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Muttaqun

Israel's Next Step

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Asalaamu Alykum

i have read it before, like a long time ago, its possible i may be wrong, but i will definetly find out and get back to you.

 

Wasalaam

 

Salam,

 

All the israelis who are the israeli Army, Airforce, and Navy reservists or members of the israeli forces and israeli police and all the israeli civilians who serve or conspire with the israeli forces or support the israeli regime of terror are the legitimate targets.

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PropellerAds
ASA brothers and sisters there will not be a israeli take over state it will not happen, all that is happening now is laying a foundation so that when the Muslims are victorious they will never forget what they done. We will forgive but we will never forget, and they will never every be in a position over the Muslims because their history will follow them. When proper Islamic states are established that greedy murderous mind set of alot of those Jews will never get into a position of athority, neither will the muslims accept a corrupt government, and that time is comming soon. If you cant see gog and mogog and the return of Christ now, then you are blind(thats another subject),

 

however to bring light to this conversation, let us look at those muslims over there in Gaza and "israel". Do you know that the muslims over there, that their birth rate is way higher than that of the jews??? In israel the muslim birth rate is far higher than that of the jews. Do you know that it is predicted that in about 2 to 3 decades from now the muslims will be the majority over there? Even with the way israel is set up now with their democracy when the muslims become the majority guess what??LAWS CHANGE!!

 

And all places surrounding "israel" will be millions of muslims, and there wont be nothing any world super power can do to stop that!! israel the one eyed beast with tunnel visions of global domination will be wiped out with the same people that they want to murder!! This is why they attack and kill children becaus these are the same children that will crush them by giving birth to leaders. It will happen and its going to happen and thers nothing Those filthy jews and dirty muslims and christians, can do to stop it. It is comming this is facts!!!!

 

The israeli regime of terror and 6 million Zionist terrorists in israel know that they are not afraid of the 300-400 million Arabs because Arabs are not united and they love the worldly life so much that they are afraid to die or carry out Jihad against israel. After all, there are many highly hypocritical Arab leaders who conspire or cooperate with the israeli regime of terror by becoming Zionist slaves.

 

The Zionists are not afraid of 300-400 million Arabs because they can simply carry out The israeli Holocaust Against the Arab and Muslim People to wipe out Arabs by using the US-made Wapons of mass-destruction. Even the racist Zionist leaders say:

 

"The Arabs are Donkeys and Beasts"

 

"The nation of israel is pure and the Arabs are a nation of donkeys. They are an evil disaster, an evil devil, and a nasty affliction. The Arabs are donkeys and beasts. They want to take our girls. They are endowed with true filthiness. There is pure and there is impure and they are impure."

 

--Rabbi David Batzri, head of the Magen David Yeshiva in Jerusalem [israeli newspaper Haaretz, March 21, 2006]

 

"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail."

Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]

 

All we Muslims need now are the Muslims who obey Allah and His messenger to carry out JIHAD to overthrow the hypocritical leaders of Arabs, establish an Islamic government and destroy the barbaric israeli regime of terror.

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All we Muslims need now are the Muslims who obey Allah and His messenger to destroy the barbaric israeli regime of terror.

 

It was the prophet who sought refuge with the Christians and received the message that Muslims should both support and work with "the people of the book."

 

Can a Muslim man not marry a jew?

 

Can a Muslim not deal with a Christian?

 

Is diplomacy doomed to failure simply because Muslims will only ever accept Muslim ideas, while rejecting what the Prophet may have considered?

 

Seems so. Please prove me wrong.

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Asalaamu Alykum

 

Salam,

 

All the israelis who are the israeli Army, Airforce, and Nazy reservists or members of the israeli forces and israeli police and all the israeli civilians who serve or conspire with the israeli forces or support the israeli regime of terror are the legitimate targets.

 

israeli civilians could include rabbis or even women and children who support israel and what they are doing, yet we cannot kill them even if we had the chance. True, they are the targets but not the targets for aggression and physical violence. Violence can only be used against the enemy's army.

 

PS: okay i was looking for the reference but i could not find it, i read it in this forum and i looked through every subforum which could potentially be in, but i could not find it, i woulnt have made it up just to prove my point. Astagarullah. Yet i could be wrong. If i am wrong, then please forgive me.

 

 

Wasalaam

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Asalaamu Alykum

israeli civilians could include rabbis or even women and children who support israel and what they are doing, yet we cannot kill them even if we had the chance. True, they are the targets but not the targets for aggression and physical violence. Violence can only be used against the enemy's army.

 

PS: okay i was looking for the reference but i could not find it, i read it in this forum and i looked through every subforum which could potentially be in, but i could not find it, i woulnt have made it up just to prove my point. Astagarullah. Yet i could be wrong. If i am wrong, then please forgive me.

Wasalaam

 

W/salam,

 

If the israelis stop supporting the israeli regime of terror, it would stop functioning. On the contrary, the israeli civilians support the israeli regime of terror so they are the legitimate targets because their support enable that israeli regime of terror and Zionist terrorists to carry out the brutal and barbaric israeli holocaust of Palestinian people and Muslims, the illegal israeli invasion of Palestine, Lebanon etc. In other word, the israeli civilians have innocent Palestinian and Muslim blood on their dirty hands. And there are some israeli writers, Zionist propagandists, Zionist teachers, Zionist film makers etc who invent fairy tales to frame and demonize Islam and Muslims to pit the world against innocent and defenseless Muslims and Palestinian people.

 

And there are some Rabbis who promote the israeli genocide of Palestinian people and Muslims. Haven't you read the racist statements made by the racist Zionist rabbis? Here is one of racist statement made by a pathetic Rabbi:

 

"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail."

Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]

 

Recently, israel's Deputy Defence Minister Matan Vilnai threatened to inflict a greater holocaust on Palestinians. Similarly, a growing number of rabbis associated with the two largest religious camps in israel, the Haredi ultra-Orthodox religious sector and the national Zionist religious sector, issuing one edict after the other, permitting soldiers to murder at will Palestinian civilians, including children, on the grounds that in war all among the enemy population ought to be treated as combatants, including children.

 

One might imagine that this is exaggerated, but it is not. Recently Rabbi Yisrael Rosen, director of the Tsomet Institute, a religious seminary attended by israeli settlers in the West Bank, declared: "All of the Palestinians must be killed; men, women, infants, and even their beasts."

 

Please remember that israeli women and teenagers are the active israeli Army, Airforce and Navy reservists who use to terrorize and massacre innocent and defenseless Palestinian people and Muslims. And these so-called israeli women and children have terrorized Gaza and massacred 2000 innocent and defenseless Palestinian babies, children, women etc in Gaza. They even violate and destroy Masjids, Qur'an etc.

 

And the illegal Zionist settlers including their wives and children also rob Palestinian people of their land and farms and attack, terrorize, murder or massacre innocent and defenseless Palestinian people.

 

And we also know that israeli civilians cooperate with the israeli forces and the israeli regime of terror to build high concrete walls to confine Palestinian people in the large israeli concentration camps etc so that the israeli regime may starve Palestinian people to death or carry out the israeli genocide of Palestinian people easily.

 

Last year, Richard Falk, a renowned American Jewish professor of international law and practice, wrote an article entitled "Slouching toward a Palestinian holocaust," in which he warned that israel was moving towards the perpetration of a holocaust against the Palestinians. And the fact the israeli criminals and terrorists have been carrying out the brutal and barbaric israeli genocide of Palestinian people since 1948.

 

The israeli political, military, religious leaders and civilians have openly called for genocide of the Palestinians so the Zionist criminals are the legitimate targets! The undeniable fact is israel is an illegitimate state that is built on blood, murder, theft and lies by the corrupt, immoral, barbaric and sadistic Zionist terrorists and criminals who carry out the israeli holocaust against Palestinian people and Muslims so that they could force the innocent and defenseless Palestinian people and Muslims out of Palestine.

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Salaam my friends,

 

in response to Ajmal:

 

You asked if we ever hear postive things in the media about Islam, I do. I can't speak for the rest of the world but in the UK where I live I try and read a variety of newspapers (mainly the Independant and the Gaurdian) and get a lot of my news from the BBC website or the BBC news, and I do hear the occassional positive story about Islam, I would say just as often as I hear a positive story about Christianity or Judaism (in fact I would suggest that the BBC and the secular media in general are guilty of portraying religion in a very negative way, but no particular religion more than others) I think I hear a lot more sensational stories about Catholic priests denying the holocaust (to use a recent example) than I do about Muslim extremists. I hope that is a fair answer.

 

Secondly you said that 9/11 and 7/7 were acts of the American and British government murdering their own people and blaming it on 'you' (by which I assume you mean all muslims). I'm sorry what? I don't want to be patronising here but that is a ridiculous point of view, even if you believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy (which a disturingly large number of people do considering the absurd complexity of the plan the American government would have had to put into action to pull it off themselves) then what was the point of the 7/7 bombings? What did the British government get out of it? It didn't change peoples opinion of the war in Iraq, it didn't get them any more support as a goverment all it did was kill a lot of innocent people. I think your suggestion cheapens the memory of those that died and is offensive as well as ludicrous.

 

I'd also point out that no one blamed it on all of Islam, I can't speak for America as I don't live there, but here in the UK we are well aware that there is a bir difference between the Islamic fundamentalists of Al-Quada and Islam as a whole. You went on to talk about how Isreal hates you and wants rid of all Muslims, I would argue that it is is a very small proportion of Isreal that wants this, unfortunately disporportionately represented at the political level. It is the Zionist extremists as well as the Muslin ones who are the enemies of peace. I travelled around various parts of the Middle East last summer, including Isreal and parts of the West Bank and very few of the palestinians or Isrealis I spoke to wanted a victory either way, most ordinary people just want to live in peace. It is when we let extremists gain power that we find ourselves in a position of perpetual warfare. Peace can be realised when the voice of reason from both sides is allowed to be heard.

 

Finally you asked me what I thought of the future as a Christian. Firstly I would say that God tells us that he does not wish us to know the future, it is for him to know and not us. We know of the rough events of the end of time as described in Revelations, but I personally do not believe we are living in end times. So I cannot answer your question as I do not know, I hope that some sense will emerge and that peace will be established, but I fear that the extremists will triumph and the war will spread and many thousands will die. As a Christian I believe that Jesus will return and from that point life as we know it shall be totally transformed.

 

In response to Muttaqun:

 

I am glad that you only view the Zionists who are your enemies, however you contradict yourself immediately afterward by stating that Isreal does not seek peace but seeks to exterminate all the Muslims! Surely its Zionists not Isreal as a whole! As I said to Ajmal, I think it is by far only the minority of Isrealis who seek the death of all Muslims, my experience was that the majority want peace. I agree that the election of the right wing party is a worrying development, but I think it represents a lacking belief in the possibility of peace rahter than the desire for one. I think the Isreali's have turned to extreme politics because they don't see moderate ones achieving any kind of solution. Either way you're right it is a distrubing result and I am deeply concerned about what it means for the future of the region.

 

On the positive side, if Hamas and Fatah can reconcile their differences I think that would be a very positive step (as they seem to be on the verge of doing.) It would certainly improve the Palestinians position in the International Community which would hopefully lead to more pressure on israel.

 

Lastly you asked me if someone was attacking my family and my house was being destroyed would I defend myself, to which of course the answer is yes. However I would make a clear distinction between defense and attack. Defending Palestinains and Gaza is very different from mounting attacks upon israel, the rocket attacks which continue on israel (which seem to achieve very litte in any case, very rarely killing the odd civillian) are exactly that, attacks. Yes you can argue that attack is the best form of defense blah blah but lets face it these are hardly destablising the Isreali millitary, they are representative of the pretty minimal armament of Hamas (making the war all the more disproportionate, but thats another issue) and don't do anything to prevent attacks on Palestinians, but instead provoke more such attacks. I would defend myself yes, I would not attack the civillians of the nation whose solides attacked me. Stop the rocket attacks and the Palestinians will be in a much better political position, if all they are doing is defending themselves then the International community will be outraged by any Isreali attack, and public support for such attacks will soon fade in israel. israel views itself as a nation under attack surrounded by potential enemies, if that viewpoint can be altered then maybe they will return to diplomacy.

 

Can I also ask, where does the greeting Salaam actually come from, is it a cultural thing or a muslim thing? Either way maybe we are missing the point by saying it all the time, and then advocating attacks and war!

 

Peace and God's blessings my freinds,

 

Richard

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Stop the rocket attacks and the Palestinians will be in a much better political position, if all they are doing is defending themselves then the International community will be outraged by any Isreali attack, and public support for such attacks will soon fade in israel. israel views itself as a nation under attack surrounded by potential enemies, if that viewpoint can be altered then maybe they will return to diplomacy.

 

Well, this is all good apart from the fact that it doesn't take into consideration why did the rocket fire start in the first place. It started after israel broke the ceasefire and, most importantly, it started after long, deprived months of an economic blocade which would drive even the most patient of people into extremes. You can always make Hamas seem like the bad party if you start looking at the situation from the moment Hamas decided to fire rockets and thus throw the ball into their court.

 

The Internation community is outraged, for example, in the UN general secretary, but it hasn't achieved much. A good start would be to take israel to the war tribunal to see if they commited war crimes during the course of th war...

Edited by Younes Ibn Abd' al-Aziz

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Richard555,

 

I have read your baseless statement above and I find that you are a biased ignorant man for making the nonsensical statement above.

 

The fact is the 9/11 and 7/1 were carried out by Mossad agents who cooperated with CIA, MI5 and MI6 to blame, frame and demonize Muslims and Muslim countries. Muslims had nothing to do with the 9/11 and 7/7 because Muslims gain nothing from them. It is the Zionists and Zionism who gain so much from the 9/11 and 7/7 by pitting the world against innocent Muslims. I will be glad to debate with you on the 9/11 and 7/7. The fact is innocent Muslims were framed and tortured by the US regime and UK regime so that they would admit to the crime that they had nothing to with:

 

Susan. J. Crawford is the top Bush administration official overseeing the military trials of terrorist suspects held at the U.S. prison in Cuba. She told The Washington Post that the United States tortured a Saudi man in 2002. The legal implications of the treatment prevented her from bringing him to trial, Crawford said.

 

The case of Mohammed al-Qahtani, whom officials have claimed was to have been the "20th hijacker" on 9/11, illustrates the legal and logistical trouble ahead for President-elect Barack Obama, who plans to order the closure of the stigmatized prison his first week on the job.

 

"We tortured Qahtani," Crawford said, making her the first senior Bush administration official to say that aggressive interrogation techniques had crossed the line.

 

Source: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetabcnews.go(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Politics/wireStory?id=6643535"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetabcnews.go(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Politics/wireStory?id=6643535[/url]

 

Hamas is elected by the majority of Palestinian people to become the new government of Palestine through a fair 2006 democratic election so Hamas may use force to defend Palestine to stop the barbaric Zionist aggression according to the International Law etc. We all know that Zionist criminals and terrorists and the israeli regime of terror have been terrorizing Palestine and innocent Palestinian people since 1948. And the Zionists also provoke a confrontaion by attacking Gaza etc so Hamas has its right to make a counter-attack by firing rockets into the illegitimate israel.

 

You say (I quote) "Stop the rocket attacks and the Palestinians will be in a much better political position, if all they are doing is defending themselves then the International community will be outraged by any Isreali attack, and public support for such attacks will soon fade in israel. israel views itself as a nation under attack surrounded by potential enemies, if that viewpoint can be altered then maybe they will return to diplomacy."

 

Are you joking? You must be a joker. The fact is the israeli regime of terror and Zionist terrorists have been violating the International Law etc by attacking, invading and occupying Palestine illegally and terrorizing, torturing, raping, murdering and massacring the defenseless and innocent Palestinian people since 1948. The Zionists even defy the countless UN resolutions against israel.

 

The Zionists are not interested to make peace because the Zionists are the barbaric war criminals and warmongers:

 

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum"

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You asked if we ever hear postive things in the media about Islam, I do. I can't speak for the rest of the world but in the UK where I live I try and read a variety of newspapers (mainly the Independant and the Gaurdian) and get a lot of my news from the BBC website or the BBC news, and I do hear the occassional positive story about Islam, I would say just as often as I hear a positive story about Christianity or Judaism (in fact I would suggest that the BBC and the secular media in general are guilty of portraying religion in a very negative way, but no particular religion more than others) I think I hear a lot more sensational stories about Catholic priests denying the holocaust (to use a recent example) than I do about Muslim extremists. I hope that is a fair answer.

 

Alright, no problem, I agree with you on that case.

 

Secondly you said that 9/11 and 7/7 were acts of the American and British government murdering their own people and blaming it on 'you' (by which I assume you mean all muslims). I'm sorry what? I don't want to be patronising here but that is a ridiculous point of view, even if you believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy (which a disturingly large number of people do considering the absurd complexity of the plan the American government would have had to put into action to pull it off themselves) then what was the point of the 7/7 bombings? What did the British government get out of it? It didn't change peoples opinion of the war in Iraq, it didn't get them any more support as a goverment all it did was kill a lot of innocent people. I think your suggestion cheapens the memory of those that died and is offensive as well as ludicrous.

 

But I disagree completely on this case my friend. It seems as though you haven't done enough homework on this subject. There are too many evidences to prove that 9/11 was an inside job. Planes crashing at the top of a building doesn't bring the whole towers down, thats complete crap. As for 7/7 bombings, I know truth is bitter, but its about time you wake up my friend. Here is a complete investigated documents of the 'Report of the Official Account of the Bombings in London on 7th July' from the Home Office ten months after the events.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetjulyseventh.co.uk/july-7-mind-the-gaps-part-1.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetjulyseventh.co.uk/july-7-mind-t...aps-part-1.html[/url]

 

What did the British government get out of it?

 

Tell you truth, believe it or not but this is the best form of controlling your own people. When fear is created in the hearts of citizens in a country they then turn to their leaders for support and protection and ready to accept anything they say which in this case helps those elite to carry on their secret agenda. You defintely need to do some homework here as well.

 

I will pm you with a list of useful websites, articles and videos don't worry. I don't want to spam this post.

 

 

I'd also point out that no one blamed it on all of Islam, I can't speak for America as I don't live there, but here in the UK we are well aware that there is a bir difference between the Islamic fundamentalists of Al-Quada and Islam as a whole.

 

Really? Whether or not they actually put the word 'Islam', from all the reportings on the media, it was clear what their main message was. I don't need to go into detail in this.

 

You went on to talk about how Isreal hates you and wants rid of all Muslims, I would argue that it is is a very small proportion of Isreal that wants this, unfortunately disporportionately represented at the political level. It is the Zionist extremists as well as the Muslin ones who are the enemies of peace. I travelled around various parts of the Middle East last summer, including Isreal and parts of the West Bank and very few of the palestinians or Isrealis I spoke to wanted a victory either way, most ordinary people just want to live in peace. It is when we let extremists gain power that we find ourselves in a position of perpetual warfare. Peace can be realised when the voice of reason from both sides is allowed to be heard.

 

Sorry I should have made it more clear when I said 'they'. I never meant israel, I meant those people in power. Those 120 elite who control the whole world. Those same who attend most of the Biderlderg meetings. Those Palestinians who you came in contact with know that it is probably very unlikely for them to gain victory over their opponents which would be no surprise of their hunger for peace instead of more war between them and israel.

 

We know of the rough events of the end of time as described in Revelations, but I personally do not believe we are living in end times.

 

What are the rough events mentioned in the Revelations? Could you elaborate on that please, if you don't mind because I don't know much of it? Also why do you believe this is not the end of times?

 

 

So I cannot answer your question as I do not know, I hope that some sense will emerge and that peace will be established, but I fear that the extremists will triumph and the war will spread and many thousands will die. As a Christian I believe that Jesus will return and from that point life as we know it shall be totally transformed.

 

Why do christians believe he will return and what will his mission be?

 

Also what do you know of the antichrist?

 

:sl:

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To ######,

 

first of all can I just say that I joined this discussion group for healthy intellectual debate, there is no need to be rude. Feel free to debate with me any day, sorry if I disagree with you but that doesn't make me ignorant.

 

Do you have any evidence at all for your claims re: 9/11 and 7/7? All you've produced so far is American official that admitted that a 9/11 suspect was tortured after 9/11. If you read that news article it clearly states that she admitting to torturing him in 2002. So yes ok they tortured him and thats bad, but that doesn't have any bearing on the perpetrators of 9/11. They tortured him for information, not to get him to go back in time and commit 9/11, or are you suggesting they tortured him to get him to blame it on muslims? There is tons of evidence to suggest that it was Al-Quada (including videos of them taking responsiblity for both attacks), where is your evidence that it was carried out by anyone else?

 

If you can provide significant evidence then I will happily retract my statements, my views are subject to the evidence placed before me and are as such subject to change. Until you produce such evidence though I am happy to carry on living in 'ignorance'.

 

Regaring your second point, yes Hamas are the democractically elected party in the Palestine but Hitler was the democratically elected Prime Minster of Germany. I'm not comparing Hamas to the Nazis (please be very clear on that point!) I'm merely stating that being democratically elected doesn't give you the right to do whatever you want.

 

Anyway thats by the by, you are right Hamas are the domocratically elected party and that does give them the mandate to defend Palastine using force if needs be. You clearly missed my point though, my point was that there is nothing wrong with defending yourself, there is something wrong with attacking. Now the problem here is not whether it is morally right to attack israel or not (I would argue it isn't, but as I say thats not the point) the point is, it is constructive to the situation to do so?

 

What do Hamas rocket attacks achieve? They occassionally kill a civillian, very rarely they actually injure or kill millitary personel. They do not in any way prevent israel raining down bombs/rockets into Palestine, in fact they provoke them.

 

I agree that israel's conduct has been appaling pretty much since its conception as a nation. It has been guilty of so many different appalling acts and I am well aware that as a nation it has had the most UN resolutions passes against it (and as you said, has ignored the most). Lets get this straight: I am not a supporter of Isreal. Every image that crosses at the top of this screen touches me deeply, I have cried many tears for the Palestinian people. But having said that, I am not a supporter of its destruction either. I am a supporter of peace. My desire for the region is for these killings to stop, and no more civillians to be murdered, israeli or Palestinian. If anyone's desire is for it to be rid of Jews (or muslims) then we are clearly not going to agree.

 

Isreal have done terrible, inexcusable things. But visiting these things back on them will not help. Once again; I am not arguing about whether it is morally right to attack Isreal I am simply stating what I see as the road to peace. I hope that we can all agree that is the road we want to be on.

 

I understand that many people reading this will disagree with me, thats fine as I said I appreciate a healthy debate. Lets try and do it in a less aggressive way though guys, I'm not gonna insult anyone that disagrees with me so please return the favour.

 

May god bless you and may we grow in knowledge and understanding of each other my friends,

 

peace

 

Richard

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Asalaamu Alykum

 

W/salam,

 

If the israelis stop supporting the israeli regime of terror, it would stop functioning. On the contrary, the israeli civilians support the israeli regime of terror so they are the legitimate targets because their support enable that israeli regime of terror and Zionist terrorists to carry out the brutal and barbaric israeli holocaust of Palestinian people and Muslims, the illegal israeli invasion of Palestine, Lebanon etc. In other word, the israeli civilians have innocent Palestinian and Muslim blood on their dirty hands. And there are some israeli writers, Zionist propagandists, Zionist teachers, Zionist film makers etc who invent fairy tales to frame and demonize Islam and Muslims to pit the world against innocent and defenseless Muslims and Palestinian people.

 

And there are some Rabbis who promote the israeli genocide of Palestinian people and Muslims. Haven't you read the racist statements made by the racist Zionist rabbis?

 

Brother i totaly agree with you, anyone who is supporting the israeli campaign is the target. But if they are not the physical army then we should be attacking them via financial, political or social means, not by killing them. I know how much terror they cause and how much innocent blood they spill from their propoganda, support and money but its not the Islamic way to kill them as well, to avenge their deaths. We can only kill those who are physically attacking our lands, who are actually physically in Palestine killing innocent people. The Prophet sallalahu alahi wasalaam avoided bloodshed at all costs, if it were to occur it would hve to be the last choice, we should follow his example, i know its very hard but it is the right thing.

 

I am glad that you only view the Zionists who are your enemies, however you contradict yourself immediately afterward by stating that Isreal does not seek peace but seeks to exterminate all the Muslims! Surely its Zionists not Isreal as a whole!

 

I'm sorry if you misunderstood but whenever i say israel i mean the people in power, the government who is instigating this attack on muslims.

 

Stop the rocket attacks and the Palestinians will be in a much better political position, if all they are doing is defending themselves then the International community will be outraged by any Isreali attack, and public support for such attacks will soon fade in israel. israel views itself as a nation under attack surrounded by potential enemies, if that viewpoint can be altered then maybe they will return to diplomacy.

 

[isreal have done terrible, inexcusable things. But visiting these things back on them will not help. Once again; I am not arguing about whether it is morally right to attack Isreal I am simply stating what I see as the road to peace. I hope that we can all agree that is the road we want to be on.

 

I also dont agree on Hamas firing rockets into israel, killling innocent people. There is no excuse for that. However i dont accept the fact that if Hamas stopped, Isreal will also. The zionists are fullly determined to gain more land, its thier ultimate goal. It does not matter if the enemy wants peace or anything like that. They will always just accuse Hamas and palestinians, as an excuse to attack. If its not rocket attacks, then its that israeli prisoner in Hamas'hands, if its not then its always some terrorist plot to dismantle Isrel's "democratic and peaceful" regime. The story just continues while muslims suffer. Its injustice at its highest.

 

Can I also ask, where does the greeting Salaam actually come from, is it a cultural thing or a muslim thing? Either way maybe we are missing the point by saying it all the time, and then advocating attacks and war!

 

Try telling that to the zionists. Muslims arent the agressors, muslims are just trying to defend their lands and rights, but sometimes doing it in the wrong way, sadly.

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Do you have any evidence at all for your claims re: 9/11 and 7/7?

 

You have to open a new thread to discuss them specifically and to present your so-called tons of evidence so that I can refute your so-called tons of evidence.

 

All you've produced so far is American official that admitted that a 9/11 suspect was tortured after 9/11. If you read that news article it clearly states that she admitting to torturing him in 2002. So yes ok they tortured him and thats bad, but that doesn't have any bearing on the perpetrators of 9/11. They tortured him for information, not to get him to go back in time and commit 9/11, or are you suggesting they tortured him to get him to blame it on muslims?

 

This reported case might only be the tip of the iceberg. What does this mean? The sadistic US regime is using torture to extract an admission or confession by an innocent Muslim. This means that the US regime is trying to frame, slander and blame innocent Muslims by subjecting innocent Muslims to torture to force them to admit to the 9-11 crime that they had nothing to do with. There are many reports regarding the US regime and the US agents torturing innocent Muslims to force them to admit to the crime that they had nothing to do with in US prisons in Guantanamao (Cuba), USA and overseas. The innocent Muslims are simply tortured and framed by the US regime that results in severe mental and or physical suffering because the US regime is trying to condone the evil Zionist terrorists who had planned and carried out the 9-11 etc.

 

Typically, torture and cruel, inhuman and degrading punishment occur mostly upon arrest, in detention at US , prisons and holding facilities for innocent Muslims.

 

There is tons of evidence to suggest that it was Al-Quada (including videos of them taking responsiblity for both attacks), where is your evidence that it was carried out by anyone else?

 

The US regime and the israeli regime of terror have tons of fabricated evidence to frame innocent Muslims and to condone the Zionist terrorists who were responsible for the 9-11 etc.

 

If you can provide significant evidence then I will happily retract my statements, my views are subject to the evidence placed before me and are as such subject to change. Until you produce such evidence though I am happy to carry on living in 'ignorance'.

 

As I have said before, you have to open a new thread to present your so-called tons of evidence so that I can refute your so-called tons of evidence.

 

Regaring your second point, yes Hamas are the democractically elected party in the Palestine but Hitler was the democratically elected Prime Minster of Germany. I'm not comparing Hamas to the Nazis (please be very clear on that point!) I'm merely stating that being democratically elected doesn't give you the right to do whatever you want.

 

What I am saying is Hamas as the legitimate government of Palestine has its right to defend Gaza etc and to get back possession of the Palestinian land that the barbaric israeli regime of terror has stolen or robbed.

 

Hitler, Sharon, GW Bush etc were the democratically elected Prime Minster of Germany and israel , President of USA respectively but they are the worst international terrorists for inventing nonsensical fairy tales as a pretext to wage war against defenseless countries, attacking, invading and occupying other countries, terrorizing, enslaving and massacring innocent people and destroying civilian targets in foreign countries and violating the International Law.

 

Anyway thats by the by, you are right Hamas are the domocratically elected party and that does give them the mandate to defend Palastine using force if needs be. You clearly missed my point though, my point was that there is nothing wrong with defending yourself, there is something wrong with attacking. Now the problem here is not whether it is morally right to attack israel or not (I would argue it isn't, but as I say thats not the point) the point is, it is constructive to the situation to do so?

 

The barbaric israeli regime of terror has been attacking, invading and occupying Palestine illegally and terrorizing and massacring innocent and defenseless Palestinian people and destroying civilian targets and we all know that the barbaric Zionist terrorists have been terrorizing and robbing innocent Palestinian people of their land in order to establish the illegal Greater israel. Therefore, it is morally right for Hamas to retaliate whenever the barbaric Zionist terrorists attack Gaza etc. It is morally right if Hamas attack israel to retake the land that has been stolen or robbed by the barbaric Zionist terrorists.

 

What do Hamas rocket attacks achieve? They occassionally kill a civillian, very rarely they actually injure or kill millitary personel. They do not in any way prevent israel raining down bombs/rockets into Palestine, in fact they provoke them.

 

The fact is the barbaric israeli regime of terror and the sadistic Zionist terrorists have been attacking, invading and occupying Palestine illegally and terrorizing and massacring innocent and defenseless Palestinian people without any provocations since 1948 so Palestinian people have their right to use force to defend themselves and to retake their land that has been stolen by the barbaric Zionists.

 

The International Law etc allow Hamas as the legitimate government of Palestine to defend Palestine by using force against the israeli forces. The real issue here is the israeli regime of terror is violating the International Law, the Geneva Convention, the Nuremburg Principle etc and the basic human right of Palestinian people by attacking, invading and occupying Palestine illegally. You should condemn israel for its crime against humanity instead of blaming and framing Hamas. Hamas is using the rockets because it has no other weapons to defend itself and retaliate. What is clear here is the hypocrisy of the US regime and its allies prevents Hamas from getting the right weapons to stop the Zionist crime against Palestinian people while the US regime supports and finances the barbaric israeli regime of terror to the extent that the israeli regime of terror and Zionist terrorists are allowed to use the US-made weapons and WMDs to massacre the innocent and defenseless Palestinian people and destroy civilian targets in Palestine.

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Some very important hadiths to ponder over! It also completely nullify the statement's of twoswordsali of birth rates.

 

 

Talhah ibn Malik narrated that Allah’s Messenger said, “One of the signs of the approach of the Last Hour would be the destruction of the Arabs (i.e., war on Arabs).”

(Sunan Tirmidhi)

 

...

 

Auf bin Malik also consulted about Qiyamah with Rasulullah, who said: "Count six things before the advent of Qiyamah: (1) my death; (2) the conquest of Jerusalem; (3) mass deaths among you people, just as when sheep die in large numbers during an epidemic; (4) abundance of wealth to such an extent that if a person were to be given a hundred dinars he will still not be satisfied; (5) general anarchy and bloodshed, that no Arab household will be spared from it (6) then a life of peace as a result of a peace agreement between you and the Banil Asfaar [Romans, Christians] which they will break and attack you with a force consisting of 80 flags and under each flag will be an army of 12,000 men."

 

...

 

Abdullah ibn Hawalah al-Azdi narrated: “The Apostle of Allah sent us on foot to get spoils, but we returned without getting any. When he saw the signs of distress on our faces he stood up before us and said: O Allah, do not put them under my care, for I would be too weak to care for them; do not put them in care of themselves, for they would be incapable of that, and do not put them in the care of men, for they would choose the best things for themselves. He then placed his hand on my head and said: Ibn Hawalah, when you see the Caliphate established in the Holy Land (i.e., when an imposter Euro-Jewish State of israel rules the world from the Holy Land) earthquakes, sorrows and serious matters would have drawn near, and on that day the Last Hour would be nearer to mankind than this hand of mine is to your head.”

 

(Sunan Abu Daud)

 

...

 

Anas ibn Malik narrated that the Prophet said: “The Last Hour would not come until people vie with one another about Masajid (i.e. contesting with each other for control over Masajid).”

 

(Sunan Abu Daud)

 

:sl:

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