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The Flaw With All Religion?

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After alot of praying and meditating and self thinking, it seems to me that the flaw with all religion is that they attempt to personify Allah, this cant be so, Allah is not human, therefore Allah cannot have mercy or compassion or even caring for that matter, these are human characteristics. Allah simply transcends all these "labels" we have put on Allah. Our minds cannot comprehend Allah because we were not designed to comprehend. It is like a computer trying to comprehend emotion.

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After alot of praying and meditating and self thinking, it seems to me that the flaw with all religion is that they attempt to personify Allah, this cant be so, Allah is not human, therefore Allah cannot have mercy or compassion or even caring for that matter, these are human characteristics. Allah simply transcends all these "labels" we have put on Allah. Our minds cannot comprehend Allah because we were not designed to comprehend. It is like a computer trying to comprehend emotion.

 

Actually, it seems to me that you have the same flaw as most of the religions - you try to describe God by telling how He ought to be according to your beliefs instead of describing Him as He described Himself. I hope you see the stark difference between the two. God has described Himself as Ar-Rahman, Ar-Raheem, having compassion and mercy.

 

I will quote a verse from the Qur'an and maybe you will understand the wisdom behind it:

 

there is nothing whatever like unto Him and He is the One That hears and sees (all things)." (Qur'an: Translation of the meaning, 42:11)

 

This is how all of the English translators have translated this verse, but they make one mistake in translating it. It should read: there is nothing whatever like unto Him yet He is the One That hears and sees

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Actually, it seems to me that you have the same flaw as most of the religions - you try to describe God by telling how He ought to be according to your beliefs instead of describing Him as He described Himself. I hope you see the stark difference between the two. God has described Himself as Ar-Rahman, Ar-Raheem, having compassion and mercy.

 

I will quote a verse from the Qur'an and maybe you will understand the wisdom behind it:

 

there is nothing whatever like unto Him and He is the One That hears and sees (all things)." (Qur'an: Translation of the meaning, 42:11)

 

This is how all of the English translators have translated this verse, but they make one mistake in translating it. It should read: there is nothing whatever like unto Him yet He is the One That hears and sees

I think i understand, i was assuming since Allah is a higher power than us he cannot have some human characteristics, but he still can. Just as we are higher than animals but still have some animal characteristics.

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:sl:

 

Mercy is one of the attributes of Allah, it's not a characteristic that only we human beings were created with. Allah gave us the ability to have mercy on one another, it's a gift from Allah that reflects His attributes as Ar-Rahman (The Most Merciful).

 

In other words, mercy is not a "human" characteristic, it did not originate from us human beings.

 

Brother, you should be really careful of denying (even out of ignorance) any aspects of Allah because it can make a person a kaffir. Saying "therefore Allah cannot have mercy or compassion or even caring for that matter" is a very powerful denial of some of the 99 attributes of Allah mentioned in the Qur'an. I would advice you to repent immediately and be careful of reaching any sorts of conclusions in the future without making sure that you are right.

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Dshurd, for a while now brother you have been going through some messed up thoughts and we spoke about it before. I am seeing strong church and athiesm influence in your statements (higher power, meditating, humans higher than animals) and you need to clear your thought process and understand that before anything, you are not supposed to or expected to discover things untold clearly. Man-made religions are trying to work people's imagination so as to let them be attracted by whatever works for them, at the end of the day it's a church that wants devoted followers and donations. That is not God's religion Islam. What Allah is and how he is are thoughts of philosophy that led scholars astray so what do you think they will do to you?!

 

Stop thinking about complicated unrequired things because as Redeem said you might start thinking and saying something really extreme, obviously your demon is pushing you in this direction because he knows the confusion it will create on your unlearned mind. Islam is the word of God and everything you need is specifically provided from the beginning, I don't understand how you can be "praying and praying and reading quran" like you were saying in the other messages earlier yet say something silly like "Allah cannot have compassion or mercy" when that statement begins every quran chapter and is read at least four times every prayer.

 

I told you before, I am telling you again, I think you need to calm down and maybe see a professional councilor because you're hyperchondriac and hyperstressed. Stop worrying about so much stuff, just do your prayers imagining the path to Kaaba in front of visually, and when you're done just work on your studies or your job or play a video game or go out and meet some friends, in other words live your life as it is today and RELAX.

 

Sam

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the biggest flaw with all religions include

 

human and the inability to verify events.

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Salaams peeps,

 

I don't see how "human" is a flaw. Even the scientific method has an inability to verify events.

 

Peace

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Hi all :sl:

 

The Flaw With All Religion?

 

Is....( in my view ) They all tell you man is corrupt and untrustworthy, yet ask you to believe a mortal man's word that God told him what to say..?

 

So i cant trust man except the ones he choose, but again i have to trust the untrustworthy, corrupt man's word, as its only his word i have that God said these things.

 

mercy is not a "human" characteristic

 

Redeem would you say animals show mercy or did God only give it to us? in your view.

 

should be really careful of denying (even out of ignorance) any aspects of Allah because it can make a person a kaffir.

 

Please dont take offence to this but, this is the sort of thing that keeps me out of religion. God would do that to me for my ignorance even if i was a Muslim? That dont sound very merciful to me?

 

Also i have always been told that there was only one way to leave Islam, and that is not it?. How many ways are there or is it not limited?

 

Thanks in advance of any info

 

Peace

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Redeem would you say animals show mercy or did God only give it to us? in your view.

 

Your question reminded me of a Hadith:

 

Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:

I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Allah made mercy in one hundred parts and He retained with Him ninety-nine parts, and He has sent down upon the earth one part, and it is because of this one part that there is mutual love among the creation so much so that the animal lifts up its hoof from its young one, fearing that it might hurt it. [Muslim]

 

So most certainly, there is mercy between animals. It doesn't necessarily mean that an animal's predatory nature is lack of mercy, rather it is a built-in mechanic to hunt prey for sustenance.

 

Please dont take offence to this but, this is the sort of thing that keeps me out of religion. God would do that to me for my ignorance even if i was a Muslim? That dont sound very merciful to me?

 

No offense taken because none was intended.

 

Being a Muslim is not something that you are simply because you declare it. You have to believe and adhere to the teachings of Islam. For example, the foundation of Islam is the belief in and the worship of One God.

 

If a person were to say "I'm a Muslim, even though I don't believe that there is One God, I believe that there are three". Such a person is not Muslim for as long as they hold such belief because they have gone outside of the boundaries of Islam and the criteria for being a follower of it.

 

The topic starter said (and might I add that he has since accepted the correction, so I pray that there was no fault on him for his previous statements) that Allah has no mercy because mercy is a human characteristic.

 

Such a statement is denial of one of the 99 attributes of God, one of which is Ar-Rahman: The Most Merciful. If it were a question, it would be another thing because the seeking of knowledge is part of religion. If he had, for example, asked "Why do you we believe that Allah is merciful if human beings have that characteristic?" But a conclusion and a question are two completely different things.

 

I'd like to add two things, the first of which is that when I said "you should be really careful of denying (even out of ignorance) any aspects of Allah because it can make a person a kaffir." I did not mean that even a person who is ignorant of what they are saying will become a kaffir, rather, the topic starter should take care NOT to say such things even if he has no knowledge of it because it is a very serious thing that has led people out of Islam. Something done or said out of ignorance is nothing like that which is done with full knowledge.

 

Secondly, even though we know what actions lead us outside of Islam, there is a difference between naming the actions and stating that a specific person is no longer a Muslim. That is an entirely different (and broad) subject.

 

I'll answer your last question in a minute.

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Also i have always been told that there was only one way to leave Islam, and that is not it?. How many ways are there or is it not limited?

 

Kufr (disbelief) is the way to leave Islam but there are many ways of falling into Kufr. It's not simply done through the intention of "Hey, I think Islam's not the religion for me. I'm going to leave it." There are actions and statements that remove a person from Islam, even if the person had not intended such.

 

First and foremost is the act of Shirk. Shirk is usually defined as associating partners with Allah or attributing His characteristics to His creation. For example, believing that a dead person can forgive sins. Or willingly prostrating to an idol. I would advice you to read this article for more information on the types of Shirk (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetIslam-qa(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/en/ref/34817/shirk"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetIslam-qa(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/en/ref/34817/shirk[/url]

 

There are many acts that lead to Kufr, but not all acts of Kufr remove one from Islam.

 

Examples of things that remove one from Islam.

 

1) Knowingly denying any aspect of the Tawheed (The Oneness of Allah, the Oneness of the worship of Allah, and the attributes of Allah) or anything known to Islam.

 

2) Mocking Islam, Allah or His Messenger, even if in jest.

 

3) Believing that any law or teaching is superior to what Allah has revealed to His messenger (by allowing what is unlawful and forbidding what is lawful).

 

4) Cursing or criticizing Allah and His Messenger.

 

And so on.

 

Here is a list of things compiled by ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz, a former Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia. He has listed 10 of the most major things that nullify Islam, but there are more than that.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetIslam-qa(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/en/ref/31807/nullify%20islam%5D"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetIslam-qa(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/en/ref/31807/nullify%20islam%5D[/url]

 

Here are the major categories of Kufr and their descriptions:

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetIslam-qa(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/en/ref/21249/kufr"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetIslam-qa(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/en/ref/21249/kufr[/url]

 

Salam.

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After alot of praying and meditating and self thinking, it seems to me that the flaw with all religion is that they attempt to personify Allah, this cant be so,

 

actually Buddhism/Taoism does not personify Allah/God - Siddharta said upon asked about even the *existence* of God - "It doesn't matter. What matters is living a Good Life, unharming others.*". The problem with religion is that it attempts to embody Reality within mere words.

 

 

Allah is not human, therefore Allah cannot have mercy or compassion or even caring for that matter, these are human characteristics.

 

those who meditate to a sufficiently higher level, realise that the Human perception of Allah can ONLY be a reflection of Human perception - put another way, Humans cannot perceive of something beyond their capacities to perceive.

 

having said that, there is also a grave flaw in your reasoning that anything Human cannot also be part of Allah/Universal Conciousness. From whence comes this conclusion?

 

Allah simply transcends all these "labels" we have put on Allah. Our minds cannot comprehend Allah because we were not designed to comprehend.

 

we are alive. Therefore we can comprehend the part of Reality/Allah/God/Universal Conciousness that we are able to comprehend. It is incredibly likely we cannot comprehend ALL of the above however.

 

It is like a computer trying to comprehend emotion.

 

no on every level that can be argued on this simple phrase. There is a (admittedly, at the moment small) body of evidence to indicate that high level chaotic machines (and that includes modern processors) do indeed 'comprehend' emotions - they have no way to indicate that directly however. Wait for true AI.

 

peace and love. :sl:

 

 

*highly simplified, worth reading in more detail.

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Why humans?

 

Humans are selfish creatures that fear different.

 

We are beings that will more often than not allow ourselves to be indoctrinated into what we are brought up in and often reject anything that might alter those views that we grew up with.

 

We lie, we cheat, we steal, we are greedy and we seek power.

 

Religions are run by these humans capable of these problems and as with any place of power it will gather those who wish to use it for there own gain.

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salaam ranma,

 

Humans are selfish creatures

 

all creatures are selfish, it only depends upon how high a level your 'Self' has achieved. Personal, genetic, cultural, intellectual, spiritual... a person whos feeling of Self encompasses ALL life is still being selfish by ensuring they never hurt others, brushing ants from their path etc, it is all just a matter of perspective.

 

that fear different.

 

depends upon their upbringing. Children grown up in strong 'liberal' homes are less likely to be afraid of 'others' and new experiences, children raised in 'conservative' homes more likely to want drastic 'solutions' against otherness.

 

We are beings that will more often than not allow ourselves to be indoctrinated into what we are brought up in and often reject anything that might alter those views that we grew up with.

 

yet teenagers rebel. i would recommend robert anton wilson's 'Prometheus Rising' for a far deeper grasp of this aspect of human psychology.

 

We lie, we cheat, we steal, we are greedy and we seek power.

 

speak for yourself.

 

Religions are run by these humans capable of these problems and as with any place of power it will gather those who wish to use it for there own gain.

 

yes, alas.

 

peace and love :sl:

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I am speaking in general.

The biggest flaw with any religion is us.

 

Most religions claim to be perfect and yet we are a big component of them.

 

Its like claiming yuo have a perfect car but it still runs off of fossil fuels which polute the air and eventually wear down the engine.

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After alot of praying and meditating and self thinking, it seems to me that the flaw with all religion is that they attempt to personify Allah, this cant be so, Allah is not human, therefore Allah cannot have mercy or compassion or even caring for that matter, these are human characteristics. Allah simply transcends all these "labels" we have put on Allah. Our minds cannot comprehend Allah because we were not designed to comprehend. It is like a computer trying to comprehend emotion.

 

Almost all religions I can think of personify their god, gods, and/or goddesses. Depending on whatever your religion believes in. Islam personifies Allah a lot of ways.

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I didn't mean what I wrote in the first post. I was going through tough times as several family members had died, and some of those bad thoughts had come as a result of being intoxicated, but I have been sober since then. i am also quite sure I have depression and that also had something to do with it. I hope what I wrote on this topic did not send any on the wrong path. I thank Allah for returning me back on the right path, and apologize for anything I might have wrote in this topic.

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:sl:

 

That's wonderful to hear and all praises are due to Allah for keeping you firm on the righteous path. I pray that you overcome any current burdens that you carry, insha'Allah, if you exercise patience and put your faith in Him, you will triumph in the end.

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