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world_footy_Gunner_laDy

Prohibition Of Riba

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sister every dollar and coin is lent out on debt and has debt attached to it and we cannot get away from that and thats the truth. If you have 5 dollars in your pocket right now Guess what that money is considered Riba because it was lent out with debt attached to it. We cannot avoid this, what i dont understand is why the scholars dont preach this in their own MUSLIM countries??

 

How are we to avoid not using this money. The very same scholar that you have on the viedo has used the same money that is in the cycle of Riba. We have and we all are still using it. However the way of living is different, we cannot escape it in todays times, unless we find a way of how not to be greedy!! And this is the problem, with that said sister i do respect the scholars and their opinions, however like isaid if you really find aproblem with real money then please send me all of yours .

Edited by twoswordali

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Debt and riba are different things?

 

 

no if every dollar made has debt attached to it then it is riba Riba is usuary. If every time i made a pizza and you purchach that pizza for 300 every day then all of a sudden i start making the pizza and charging 9000 for every slice then im attaching debt to the pizza, and imagine that this pizza was the only source of surviving

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sister every dollar and coin is lent out on debt and has debt attached to it and we cannot get away from that and thats the truth. If you have 5 dollars in your pocket right now Guess what that money is considered Riba because it was lent out with debt attached to it. We cannot avoid this, what i dont understand is why the scholars dont preach this in their own MUSLIM countries??

 

How are we to avoid not using this money. The very same scholar that you have on the viedo has used the same money that is in the cycle of Riba. We have and we all are still using it. However the way of living is different, we cannot escape it in todays times, unless we find a way of how not to be greedy!! And this is the problem, with that said sister i do respect the scholars and their opinions, however like isaid if you really find aproblem with real money then please send me all of yours .

 

First off, let me tell you that most scholars are unaware of this problem with money okay. Now as you can see for yourself that scholars aren't doing something about it yet you know what is wrong, it is your duty as a muslim to go to your local masjid in your country and try and discuss this issue with them. This is only a suggestion which you may or may not have already acted upon.

 

Second off, I don't think you did watch the lecture because you assume that this scholar has done nothing in terms of providing a solution for this issue. Well if you would have watched the whole thing you would have understood what his thoughts are on the matter. Of course, everyone is in this mess but the scholar here has done something more than just making us aware of the situation and ending it there.

 

This is the current state of our muslim ummah today -

 

Narrated Abū Saīd: The Prophet said, "You will follow the wrong ways of your predecessors so completely and literally that if

they should go into a lizard’s hole you, also, will go there." We said, "O Allah's Apostle! Do you mean the Jews and the

Christians?" He replied, "Whom else?" (meaning, of course, the Jews and the Christians.)

 

(Bukhāri)

 

His solution of his is based on Surah-ul-Kahf and I don't believe this quote of yours 'we cannot escape it in todays times, unless we find a way of how not to be greedy'. Although I would have done so if I never came accross this blessed scholar.

 

I strongly advise you read this book so that you can gain an understanding of what we as muslims should try to do at this current time. You will be surprised by what he has to say.

 

Give his other books a chance as well and see how much you will understand that this scholar is quite unique compare to the majority.

 

SŪRAH AL-KAHF: ARABIC TEXT - TRANSLATION AND MODERN

COMMENTARY

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_imranhosein(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/media/books/SurahKhafX.pdf"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_imranhosein(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/media/books/SurahKhafX.pdf[/url]

 

:sl:

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First off, let me tell you that most scholars are unaware of this problem with money okay. Now as you can see for yourself that scholars aren't doing something about it yet you know what is wrong, it is your duty as a muslim to go to your local masjid in your country and try and discuss this issue with them. This is only a suggestion which you may or may not have already acted upon.

 

Woa Woa slow down sister please dont be angry!

 

Second off, I don't think you did watch the lecture because you assume that this scholar has done nothing in terms of providing a solution for this issue. Well if you would have watched the whole thing you would have understood what his thoughts are on the matter. Of course, everyone is in this mess but the scholar here has done something more than just making us aware of the situation and ending it there.

 

he hasnt given much of a solution we still need to use money.

 

 

His solution of his is based on Surah-ul-Kahf and I don't believe this quote of yours 'we cannot escape it in todays times, unless we find a way of how not to be greedy'. Although I would have done so if I never came accross this blessed scholar.

 

Ive read all of the book on Surah UL Kahf by this scholar. It was very good i wont doubt that however this brother just stayed on the dajal and he had translated in his commentary most of the Surah relating to the dajal and gog and mogog. The Quran is the only guide that we need plain and simple. I agree with this brother on many points that he made and i can see how he related dajail to todays time, like i said it was a good read.

 

However sister if we can find a way of how not to be greedy then riba would be abolished automaticly. It is Muslaim schollars hired for dollars and corrupt Muslim leaders that is buying into this system. And the Muslims are like the youths in the cave, the youths representing the youngest religion Islam. ut this world has us in its grips and we cannot come away from money, we need it. I believe it is our duty as Muslims to find a way to Hallal the system of money whether it be paper or electronic, All has allowed this to go on so that we can find use in it and change it

 

I strongly advise you read this book so that you can gain an understanding of what we as muslims should try to do at this current time. You will be surprised by what he has to say.

 

Give his other books a chance as well and see how much you will understand that this scholar is quite unique compare to the majority.

 

SŪRAH AL-KAHF: ARABIC TEXT - TRANSLATION AND MODERN

COMMENTARY

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_imranhosein(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/media/books/SurahKhafX.pdf"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_imranhosein(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/media/books/SurahKhafX.pdf[/url]

 

:sl:

 

it was a very nice read, thank u for the invite, and i meant no disrespect to your teacher, your scholar may Allah continue to guide him and his following in knowledge

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Woa Woa slow down sister please dont be angry!

 

:sl:

 

Woa Woa to you too. Hey I wasn't angry when I said that! Wow so much misconceptions!

 

Lol, I said it was just a suggestion, i wasn't against you or anything, I was actually surprised someone was on my side which is quite rare...meh..

 

e hasnt given much of a solution we still need to use money.

 

Oh right, I can see where you are coming from. Right let me explain first of all, real money is anything that was used before the invention of paper money. For example gold, silver, etc. There is a hadith that explains what else can be used as money for example dates, rice basically anything that are in plentiful and that does not rot. Yes in Muhammad SAW time they used to use dates as money.

 

So in that society yuo will be using real money and there will be no transactions of riba taking place as long as everyone are strictly follwoing the Quran and Sunnah, do you understand?

 

However sister if we can find a way of how not to be greedy then riba would be abolished automaticly. It is Muslaim schollars hired for dollars and corrupt Muslim leaders that is buying into this system. And the Muslims are like the youths in the cave, the youths representing the youngest religion Islam. ut this world has us in its grips and we cannot come away from money, we need it. I believe it is our duty as Muslims to find a way to Hallal the system of money whether it be paper or electronic, All has allowed this to go on so that we can find use in it and change it

 

Right I see your point. Like I have explained above, in the muslim village that he talks about, the money will circulate only in the muslim village therefore the poor will get a chance to become rich and the rich gets a chance to become poor unlike the the way the world is today where the rich stays permanently rich and the poor gets poorer and poorer. Unfortunately he hasn't produced a book yet on the topic of muslim village but I really hope he publishes one soon so I don't have to explain it lol.

 

As for energy and stuff, like mentioned in the Surah Kahf, we see that Allah Taala orders us to use the natural energy source, I am sure you read that part so I don;'t need to go in detail.

 

In his opinion he takes the youth fleeing away from the oppression as a sign of what we muslims have to do to preserve our faith and escape from such a godless society. I defintely agree with him on this because like he has also said not only will this make us stronger in faith and preserve our faith, our next generation will also have the proper Islam in them and will be ready to join the battlefield as warriors and Mujahideen to fight the evil oppressors.

 

Can you really think if Dajjal was here today, would our muslim ummah let alone our youth, will they really be ready to join the battlefield? How many of those in our muslim ummah have even had the courage to go and fight against the opressors in Palestine at the moment?

 

:sl:

Edited by world_footy_Gunner_laDy

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Thats right, but the problem is if you say you are in debt that already means you are giving it out on riba, because theres no one who is paying his debt and not paying it on interest as well.

 

:sl:

Edited by world_footy_Gunner_laDy

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Borrowing and lending money is not riba, but when we charge interest then it is riba

 

 

No brother that’s not correct. Interest is not riba Usury is riba! Heres an example, if I lend you $1000 today and you say that you can pay me back in 4 years and I then say ok by the time 4 years is up you owe me 1200 or 1100 or 1300. That’s not riba that’s business totaly halal. Why? Tell me if i give you 1000 today is that 1000 worth the same amount 4 years later?? If you borrowed 1000 dollars from me today and paid me back $1000 4 years later then you would be giving me less than what i gave you 4 years ago. You would be using me in fact you would be doing riba because your using money thats worth 1000 now but 4 years later that same 1000 is not the same( and i would be just as guilty unless im doing this for charity)

Now riba or usury would be if I told you that in 4 years time you now owe me 3000 or 4000 or 2500 that would be a ridiculous amount of interest, which is usury

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No brother that’s not correct. Interest is not riba Usury is riba! Heres an example, if I lend you $1000 today and you say that you can pay me back in 4 years and I then say ok by the time 4 years is up you owe me 1200 or 1100 or 1300. That’s not riba that’s business totaly halal.

 

I don't know about that bro, because in Islam it doesn't matter how much you borrow from someone, you have to give back the exact amount of money you borrowed anything else is considered riba. Thats why this modern society, this modern world, the goldless world order is corrupted. Thats why the paper money we are using is corrupted and has finally been considered haraam by some people who have done research on this.

 

Money in todays world have no value for gold. You can't even exhange money for gold like they used to back at the time of the invention of paper money was new. This is Dajjal's system, making sure that everyone is trapped in this web, that everyone abides by his law, the law that they call the most supreme far better that the law of God. This is why we call this a godless society which is trying to strip you away from religous beliefs.

 

An example -

 

Someone gives me 1000 dollars. I can buy a camel for 1000 dollars. I decide to keep it under my pillow. 10 years go by and I can only buy a chicken for a 1000 dollars. Another 10 years go by and I can only buy some sweets. Now the question is where has my money gone? Who has taken it? Where is it going?

 

Its these blood sucking predatory elite...

 

This sort of thing is what the scholar was talking about and teaching us about. I can't really explain it like him but I have tried my best.

Edited by world_footy_Gunner_laDy

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in Islam it doesn't matter how much you borrow from someone, you have to give back the exact amount of money you borrowed anything else is considered riba.

 

There is no way to do that. Inflation of money or deflation of money will always mean that the value has changed to some degree.

 

If you are saying we should set the prices of things and set the value of currency with no regard for the market, well, you can move to Zimbabwe where they tried that. No one will accept it, even the shops. Their money is thrown in the air like confetti.

 

Or would you like to go back to a strictly physical trade system and trade a goat for a goat?

Will you pay for your electricity with goats?

How much electricity is a goat worth?

Ten goats for a year of electricity?

What happens during a drought when all the goats the electric company owns die and the company has no goats to trade for the coal that runs the power generators? No electricty!

 

So, say that is fine with you, not having electricity will be the price you pay for Islam. The hospitals will need to shut down and your family members will die because they couldn't get medical care. How Islamic would that be?

 

All of that would be avoided if you used the modern financial system, which you say operates on Riba.

 

Thats why this modern society, this modern world, the goldless world order is corrupted.... Money in todays world have no value for gold. You can't even exhange money for gold like they used to back at the time of the invention of paper money was new.

 

Ummm. Yes you can exchange it for gold. The gold mining towns in the United States are the places that are doing the best in the whole country right now. People feel like gold is more stable than the American dollar.

 

Or are you saying that you can no longer exchange money for gold directly to the United States government, if that is the case you are putting a lot of faith in a secular government.

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salam.

 

inflation is a direct result of riba. stock markets and such also play a role in how much the dollar is worth.

 

if you gave me 1000 dollars, and expected me to give you 1500 back because of inflation, then you are acting like the bank. you might as well charge whatever the prime rate is.

 

HOWEVER, if i borrowed 1000 dollars from you, and later on 500 dollars was equal o the 1000 dollars you gave me, and i tried to pay you that 500 dollars, would you take it>

 

it is just a general question, not to pick anyone out.

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"Ummm. Yes you can exchange it for gold. The gold mining towns in the United States are the places that are doing the best in the whole country right now. People feel like gold is more stable than the American dollar.

 

Or are you saying that you can no longer exchange money for gold directly to the United States government, if that is the case you are putting a lot of faith in a secular government. "

 

i live in a gold mining community myself. this town is doing alright buisness-wise.

 

but they are not doing any better then before.

 

 

If all the gold magicly dissapeared from the canadian mint(or federal reserve), not a thing would change. money these days is cotton paper with a number stamped on it. this number apparently represents what it is worth in gold in weight. if that is true, why cant i go and get whatever amount of gold 20$ is worth in weight? and although gold is what basicly haved the western economy from collapsing a couple of month back alhamdulilah, inflation still rose, and the dollar still fell. if more forign countries are putting more money into our stoks(gold in this case) the dollar should, i think, get stronger.

 

i am not a stock broker or anything like that, so i could be wrong.

 

salam

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HOWEVER, if i borrowed 1000 dollars from you, and later on 500 dollars was equal o the 1000 dollars you gave me, and i tried to pay you that 500 dollars, would you take it?

 

Personally, yes, but I would think it mighty slimy of you not to pay me back the same number if your entire wealth had grown by 150%.

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I don't know about that bro, because in Islam it doesn't matter how much you borrow from someone, you have to give back the exact amount of money you borrowed anything else is considered riba. Thats why this modern society, this modern world, the goldless world order is corrupted. Thats why the paper money we are using is corrupted and has finally been considered haraam by some people who have done research on this.

 

Money in todays world have no value for gold. You can't even exhange money for gold like they used to back at the time of the invention of paper money was new. This is Dajjal's system,

 

 

No sister paper money is not haram or the dajjal system, Muslims are the ones who started using checks, we wrote everything down and we contracted alot o things. Point being that if you borrow money fron somebody then yes you shoul pay them back however you cannot neglect interest nor profit, now usary is wrong i agree. If someone gave you two goats to care for a male and a female and those goats had babies and those babies had babies and so on and so on till you have a huge herd of goats. Now if the person comes back to you in a number of years do you give him the same two goats or do you give him the whole herd?

 

Now if i loaned you two goats a male and a female and you then had a herd a few years later and i come to collect my goats do you give me the same male and female back or do you give me the same male and female back with a small portion of the herd??

 

If you give me the same goats back then you are practicing riba why? because you used my property to enhance your wealth and then instead of sharing some of that wealth you give me back the same stinking old goats? You have become rich off of my back you would have used me thats riba. Now if we agree that once you have a herd that you would give me a small share of the goats male and female then thats interest and profit and thats halal. Oh And if i say that i want half of the herd or more than half then thats riba.

 

Now put this in terms of paper money, if i give uyou $5 and 4 years later you give me back the same $5 then shame on you for practicing riba

 

 

 

An example -

 

Someone gives me 1000 dollars. I can buy a camel for 1000 dollars. I decide to keep it under my pillow. 10 years go by and I can only buy a chicken for a 1000 dollars. Another 10 years go by and I can only buy some sweets. Now the question is where has my money gone? Who has taken it? Where is it going?

 

Its these blood sucking predatory elite...

 

The blood sucking elite????????? But sister in your analogy YOU decided to keep your money under the pillow for ten years and of course the value 10 years later has dropped thats your fault. Same thing with the goats, get some goats male and female and put them under your pillow(good luck sleeping :sl: )and wait 10 years by then they would have lost the ability to produce baby goats, so your own hands would lead to your demise You cant blame the economy for progressin foward.

 

This sort of thing is what the scholar was talking about and teaching us about. I can't really explain it like him but I have tried my best.

 

I believe that the scholar had alot of good points however he missed alot of points as well all in all it was still good

 

 

salam.

 

inflation is a direct result of riba. stock markets and such also play a role in how much the dollar is worth.

 

if you gave me 1000 dollars, and expected me to give you 1500 back because of inflation, then you are acting like the bank. you might as well charge whatever the prime rate is.

 

no brother if its a few days then yes that is wrong but if its a few years then yes you owe me more than what i lent to you in the first place , the banks interest is riba because it is usary, they charge you interest that is crazy.

 

HOWEVER, if i borrowed 1000 dollars from you, and later on 500 dollars was equal o the 1000 dollars you gave me, and i tried to pay you that 500 dollars, would you take it>

 

it is just a general question, not to pick anyone out.

 

Of course I would take it. You know people use to leave their stuff with our Prophet and he used to increase their wealth for them, I would take the 500 but i also would know that your not to good at managing money uhhh any way thats a whole different topic forget i said that , yes yes i would take it

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salam.

 

i still fail to see how it is riba if the 500$ has the same value and buying power as the 1000$ you loaned to me. wouldent it all equal out?

 

for example, that 1000$ got me a loaf of bread(just an example)

 

then the 500$ later on woull still get me the same loaf of bread......aint it all the same.

 

 

unless you mean, with another 500 dollars i would be able to get another loaf of bread. so now i got 2 loafs of brad, and you got one?

 

ok i think i see now.

 

 

interesting.

 

salam.

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I think that your starting to get it brother, just remember that riba is usary, and if your practicing usary then that is haram , but interest is not riba, it only becomes riba when usary is attached to interest.

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No sister paper money is not haram or the dajjal system, Muslims are the ones who started using checks, we wrote everything down and we contracted alot o things. Point being that if you borrow money fron somebody then yes you shoul pay them back however you cannot neglect interest nor profit, now usary is wrong i agree. If someone gave you two goats to care for a male and a female and those goats had babies and those babies had babies and so on and so on till you have a huge herd of goats. Now if the person comes back to you in a number of years do you give him the same two goats or do you give him the whole herd?

 

The problem here is you still haven't understood the difference between real and fake money. You still believe that this paper money is valid but I hold the opposite view. The arguments or example you are using are part of the paper money system, it has nothing to do with real money.

 

The blood sucking elite????????? But sister in your analogy YOU decided to keep your money under the pillow for ten years and of course the value 10 years later has dropped thats your fault. Same thing with the goats, get some goats male and female and put them under your pillow(good luck sleeping :sl: )and wait 10 years by then they would have lost the ability to produce baby goats, so your own hands would lead to your demise You cant blame the economy for progressin foward.

 

First off, like I said I don't have much knowledge on this issue to continue on the discussion that is why I have put up this lecture so that we could have all understood what is exactly going.

 

Second thing I would like to point out is that bro, you are using example within the paper money system and I am using examples within the way real money works and outside of your system.

 

This is what I have to say regarding it -

 

This is a different example this time and try to look at it from my perspective,

 

Say my dad leaves me £10,000 after he dies. At that time I could buy a camel with that money yeah. Now I start using this money after 10 years alright. And when I do decide to use it, I find out that I cannot buy the camel instead I am only allowed to buy a chicken with this money. So the £10,000 is now equivalent to just £10. This is what we as humans have began to accept as money and how it works but this is not the way real money works.

 

This shows I have been ripped off! I have every right to have that amount of money that is worth of the camel not a chicken, in this case I can ask, where has my money gone??? This shows the corruption of the modern paper money that we accepted as real money.

 

Take this same case and apply it to the time before the invention of paper money, the time where gold/silver was real money.

 

Whether my dad leaves 10,000 gold/silver or more it will still be the same no matter how long time has passed by and thats the way real money works.

 

Real money is like I said - gold/ silver or in arabic dirhams/ dinars and etc. Why do you think in the Quran when the subject of money comes up Allah Taala uses the word Dirhams and Dinars and make us understand anything else from that is not real money. Paper money cannot be exhanged for gold anymore like the beginning time of the invention of the fake money this is because this was their plan all along, its no surprise.

 

This is the corruption we are living in if only we would understand. They are ripping us from our money we gain. We are the ones working for our survival and its them, those who control the banking system who are ripping us off from what we reap. Those in power are living from what we reap, try and understand that. They are taking or better saying, they are stealing our money. You call this fair? You call this a way to live your life? This is the trap we are in today and we are so blind but to continue living in such a corrupted system! This is how efficient they have made the system that we cannot escape from it nor do we realize it. They make you dress the way they want you to dress, they make you eat what they want you to eat, they make you learn what they want you to learn so much so that our new generation not all but most are already acting like wild animals - monkeys and donkeys. We think this is what we call life - we are so stupid and they themselves are laughing in our faces calling us 'stupid'. These same people are who I call 'the blood sucking predatory elite'.

Now let me ask you who controls the banking system of the world? The answer is too obvious...

 

This is why its time for the muslims to wake up and realize how blind we have been all this time.

Do we not see that this system only benefits them and we are still being treated like slaves.

 

Note - this is not a post directing on you directly twoswordsali but all of us.

 

One more question to you people, how do you explain this-

 

At the current time, we know the rich gets richer and the poor remains in poverty and destitution. In other words we can call it 'slave wages'.

 

Question is what is going on or why is this the reality of the world when they call their law, the most supreme, the most perfect?

 

:sl:

Edited by world_footy_Gunner_laDy

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:sl:

 

Interest and usury are both prohibited. Brother twoswordsali please refrain from voicing your opinion when it could lead you from commiting major sins and it is better for you to back up your statements with proof from the Quran.

 

I was just watching a different Sheikh Dr Zakir Naik on the subject of riba and he also confirms, evidence from the Quran that Riba is prohibited -

 

"it refers to both, usury as well as interest, irrespective whether the rate (interest) is small or big. They have both been prohibited in the Quran"

 

:sl:

Edited by world_footy_Gunner_laDy

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salam.

 

this argument is pointless anyways becasue 1) Allah tells us to give without measure. there are may hadieth and stories of people who gave away entire heards of cattle for the sake of Allah ta'ala. and 2) we give back what we take. one leaf of bread is one loaf of bread, it dosent matter if the loaf of brad that i gove away is of better quality then the one i got. its still a loaf of bread. and 3) its just kind and you get more reward. your good deeds come back to you anyways, so why not.

 

anyways my point earlier was to just try and understand the points brought across. bear in mind i would never pay back only half of what was given to me if the vale of my money was increased.

 

i belive an excelent example of this is the story of a man who, after working his days work, refused to take his share of the rice the farmer owed him becuse the quality was not good. so the farmer used it to feed his cattle. his cattle multiplied and over the years becasme quite a respectable heard. then the worker came back demanding what was owed to him. the farmer, after using the rice and not having any left, offered his cattle which the worker promply took. he took every single cattle.. Allah subhanallah ta'ala was so pleased with him for this that he saved him from a long painfull death due to starvation.

 

indeed how dose one sac of rice even compare to a heard of cattle? there is no comparason, yet that is what was owed to the worker at the end, since the farmer got rich off another persons hard work.

 

salam.

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salam.

 

this argument is pointless anyways becasue 1) Allah tells us to give without measure. there are may hadieth and stories of people who gave away entire heards of cattle for the sake of Allah ta'ala. and 2) we give back what we take. one leaf of bread is one loaf of bread, it dosent matter if the loaf of brad that i gove away is of better quality then the one i got. its still a loaf of bread. and 3) its just kind and you get more reward. your good deeds come back to you anyways, so why not.

 

salam.

 

:sl:

 

The argument is pointless to you because you still failed to undesrtand that there is a huge difference between real money and paper money.

 

i belive an excelent example of this is the story of a man who, after working his days work, refused to take his share of the rice the farmer owed him becuse the quality was not good. so the farmer used it to feed his cattle. his cattle multiplied and over the years becasme quite a respectable heard. then the worker came back demanding what was owed to him. the farmer, after using the rice and not having any left, offered his cattle which the worker promply took. he took every single cattle.. Allah subhanallah ta'ala was so pleased with him for this that he saved him from a long painfull death due to starvation.

 

Maybe you can explain how your example explains the difference?

 

:sl:

Edited by world_footy_Gunner_laDy

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The problem here is you still haven't understood the difference between real and fake money. You still believe that this paper money is valid but I hold the opposite view. The arguments or example you are using are part of the paper money system, it has nothing to do with real money.

First off, like I said I don't have much knowledge on this issue to continue on the discussion that is why I have put up this lecture so that we could have all understood what is exactly going.

 

real money fake money?? money is what ever is used for trade be it gold silver coal ect ect

 

 

This is a different example this time and try to look at it from my perspective,

 

Say my dad leaves me £10,000 after he dies. At that time I could buy a camel with that money yeah. Now I start using this money after 10 years alright. And when I do decide to use it, I find out that I cannot buy the camel instead I am only allowed to buy a chicken with this money. So the £10,000 is now equivalent to just £10. This is what we as humans have began to accept as money and how it works but this is not the way real money works.

 

This shows I have been ripped off! I have every right to have that amount of money that is worth of the camel not a chicken, in this case I can ask, where has my money gone??? This shows the corruption of the modern paper money that we accepted as real money.

 

Take this same case and apply it to the time before the invention of paper money, the time where gold/silver was real money.

 

Whether my dad leaves 10,000 gold/silver or more it will still be the same no matter how long time has passed by and thats the way real money works.

 

no this does not show corrupion, and gold and silver fluctuate in their value, even this is not considered "real money" back in the day animals, food, were used as money, then precious metals became a thing that was sought after, then trade for the precious metals became a way of commerce, and this is how they got their value.Paper Money used to be backed by Gold then we went on to a new type of system where it wasnt backed by gold, SO?? Now the problem comes when we practice usary with whatever we deem as money.It would be very silly to try and hold onto money expecting that it would be able to purchase the same items for the same amount 10 to 20 years later. The value of things go up and thats how things are, they was that way back in the Prophets time and their this way now. Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) was Kadijahs best employee, he was the best busniess man, he brought her great profits and wealth, He did not practice usary. Tell me is a gold coin with Alexanda the great on it worth the same amount as a gold coin today (same size and shape) with George bush on it ??

 

Real money is like I said - gold/ silver or in arabic dirhams/ dinars and etc. Why do you think in the Quran when the subject of money comes up Allah Taala uses the word Dirhams and Dinars and make us understand anything else from that is not real money. Paper money cannot be exhanged for gold anymore like the beginning time of the invention of the fake money this is because this was their plan all along, its no surprise.

 

 

dinar or denarius is an acient roman coin the value of which has varied at different times and in nations and places so even the Quran is showing us a system of money that changes frome time o time, there is nothing wrong with this, but usary (riba) theres a hell of alot wrong with this.

 

This is the corruption we are living in if only we would understand. They are ripping us from our money we gain. We are the ones working for our survival and its them, those who control the banking system who are ripping us off from what we reap. Those in power are living from what we reap, try and understand that. They are taking or better saying, they are stealing our money. You call this fair? You call this a way to live your life? This is the trap we are in today and we are so blind but to continue living in such a corrupted system! This is how efficient they have made the system that we cannot escape from it nor do we realize it. They make you dress the way they want you to dress, they make you eat what they want you to eat, they make you learn what they want you to learn so much so that our new generation not all but most are already acting like wild animals - monkeys and donkeys. We think this is what we call life - we are so stupid and they themselves are laughing in our faces calling us 'stupid'. These same people are who I call 'the blood sucking predatory elite'.

Now let me ask you who controls the banking system of the world? The answer is too obvious...

 

sister people do understand, and yes we all know that the banking system is wrong and that they are practicing usary, we need to develop the same system that Muhammad(pbuh) developed, because in todays time you nor me nor any scholar sheik can escape the use of paper money, in fact to develop a system is going to take the use of vast amounts of paper money. Our job as Muslims is to halal the system and get rid of the usary.

 

 

 

 

:sl:

 

Interest and usury are both prohibited. Brother twoswordsali please refrain from voicing your opinion when it could lead you from commiting major sins and it is better for you to back up your statements with proof from the Quran.

 

I was just watching a different Sheikh Dr Zakir Naik on the subject of riba and he also confirms, evidence from the Quran that Riba is prohibited -

 

"it refers to both, usury as well as interest, irrespective whether the rate (interest) is small or big. They have both been prohibited in the Quran"

 

:sl:

The Sheikh is right riba is wrong but to say that intrest is riba is wrong, interest can become riba yes, but interest is not riba, I think your misunderstanding Sheikh Dr, Zakir Naik. Look...The Quran prohibites Usary (riba), interest is a charge for a loan, a percentage of the amount loaned, Now what better way to back up explaining interest than using the Quran. The day of Judgement is called yal mid deen, the day of religion, or THE DAY OF PAYING UP THE DEBT!! This life is on loan to us from Allah and when we die we have to pay up the debt. How we live our life is the interest charge for the Loan that Allah has given us, Allah charges us interest on the loan of life in this world, and if we fail when its time to pay up the debt then we know where we will end up. But Allah gives us everything we need to succeed in thelife that He has given us He has not made the interest riba (usary) he has given us freedom and abundance.

 

So yes riba is wrong and interest with riba is wrong. Again if you have a camel male and female and i loan them to you so you can get some milk and some children from them, i have every right to say once the children is born i would like a portion of the children and the mother and father back, You would have become wealthy and i would have increased in my wealth. Islamic system keeps the rich richer and makes the poor rich it doesnot make the poor rich and the rich less richer. That is interest halal interest now riba would be me giving you the two camels and taking the 90% of the children and the mother and father back and still taking from you once those children are grown and having babies this interest is riba and it is wrong.

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:sl:

 

Brother twoswordali, do you have any scholarly writings to support your definition of the word Riba?

 

Let me add that when the word "usury" was first used, it was used as a synonym for interest. It refered to any increase on a loan. However when fixed interest rates began to emerge worldwide, usury in legal terms was used to refer to any increase that is above the normal rate. However, usury still IS defined as plain old interest in non-legal settings. I.e. Religious writings.

 

Riba has always been defined as interest since the dawn of Islam. I could quote any number of scholars who'll define it as exactly interest (and I will if you demand it) but I'd also like to see who you're basing your interpretation on.

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weather or not its real money or fake money(like the federal reserve) its still used to buy stuff with it. to us, it still holds value and without it we woulent be able to pay for this internet access.

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:sl:

 

Brother twoswordali, do you have any scholarly writings to support your definition of the word Riba?

 

sister you and i both know that it does not matter what scholar you qoute if one disagrees with ones logic then it makes no difference where it comes from, if i tell you that i got this from a scholar that you respect and all of a sudden you say oh ok that makes sense then to me that makes no sense. Why do we always ask what scholar did this come from or where did you get that from when we disagree with the logic in the first place. How could a name all of a sudden ease your uneasyness???? And if its froma scholar that you dont follow then you will be backed 100% with original doubt in the first place. But if its from a scholar that you respect then you can see and understand what im saying?? I dont wish to argue or go back and forth endlessly with whos scholar is right or wrong, if you disagree with what I said ok then AlhumduAllah lets discuss it

 

 

Let me add that when the word "usury" was first used, it was used as a synonym for interest. It refered to any increase on a loan. However when fixed interest rates began to emerge worldwide, usury in legal terms was used to refer to any increase that is above the normal rate. However, usury still IS defined as plain old interest in non-legal settings. I.e. Religious writings.

 

Yes it is refered to any increase on a loan. If you add and increase on a loan that by Islamic terms is not only interest it is also usary(riba) Look at the example that i gave with the camel

 

person 1.Omar has a sheep male and female

person 2.Ali has no sheep and is poor

ALI asks Omar for a loan of the male and female sheep

Omar loans Ali the sheep for 4 years and after 4 years wants back the male and female sheep and a small portion of the herd sheep

Ali agrees after 4 years has a good flock of sheep

Omar comes to collect on the loan and takes back the male and female sheep and a small portion of the herd, leaving ALI with a herd of sheep and in a position of wealth,

Omar has now increased his wealth and has now become richer

Ali has now increased his wealth and went from poor to rich.

 

Omar charged ALi interest on the loan this is busniess this is not riba!!!

 

Riba or usary would be if Omar after 4 years took back the the two sheep and half or 90% of the the herd leaving Ali with male sheep causing Ali to come back to Omar to breed sheep and the transaction keep going on. ALI never really becomes wealthy he aquires some wealth but not enought to susstain him and has to go back continusly toOmar who by this time has increased in wealth by a huge margin.

 

Omar is charging interest on ALI loan and he has added usary to the loan this is haram this is riba

 

 

Riba has always been defined as interest since the dawn of Islam. I could quote any number of scholars who'll define it as exactly interest (and I will if you demand it) but I'd also like to see who you're basing your interpretation on.

 

If you charge someone on a loan yes that is interest Riba is not interest go and read or even ask those scholars and see what they say, Riba is usary outrageous interest on a loan is riba Any way, i see this as ging back and forth, do you disagree with what i said in the last post of what Allah says in the Quran and how our life is a debt??

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