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How Islamic Is Taliban?

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if we recognize someone who behaves like a Kafir or Munafiq, we might say that they have some characteristics of a kafir or munafiq

 

Salam,

Please clarify it a little bit more. Who are munafiq ? those who betray one party and still cannot be trusted by the other because they are inconsistent. Those taliban are nor with Islam neither with other religions. What they are doing is NOT AT ALL written or said ANYWHERE. If its mentioned, please qoute it here.

 

However, I you don't know the person personally then we should not use such words because we don't know the entire situation. I believe that the Taliban will a significant role for the Muslims in the future. Let's be patient

 

Firstly, a person can't go visit whole world to meet each kafir personally then perform hyopothesis and then give a final varified statement that he/she is kafir. What that specific group of people do is their code of living the so called religion. What Taliban are doing is an open-book to all of us. Furthermore, we can't make them admit it who support their back.

Secondly, we DO NOT need any kind of support from these criminals. We are Alhamdolillah Muslim, if we are made to seek help, we would contact the Muslim brothers. How can the terrorists, criminals and unlawful people help Muslims ??? at least YOU should not say this.

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if we recognize someone who behaves like a Kafir or Munafiq, we might say that they have some characteristics of a kafir or munafiq

 

Salam,

Please clarify it a little bit more. Who are munafiq ? those who betray one party and still cannot be trusted by the other because they are inconsistent. Those taliban are nor with Islam neither with other religions. What they are doing is NOT AT ALL written or said ANYWHERE. If its mentioned, please qoute it here.

 

However, I you don't know the person personally then we should not use such words because we don't know the entire situation. I believe that the Taliban will a significant role for the Muslims in the future. Let's be patient

 

Firstly, a person can't go visit whole world to meet each kafir personally then perform hyopothesis and then give a final varified statement that he/she is kafir. What that specific group of people do is their code of living the so called religion. What Taliban are doing is an open-book to all of us. Furthermore, we can't make them admit it who support their back.

Secondly, we DO NOT need any kind of support from these criminals. We are Alhamdolillah Muslim, if we are made to seek help, we would contact the Muslim brothers. How can the terrorists, criminals and unlawful people help Muslims ??? at least YOU should not say this.

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Salam,

One can NEVER learn unless and untill he/she decides what is right and what is wrong. When the basic concept itself is not clear or wrong, what kind of learning a person can get ???

 

:sl:

 

If you wish to know what causes the sky to appear blue, do you learn by passing your own opinions and refuting the opinions of others without taking them into consideration? Or do you look to scientists for answers?

 

By accusing Taliban of being munafiqun, you are not fulfilling the definition of "learning". You are stating an opinion. Opinions made by common people are based on personal idealogies and experiences. Opinions made by qualified people are based on educated guesses in the case of scientists, or the Qur'an and Hadiths in the case of Islamic scholars.

 

such kind of learning can be used to produce more taliban and terrorists

 

Actually, ignorance or disregard of Islam leads to people who do unIslamic things. Having scholars does not create Taliban-like groups.

 

but sorry to say NO SCHOLAR.

 

No scholars? Good luck getting 6 billion Muslims to follow the same way of life, in that case. The Qur'an and Hadiths can be interpreted thousands of different ways. Without scholars, everyone will follow their own brand of Islam.

 

I think if I have to maintain my Iman, I should quit this illogical debate.

 

I would like to see where I have been illogical.

 

I don't consider anything over human rights, as Allah Himself did NOT. He said He will forgive what we do regarding His commands but not what we do to people.

 

Verily, Allah forgives not that partners should be set up with Him (in worship), but He forgives except that to whom He wills; and whoever sets up partners with Allah in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin [4:48]

 

A crime against Allah is greater than a crime against humanity.

 

However, let me argue from another angle. If Allah does not forgive what we do to other people, shouldn't you be careful in making statements against people? Calling them hypocrites when you do not see into their hearts?

 

You and your team are just taking Islam somewhere else in nonsense debates

 

"My team"? The only person who has been in a discussion with you thus far has been me. You shouldn't blame other people for things they have not done to you.

 

If you continue to insult forum members and IF officials, you will be banned. Consider this a warning.

 

we come here to share knowledge

 

Look through the various topics on the forum. People share knowledge on a daily basis. Calling people hypocrites or accusing people of being worse than disbelievers is not sharing knowledge. And being adviced not to do so is not censorship.

 

not to hit our head with the statements that have no evidence no saying nothing t show.

 

Did you not agree that Allah is the one who knows what lies in the hearts of men and what their level of iman is? So then why do you insist with your accusations? Be careful of slander.

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:sl:

 

Since you don't believe that decisions of who is or is not a munafiq should be left to those with knowledge, why do you say that the Taliban are hypocrites? What things have they done in particular that classify them as such?

 

Here is an article explaining hypocrisy in detail.

 

The danger of hypocrisy

 

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What is hypocrisy and how dangerous is it for the Muslims?

 

Praise be to Allaah.

 

Hypocrisy is a serious sickness and a great crime. It means making an outward display of Islam whilst inwardly concealing kufr. Hypocrisy is more dangerous than kufr (disbelief) and the punishment for it is more severe, because it is kufr mixed with Islam and its harmful effects are greater. Hence Allaah will put the hypocrites in the lowest level of Hell, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“Verily, the hypocrites will be in the lowest depth (grade) of the Fire; no helper will you find for them[al-Nisaa’ 4:145]

 

The hypocrites are always confused, always planning deceit and plots. Although outwardly they appear to be with the believers, inwardly they are with the kaafireen. So sometimes they are inclined towards the believers and sometimes they are inclined towards the kaafireen.

 

“(They are) swaying between this and that, belonging neither to these nor to those; and he whom Allaah sends astray, you will not find for him a way (to the truth — Islam)â€[al-Nisaa’ 4:143 – interpretation of the meaning]

 

Because of the corruption of their hearts, the hypocrites are the most averse of mankind to the religion of Allaah, as Allaah tells us about them (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“And when it is said to them: ‘Come to what Allaah has sent down and to the Messenger (Muhammad),’ you (Muhammad) see the hypocrites turn away from you (Muhammad) with aversionâ€

 

[al-Nisaa’ 4:61]

 

The dealings of the hypocrites revolve around their own interests. When they meet the believers, they make a show of belief and loyalty, in order to deceive the believers and as an action of dissimulation, hoping for whatever good and war-booty they have. But when they meet their masters and chiefs, they say, we are with you in your shirk and kufr. Allaah says concerning them (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“And when they meet those who believe, they say: “We believe,†but when they are alone with their Shayaateen (devils — polytheists, hypocrites), they say: “Truly, we are with you; verily, we were but mocking

 

Allaah mocks at them and gives them increase in their wrong-doing to wander blindlyâ€[al-Baqarah 2:14-15]

 

The hypocrites have many characteristics, the worst and most serious of which is disbelief in Allaah. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“And when it is said to them (hypocrites): ‘Believe as the people (followers of Muhammad, Al-Ansaar and Al-Muhaajiroon) have believed,’ they say: ‘Shall we believe as the fools have believed?’ Verily, they are the fools, but they know notâ€[al-Baqarah 2:13]

 

Among their characteristics are enmity and envy (hasad) towards the believers, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“If good befalls you (O Muhammad), it grieves them, but if a calamity overtakes you, they say: ‘We took our precaution beforehand’ and they turn away rejoicingâ€[al-Tawbah 9:50]

 

Among their characteristics is mockery of Allaah, His Messenger and His religion. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“If you ask them (about this), they declare: ‘We were only talking idly and joking.’ Say: ‘Was it at Allaah, and His Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and His Messenger that you were mocking?’

 

Make no excuse; you disbelieved after you had believedâ€[al-Tawbah 9:65-66]

 

Among their characteristics is that they spread corruption on earth, with disbelief, hypocrisy and sins. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“And when it is said to them: ‘Make not mischief on the earth,’ they say: ‘We are only peacemakers.’

 

Verily, they are the ones who make mischief, but they perceive notâ€[al-Baqarah 2:11-12]

 

Among their characteristics are slander and lies. Allaah tells us about them (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“They swear by Allaah that they are truly, of you while they are not of you, but they are a people (hypocrites) who are afraid (that you may kill them)â€[al-Tawbah 9:56]

 

Among their characteristics is that they enjoin what is evil and forbid what is good, and they are stingy with their wealth. Allaah says concerning them (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“The hypocrites, men and women, are one from another; they enjoin (on the people) Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief and polytheism of all kinds and all that Islam has forbidden), and forbid (people) from Al-Ma‘roof (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam orders one to do), and they close their hands [from giving (spending in Allaah’s Cause) alms]. They have forgotten Allaah, so He has forgotten them. Verily, the hypocrites are the Faasiqoon (rebellious, disobedient to Allaah)â€[al-Tawbah 9:67]

 

Among their characteristics are greed and avarice:

 

“And of them are some who accuse you (O Muhammad) in the matter of (the distribution of) the alms. If they are given part thereof, they are pleased, but if they are not given thereof, behold! They are enraged![al-Tawbah 9: 58 – interpretation of the meaning]

 

Among their characteristics are those which were described by the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him):

 

“There are four (characteristics), whoever has all of them is a complete hypocrite, and whoever has some of them has some element of hypocrisy, unless he gives it up: when he speaks, he lies; when he makes a treaty, he betrays it; when he makes a promise, he breaks it; when he quarrels, he resorts to insults.â€(Narrated by Muslim, 53)

 

Among their characteristics is a concern with appearances and fancy speech whilst they are inwardly corrupt. Allaah says concerning them (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“And when you look at them, their bodies please you; and when they speak, you listen to their words. They are as blocks of wood propped up. They think that every cry is against them. They are the enemies, so beware of them. May Allaah curse them! How are they denying (or deviating from) the Right Path?â€[al-Munaafiqoon 63:4]

 

If the kuffaar are obvious enemies from without, then the hypocrites are hidden enemies from within. They are more harmful and more dangerous to the Muslims, because they mix with them and know their situation. Allaah has decreed that the ultimate destiny of the kuffaar and hypocrites will be in Hell:

 

“Surely, Allaah will collect the hypocrites and disbelievers all together in Hellâ€[al-Nisaa’ 4:140 – interpretation of the meaning]

 

But because of the seriousness of the harm they cause, the hypocrites will be in the lowest level of Hell, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“Verily, the hypocrites will be in the lowest depth (grade) of the Fireâ€[al-Nisaa’ 4:145]

 

Because the danger posed to the Muslim ummah by the kuffaar and hypocrites is so great, Allaah commanded His Messenger to strive against them:

“O Prophet (Muhammad)! Strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be severe against them; their abode will be Hell, and worst indeed is that destinationâ€

 

[al-Tahreem 66:9 – interpretation of the meaning]

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:sl:

 

You could have a Muslim man who murdered a thousand people, raped just as many women and caused endless destruction, and if ANYONE made a claim about the person that is part of knowledge only with Allah (i.e. calling him a kaffir or munafiq), then I would argue just as fervently against their statement. Do I support such a person? Assume so, it matters not. But let's not lose our own boundaries.

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:sl:

Much of what is being circulated about how bad is Taliban, is simply western media fabrications.

But I can't claim to know the truth about them either. What is clear here is that the US and its allies have no business who rules Afghanistan. If the Afghans like Taliban, then thy have all the right to choose them to rule the country. No country ever invaded the US to oust the democrats or republicans.. likewise, its too evil and arrogant of the US to fight Taliban, who never left Afghanistan, claiming that they threaten the security of the US.

 

Afghanistan suffered over hundreds of years from invasions and occupations, and people lived in misery for centuries. Yet, they manage every time to bury the occupiers in their blessed lands, and insha'Allah this time also they will bury every single US soldier that comes to kill the poor and peaceful Afghan people.

 

The US army is so evil, this world can never be safe as long as they are all around the world. I hope they suffer as much casualties everywhere overseas as possible, enough to convince them to stay home where they belong. And subhan Allah it looks like probably in the near future the US will have to make a choice between feeding its own people or spending the money in killing others abroad.

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:sl:

 

You could have a Muslim man who murdered a thousand people, raped just as many women and caused endless destruction, and if ANYONE made a claim about the person that is part of knowledge only with Allah (i.e. calling him a kaffir or munafiq), then I would argue just as fervently against their statement. Do I support such a person? Assume so, it matters not. But let's not lose our own boundaries.

 

salam,

 

If calling some one "kafir" is what bothers us (as a more serious offense) than the crimes those people do, it means we are conveniently coverning up their crimes. In the Quran those who forbid what Allah has permitted and those who permit what Allah has forbidden are also called Kafir. Definitely forbiding girls from learning is forbiding what Allah has permitted. Targeting school going girls, buring down girls schools, pouring acid on girls who attend classes are a direct challenge to the commandments of Allah. It is curtailing the freedom of the people and declaring something haraam a halaal.

 

The existence of hypocritical people who emerge in the name of God and religion, but actually organise themselves to commit wickedness condemned by Allah, is indicated in the Quran. One verse talks about a gang of nine men who planned to murder the Prophet by swearing in the name of God:

 

There was a gang of nine men in the city causing corruption in the land and not putting things right. They said, Let us make an oath to one another by God that we will fall on him and his family in the night and then say to his protector, We did not witness the destruction of his family and we are telling the truth. They hatched a plot and We hatched a plot while they were not aware."(Quran, 27:48-50)

 

As this incident described in the Quran reveals, the fact that people do things "in the name of God" or even swear in His name, in other words that they use the kind of language designed to show themselves as very religious, does not mean that what they do is in conformity with religion. On the contrary, what they do can be quite against the will of God and the morality of religion.

 

You are a respectful lady member in this forum and the reason why you are able to communicate Islam is due your broad learning (not just Islamic subjects) including English, computers, communication skills, etc. Each and every muslim girl has got the freedom to learn and to acquire knowledge. Forbidding this is forbidding what Allah has permited and those who do so, no matter who they are, according to Quran are to be called KAAFIR KAAFIR KAAFIR.

 

Additionly, in a discussion like this, why don't you condemn their acts first before discussing whether it is fair to call them Kafir or not. You are conveniently ignoring the the material points raised.

 

wassalam

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ASALAMU ALAIKUM

 

STOP this Ignrorance of Calling Muslim, KAFFIR

 

Fear Allah as it should be Feared and do not call a muslim Kafir in spite of the sins

 

LET ME REMIND YOU

 

that

It is reported on the authority of Ibn `Umar that the Prophet (may peace and blessings be upon him) said: Any person who calls his brother: O Unbeliever! (then the truth of this label) would return to one of them. If it is true, (then it is) as he asserted, (but if it is not true), then it returns to him (and thus the person who made the accusation is an Unbeliever). [Muslim]

 

-------

From 'al-'Udhr bil-Jahl' (The Excuse of Ignorance), Translated by Abu Talha Dawud ibn Ronald Burbank and adapted by Abu Muntasir ibn Mohar 'Ali

 

The Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam said: "He who says to his brother 'O Disbeliever', then it returns upon one of them." [1] He also said: "And he who accuses a believer of Kufr (disbelief) then it is like killing him." [2]

 

Imaam an-Nawawee said, "They differ as regards interpretation of this "returning", so it is said, "Kufr returns upon him if he is making that lawful", and this is far from the context of the narration, and it is said, "it is taken to refer to the Khawaarij", since they declare believers to be Kaafiroon (disbelievers)."[3]

 

Imaam al-Haafidh (Ibn Hajr) says, "And what is correct is that the hadith (narration from the Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam was said as a warning against a Muslim saying that to his brother. It is said, "What returns upon him is his speaking ill of his brother and the sin of declaring him a kaafir (disbeliever)", and this is reasonable. It is also said, "It is to be feared that this will lead him into kufr", just as it is said, "sins leads towards kufr". Thus it is feared that if he continues in that and persists in it then he will have a bad end. I prefer from these sayings that it refers to the one who says it to someone from whom nothing is known except Islaam and there is no justification or reason for him to claim that he is a kaafir. So in such a case he becomes a kaafir himself because of that, and this will be explained. So the meaning of the hadith is that his judgement of takfeer (making someone a kaafir) returns upon himself, so what is meant is takfeer not kufr. So it is as if he passed judgement of kuft upon himself since he passed this judgement on one who is like him (ie. a muslim)"[4]

 

Imaam ash-Shawkaanee said, "Judging that a Muslim has left Islaam and entered into Kufr is something that is not fitting for a Muslim who believes in Allaah and the Last Day except with a proof (Burhaan) which is clearer than the daytime sun, since it is established in the authentic hadith reported by a group of Companions that he who says to his brother "O Kaafir!" Then it returns back to one of them." In another wording, "Whoever addresses a man with Kufr, or says 'Enemy of Allaah' and he is not that, then it returns back upon him"[5]

 

So in these ahadith (plural of hadith) and others similar to them, there is the severest reprimand and the greatest warning against hurrying to perform takfeer. Allaah, The Mighty and Majestic says:

 

" ... and such as open their breasts to disbelief ... " [soorah an-Nahl 16:106]

 

So what has to be the case is that the heart embraces kufr and is at peace with it, and the soul is satisfied with it. So the appearance of wicked beliefs only is not to be taken into account here, especially if one is ignorant of the fact that they are contrary to Islaam. Likewise account will not be taken of the appearance of an action of kufr for the one who did not intend to leave Islaam by it and enter into kufr, and likewise account will not be taken of a word spoken by a Muslim which is a saying of kufr, when he does not believe what it means."[6]

 

So where do they stand those who hasten to perform takfeer of the Muslims in relation to the saying of the Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam: "Abusing a Muslim is open sin and killing him is kufr" [7] And in relation to his saying: "The Muslim is the Brother of a Muslim, he does not oppress or forsake him." [8] Also in relation to his saying: "All of the Muslim to the Muslim is inviolable; his blood, his wealth and his honour." [9] ?

 

Imaam Al-Qurtubee says in his tafseer (exegesis/explanation) of Sooratul Hujuraat: " ... and His (Allaah) saying: "lest your deeds be rendered fruitless while you perceive it not'." [soorah al-Hujuraat 49:2] does not mean that a person becomes a kaafir without knowing since just as a person does not become a believer except through choosing eemaan (faith) over kufr, then likewise a believer does not become a kaafir without intending kufr and choosing it, and there is consensus (ijma') regarding this."[10]

 

Footnotes

 

1. Reported by al-Bukhaaree, Muslim, Maalik, at-Tirmidhee and Abu Dawood.

 

2. Reported by al-Bukhaaree.

 

3. Abbreviated from an-Nawawee's "Sharh" (explanation) of Saheeh Muslim (2/50)

 

4. Abbreviated from "Fathul-Baaree" (10/466)

 

5. Hadith reported by Muslim (2/49 - Book of Eemaan).

 

6. Taken from "as-Sailul-Jarraar" (4/578) and adapted.

 

7. Reported by al-Bukhaaree and Muslim.

 

8. Reported by Muslim.

 

9. Reported by Muslim, Abu Daawood and at-Tirmidhee.

 

10. Tafseer of al-Qurtubee (7/6128).

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Assalamu Alaikum, Aisha Haq, you sent me a PM. and asked me to reply on the Forum, so here I am. I see MashaAllah our Administrator replied here too, so did brother Albani and I respect both of these brothers and agree with what they said. I would also like to mention that I agree with what Ms. Redeem has said too.

 

Redeem is a Moderator of the Forum, and a good one, saying that, it does'nt mean you or I have to agree with the moderators or Administrator in every aspect, there are ways of debating or commuicating with others, we cannot get frustrated and agitated if people dont agree with our position on certain issues.

 

This is not a Taliban Bashing Forum, nor it is a Forum where other members are not shown respect. there are rules that need to be followed and the rules are posted, which need to be read and implemented.

 

The Media has done so much negative publicity of Muslims that even if by chance they show some real news we have doubts. Remember the story about the boy who screamed Wolf.

 

You have a negative attitue towards the Taliban and you think they are worse than the worst then there are others many scholars of Islam included who think the Talban are good muslims better then most Muslim, so why should we agree with you and not them??? You cannot get frustrated if people don't agree with you, this is an open Forum and we have the right to form our own opinion. Every one is intelligent enough and should not be looked down. My thinking is as soon as a person starts thinking they are something then thei downfall starts, there is always a person who is smarter than us.

 

I don't see the wisdom of trying to learn something when you have already decided this is this. My way and the way of most is you get youself into a subject with no bias, learn, research, live in the conditions for a few years, experience and then you can say if something is good or bad.

 

Lastly, leave alone caling a BAD MUSLIM (non practicing) a Kaafir or Munafiq, we shouldn't be calling any Non Muslim a Kaafir or Munafiq, because first of all you don't know what is in their heart and secondly you don't know when Allah will change someone's heart. Let Allah be the Judge, and don't take matters in your hand, because none of us have the right too.

 

Take care, Assalamu alaikum.

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salam,

 

 

 

You are a respectful lady member in this forum and the reason why you are able to communicate Islam is due your broad learning (not just Islamic subjects) including English, computers, communication skills, etc. Each and every muslim girl has got the freedom to learn and to acquire knowledge. Forbidding this is forbidding what Allah has permited and those who do so, no matter who they are, according to Quran are to be called KAAFIR KAAFIR KAAFIR.

 

Additionly, in a discussion like this, why don't you condemn their acts first before discussing whether it is fair to call them Kafir or not.

wassalam

 

First read my post above

 

i am outraged of how someone can rush and call Muslim a kafir and as u sayong whats is improving their condition?

 

you have clearly with your ignorance overstepped the bounds and taking a big responisibility of making takfeer on a group of people!!!!

 

 

Quran no where says that a sinful Muslim becomes kAFIR, NOR ANYWHERE FOR THAT MATTER that Muslim girls should mix in contrary there is clear rule about against free mixing.

 

thirdly it is the way of the khawarijis to call a Muslim kafir becouse of His/her sins.

 

Fourth your statment are worst than that what they done, becouse putting one out of islaam means that person or group of people will be in hell fire forever and who are you to claim that? you have what it takes to distinguish whats kufr becouse it is clear that you dont know what kufr is and is not

 

i suggest first learn about islaam and what islaam teaches than speak out of anger and desire and wishes/emotions cos it is clearly a trend of youth to do this and you are not different.

 

we dont need to argue about what taliban is and not is but your stament should be somthign you must repent and seek proper advice from knowledge people , becouse no where in Quran or hadeeth or the muslim Scholars have made takfeer in a group of Muslim

 

Making takfir in a person is great resposibility let alone in a group of muslims.

 

one more thing

non Muslims are kafirs simple as that.

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Forbidding this is forbidding what Allah has permited and those who do so, no matter who they are, according to Quran are to be called KAAFIR KAAFIR KAAFIR.

 

:sl: brother

 

There is wisdom behind the reason of prohibiting people to accuse others of disbelief or hypocrisy.

 

1) It is a grave accusation that has the power to change a person's reputation in society. Imagine that Ahmed says to a group of people, "Ali is a kaffir because he does not pray Salaat". What does such a statement do? It ruins Ali's reputation.

 

2) Disbelief and hypocrisy among Muslims are things punishable by death. If we had the freedom to accuse people of things that result in the capital punishment, then everyone would be accusing anyone they dislike or that they don't trust.

 

It's the same thing with Zina, fornication. Zina is a punishable sin. Accusations of zina cannot be made freely, they require 4 witnesses. And the one who accuses someone wrongfully gets the punishment.

 

Secondly, disobeying Allah does not make one a kaffir outright. Otherwise, we would all be disbelievers for every time we have lied, stolen, cheated, or broken any of Allah's laws. There are bad leaders who fail to enforce Allah's laws. But does that mean that they are no longer Muslim? Allah knows best. That's all I was saying. And wrongful accusations end up removing a person from Islam.

 

I haven't forbidden anything at all. I only adviced the sister to be careful. And prophet Muhammad himself forbade accusing people of kufr, when he said that the accuser is the one who falls into kufr because of what he has said.

 

As for condemning the Taliban, I have already commented on the issue. I don't know what is truth or falsehood concerning them. I hear both sides of the argument constantly enough that it's difficult to get a clear picture. Secondly, the Taliban are not on this forum. But sister Aisha Haq was. My discussion with her was more relevant than anything I might have said about the Taliban, who will never receive my words.

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Asalaamu Alaikum

 

This may be my last post seeing that i may be banned because of what i am about to write...I dont know.

 

Taliban are what the Prophet (S.A.W.S) described as thayful monsoora, the safe sect. They are at the moment the ONLY ones who are fighting for Allah's religion. The saviour of mankind has described them. From the beginning of time til the end of time there will always be a group fighting for this Ummah. The will NEVER be misguided. Verily they are the ones on the straight path.

Along with our brother and even our sisters in Afghanistan, Somalia, Pakistan and all the other countries. Who are we to slander them?! Who are we to say "Oof!" against them?! Did we leave our families, our mothers, fathers, children to go and fight in the way of Allah?! How DARE we say anything but good about them?!

Because of them Islam is still here. Because of them Islam is finally being established fully and it has failed to do so in the past 600 years!

 

I know many of you dont agree with me but Allah is to judge. Speaking of the concept of beating women. As a punishment, that is allowed. Umar ibn Al Khattab used to use that punishment. 80 Lashes. Men AND women. I hear women asking for equality ALL the time! Well now they are getting it. "Oh we wanna be able to go to Jummah prayer." We wanna do this. We wanna do that.

 

Did you know that in the time of Umar he forbade women to go to Jummah prayer?!

So the women went to Aisha (R.A) and what did she say?

If they knew what Umar knew about going out they would lock themselves in the house!

 

Can i just ask something, and i want everyone to answer truthfully.

What do we follow?

What is RIGHT?

Or what we WANT to follow?

 

Maybe you don't like Taliban because you dont like Allah's religion...

And by the way Taliban DO NOT beat women and children unjustly!

If a women deserves it then she gets it.

Same with a child.

 

I'n the time of Prophet Musa (Moses) Allah told him that there was someone more knowledgable than him.

When Musa (A.S) found that person what did he say?

"To understand me, you have to have patience with me."

Along the journey that man grabbed a kid and slit his throat.

Musa (A.S) was astonished and asked why. And what was his reply?

"That child was going to be a tyrant ruler when he grows up."

 

So you see when someone deserves something they should get it. Whether it is reward or whether it is punishment.

Verily the hypocrites know who they are. And Allah will judge.

 

I may be banned after i post this but it was something that had to be said.

 

Wasalaam.

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Asalaamu Alaikum

 

This may be my last post seeing that i may be banned because of what i am about to write...I dont know.

 

Taliban are what the Prophet (S.A.W.S) described as thayful monsoora, the safe sect. They are at the moment the ONLY ones who are fighting for Allah's religion. The saviour of mankind has described them. From the beginning of time til the end of time there will always be a group fighting for this Ummah. The will NEVER be misguided. Verily they are the ones on the straight path.

Along with our brother and even our sisters in Afghanistan, Somalia, Pakistan and all the other countries. Who are we to slander them?! Who are we to say "Oof!" against them?! Did we leave our families, our mothers, fathers, children to go and fight in the way of Allah?! How DARE we say anything but good about them?!

Because of them Islam is still here. Because of them Islam is finally being established fully and it has failed to do so in the past 600 years!

 

I know many of you dont agree with me but Allah is to judge. Speaking of the concept of beating women. As a punishment, that is allowed. Umar ibn Al Khattab used to use that punishment. 80 Lashes. Men AND women. I hear women asking for equality ALL the time! Well now they are getting it. "Oh we wanna be able to go to Jummah prayer." We wanna do this. We wanna do that.

 

Did you know that in the time of Umar he forbade women to go to Jummah prayer?!

So the women went to Aisha (R.A) and what did she say?

If they knew what Umar knew about going out they would lock themselves in the house!

 

Can i just ask something, and i want everyone to answer truthfully.

What do we follow?

What is RIGHT?

Or what we WANT to follow?

 

Maybe you don't like Taliban because you dont like Allah's religion...

And by the way Taliban DO NOT beat women and children unjustly!

If a women deserves it then she gets it.

Same with a child.

 

I'n the time of Prophet Musa (Moses) Allah told him that there was someone more knowledgable than him.

When Musa (A.S) found that person what did he say?

"To understand me, you have to have patience with me."

Along the journey that man grabbed a kid and slit his throat.

Musa (A.S) was astonished and asked why. And what was his reply?

"That child was going to be a tyrant ruler when he grows up."

 

So you see when someone deserves something they should get it. Whether it is reward or whether it is punishment.

Verily the hypocrites know who they are. And Allah will judge.

 

I may be banned after i post this but it was something that had to be said.

 

Wasalaam.

 

 

Asalamu alaikum

 

Sister you claim is wrong and baseless , taliban you find in them all sort of muslim in them they are mixed sufi ,ikhawnees and mainly deobandies which you find alot in pakistand india and afghanistan they are offshot of sufism similar to tabllegh jamat so on this shows that they are not safe or righteous group, it is clearly that they dont have scholars behind them as they also their manhaj is wrong too.

 

ISLAAM is NOT what taliban proclaim clearly and fully this undoubtfully wrong to say that taliban are establishing islaam as quran and sunnah the real sharia law.

 

 

 

May Allah guide them and unite the muslim in tru path that is the path of salaf us salih

 

 

I warned that this will be a sect/party discussion . so it should be closed

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Assalamu alaikum, there are good practicing Muslims and trouble makers in every group, so please let us not name groups here, because it will start another argument and people will start becoming judgemental.

 

It's time this topic is closed I think, for it is taking a sectual turn.

 

Salaam.

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Assalamualikum

 

We should support and help our Muslim brothers anywhere in the world wether we agree with them or not. If there are mistakes in certain Muslim brothers then we should advise them and help them. The Taliban might not be perfect but they are trying to establish Islam back on the global/political scale. How it should be. Name me people other than the Mujahideen who are more worthy of our respect? The dogs sitting in Riyadh? The dogs who betrayed us who are sitting in Islamabad or Egypt or Syia or Iran?

 

The Mujahideen even break nationalistic barriers. Dont you see them wether in Pakistan or North Africa they carry the same flag of Islam. They are fighting the enemies of Islam who have been killing us for so long and some Muslims have the audacity to call them deviants and terrorists? By Allah they might not be perfect but they are the best of this Ummah in our time. Where were the Soldiers of Saudi Arabia or Pakistan or Egypt? Where were these so called "muslim" leaders and armies when we were raped and bombed in Afghanistan and Gaza? Where were they last month when two of our precious sisters were raped by the Hindus in kashmir?!

 

By Allah atleast they are better than the Dogs sitting Riyadh. Wallaahi they are better than the so called "kings" in Saudi Arabia and other countries in teh Muslim world

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Assalamu Alaikum, Please check your language brothers andsisters and don't let your emotions get you carried away.

 

Salaam.

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:sl:

I'm really astonished to see that some of us Muslims attack Taliban over some trivial sectarian side matters. Can't you see, like sister Umm Khattab mentioned, they are the Muslims in the front line of jihad today. Filthy American and western troops are everywhere on their Muslim lands, and so taliban is doing real jihad right now, sacrificing their lives and the lives of their families and children to defend Islam and Islamic lands. How dare we, in such stressful times, sit in the comfort of our rooms and critisize them over minor accusations, when we should in fact pray all the time for them, so that Allah Al-Mighty grant them victory over the enemies of Islam.

 

Any Muslim group that defends its land against US or western fllthy occupations troops, should deserve our prayers and utmost respect, be them sunni, shia, sufi or whatever. Taliban, chechen fighters, hamas, hezb'Ollah are all some of the best Muslims of today. Jihad, when the occupiers come to your doorsteps, would make you in the highest degree among all Muslims. Nothing else can get you that high a degree.

 

Even if a kafir group fought the US troops, I would definitely support and pray for their victory. The ultimate goal of us all should be to see the inhumane, ruthless, blood-thirst, killingmaniac US army within their own borders, minding their own business, defending their own stolen country, and living on the bodies of its native American people that they slaughtered and buried alive in millions, 400 years ago. I know how difficult that would be for someone who is used to kill everyday, but perhaps they could try killing each other for a change, may be that would quench their thirst for fresh blood.

 

Let's all forget our small childesh differences, and focus only on supporting our brothers and sisters who are fighting the kuffar and enemies of Islam out of their Muslim lands. Let's pray that Allah :sl: 's hands be over their hands, so that they have the upper hand and bury each and every American and western soldier who dare come to their doorsteps. Insha'Allah Afghanistan woul be the American army's last destination, and the grave yard of all foreign invading troops, insha'Allah, ameen.

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Asalamu alaikum

 

and this should be my last post inshallah on this topic

 

Islaam and sunnah is clear who ever wishe to follwo it will see who is the right thing to do in times of fitnah

 

there will be no way to victory other than uniting what united the early Muslim , innovations and misguidance cant be in one place to build up the truth cant mix with falsehood

 

it doesnt matter the intention , the means matters equal to the intention if intention is wrong then there is no benefit also the mean the path choosen to achive the intention has to be right same as the intention else it is vain.

 

 

I urge to all to read the following i will post and be atentive what is said there

An Explanation Of Sharh us Sunnah Of Imaam

Al-Barbahaari By Shaykh Allaamah Ahmed Ibn Yahya An Najmee

 

“Know that people never introduce an innovation until they abandon its like from the Sunnah. So, beware of newly invented matters, since every newly invented matter is an innovation and every innovation is misguidance and its people are in the Fire.”

 

Explanation:

The author intended that whomsoever abandons the Sunnah and introduces an innovation

has fallen into two hideous crimes:

Firstly: They have abandoned the Sunnah.

Secondly: That they have introduced an innovation.

The invention of innovations is connected to the abandonment of the Sunan. There is not a slave who introduces an innovation except that they abandon a Sunnah. So beware of

falling into this prohibition whereby contradicting what you have been commanded. Allaah, the Mighty and Majestic, will never reward someone unless they follow the Sunnah of the His Messenger (Sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam), and whomsoever abandons something of the Sunnah has surely forsaken something from the Qur’aan, because Allaah the Mighty

and Majestic, in many verses in His Book, commanded that his Messenger (Sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) be followed, an example being the saying of Allaah the Most High:

“O you who believe! Answer Allaah (by obeying Him) and (His) Messenger (Sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) when he calls you to that which will give you life, and know that Allaah comes in between a person and his heart (i.e. He prevents an evil person to

decide anything). And verily to Him you shall (all) be gathered.” 1

 

“And fear the Fitnah (affliction and trial, etc.) which affects not in particular (only) those of you who do wrong (but it may afflict all the good and the bad people), and know that Allaah is Severe in punishment.”2

---------

Here, Allaah the Mighty and Majestic has informed us that refusing to respond to Allaah and

His Messenger (Sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) is a reason for being afflicted with a Fitnah

that doesn’t only affect the oppressive, rather it encompasses all.

Allaah the Most High said:

“Say (O Muhammad to mankind): "If you (really) love Allaah then follow me (i.e. accept Islamic Monotheism, follow the Qur’aan and the Sunnah), Allaah will love youand forgive you of your sins. And Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”3

The threat, for abandoning the Sunan and introducing innovations, is a severe threat as mentioned in the verses of Surah al-Anfaal and as found in Surah An-Noor:

“And when they are called to Allaah (i.e. His Words, the Qur’aan) and His Messenger (Sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam), to judge between them, lo! A party of them refuse (to come) and turn away.

“But if the right is with them, they come to him willingly with submission.

“Is there a disease in their hearts? Or do they doubt or fear lest Allaah and His Messenger (Sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) should wrong them in judgment. Nay, it is they themselves who are the Zâlimûn (polytheists, hypocrites and wrong-doers, etc.).”4

Also the saying of Allaah the Most High:

“And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad Sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers' way. We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell -

what an evil destination.”5

 

And as the Prophet (Sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

"All of my nation will enter paradise except those who refuse.

They said, O Messenger of Allah, who will refuse?

He responded, Those who obey me will enter paradise and those who disobeyed me have refused."

 

That is why the innovator is disobedient to Allaah and His Messenger, he is a follower of his own lusts, and he rates himself, because it is as if his actions are saying that his opinion and desires are superior to what the Messenger (Sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) came with.Beware of being from these types of people, and being threatened with the hellfire; and refuge is sought with Allaah.

And all success lies with Allaah.

 

1 Soorah Al-Anfaal: 24

2 Soorah Al-Anfaal: 25

3 Surah Aal-‘Imraan: 31

4 Surah An-Noor: 48-50

5 Surah An-Nisaa: 115

 

---------

 

another point is ...

 

Know that leaving the correct path occurs in two ways. Firstly: that a man strays from the correct path intending nothing but good, so his error is not to be followed since it leads to destruction. (Secondly), a man who deliberately opposes the truth and acts contrary to the Pious ones who came before him, he is astray, leading others astray, a rebellious devil within the Ummah. It is a

duty upon those who know of him to warn the people against him and to explain his condition to them so that no one falls into his innovation and is destroyed. (Sharh us Sunnah Of Imaam Al-Barbahaari)

 

explanation

 

If the author would have been a bit more specific about when a person is considered to be destroyed and when this judgment is applied to them by saying:

‘He would be destroyed if he dies and does not repent,’ (it would have been better).I say: Merely intending to do good without adhering to the straight path, which Allaah (revealed) and his Messenger (Sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) conveyed, is

not sufficient.

An example of this is the (story) narrated by (‘Amr Ibn Salamah) who said:

“We used to sit by the door of 'Abdullaah ibn Mas'ood before the Morning Prayer, so that when he came out we would walk with him to the Masjid. (One day) Aboo Moosa al-Ash'aree came to us and said, "Has Aboo 'Abd ar-Rahmaan come out yet?"

We replied, "No." So he sat down with us until he came out. When he came out, we all stood along with him, so Aboo Moosa said to him, "O Abu 'Abd ar-Rahmaan! I have just seen something in the Masjid which I deemed to be evil, but all praise is

for Allaah, I did not see anything except good." He enquired, "Then what is it?"

 

(Aboo Moosa) replied, "If you live you will see it. I saw in the Masjid people sitting in circles awaiting the Prayer. In each circle they had pebbles in their hands and a man would say, 'Repeat Allaahu Akbar a hundred times.' So they would repeat it a hundred times. Then he would say, 'Say Laa ilaaha illallaah a hundred times.' So they would say it a hundred times. Then he would say, 'Say SubhaanAllaah a hundred times.' So they would say it a hundred times." (Ibn Mas'ood) asked, "What did you say to them?" (Aboo Moosa) said, "I did not say anything to them. Instead I waited to hear your view or what you declared." (Ibn Mas'ood) replied, "Would that you had ordered them to count up the evil deeds they acquired and assured them

that their good deeds would not be lost!" Then we went along with him (Ibn Mas'ood) until he came to one of these circles and stood and said, "What is this which I see you doing?" They replied, "O Abu 'Abd ar-Rahmaan! These are pebbles

upon which we are counting takbeer, tahleel and tasbeeh." He said, "Count up your evil deeds. I assure you that none of your good deeds will be lost. Woe to you, O Ummah of Muhammad (Sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam)! How quickly you go to

destruction! These are the Companions of your Prophet and who are widespread. There are his clothes which have not yet decayed and his bowl which is unbroken. By Him in Whose Hand is my soul! Either you are upon a Religion better guided

than the Religion of Muhammad (Sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) or that you are opening the door of misguidance." They said, "O Abu 'Abd ar-Rahmaan! By Allaah, we only intended good." He said, "How many there are who intend good but do not

achieve it. Indeed Allaah's Messenger said to us, 'A people will recite the Qur'aan but it will not pass beyond their throats.' By Allah! I do not know, perhaps most of them are from you." Then he left them. ‘Amr ibn Salamah said: We saw most of those people fighting against us on the day of Nahrawaan, along with the Khawaarij.” Reported by Ad-Daarimee.1

This proves that a good intention alone is not enough because every action has to fulfill two conditions:

1. The action has to be performed sincerely for the sake of Allaah.

2. The action has to be done in accordance with what the Messenger of Allaah

(Sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) legislated.

The people of innovation always seek to draw closer to Allaah but are unfamiliar with the correct way to do this and they do not have adequate knowledge to prevent them from practicing innovation. However, if a person in this situation is truly sincere, then Allaah will facilitate it for them to meet someone who will educate them, clarify to them the (truth) and protect them from the evil of the people of innovation, who always warn against listening to genuine advisors. If he then chooses to repent, Allaah will accept his repentance but if he remains upon innovation then his affair rests with Allaah, whether He chooses to pardon or punish him.

Then the author said:

(Secondly), a man who deliberately opposes the truth and acts contrary to the Pious ones who came before him, he is astray, leading others astray, a rebellious devil within the Ummah. It is a duty upon those who know of him to warn the people against him and to explain his condition to them so that no one falls into his innovation and is destroyed.

Indeed, it is compulsory upon everyone who is aware of the truth to support it. Any innovator who knows the truth, and it has been made clear to them that this (act/belief) is a misguided innovation, but refuses to abstain from it and instead adheres to and defends it is astray, leading others astray, a rebellious devil within the Ummah.

 

It is necessary to inform the people of his real condition and warn them against him otherwise he will mislead some of the students of knowledge, deceive them and call them to his innovation. Nothing should hinder someone who understands his state from clarifying it to the people and warning against him - it is upon them to do this to fulfill their duty - so that those who do not recognise his innovation may forsake him. Whoever claims that criticising the people of innovation leads to disunity and

separation is misguided because he desires that the Ummah unite upon misguidance. Islaam does not tolerate this kind of (attitude); Islaam does not accept this (behaviour). Abstaining from clarifying (the truth) is a rejection of a (form) of Jihaad that Allaah has commanded with His Saying:

‘O Prophet (Muhammad SAW)! Strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be harsh against them, their abode is Hell, - and worst indeed is that destination.’ [Tawbah: 73]

 

Also, the Prophet (Sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said in a hadeeth:

“The reverence of people should never stop any of you from speaking the truth if you hear or see it.”

(This hadeeth is) reported by Ahmed in his Musnad, 50, 53 and 84, with anauthentic chain of narration.

Success is granted by Allaah.

 

also i urge to read the following:

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=727780.html"]Allaah Grants Help and Victory to Followers of the True Deen, The State Of The Ummah And Its Return To Victory [/url]

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=727780.html&"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=727780.html&[/url]

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Salaam

 

This topic has got way too emotional and personal. Whether you agree with taliban or not will depend on what you know about them, which people will probably not agree on anyway, so why mention their name. Can't one say if someone does such and such is this Islamic. Second thing is that people have already made their views about taliban and trying to force others to believe the same is not going to work. Would it not have been better to try and enquire about views about taliban or present what you have found about taliban to the group to get their reaction. So much animosity amongst us based upon what? We probably agree on most things but it probably boils down to whether one believes in the evidence provided. Why is it that we always lose the bigger picture?

 

Are we going to be asked about did we believe taliban were muslim, or such and such was muslim?? When this is not the case why are we sinning on this forum. Will calling someone who claims to be a muslim non muslim increase your eeman, make you stronger in your faith? The point is in general we take what someone says to be true and leave the affair with Allah. If someone says he is a non muslim, i aent going to call him muslim, am I? This topic is getting very emotional and I do believe there is probably only harm in it and no good.

 

And finally just few comments in regards to the last few posts. Brother dot, lets not get carried away to the other side. We wish peace and justice in the muslim world and the non-muslim world including America. May there children live in peace and may our children live in peace.

 

Regarding brother Albani, I actually know where you are coming from, as I myself would consider my self salafi inshallah, but although what you are saying is true in terms of unity, practicality is different. What i mean is what you describe is closer to perfection and although one must strive for that individually and collectively the reality of the world we live in is very different, and we do share common goals which we can support each other on, while we also try and correct each other's aqeedah.

 

And Allah knows best.

 

Wassalam

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:sl: brother

 

There is wisdom behind the reason of prohibiting people to accuse others of disbelief or hypocrisy.

 

1) It is a grave accusation that has the power to change a person's reputation in society. Imagine that Ahmed says to a group of people, "Ali is a kaffir because he does not pray Salaat". What does such a statement do? It ruins Ali's reputation.

 

2) Disbelief and hypocrisy among Muslims are things punishable by death. If we had the freedom to accuse people of things that result in the capital punishment, then everyone would be accusing anyone they dislike or that they don't trust.

 

It's the same thing with Zina, fornication. Zina is a punishable sin. Accusations of zina cannot be made freely, they require 4 witnesses. And the one who accuses someone wrongfully gets the punishment.

 

Salam,

 

Sister, the term kafir is used in the Quran not just for people who completely reject the faith. It is used in many circumstances. Look at this verse;

 

"And WHOEVER DOES NOT JUDGE BY WHAT Allah REVEALED, those are the rejectors/kafiroon.†(5:44)

 

I am quoting Quran and not any outside interpretations. It is clear from the above verse that, even if we are believers in Allah and the prophet and pray 5 times a day, if we do not Judge what Allah has revealed, we will be Kafirs in the eye of Allah. So please do not take this term in an emotional sense and forget the main issues raised. You are worried about ruining talibans reputation. You are not paying any attention to the damage they are doing to the reputation of Islam, Allah's teachings, reputation and image of millions of women, school going girls and others. Because of their acts many muslims are confused about the actual teachings of Islam. Even an educated non muslim personally asked me if it has to do anything with the teaching of the Quran and what kind of Islam these people are promoting which prevents women getting educated. I had to try hard to convince him the real teaching of Islam. You know it is so easy to project something bad, but to convince good it requires lot of effort. The good effort of many pious muslims are spoiled by tablian like people.

 

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (d. 728H): “Whenever a person makes halal what is haram by consensus or makes haram what is halal by consensus or replaces the Sharee’ah that is agreed upon by consensus, then he is a Kaffir by the agreement of the scholars of Fiqh.†- “Al-Fataawaâ€, Vol. 3/267.

 

To declare haraam education and learning for women is a act of Kufur and it goes completely against teachings of the Quran. Quran says;

 

“And be mindful, never state any lies that comes up on your tongue unhesitatingly, that this thing is Halal and that Haraam so as to ascribe false things to Allah†- (16:116)

 

It is not a simple matter for people to declare something Haraam, it will will be equal to freezing the freedom of humankind for all times, and it is the reason why such authority is not given to anyone.

 

‘Say: who has forbidden the beautiful gifts of Allah, which he has produced for his servants and the things, clean and pure, (which he has provided) for sustenance? - (7:32)

 

Education is a beutiful gift of Allah that he has provided for his servants....even the very first verse in the Quran glorifies this gift of Allah.

 

By the way, I do not subscribe to the opinion of some of the scholars that you have quoted, who says mere disbelief and hypocrisy among Muslims are things punishable by death. It has no backing in the teachings in the Quran

 

Secondly, disobeying Allah does not make one a kaffir outright. Otherwise, we would all be disbelievers for every time we have lied, stolen, cheated, or broken any of Allah's laws. There are bad leaders who fail to enforce Allah's laws. But does that mean that they are no longer Muslim? Allah knows best. That's all I was saying. And wrongful accusations end up removing a person from Islam.

 

The verse I quoted above 5:44 is enough to answer this comment

 

As for condemning the Taliban, I have already commented on the issue. I don't know what is truth or falsehood concerning them. I hear both sides of the argument constantly enough that it's difficult to get a clear picture. Secondly, the Taliban are not on this forum. But sister Aisha Haq was. My discussion with her was more relevant than anything I might have said about the Taliban, who will never receive my words.

 

I would request you to learn more about Taliban, how they subjugate women (especially you being a lady). However, please be informed that, the points I raised, their objection to education of women, their act of harassing school going girls, and setting fire to women schools and colleges, are simply a truth

 

wassalam

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There are bad leaders who fail to enforce Allah's laws. But does that mean that they are no longer Muslim? Allah knows best.

 

salam sister again,

 

Further to my previous post, I got some more verses from Quran, which I believe thought provoking!.

 

“Indeed We Revealed the Torah wherein is Guidance and Noor (Light); with it The prophets who have become muslims judge the Jews, the rabbis, and the doctors of law; of what they have guarded of Allah's Book, and they were witnesses thereof. Therefore, desire not the people, and desire Me; and do not exchange My Ayah for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah revealed, those are the rejectors/kafiroon.†(5:44)

 

“We ordained therein for them (Jews): "Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for him. And whoever does not judge by what Allah revealed, those are the dhalimoon/oppressorsâ€. - (Ch.5: Ver.45)

 

“Let the people of the Injeel (Christians) Judge by what Allah has revealed therein therein. And And whoever does not judge by what Allah revealed, those are the fasiqoon/rebelliousâ€. - (Ch. 5: Ver.47)

 

“And thus (Muhammad) judge between them by what Allah revealed, and do not follow their vanity; and be guard of them, lest they test you from part of what Allah has Revealed to you; but if they turn back, then know that Allah desires to afflict them on account of some of their faults; and surely many humans iniquitous indeed.†- (Ch.5: Ver.49)

 

wassalam

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Forgive me for being away for a while, I have been doing some long overdue studying.

 

Now, on-topic, Taliban is no longer a body of mujahideen who are fighting communist or capitalist invaders. Once they stepped into the first firing of bullets in Pakistan, they have become by definition a rebellion.

 

Things that they have done or not done or what they are vying for all seem to be politically motivated and twisted for and against them. We have seen sufficient evidence to propaganda efforts from the west, but also enough propaganda efforts from the Pakistan Taliban themselves. That should not be of concern, actually like Kab said, we should focus on the actions and describe them as such.

 

The action Aisha mentioned has been mentioned in many news sources including non-Western ones, and as a matter of fact has been confirmed by them in one of their statements. They beat a woman because she left the house with a father-in-law. This shows great lack of knowledge on two accounts:

 

1) Father-in-law is a mahram and it is permissible for a woman to leave with him and be with him.

2) Even if it wasn't, there are no lashes in Shariah for someone who is in public with a non-mahram or for going out without a mahram.

 

This shows that Taliban in Pakistan is enforcing something other than Shariatul Islam, either by lack of knowledge or by deliberate intention. In both cases, it is wrong and impermissible.

 

Additionally, the Taliban has commited a second sin, and that is overriding the ruler. Applying punishment and Hodoud is a job for Waleyy Al-Amr, where he appoints knowledgeable representatives to do so in a respectable manner and after ensuring that all conditions are met, such as proof, witnesses, establishment of the crime, etc.. Overriding the ruler is a crime in Shariah and Haraam.

 

There are other recently reported acts, one is the blowing up of a Masjid during Friday prayer, the other is a suicide attack, and there is no proof that I heard of regarding that Taliban actually did those, so there is no need to bring them here and they are too obviously of the most horrible grave acts that I do not need to explore them.

 

They do however violate a cardinal rule, and that is the order of the prophet not to break ranks of a ruler. There are many hadiths and direct dictations regarding this, for example:

 

1 - عن ابن عباس قال‏:‏ ‏(‏قال رسول اللّه صلى اللّه عليه وآله وسلم‏:‏ من رأى من أميره شيئاً يكرهه فليصبر فإنه من فارق الجماعة شبراً فمات فميتته جاهلية‏)‏‏.‏

 

وفي لفظ‏:‏ ‏(‏من كره من أميره شيئاً فليصبر عليه فإنه ليس أحد من الناس خرج من السلطان شبراً فمات عليه إلا مات ميتة جاهلية‏)‏‏.‏

 

2- وأخرج مسلم من حديث أم سلمة مرفوعاً‏:‏ ‏(‏سيكون أمراء فتعرفون وتنكرون فمن كره برئ ومن أنكر سلم ولكن من رضي وبايع قالوا أفلا نقاتلهم قال لا ما صلوا‏)‏

 

3 - وعن عوف بن مالك الأشجعي قال‏:‏ ‏(‏سمعت رسول اللّه صلى اللّه عليه وآله وسلم يقول‏:‏ خيار أئمتكم الذين تحبونهم ويحبونكم وتصلون عليهم ويصلون عليكم وشرار أئمتكم الذين تبغضونهم ويبغضونكم وتلعنونهم ويلعنونكم قال قلنا يا رسول اللّه أفلا ننابذهم عند ذلك قال لا ما أقاموا فيكم الصلاة إلا من ولى عليه وال فرآه يأتي شيئاً من معصية اللّه فليكره ما يأتي من معصية اللّه ولا ينزعن يداً من طاعة‏)‏‏.‏

 

4 - وعن حذيفة بن اليمان‏:‏ ‏(‏أن رسول اللّه صلى اللّه عليه وآله وسلم قال‏:‏ يكون بعدي أئمة لا يهتدون بهديي ولا يستنون بسنتي وسيقوم فيكم رجال قلوبهم قلوب الشياطين في جثمان أنس قال‏:‏ قلت كيف أصنع يا رسول اللّه إن أدركت ذلك قال‏:‏ تسمع وتطيع وإن ضرب ظهرك وأخذ مالك فاسمع وأطع‏)‏‏.‏

 

5 - وعن عرفجة الأشجعي قال‏:‏ ‏(‏سمعت رسول اللّه صلى اللّه عليه وآله وسلم يقول‏:‏ من أتاكم وأمركم جميع على رجل واحد يريد أن يشق عصاكم أو يفرق جماعتكم فاقتلوه‏)‏‏.‏

 

رواهن أحمد ومسلم‏.‏

 

When they fought invading forces, they deserve all support. When there were questionable things right afterwards, it could have been argued to ask God for their guidance and still support them. But to commit what has been dictated above by the prophet -pbuh- to be an act that is amounting to treason and as per the first Hadith "Will die the death of Jahiliya", then it isn't for us to blindly support. There is consensus amongst respected scholars that their actions in Pakistan is impermissible on so many acts.

 

Some sideliners and sympathisers use the old arguments that was used by rebels and revolters across time, and that is falsely attributing it to Ibn Taymeyyah (who actually did not revolt against any muslim leader even the hugely corrupt ones), by using the verse in Quran "And whomever does not rule by what God sent, those are the non-believers." That argument has already been found to be lacking as well as requires the change of authentic interpretation. As per Ibn Kathir:

 

وقوله تعالى:

{ومن لم يحكم بما أنزل اللّه فأولئك هم الكافرون} قال البراء عازب، وابن عباس، والحسن البصري، وغيرهم: نزلت في أهل الكتاب... وقال ابن عباس قوله {ومن لم يحكم بما أنزل اللّه فأولئك هم الكافرون} قال: من جحد ما أنزل اللّه فقد كفر، ومن أقر به ولم يحكم به فهو ظالم فاسق.

 

The verse by consensus is in the Jews who falsified their book to start with and more scholars "including Ibn Abbas" saying that it sticks to them. It refers to their action in FALSIFYING what God has sent and its application. Scholars have agreed that the verse applies to them alone, and its application to Muslims is specifically in declaring rules denial and attempting to change the Quran or hadith like the jews did. Lack of Application whether out of weakness, or personal desires, or fear for consequences that they think will be worse off for the people, or due to relaxation, is not kufr as per Ibn Abbas, Al-Barraa Azeb, Hasan Al-Basary, and the majority of scholars. The number of people who say otherwise are in the undue weight of minorities and therefore it cannot apply.

 

Regarding saracen soldier and evisions posts, please note that "takfir" people is a huge matter, and I don't think you can cover all its points and repurcussions here, however you need to note the following prophet's hadith in Sahih Moslem: وعن حذيفة بن اليمان‏:‏ ‏(‏أن رسول اللّه صلى اللّه عليه وآله وسلم قال‏:‏ يكون بعدي أئمة لا يهتدون بهديي ولا يستنون بسنتي وسيقوم فيكم رجال قلوبهم قلوب الشياطين في جثمان أنس قال‏:‏ قلت كيف أصنع يا رسول اللّه إن أدركت ذلك قال‏:‏ تسمع وتطيع وإن ضرب ظهرك وأخذ مالك فاسمع وأطع‏)‏‏.

 

The hadith before you start attacking it is in Sahih Moslem, has been re-authenticated by Al-Albani, and confirmed by Ahmed Ibn Hanbal and Ibn Taymeyyah in their books.

 

The line: لا يهتدون بهديي ولا يستنون بسنتي which translates "do not guide by my guidance and do not rule by my Sunnah" specifically and explicitly describes such Imams as those who rule by other than Shariah. Therefore, the hadith is a clear indication that the Imam who does not rule by Shariah, is still to be obeyed and cannot by revolted against. The hadith as I said is authenticated, and cannot be abrogated because it specifically speaks of times to come after his passing, which means it was Wahhy (inspiration), so to deny it you are either calling the prophet uninspired or not knowledgable Astaghferollaha Al-Atheem. So with this hadith, it is a requirement to follow Waleyy Al-Amr or the Imam even if he doesn't apply Shariah as per the LETTER of the hadith. Evision, although you seem to actually be against Taliban in your post, I just wanted to clarify that your secondary interpretation of the verse has only a minority opinion for it to being total kufr, and therefore cannot be used to make a ruling. Further more, if the interpretation is considered as such, it would by necessity negate the what the prophet ordered, which is impossible. If Taliban in Pakistan can be regarded as Kuffar or Kafiroon, then it is by something else, but that is a different matter.

 

It is therefore also important that regardless of that, Taliban is trying to apply its own Shariah by their own forceful hands, not to let Shariah have its application in a civilized manner. This is not permissible and from the root is wrong. At the very least there is a problem in that they are seeking power and position for themselves, which the prophet said "لا تولوها لطالبها" translated: "do not give leadership or governance to its seeker" not to mention there isn't an Amir that the Taliban is representing so that people can choose. That is all aside from the fact as said that no new leader can be given Bayaa if there is already a current one, so the whole approach is corrupt.

 

Hence, the only decision if we wish to "support" the Taliban, is to apply the prophet's hadith: "Support your brothers whether being oppressed (transgressed upon) or oppressing (transgressing upon someone else)" and when asked how to support them when they are the ones aggressing, the prophet answered "by preventing them from their transgressions." so as to save them from the real harm, and that stacking grave sins and being condemned to punishment by God.

 

I have found this to be the personal opinions of all scholars I spoke with in Egypt Azhar, Sheikhs in Saudi, and Malaysia Islamic University. They actually helped formulate some of the details here as well as provided much more other supporting arguments. It is their opinion that Taliban fighting in Pakistan have nothing to do with the Islamic supporting base and rulings that Taliban fighting the Soviets had.

 

And May we all be guided

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one more thing

non Muslims are kafirs simple as that.

 

Salam,

 

The Arabic word kufr means ‘denial’, and the related term kafir denotes ‘one who denies’, that is ‘one who refuses to accept’. In many English translations of the Quran, the word has been translated as ‘unbelievers’, but an unbeliever is someone who does not believe, but a kafir is a person who refuses to believe despite all the proofs of God having been presented to him in an appropriate way.

 

In the early part of the Prophet’s mission, as evidenced in the initial verses of the Quran, the people prophet addressed were not referred to as kafirs, but, rather, as people. For instance, addressing the Prophet the Quran says, ‘O Messenger, deliver whatever has been sent down to you by your Lord. If you do not do so, you will not have conveyed His message. God will defend you from mankind (al-nas). For God does not guide those who deny truth.’ (Quran: 5:67). In this verse, God says that He would protect the Prophet from ‘mankind’ (al-nas), and does not use the word al-kuffar or kafirs. There are numerous such verses in the Quran that indicate the use of the general word insan (’people’) or related words to refer to all human communities [...]

 

In some Quranic verses revealed while the Prophet was in Mecca there are certain references to non-Muslims living outside Arabia. For instance, the Quran mentions the Romans, who were Christians, over whom the Persians had secured a temporary victory. But here it refers to them as Romans, not as kafirs. Likewise, the Quran refers to the non-Muslim ruler of Yemen, Abraha, but it does not label him as a kafir ruler.

 

In contrast, the Quran uses the terms kafir and kufr with regard to the Qureish of Mecca who denied the Prophet. It did not refer to all non-Muslims as kafirs. For instance, when the Prophet migrated to Medina, he did not refer to the people of Medina as kafirs, but, rather, as ‘people’. There were several non-Muslim tribes living around Medina at that time, but they, too, were not referred to as kafirs by the Prophet. Instead, he referred to them by their usual names, such as Ahl-e Saqif (’the people of Saqif’), Ahl-e Najran (’the people of Najran’), Ahl-e Bahrain (’the people of Bahrain’), and so on.

 

According to the shariah, the role of true Muslims is that of dais or those who invite others to the path of God. The status of non-Muslims, therefore, is that of madu, or those who are to be invited to God’s path. This relationship between dai and madu, between true Muslims and others, necessarily demands that true Muslims, as dais, must constantly seek to maintain good and friendly relations with people of other faiths. It is said that a shopkeeper must always be customer-friendly. Likewise, a true Muslim must always be madu-friendly.

 

A true dai must be inspired by a genuine sense of concern, love and welfare for the madu. If that is really the case, the dai would never tolerate using any term that might stir hatred in the heart of the madu. In addition, a true dai can never have hatred in his own heart for the madu.

 

Elsewhere in the Quran the words kufr and kafir have been employed in the sense of referring to certain deeds or acts that are tantamount to kufr, and the person who does this is a kafir in God’s eyes. For instance;

 

And whoever does not judge by what Allah revealed, those are the rejectors/kafiroon.†(5:44)

 

Other than with regard to the Qureish of Mecca, and that too only after the Prophet’s mission among them for thirteen long years which they rejected, there is no specific declaration in the Quran labeling any particular community as kafir. When Quran says, ‘Say, ‘You who deny the Truth [...]‘ (Quran, 109:1), using the term kafirun for this, it refers only to the Qureish of Mecca of the Prophet’s time who, despite the Prophet having provided them all proof of his divine mission, rejected and opposed him. It was then that God declared that they had become kafirs or deniers of the truth in His eyes. Nowhere else in the Quran has any other group been declared in such clear and specific terms as kafir.

 

Wassalam

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SaracenSoldier ~

 

i am really usprised to hear that from you.... and i am interested to hear that many Muslims are not against generally condemning or distancing themselves from the Taliban.

 

there are good and bad people in every group, and every group believes it is doing the right thing. but there comes a time when the overall practices of a group can be deemed so repressive, unyeilding, and even cruel that to support or defend that group in any way will come across as odd to outsiders, and even to insiders.

 

i know that Islam wants the world to see it as a peaceful, relevant, intellectual, and just religion. and there are many Muslims in the world (especially in the West) fighting hard with words and ideas to help people see Islam that way.

 

i can not think of a Muslim i know, friends, who wants non-Muslims to think of the Taliban when they think of Islam. Muslims in the West are fighting very hard to convince Americans that they are not like the Taliban, and do not want to live Islam as the Taliban defines it, or enforce it on others. in America these are stereotypes and fears a lot of Muslims have to over-come, because of, in part, the Taliban.

 

these Talibs fight a lot and are very brave and dedicated to what they think is right. but is fighting in the name of Islam and being very committed the only standard the Muslim world should look at?

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Asalaamu Alaikum,

 

This will be my last post on this topic aswell.

I'd jus like to say Brother Dot and SaracenSoldier, you have NO idea how much i respect and you for your recent posts on this topic. I seriously rate you two!

 

Wasalaam.

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