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IrishMan7

European-americans Who Convert To Islam Seen As Traitors?

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This has been a topic of debate and is often brought up when I discuss Islam with others in my area. When they hear about a white person who converted to Islam it is seen as "betraying the Western world, their ancestors, their heritage and adopting a culture that they do not belong in, and becoming Arab". Obviously, the terrorists believe this as well although from a slightly different perspective. As an Irish-American who very well might be "the traitor" in a while I would just like to see what everyone thought of this or have heard this type of thing before.

 

 

 

 

peace be with you :sl:

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When they hear about a white person who converted to Islam it is seen as "betraying the Western world, their ancestors, their heritage and adopting a culture that they do not belong in, and becoming Arab".

 

Well religion is not matter of culture, ancestor or heritage or race it is a matter of faith. A matter of difference between truth and falsehood, right and wrong and true God and false Gods.

 

btw betraying the whole world is better than betraying yourself by betraying your LORD, because in the end everyone else except the believers will feel themselves betrayed.

 

PEACE

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As an Irish-American who very well might be "the traitor" in a while I would just like to see what everyone thought of this or have heard this type of thing before.

 

Every Muslim in the days of the prophet -pbuh- was called a heretic and a traitor to their forefather gods, and many were subjected to all sorts of torture, many of which were fatal. They were held under stones in the desert, or had their limbs pulled apart by horses, or simply whipped or locked to starve to death.

 

In general, any person who declares a change in the fundamental status quo will shake the foundation of comfort for everyone around them, and that usually generates a negative response, except if it affirms their own beliefs. Muslims in your life will be happy you saw the truth and will welcome the move, non-muslim no matter what creed will feel it's a betrayal to their own belief. "How come he didn't convert to MY religion" will be the unspoken thought, the spoken word will be "you're becoming a terrorist/jihadist/sand n&^%$$/ and betraying your people/heritage/race/country/culture/nine eleven memory foundation". It's natural, as you already know and like I commented the first time you posted, most people in the west see religion as some sort of meditation activity, an enlightenment path that, like food on a menu, should be chosen to your liking. There is little deep search for the actual sensible truth, so going foreign is like refusing to buy american in the middle of a recession.

 

We deal with people who go through that a lot of the time, and it's most common and almost always that friends change. Your family will depend on how attached they are to their own religion, which should NOT be much of a big deal for you since you already converted from Protestant to Catholic and they are living with it. Parents in the West are also very sensetive not to alienate their sons and daughters and would restrain from going too far with their emotions.

 

Generally speaking though, this will be an effort exerted during the shift, and it will be worth exerting as well. You will be rewarded for it in more ways than you can currently imagine by the way. :sl:

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What is Islams view on apostates ?

 

The same view of the central military forces if a soldier or officer goes AWOL to join a local militia.

 

Just like reverting to Islam is voluntary, so is joining the armed forces, but once you join the one true armed forces that serves the country, there is no disappearing or deserting duty. Same with Islam. Islam is God's religion, one and only from the beginning of time (whether you believe that or not is irrelevent, armed forces of a country does not need every individual's approval to be legitimately so). While Judaism and Christianity were derived from the true messengers teachings and were based on true books, the final complete message by prophet Mohammed is the final testament to properly maintain God's religion. Other religions are man-made, most are so professed. Just like if you join a local militia, you're free to do so, but if you join the armed forces and receive the training, deserting and joining up again with a local militia who could work against the country's interests is totally forbidden. Same way in religion, if you wish to embrace other religions from the beginning, so be it, but once you revert to Islam there are consequences to desertion.

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but once you revert to Islam there are consequences to desertion.

 

Asalaamu Alaikum,

This happens to be very true. Your closet friends and even your parents will leave you but as your Iman grows stronger you will soon discover that you wont need them anymore. Having a good muslim friend who will stop you from going astray is much better than having your mum or dad leading you astray. May Allah give strength to those who see the truth and come to it. Ameen.

Wasalaam Umm Khattab.

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Sallam. My personal experience with Western (or otherwise) reverts is that they shine out like diamonds. People like Yusuf Estes, Yusuf Islam, Yusha Evans, and others are some of the best examples of living Muslims for me. I guess they really put themselves out there and took the hard road and that makes them so much the greater in the long-run.

 

For those who seek the truth no matter the odds, I think that their reward is with their Lord. In the end, I think that the dialogue is between you and Allah and nothing in between. I think Yusuf Estes' site and the Deen Show may be of interest to you as far as how other experiences went. May Allah Bless you and guide you, and make all burdens that you may have to bear easy on you.

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The beauty of Islam is that it knows no race or nationality. Bigotry might be deeprooted within certain people (sadly) but in Islam, every man will be judged by his character and obedience to Allah, not by his ancestry. If you do accept Islam, Allah willing, I pray that you will be surrounded by Muslims who have knowledge about their religion and who know the importance of brotherhood.

 

Salam.

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Also, the question of "betraying" your culture need not arise. It's perfectly possible to be a Muslim and an American; it's perfectly possible to be a Muslim and enjoy English-language (or Gaelic, for that matter) literature; it's perfectly possible to be a Muslim and respect the Scientific method; it's perfectly possible to be a Muslim and play baseball (or hurling, if your Irish half prefers that).

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This has been a topic of debate and is often brought up when I discuss Islam with others in my area. When they hear about a white person who converted to Islam it is seen as "betraying the Western world, their ancestors, their heritage and adopting a culture that they do not belong in, and becoming Arab". Obviously, the terrorists believe this as well although from a slightly different perspective. As an Irish-American who very well might be "the traitor" in a while I would just like to see what everyone thought of this or have heard this type of thing before.

peace be with you :sl:

 

 

Asalamu Alleykum IrishMan,

 

As a somewhat recent convert to Islam myself, I can tell you from personal experience that while you will inevitably deal with people who do not understand and question your decision, it is the most wonderful choice I have ever made, hamdulilah. As a Muslim, you will invariably come across people who have pre-conceived notions and points of view contrary to what Islam and your faith is all about. That said, I think it is necessary to understand that while becoming Muslim is a very important decision, it is also incumbent upon all Muslims to defend and spread Islam. Allah willing, you will make the right decision to become Muslim and Allah will grant you the strength to promote the one true and pure religion.

 

BarakAllahfeek,

 

Sayyid

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As an American convert living in a foreign country so she could do hijrah, I indeed have been branded a traitor. I am the moderator of 4 forums and I have been personally attacked for choosing not to live in America. It is very difficult to convince anyone that I am here for my religion and as a sacrifice to Allah, swt. When we truly are Muslims we must shut our ears to what others say and just don't care. We may have to sacrifice, family, country and wealth but we are here as our duty requires.

 

The only friend I need is Allah, swt and his most beloved messenger, pbuh. Remember Abu Darr, "Blessed be the one who worships alone."

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As an Irish-American who very well might be "the traitor" in a while I would just like to see what everyone thought of this or have heard this type of thing before.

 

yes. in my experience, Westerners (white people, specifically) who convert to Islam are seen as betraying the west, and their heritage. Islam is not only a set of beliefs- it's also a culture with its own vocabulary, norms, manners, and traditions. and this culture is often not understood by non-Muslim family.

 

the faith and the culture go side-by-side in Islam. Arabic is the language of the Quran, and of Islamic prayers, expressions, and greetings. wearing a hijab or a kufi and growing a beard are seen as Arab / Islamic qualities, and not compatible with being Western. of course, most Muslims are not Arab at all. but the Arab roots of the faith are strong, and many white people will react negatively to these things.

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What is Islams view on apostates ?

 

i have talked with Muslims who believe that apostates who wish to live in peace and not fight or hassle Muslims should be allowed to live out their new faith (or lack of faith) peacefully. in other words, it is between the apostate and Allah.

 

many other Muslims, however, believe that the only fair and just response to apostasy in Allah's sight is to kill the apostate.

 

the punishment of death for leaving Islam is not clearly spelled out in the Quran, but is clearly spelled out in hadith and is sunnah.

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Salaam

 

The question of apostacy keeps coming up and I found a very good article by brother yusuf estes which I have pasted below.

 

"What happens to the one who leaves (apostates) Islam?" ANSWER:

 

Jazakallah khair and may Allah reward you for your question regarding those who become "murtid" (apostate from Islam):

Your letter has caused me to finally sit down and prepare a complete written response this subject and it gives me the opportunity to also include this reply in our discussion boards on the Internet. I pray for you and ask Allah to reward you every time someone reads this and takes benefit from it, ameen. Please write back and let me know if the following research and presentation is of any benefit for you and for those whom you are sharing about Islam.

 

You probably are aware I was once a Christian music minister and preacher, coming to Islam while trying to "convert" a Muslim from Egypt to Christianity. (full story on our website at: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetyusufestes(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/"]you are not allowed to post links yetYusufEstes(contact admin if its a beneficial link)[/url]

 

As you must imagine, I had some very serious concerns over this very same question, before accepting to leave Christianity for Islam. After all, I didn't think anyone would kill me for doing so. It was only in the last few years I learned there is killing going on in some countries over the issue of family members and others converting to other religions. Yes! - even in these days! Egypt has cases of Christians killing someone for going to Islam, as well as the other way around. This is also true, according to the newspapers about someone in israel going to Islam last year. And there is even a law in Chanai, India forbidden the public declaration of faith for anyone converting to Islam. I know that to be a fact, as I was there at the time of the tsunami and a man from Texas wanted to convert from Christianity to Islam while Dr. Zakir Naik's program was going on (the man's name was David) and the authorities would not allow it in public. They told me that there had been a series of murders as a result of a man converting from Hindu to Islam in the area and they just didn't want any more killings or civil riots. (I think "civil riots" is an oxymoron?)

 

I had discussed this issue of apostasy in great depth many times, even before making up my mind to leave almost 50 years of Christianity to become a Muslim. After all I thought, what if I would like to change my mind and go back to being a Christian or make some other choice along the way; what would the Muslims do to me then? So you are most correct to ask this and we will try our best to provide the answer from historical evidences of Islam.

 

But before we begin, I would like to observe your particular question because it is not a general question. It deals with a specific occurrence in a particular place in certain circumstances, which I would like to come back to in a brief moment.

 

Also there is something not correct in the question. The man did not recently convert. He was already a Christian even before the Taliban. I do not know all of the circumstances, but I have been informed by some of the actual people from Afghanistan the man in question (I think his name is Abdur Rahman or something similar) had been Christian for a long number of years and this incident was really based on something else, but what, I don't know.

 

The story presented in the news media these days is one of about an Afghani man who has been a Christian for over 16 years. This means he was a Christian throughout the entire time the Taliban were running the country there and obviously no one did anything to him throughout this time. Only now, with the western backed regime in place, are we hearing about this "problem." It does make a person wonder what is really going on there.

 

Nevertheless, we will discuss the subject of how Islam views the one who leaves Islam, if God Wills (inshallah).

To begin, there is not a hard and fast rule concerning this subject because there are perhaps as many reasons why people do what they do as there are people in the world. The answer must be based on each individual situation, as it depends largely on the person, his or her knowledge, intention and understanding as well as the conditions surrounding the circumstances.

 

Before we can begin, to be fair to those not familiar with Islamic terms and words, we must start by explaining to both Muslims and the non-Muslims alike, who might be wondering about the answer to such a question, what Islam is really all about and set the stage for them to better understand the actual ramifications of entering and/or leaving Islam.

 

First, they have to understand what all of the relevant Arabic words and terms actually mean. You should explain exactly what "Islam" means and what is: Tawhid (monotheism); Ibadah (worship); Shar'iah (God's Commandments in Islamic Law); Fatwah (Islamic Judge's findings in Law and their subsequent rulings); Hudud (punishment); Murtid (apostasy). It is important for anyone desiring to understand Islam's position on any subject, especially in such matters as this, to gain a firm grip on the importance of words being used and their meanings regarding the issues at hand.

 

The first word to explain is:

"Allah" - believe it or not, most people do not know the word "God" is a deficiency in the English language. There is no word for the "God" of Adam, Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon and Jesus, (peace be upon them all) in English. The word "god" is used both for the pagans and the monotheists. In order to distinguish between the two, the first letter "g" in the word is capitalized when written. However, this approach does help very much when beginning a sentence with the word as all sentences begin with capital letters. Nor does it provide for any type of distinction when speaking as there would be no way to differentiate between "god" and "God. "Allah" is the appropriate word for the "God" of Jews, Christians and Muslims alike. There is a word in Arabic for "god" (note the small 'g'); it is "elah." The word "Allah" in Arabic comes from the same root, but it can not be made plural (as in: 'gods') nor can the word imply actual gender (as in: 'goddess'). Allah is the perfect word to describe the One God Almighty of the universe and it has been the word used by the writers of the Bible for both the Jews and Christians in the Arabic language for centuries. (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgodallah(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/"]you are not allowed to post links yetGodAllah(contact admin if its a beneficial link)[/url]

 

"Islam" means; surrender, submission, obedience, sincerity and peace between God and His Creatures (us); to do "God's Will on earth, as it is in Heaven" (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetwhatsislam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/"]you are not allowed to post links yetWhatsIslam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)[/url]

 

"Muslim" comes from the same root as "Islam" and it means: the one who believes in Allah and is complying with the Shari'ah of Islam) (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislamtomorrow(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/word/"]you are not allowed to post links yetIslamTomorrow(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/word/[/url] (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislamtomorrow(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/word/"]

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Tawhid (monotheism) in Islam is - to believe in the One God of Adam, Abraham, Moses and Jesus and Muhammad, peace be upon them all, and to obey the Commandments of Allah according to His Will. It is to worship Allah, Alone without any partners (see: First Commandment; Exodus, chapter 20) and to obey the prophets of Allah, worshiping Allah according to the way they did, and to be dutiful to the parents. (examples: Fifth Commandment; Exodus, chapter 20, Duet., chapter 5) feed the poor and care for the orphan, to always tell the truth, encourage good and forbid evil. Basically, it is to believe as mentioned by the New Testament (Mark: chapter 12:29) "Know O israel, the Lord your God is One Lord; and you have to worship Him with all your heart and all your mind and all your strength. And I give you another Commandment like unto it, to love your neighbor as yourself."

 

Ibadah (worship) only for Allah and not to anything in or of His Creation. All praise, worship, thanksgiving and supplications are for Him only.

 

Quran (Recitation and actual Speech of Allah recorded in memory of Muhammad, peace be upon him, from the Angel Jibreel [Gabriel]. It was then passed on from mouth to ear and recorded in manuscripts perserved until now. Quran is memorized by over 10,000,000 Muslims living on the earth today - 90% of whom are not even Arab, by the way. Quran is the Final Revelation and Last Testament from Allah to all mankind, as such it is considered by Muslims as the foundation for everything in the Shari'ah.

 

Shar'iah (God's Commandments in Islamic Law) The Commandments of Allah in the Quran and the Sunnah (teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him, as understood by the first generation of companions to Muhammad, peace be upon him). The shar'iah only applies to Muslims and those who live under the protection of the Islamic State (khalifate).

 

Fatwah Findings in Law and their subsequent rulings, by jurists and Islamic scholars who have memorized the Quran and are experts in the classical Arabic language and have correct knowledge of the meaning of the revelation of Quran and the hadeeth.

 

Hadeeth Authentically recorded and preserved testimonies of eyewitnesses to accounts taking place concerning Muhammad, peace be upon him, and the revelation of the Quran.

 

Hudud (punishment) The punishments to be initiated by those in authority according to Shar'iah as ordered according to appropriate fatawah (plural of fatwah).

 

Murtid (apostasy) a Muslim who makes the choice to leave Islam (submission to God's Will).

Next let them know, no one is ever forced or coerced into accepting Islam. This always was and always will be a matter of choice left up to the individual. Muslims are not ordered to "convert" people to Islam. Rather, they are ordered to deliver the message of Islam to others through their own righteous living as an example and in respectful "reminding" as taught in the Quran.

 

Islam (willful submission) to Allah's Shar'iah (God's Commandments in Islamic Law) and is the very balance needed for all humans for all times and in all places (according the teachings of Islam). The Paradise is reserved for only those who submit themeselves to the Commandments and Judgments of Almighty Allah.

 

There is never to be forced conversion to Islam (if it were forced, then the word "Islam" would not really apply anyway), and it is forbidden according to the Quran, in the second chapter, verse 256: "Let there be no complusion in the religioin ("deen": actually means way of life as opposed to "religion"). From this we understand no one can be made to believe anything by force. Rather, it must be by their own decision.

 

Now be sure they understand the difference between "Islam" and "Muslims", meaning: "Islam" is perfect, but we as humans (Muslims) are not. Therefore, we can and do make mistakes. This lets us know immediately if anyone is calling for something in the name of "Islam" or the "Shar'iah", this should be viewed in the evidence of the Shar'iah itself and not just what some jurist or scholar may conclude.

 

Finally, judges and scholars over the centuries have held different opinions and given various rulings based on all of the above. No one can make a blanket statement and say the same rule applies to all people in all situations.

Let us review some of the evidences starting at the time of our prophet, peace be upon him.

 

Even during the time of our prophet, peace be upon him, there were some who "left Islam" and then they were allowed to come back if they wanted to or stay away if they so desired. One example is from the Muslims who migrated in the first migration to Ethiopia and one of them left Islam, became a Christian (the people of Abyssinia were Christians at that time) and then even told people there he was an "author" of the Quran. Of course such actions are most despicable and worthy of some kind of reprimand, especially considering the extent of the lies against the Quran and the prophet, peace be upon him. Yet, nothing was done to this man by the Muslims. His wife, Zainab, could not tolerate his lies and his turning his back against the truth of Islam and she returned back to the Muslims in Arabia. After the man died the Christians attempted to bury him, but the next day they found his body out of the grave and laying on the ground. Considering the Muslims must have done this act, they moved him to another area and buried him there. Again, the next day they found his body out of the grave and on top of the ground. So, they took him far from there and made another grave and buried him in it. But again, the next day his body was out of the grave and laying on the ground. At this point they decided the ground would not accept his body and they left it for the wild animals. We learn from this example Allah will be the One to finally deal with these people and He may even do so in this world as well as on the Day of Judgment.

 

Other examples include those who entered Islam in the presence of our beloved prophet, peace be upon him, yet when they were returned back to their people (during an agreement between the pagans and Muhammad, peace be upon him) some of them reverted back to their old pagan religion. Some of them did come back to Islam again later on after Islam came to be the governing state. In this case we observe what can happen in the case of the one who is in Islam and then for whatever reason decides not to stay.

 

Yet another example that occurred at the time of our blessed prophet, peace be upon him, was that of some who pretended they wanted to be Muslims only to take advantage of the believers, gain some worldly benefits and then abused and slaughtered an entire group of shepherds that memorized the entire Quran, who were caring for them. They killed them in cold blood and took everything for themselves. The prophet, peace be upon him, was very disturbed over this and ordered them to be severely punished and left to die without any food or water. From this example we learn how to deal with traitors and terrorists who have no intention of doing anything except evil and spreading fitnah (evil and terror) throughout the land.

Over the centuries since the inception of Islam, we can find cases of people leaving Islam and what was their example and what the pervailing jurists decided in their particular situation. Most all of these were not punished except in the cases of treason, other acts of viloence or for propagating corruption, dissention and promoting evil along with their apostasy. Those who were found to be causing sedition or of being enemy spies during times of war or advocating the overthrow of Islamic government could understandably be courtmartialed and executed.

 

Now let us breifly compare the treatment of conversion and apostasy with other civilizations and societies over the centuries.

The Roman civilization would not tolerate someone who accepted the benefits of citizenship and the turned against the government. These people were made short work of as entertainment for the people, while gladiators tortured and killed them for public sport. (see: Encyclopedia Britanitca; Rome).

 

It may benefit us to take into consideration Judaism and Christianity to better understand the difference between what is being taught as the religion and what some people do. The Book of Genesis in the Torah (Old Testament) tells of an incident referred to by Scholars such as Rabbi Allison Bergman Vann, as the "Rape of Dinah." (note#3 & #4 below)

It is easy to conclude the offer of circumcizing and coming to their religion was only a trick to defeat the men while they were in such pain and suffering (keep in mind, in those days there were no clinics or even sterile conditions for such operations).

Another reference to "conversion and apostasy" regarding Jews during the years after Jesus, peace be upon him, occurred in the south of Arabia in Yemen. Yusuf Dhu Nawas, a Jewish leader in Yemen, attacked the Christians of Najran ordering them to embrace Judaism or be burned in a pit of fire. Estimates put the number of those killed between 20,000 and 40,000.

 

(note #5 below)

The Catholic Church at one time forced people to enter into their religion at the point of the sword and with torture chambers (see: Crusades, 1095 to 1200 A.D.; and Inquisition, 1492 to 1520 A.D.) Those who wished to remain or change to Islam or Judaism or even another form of Christianity were put to the most vile of tortures and even executed. However, this cannot be said to in any way, represent the teachings of Jesus or the New Testament.

Now let us consider the realities of balance in Islam in light of today's world:

There is no existing Islamic state with a khilafah. This means the hudud (punishment according to Islam) of the Shar'iah (Islamic Law) cannot be appropritely applied. Additionally, anyone not being a citizen living in an Islamic state could hardly be tried and convicted by the state in a proper manner.

 

(note #6 below)

Some would claim the Protestants are not the same as the Catholics. Read what the first real "protestant," Martin Lurther, had to say about this (taken from Jamal Udeen Zaraboza's article).

 

Let us consider the follow example for comparison:

 

> There is a person living in Russia decides he wants to become a citizen of the United States and goes to the United States Embassy and begins the procedure of immagration and naturalization. Later on he changes his mind, doesn't like things the US is doing and decides to give it up.

 

> Now he cancels his immagration process. This would could lessen his chances of getting citizenship in the future but would not bring about retaliation against him from the US.

 

> Then, if he begins to publicly speak out against the US policy and puts up websites, sends out emails makes speeches calling for acts of violence against America, he definitely is going to have a problem ever getting a chance a citizenship later if he should change his mind and like to become an American.

 

> Next, he goes so far as to actually recruit people and train them at some paintball place while telling them they are preparing to attack America.

 

<>Question: Is he going to be listed as a terrorist and enemy to America?

 

<> What about those who joined him for paintball practice and listened to his talks? Would they be listed along with him, as terrorists?

 

<> Would they be tortured (in some other country) and then spend the rest of their lives in prison?

 

! > After all, they are enemies to the state and should be treated as such. Right?

 

To conclude, Islam comes from Allah, the actual Creator and Sustainer of the universe. Islam provides for all situations and dictates what are the rights and limitations. This all seeks to provide a safe enviornment for all people to learn the correct message of Almighty Allah and how to live as upright citizens in a place of pleace and mutual cooperation for all humans, regardless of their beliefs.

 

If a person wants to accept this belief and way of life, then they should be free to do so. If another person would reject this even though the evidence is clearly in favor of Islam, they are free to make this choice but would live in the society still receiving the benefits and services available, such as food, shelter, clothing, protection and charity. However, they would pay a larger tax on their wealth due to their not being conscripted to serve in the military and so on.

 

Conditions are really what bring about the different rulings on dealing with those who enter Islam and then leave it, with the clear intention of bringing about descention and unrest amongst the people. Also, those who seek to convert people away from Islam into other faiths or to destroy the Islamic government would naturally be considered as traitors and then dealt with as such.

 

All knowledge is with Allah and for any mistakes I seek Allah's forgiveness and beg the pardon of anyone whom I may have offended in this writing.

 

Again, may Allah reward you for your effort and accept from you and all of us, ameen.

Salam alaykum,

Yusuf Estes

 

Wassalam

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Conditions are really what bring about the different rulings on dealing with those who enter Islam and then leave it, with the clear intention of bringing about dissension and unrest amongst the people. Also, those who seek to convert people away from Islam into other faiths or to destroy the Islamic government would naturally be considered as traitors and then dealt with as such.

 

so in other words, according to Mr. Estes, there is no one solution to apostasy.

 

but a Muslim who leaves Islam and then speaks openly about their new faith with Muslims, in an attempt to help convince them of this faith (instead of Islam) is a traitor and deserves death.

 

is this an accurate picture of what Estes is saying?

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Salaams peeps,

 

Essentially, yes. In an Islamic state, each case would have to be judged on its own merits. It is true that during the time of Muhammad s.a.w. there were cases where people left the religion and were allowed to do so with no harm coming to them. In other cases he s.a.w ordered their execution. In an Islamic state, to leave Islam is one thing, but to leave and then encourage others to leave amounts to treason. This is because Islam is not just a personal faith, but the basis of governance and civil institutions in the state. Mass conversions or apostates would cripple the state and tear apart its very fabric.

 

Peace

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Salaam

 

For many it is difficult to get your head around but I think one of the ways of thinking about it is that in western world the rules are secular and religion plays no part in it and hence change of religion makes no real impact on government and its people. However if someone threatens secular government either by disclosing its intelligence to others it would be treated as treason with the most severe of penalties. The reason for this is the potential harm to the society is great.

 

In an Islamic state where the law is Islamic leaving the religion and then calling others to leave it would be considered treason, again because of the impact on society. Let me give an example when the muslim are to join the army, those who don't want to can reject their faith so they don't have to join the army, you can imagine what chaos this can cause if in war. Or when muslims have to pay charity, those who don't want to wish to leave Islam, and then when it is time to pay tax as a non-muslim, they now want to become muslims again. Also within Islamic law as it is from god the most sacred law will be that of worshiping him alone, and hence to maintain ones Islamic religion and hence Islamic law will promote an environment where this is safeguarded and not put at risk.

 

And Allah knows best

 

Wassalam

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So how do Muslims feel about Muslims who convert to other religions ? Are they as magnanimous as they are when other religions convert to Islam ?How do they treat the 'convert' ?

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Iran Burns - answering your questioning specially

firstly read post # 14 by brother Kab, it will answer a great deal

next How does the USA military treat a person when he leaves military on his own will or when he decides to serve another country Miltary?

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America is not a religous based goverment ..........

 

so what? Islam is a way of life.there are special things you have to believe in.does changing your belief every now and then makes sense to you?

 

and if you accept Islam on your own why would you want to leave Islam...is this a game? Islam does not take life to be a game.

just like joining the army is not a game....if that is what the US government takes it to be.

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Im not sure what your reffering to.

Since american is not based on religion and there are certain rules and laws that protect the practice of religion i dont see how you could be a traitor for being a muslim.

If that ever did occur the US has some serious problems.

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Muhammed Shadab

 

 

Well religion is not matter of culture, ancestor or heritage or race it is a matter of faith. A matter of difference between truth and falsehood, right and wrong and true God and false Gods.

 

btw betraying the whole world is better than betraying yourself by betraying your LORD, because in the end everyone else except the believers will feel themselves betrayed.

 

PEACE

 

 

I disagree Muhammed

 

Religion is often related to culture, heritage etc... Especially with indoctrinization its often not eve a choice for the individual. It is also a matter of faith as well but to ignore the culture is missing a bigpart of any religion.

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Ranma, but they hide behind religions when the "counter" Islam, Bush said God talked to him in his dreams???

 

They are providing full materialistic, monetary, moral and technical support to israel just because Israle is fulfilling "the biblical prophecy". Jerry Falwell acted as Bush's mentor, which is an undeniable fact.

 

However, treating an American who is a convert to Islam with "treason" kinda attitude is severely ignorant and bias, the Muslims are as American as they come. The same like Jews or Christians or Hindus or Sikhs or Buddhists or Shintos who live in USA.

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Im not sure what your reffering to.

Since american is not based on religion and there are certain rules and laws that protect the practice of religion i dont see how you could be a traitor for being a muslim.

If that ever did occur the US has some serious problems.

 

You are joking right??? If you are a Muslim in America you are watched daily, followed and harrassed. The Masjid is bugged, your phones are tapped and lord help us with all the things I cannot write on the internet.

 

As a simple example. When they bombed the Oklahoma building, they assumed it was Muslims so we had to stay in our homes out of fear. We had our lives threatened and we were not safe. Finally they told it was a good ole white boy and what did we do? Nothing. Islam is not like that. Freedom of religion is only for Christians and Catholics.

 

Ask the imaan who just died in the bombed out house.

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