause Nuclear Winter and Nuclear summer and harm the Ozone Layer because a series of large atmospheric nuclear explosions could significantly deplete the ozone layer , etc. Nuclear explosions produce both immediate and delayed destructive effects. Immediate effects (blast, thermal radiation, prompt ionizing radiation) are produced and cause significant destruction within seconds or minutes of a nuclear detonation. The delayed effects (radioactive fallout and other possible environmental effects) inflict damage over an extended period ranging from hours to centuries, and can cause adverse effects in locations very distant from the site of the detonation.

 

Yes, they do. But the extent of the deleterious effects depends entirely on the amount of radioactive matter released. As I said (and you have not disputed) the number of bombs involved in a nuclear exchange between israel, Pakistan and India is likely to be small. Further, those bombs would not be anything like as powerful as the bombs held by the US, China and Russia. Thus not much radioactive matter would be released. Thus they would be unlikely to cause widespread health problems beyond the countries involved and they could not possibly cause a nuclear winter (or summer).

 

A nuclear war involving a large number of very powerful bombs (such as a war between China and the US in which hundreds of cities would be vaporised) could do catastrophic harm to the planet. A nuclear war involving a small number of not so powerful bombs (such as a war between Pakistan and israel in which four or five cities would be vaporised) could not do catastrophic harm to the planet.

 

The US regime and the israeli regime of terror and their allies etc should destroy their own nuclear weapons to save the world instead of being highly hypocritical.

 

They should. So should the regimes in Pakistan, China, France, Russia and India.

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