Islamic Forum

# Golden Ratio, God's Mathematical Miracle Of Al-kaaba

## Recommended Posts

Dear Everyone,

I worked in financial forex and futures markets before (before God's guidance made me realize the haram in it). Fibonacci sequence numbers were the golden rule of calculating the price points at which rallys and dips extend before reversal. If the level breaks then the movement will continue until probably the next level. The ratio was always 0.618 in addition to the current level (in other words 161.8% level of the movement, or 1.618 multiplied by the size of the movement in price).

The number itself is based on successions:

1+2 = 3, 3 divided by two is 1.5. Now take the last two numbers and do the same, and you'll notice that the answer is becoming closer and closer to 1.618:

2+3 = 5, 5 divided by 3 is 1.66.....

3+5 = 8, 8 divided by 5 is 1.6

5+8 = 13, 13 divided by 8 is 1.625

8+13 = 21, 21 divided by 13 is 1.6153846...

And so on. The numbers are known as the fibonacci sequence: 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89 and so on. The resulting percentages between the higher up figures in the pattern are almost 1.618 and continue to get closer and closer. It was evident in liquid wave measurement, echo response, and biological population ebbs and dips, to scientists it's like a physical equivelent of pi (3.14)

This video is regarding the exciting find showing the evidence of the deliberate use of this number in the design of us as humans, but more importantly the miraculous positioning of Al-Kaaba. The creator is a turkish 3d Animator so he made the video beautifully. Enjoy it and please remember: say "subhan Allah" and don't forget a good dua for your humble posters.

If link is not working, just go to youtube and search for "MIRACLE OF KAABA"

Also, using a different player (and in some countries a faster download):

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetmefeedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/entry/non-muslim-watch-this-miracle-of-kaaba/16769780"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetmefeedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/entry/non-muslim-w...-kaaba/16769780[/url]

For an HD version go to

Sam Edited by dot

##### Share on other sites

Thanks for taking time in explaining. Its a bit difficult to grasp even though I am also from a finance background. I think there are many other mathematical miracles yet to be found on the Quran and other aspects of Islam. We need some good educated Muslim to invest some time to investigate further. The only problem is, the highly educated Muslims are busy making money by working in banks and insurance companies. The more educated we become, the more we tend to distance ourselves from Islam.

##### Share on other sites

al salamo alaykom

jazak Allah khair for sharing...very interesting..i found the (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetholymysteries(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/golden_ratio.htm"]website[/url] that promotes the movie, he explains everything there about the golden ratio, incredible.

54:49 Verily, all things have We created in proportion and measure. [using large font size is not allowed]

and here's a quote from the website

THE MEANINGS AND THE MAIN IMPORTANCE OF THE DISCOVERIES

In lots of living creatures and objects, the existence of the golden ratio proves that its designer is a â€œmysterious force.â€ Besides this power which creates humankind that we call God, created mathematics and the golden ratio before the humans and used this ratio as an honor seal to express some of these elite, elegant beings. This miraculous design and rate prove an existence of great brilliance and a delicate measurement that is determined before.

Kaabaâ€™s and the holy areaâ€™s placements on the golden ratio point of the world shows us that in Lordâ€™s mercy the most honorable place on earth is this place. Among all of the religions, Islam is the only religion to give the great meanings like holiness and the first house of worship, the direction of praying and meeting place to Kaaba.

It is a miracle that Meccaâ€™s / Kaabaâ€™s place on earth is designed by the verse in the Holy Quran, Muslimâ€™s holy book for over 14 centuries and it states that in this holy area the evidences are lurked in that will cause communitiesâ€™ searching for the right way. It proves that it is written by a force that knows the golden ratio, can see the earth from the space and knows the measurements that are accepted in the future, knows math very well, God

Like written in this holy book, we must â€œtrulyâ€ believe the prophecy of Hz. Muhammad, the existence of heaven and hell and design our lives to this rules because the truth has showed itself in a certain way. Doubtlessly, in holy Quran there are lots of other scientific miracles. An inevitable end is waiting a fast car which saw the sign of â€œDead Endâ€ but still driving. In that case we must follow the rules and we must act by it. In future we will have no excuse for any accusation because we are going to be told â€œThe signs were given to you to find the right way. You ignored them. So who is guilty, you or us?â€

##### Share on other sites

Subhan Allah,

This is another video using Google Earth to prove the inspiration of the prophet -pbuh-. The prophet Muhammad -pbuh- who never visited or went to Yemen, ordered the assigned governer and protector of Sanaa that when he gets there, and after getting the people to become muslim, he should build a Masjid. He -pbuh- gave that Sahabi a specific description and detailed positioning, telling the Sahabi to build the Masjid in a specific garden at a precise rock as a cornerstone, and then to make its Qibla face the tip of a mountain there called Deyn. Google Earth today proves that the line from that Masjid going through that mountain tip, EXACTLY continues across thousands and thousands of miles to reach the center of the Mecca, right at the Kaaba.

Edited by Sampharo

##### Share on other sites

Salaams,

Recently I was reminded of this thread and watched the golden mean video properly. In the video, the following claims are made:

That Mecca is the golden ratio point of the Earth.

That Mecca is the golden ratio point of Mecca

That Kaba is the golden ratio point of the city of Mecca

That the word 'Mecca' is at the golden ratio point of verse 3.96.

Firstly, a sphere cannot have a golden ratio point. You don't need to be advanced in maths to know that a sphere cannot have a golden mean point.

a= distance between Mecca and North pole

b= distance between Mecca and South pole.

b/a = 1.618

Okay, great. But that means the point exactly on the other side of the world must also have the golden mean. In fact, you get the same ratio for every point along the same latitude of Mecca because the Earth is sphere shaped. So go one mile East or West of Mecca and you'll get the golden ratio again. Also, if you picked a city to the south of the equater and did a/b instead of b/a, you'd get the golden ratio again at a different point and all the points along that latitude too. So what exactly are we trying to show here? In my opinion, not an awful lot. Yes, the fact Mecca does lie on the golden mean may be a sign but to a Muslim but it should only be a point of interest, not a validation that it is a holy site. It's holy because Allah says so. So if this isn't for Muslims, who is this type of thinking aimed at? A non-Muslim most certainly won't be convinced by this.

Here are some of the other cities in the world which fall on the same latitude of Mecca:

21.103634 Cancun, Mexico

21.319399 Dien Bien Phu, Vietnam

21.304387 Pakokku, Burma

21.181509 Raipur, India

So these cities are on the golden mean as well.

Also, Kaba does not fall on the golden mean of the city of Mecca in any meaningful way as claimed by the video. The city itself is a funny shape and so you would have to measure almost at a diagonal before you get even close to that number. Plus, the city is always expanding. Mecca does not fall on the golden mean of the the Arab peninsula, or "Arabia" as it is called in the film. It may be on the golden mean of Saudi Arabia but that's not a miracle or a sign because Saudi Arabia is made up of artificial borders i.e. the Saudi Kingdom declared their borders as a result of war.

I checked the verse of Mecca on the video, 3.96 and the word Bakkah does not fall on the golden mean. The video says there are 47 letters in the verse but I counted 41. Therefore, the word Bakkah (another name of Mecca) does not fall on the 29th letter, as claimed by the film. I even calculated it for 41 letters and it still doesn't work. Supporting literature of the video states the following:

"While counting the letters, as the shaddas cause the letters to be read twice, the letters that it is attached to is counted as two letters."

Does this make sense to anyone? Even if you used this explanation of using shaddas twice (which in reality is wrong because the shadda is for emphasis and not to denote two letters) it still doesn't fall on the 29th letter. Or am I counting wrong?

It seems this video is desprately trying to show there is some holy significance of 1.618 with Mecca, but in my opinion, failing.

Peace

##### Share on other sites

:sl: Josh

Thanks for getting this thread running again, just to clarify, the reason why I began researching this concept or " Golden Ratio Philosophy" as the Author calls it was to identify if what the Author was saying had some truth in it or as you said to see if it was a scam. I was particularly interested in this book/movie because I've seen Muslims use it in arguments with non-muslims on many websites without even doing any research themselves or refering to a scholar or mathematician in order to verify if any of it was true.

Anyways I'm nearly finished with the book, and will post anything interesting I find.

Salams

Edited by Saaabz

##### Share on other sites

Salaams,

Perhaps other members have some knowledge in this. Has anyone counted the letters in 3.96 to verify the claim in the video?

Peace

Double post.

Edited by Saaabz

##### Share on other sites

Salams

Here is the video that Josh and I are talking about.

Any other members care to contribute their opinion?

##### Share on other sites

It sounds interesting, but seems to me to make some dubious claims.

I used a calculator, like the narrator said, to calculate the latitude of Mecca and its proportions from north pole to south pole. I got 1.616. That is close to the golden means, but I wonder if close is good enough to claim a miracle. I did the same for the longitude and came up with 1.638. That is close too, but not as good as the latitude numbers. Still, as Josh said, this would seem to put Mecca's golden ratio at the mercy of the British, who arbitrarily thought that latitude lines should start in their country. As for the other map measurements, Josh is right in that it really isn't valid because you have arbitrarily chosen a particular map layout, and not even the most accurate one you can have for a flat map representing a sphere like the earth. A more accurate map would be something like the Mollweide or Goode homolosine projection.

##### Share on other sites

Using Google Earth ruler, here are the measurements I got. I chose the Kaaba as the point from which to measure Mecca:

7623.59 kilometers to the North Pole

12357.97 kilometers to the South Pole

1.617 is the ratio between the South Pole distance and the sum of the two (the golden ratio). Very close. Maybe close enough to justify saying that the north/south measurements are the golden ratio if a different point in the city were chosen (depending on how big Mecca is of course).

It isn't as easy to measure the longitude since that is arbitrary. I tried doing it on Google Earth, but the ruler insisted on following the curve of the earth rather than the line of the latitude, which makes sense since the earth is round and not flat.

##### Share on other sites

:sl:

It may have some entertainment value however, I think its something we should kind of avoid getting into. You see this kind of thing ends up backfiring. Are we to ignore logic and reason and all that is good in Islam and resort to such things to prove our point? Is the whole Quran and all the rationale and arguments in not capable of getting through to the people that we must resort to shaky facts?

Lets stay away from such traps, wherein one ignores the actual argument in favour of such 'science'.

It's like the lion video where the lion was supposedly saying Allah. ... See More

Is not the message that Islam brings the reason we are Muslims, or is it some ratio or some random occurance that is the cause?

What Muslims need to do is to focus on the message and stay away from such things that in the long run backfire. The message of Islam should be our focus not the golden ratio or some other such thing.

w/salaam

##### Share on other sites

It seems it's trying to make it's way to the big screen, some FAQ's below.

1. When will the movie be released in theatres?

We are currently evaluating the sponsorship and co-production proposals. A sufficient advertising budget and film printing cost are required to be provided so that the movie could come out in theatres. As soon as relevant problems are solved, the release date will be announced. Should the movie not come to the big screen, it is planned to be featured on TVs within 2010 at the latest.

1. 2) How was letter counting performed in Surah, Ali İmran, verse 96 in the trailer?

As the shadda replaces a double-consonant in Arabic language, the shadda marked letters are counted twice. This count rule applies for the forthcoming episodes of the documentary.

1. 3) Which map was taken as basis for calculating the Golden Ratio Point on the Earth that indicates Kabâ€™ah?

There was no reference to Meccaâ€™s being the Golden Ration Point on the Earth in the trailers. However, the golden ratio point of the earth is at Mecca. As mentioned in the trailers, there are slight variations in mapping systems which make an accurate estimation impossible. The reason behind is the flattened spherical, geoid-like shape of the earth. Besides, a displacement of pole which namely, a chandler wobble takes place. Yet, miraculously, this golden ratio point has always been within the city of Mecca. Even the continental drifts have oriented throughout the human history in a way to maintain that point at Mecca.

1. 4) Is it possible that all cities located on the same latitude have a golden ratio point?

Yes, it is. However, Mecca derives its distinctiveness from the fact that the proportion of distances between the lines of latitude-longitude establishing its borders and the solstice line also gives the golden ratio. When viewed from this aspect, Mecca is unique to itself; namely, there is no another city like Mecca.

The latitude values of 0 to 0 constitute the origin of the coordinate system and in accordance with the religious terminology; Mecca has positive-above-right values.

1. 5) Will the scene in the trailer be the opening scene of the movie?

No, it is just a demo program. Incoherent or misunderstood points are being revised.

1. 6) Who conducted this research and prepared the trailer?

Erdem Çetinkaya from MivaFilm

##### Share on other sites
It seems it's trying to make it's way to the big screen, some FAQ's below.

All in all, it's definitely not a coincidence..

I mean human bodies have deformaties n anomalies, yet people still say it has proximities to golden ratio..

the signs are there for those who want to see it.. :sl:

##### Share on other sites

Someone called disabled0335 said something annoyingly funny in his response in this blog to the video on golden ratio of kaba. He said, 'spheres' do not have golden ratios. That is very well, my friend. But earth ISN'T a sphere. I hope you have enough knowledge to understand that. Earth is an elipsoid. It is not a sphere. Any elipsoid will have a golden ratio. Your stupidity surprises me and annoys me as well. GET OUT!

##### Share on other sites

Привет, друзья.

предлагаю вступить в проект с вложение всего 7 рублей.

Также есть проект с вложением всего 100 рублей.

Проекты новые. Можно вступать в оба. Перспективные.

Выплаты - прямые, без накоплений, задержек и прочего.

Подробности - на сайте. Так же на сайте есть обратная связь с куратором.

Перейти на сайте - щёлкнув по картинке.

Если что то будет непонятно, пишите на сайте в разделе "общение и вопросы"

## Create an account

Register a new account