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Obama Vs 2 State Solution

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On May 14th 1948, one day before the expiry of the British Mandate of Palestine, David Ben-Gurion proclaimed the Independence of the State of israel. Already in 1947 - on November 29th - the United Nations approved the UN Partition Plan (United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181) and divided the country into two states, one Arab and one Jewish.

 

At the moment, 158 member states of the United Nations have diplomatic relations with israel, but 34 countries refuse to take that step.

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Tommy, Tommy, Tommy.... Read the Resolutions. It doesn't make a difference if the U.S. vetoed the bulk of them because they weren't 'actionable' resolutions. All they were was condemnations, not orders to do anything. It's the U.N. yelling at israel. And yes, the U.S. does veto most because that's what allies do for each other. I'll explain it to you like I did for others.... israel is our friend. The muslim nations AREN'T. IT'S THAT SIMPLE.

 

The ol' "lookin the other way while your friend massacres innocents and takes their land" deal. That's one mighty friendship to overlook genocide.

 

Salam.

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It's Time for both parties to take account of what's been going on for 60 years . For ANY agreement between ANY two parties , no matter what the issue , the concerns of BOTH must be addressed .Negotiation is a TWO WAY STREET .It all depends on what the two parties ultimately want , for That will determine what compromises must be reached.And make no mistake , for a TWO-STATE SOLUTION will require compromise .The US position going back as far as Carter , was starting as a template , -67 borders plus land swaps , Obama bwas merely repeating that premise . Intransigence on either side will accomplish nothing but the same ,as has been witnessed in the past 6 decades , for neither party will disappear .It has been said , insanity is repeating the same action over and over expecting different results . There are land and power conflicts going on all over the globe , and ALL eventually result in violence , without exception . Rhetoric abounds , and common sense abandoned .....so go figure .

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On May 14th 1948, one day before the expiry of the British Mandate of Palestine, David Ben-Gurion proclaimed the Independence of the State of israel. Already in 1947 - on November 29th - the United Nations approved the UN Partition Plan (United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181) and divided the country into two states, one Arab and one Jewish.

 

At the moment, 158 member states of the United Nations have diplomatic relations with israel, but 34 countries refuse to take that step.

 

the plan is never implemented as planned. israel backed by usa took the opportunity to 'landgrab' or steal palestinians lands resulting in palestinians left with gaza strip and west bank which is invaded by illegal jewish settlements.

 

despite the 158, israel dont feel safe. thieves will never feel safe. right? :sl:

 

Summary of UN General Assembly Resolution 181

 

November 29, 1947

 

The territory of Palestine should be divided as follows:

 

A Jewish State covering 56.47% of Mandatory Palestine (excluding Jerusalem) with a population of 498,000 Jews and 325,000 Arabs;

 

An Arab State covering 43.53% of Mandatory Palestine (excluding Jerusalem), with 807,000 Arab inhabitants and 10,000 Jewish inhabitants;

 

An international trusteeship regime in Jerusalem, where the population was 100,000 Jews and 105,000 Arabs.

Edited by tom

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It's Time for both parties to take account of what's been going on for 60 years . For ANY agreement between ANY two parties , no matter what the issue , the concerns of BOTH must be addressed .Negotiation is a TWO WAY STREET .It all depends on what the two parties ultimately want , for That will determine what compromises must be reached.And make no mistake , for a TWO-STATE SOLUTION will require compromise .The US position going back as far as Carter , was starting as a template , -67 borders plus land swaps , Obama bwas merely repeating that premise . Intransigence on either side will accomplish nothing but the same ,as has been witnessed in the past 6 decades , for neither party will disappear .It has been said , insanity is repeating the same action over and over expecting different results . There are land and power conflicts going on all over the globe , and ALL eventually result in violence , without exception . Rhetoric abounds , and common sense abandoned .....so go figure .

 

dead right. both israelis and palestinians gotta put aside their differences and start haggling who gets what etc.

 

the huge obstacle is israelis refuse to compromise. they dont wanna peace neither do they wanna palestinins have viable state of their own. they insist palestinian state remains as it is - west bank invaded by illegal jewish settlements and prisonlike gaza strip.

 

palestinians have made constructive move in that they've managed to get arab nations' support to gain un recognition of their state based on '67 borders. :sl:

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The ol' "lookin the other way while your friend massacres innocents and takes their land" deal. That's one mighty friendship to overlook genocide.

 

Salam.

 

israel has stranglehold over usa. as such it has no choice but to play blind. :sl:

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dead right. both israelis and palestinians gotta put aside their differences and start haggling who gets what etc.

 

the huge obstacle is israelis refuse to compromise. they dont wanna peace neither do they wanna palestinins have viable state of their own. they insist palestinian state remains as it is - west bank invaded by illegal jewish settlements and prisonlike gaza strip.

 

palestinians have made constructive move in that they've managed to get arab nations' support to gain un recognition of their state based on '67 borders. :sl:

 

I guess things go right over your head Tom ..the past 60 years has proven , that it matters not what the Arab States want , nor even what the US wants , peace will not be imposed on either party , nor will a palestinian state be imposed .LOL...what is the UN going to do ? Declare a state and make it so ? Until the legitimate concerns of both parties are addressed ,and satisfactorily dealt with there will be no palestinian state . You can rant until the cows come home about who's right or wrong , but the requirements for a two state solution must be met for success . Deny that if you will , but you'll be arguing the same argument 50 years from now .You ignore the fact that the israelis are not going to disappear , no more than the palestinians .You pretend that yo are unaware of these concerns , and ignore them while pointing the finger at the side you do not approve of . Yours is an endless argument and will never be resolved . Hopefully the parties involved will see more clearly than you , if not , then the situation is hopeless . There will be only more wars .

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i thought we're in the same wavelength but it seems we dont. lets see your post again.

 

I guess things go right over your head Tom ..the past 60 years has proven , that it matters not what the Arab States want , nor even what the US wants ,

 

i believe what the arab states want is a palestinian state for palestinians. and what the us wants is 2 states based on '67 border. rebutt if you disagree. it dont matter nonetheless if thats what arab states and the us want. so be it. what exactly does israel want? and does it matter?

 

peace will not be imposed on either party , nor will a palestinian state be imposed .

 

it looks like it.

 

LOL...what is the UN going to do ?

 

indeed un is impotent

 

Declare a state and make it so?

 

if thats possible.

 

Until the legitimate concerns of both parties are addressed ,and satisfactorily dealt with there will be no palestinian state.

 

what legitimate concerns is that?

 

You can rant until the cows come home about who's right or wrong , but the requirements for a two state solution must be met for success.

 

whats the requirements?

 

Deny that if you will , but you'll be arguing the same argument 50 years from now.

 

dont think i wanna deny the legitimate concerns of both parties and the requirements of 2 state solution. so whats the legitimate concerns and requirements?

 

You ignore the fact that the israelis are not going to disappear , no more than the palestinians.

 

indeed both wouldnt disappear.

 

You pretend that yo are unaware of these concerns , and ignore them while pointing the finger at the side you do not approve of .

 

dont think i wanna play blind if the concerns are valid. whats the legitimate concerns and requirements then? indeed i'm blaming israel coz its it that imposes conditions before negotiations could begin. you disagree?

 

Yours is an endless argument and will never be resolved .

 

indeed unless and until israelis and palestinians can see eye to eye their legitimate concerns and requirements.

 

Hopefully the parties involved will see more clearly than you , if not , then the situation is hopeless.

 

indeed.

 

There will be only more wars.

 

god forbids. over to you now. :sl:

 

(not allowed too many quotes.)

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The ol' "lookin the other way while your friend massacres innocents and takes their land" deal. That's one mighty friendship to overlook genocide.

 

Salam.

 

 

 

 

 

Even if the U.S. voted FOR the resolutions, it wouldn't have made a difference. READ THEM !!! They they are condemnations, censures and regrets. They are all 'after-the-fact' resolutions. Nothing there was pre-emptive. None were meant to STOP ANYTHING BEFORE IT HAPPENED. When made to choose, we chose the Jews. We couldn't possibly side with Hamas or Hezbollah. They're terrorists. Just like their 'father' Iran. :sl:

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i thought we're in the same wavelength but it seems we dont. lets see your post again.

i believe what the arab states want is a palestinian state for palestinians. and what the us wants is 2 states based on '67 border. rebutt if you disagree. it dont matter nonetheless if thats what arab states and the us want. so be it. what exactly does israel want? and does it matter?

it looks like it.

indeed un is impotent

if thats possible.

what legitimate concerns is that?

 

You dont get it , do you Tom ? Go back and "re-study " the issues , that are seperating the two parties . "67 borders are merely a framework "for a starting point , there are a myriad of issues and CONCERNS in between

The UN , and/or it's recognition of a palestinian state is IRRELEVANT , WITHOUT a negociated , agreeed upon ACCEPTABLE solution by BOTH parties .Compromise which is a key ingredient to any solution is non-existent at the moment atleast to the degree which it will satisfy BOTH parties . You conveniently leave out " Land Swaps " the other half of the statement -"67 Borders " , for the demographics of both parties has changed over the past 60 years . That is because your view is basically one sided - which you're free to hold , but offers no solution- only conflict . And YES , it DOES matter what the israelis want , just as it DOES matter what the Palestinians want , and therein is where COMPROMISE must come . If you are not aware of these, or choose to ignore them , then your argument is either flawed or biased . For you to say " '67 borders " is simplistic .

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You dont get it , do you Tom ? Go back and "re-study " the issues , that are seperating the two parties . "67 borders are merely a framework "for a starting point , there are a myriad of issues and CONCERNS in between

The UN , and/or it's recognition of a palestinian state is IRRELEVANT , WITHOUT a negociated , agreeed upon ACCEPTABLE solution by BOTH parties .Compromise which is a key ingredient to any solution is non-existent at the moment atleast to the degree which it will satisfy BOTH parties . You conveniently leave out " Land Swaps " the other half of the statement -"67 Borders " , for the demographics of both parties has changed over the past 60 years . That is because your view is basically one sided - which you're free to hold , but offers no solution- only conflict . And YES , it DOES matter what the israelis want , just as it DOES matter what the Palestinians want , and therein is where COMPROMISE must come . If you are not aware of these, or choose to ignore them , then your argument is either flawed or biased . For you to say " '67 borders " is simplistic .

 

i still cant make sense of your rambling. what is the myriad of issues and CONCERNS? why dont you spell it out? what i see is israelis are landgrabbing that part of palestine which un left to palestinians under the partition plan. you disagree? why?

 

why is un recognition of a palestinian state IRRELEVANT? how can you expect palestinians negotiate with israel when it imposes conditions? are you saying israelis conditions gonna enable both parties to reach agreed upon ACCEPTABLE solution? israel did say LOUD AND CLEAR that it wanna TALK PEACE with palestinians. BUTT on whose terms? both parties or solely israel?

 

indeed COMPROMISE is absent simply because israel insists palestinians abide by its conditions. you disagree? why?

 

i didnt LEAVE OUT LAND SWAP, i merely didnt mention it. why should i when israel is harping on terms and conditions before negotiations could begin? your blood pressure is shooting sky high man.

 

my view, everyone's view in this forum wouldnt add to the conflict much less offer solution. the key actors are palestinians and israelis. as i see it its israelis who refuse to COMPROMISE coz it didnt wanna palestinains have their state. you disagree? why?

 

WHAT DOES israel WANT? ANY IDEA? WHAT DO PALESTINIANS AND THE US WANT? what are THE LEGITIMATE CONCERNS OF BOTH israelIS AND PALESTIANS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED AND SATISFACTORILY DEALT WITH AND WHATS THE REQUIREMENTS FOR 2 STATE SOLUTION TO SUCCEED? you failed to elaborate. so shoot. i'm waiting. :sl:

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Oh ...you didn't "leave out landswap " you "merely didn't mention it ...you also didn't mention how many more palestinians and jews are in the land since the '67 borders , nor the different towns and regions they now inhabit ....naaaa...that's irrelevant , right Tom ? You also didn't mention that Hamas and Fatah must first recognize israel's right to exist which they reject publicly , privately and in their covenants ...but hey , what's a little thing like that got to do with it . Not to mention water rights , a contigious state for palestine ,the right to defensible boirders and a host of other issues . Go do your homework . Tom , you're a joker .

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Oh ...you didn't "leave out landswap " you "merely didn't mention it ...you also didn't mention how many more palestinians and jews are in the land since the '67 borders , nor the different towns and regions they now inhabit ....naaaa...that's irrelevant , right Tom ? You also didn't mention that Hamas and Fatah must first recognize israel's right to exist which they reject publicly , privately and in their covenants ...but hey , what's a little thing like that got to do with it . Not to mention water rights , a contigious state for palestine ,the right to defensible boirders and a host of other issues . Go do your homework . Tom , you're a joker .

 

your momentous response's saturated with conditions like netanyahu's much applauded speech in the us.

 

netanyahu wailed about jerusalem being israeli capital, continued israeli military presence in and along border of occupied territories, no return of palestinian refugees nothwithstanding expansion of illegal jewish settlements and israeli apartheid walls zigzag in occupied territories.

 

and you ranted about palestinians and foreign jews populations since '67, towns and regions inhabited, water rights, defensible border rights and what else? burrp.

 

last but not least hamas should recognize israel's right to exist. who's ethnic cleansing who? from about 50% palestine that remains under palestinians, it has become gaza strip and west bank which is invaded by illegal jewish settlements and israeli apartheid walls. well? :sl:

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Deny it if you will Tom , you're entitled to your opinion . The reality of the situation is , nothing will be imposed on either party by the UN or anyone else . They will both have to compromise , and address each others concerns . I dont remember "ranting " , nor did I consider my response "momentous " , and no , it wasn't based on Netanyahu's speech , for these have been the same basic concerns for the past 40 or so years . You're still a joker Tom .

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Deny it if you will Tom , you're entitled to your opinion . The reality of the situation is , nothing will be imposed on either party by the UN or anyone else . They will both have to compromise , and address each others concerns . I dont remember "ranting " , nor did I consider my response "momentous " , and no , it wasn't based on Netanyahu's speech , for these have been the same basic concerns for the past 40 or so years . You're still a joker Tom .

 

indeed israelis and palestinians have to compromise. they gotta sit down together and address each other concerns. and they need to have a basis and thats gonna be '67 border and land swap. no bagfuls of conditions prior peace talk like jerusalem must be israeli capital, continued israeli military presence in and along border of occupied territories, no return of palestinian refugees nothwithstanding expansion of illegal jewish settlements and israeli apartheid walls zigzag in occupied territories, palestinians and foreign jews populations since '67, towns and regions inhabited, water rights, defensible border rights etc.

 

if me joker you're a stooge. :sl:

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