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How Is Islam Different Than Other Religions?

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You can be a sincere truth seeker questioning the world to find the truth.

 

Where you say "sincere truth seeker", I see someone unnecessarily playing with fire. Actually, it brings a Hadith to mind.

 

"Truly, what is lawful is evident, and what is unlawful is evident, and in between the two are matters which are doubtful which many people do not know. He who guards against doubtful things keeps his religion and honour blameless, and he who indulges in doubtful things indulges in fact in unlawful things, just as a shepherd who pastures his flock round a preserve will soon pasture them in it. Beware, every king has a preserve, and the things Allah has declared unlawful are His preserves. Beware, in the body there is a flesh; if it is sound, the whole body is sound, and if it is corrupt, the whole body is corrupt, and behold, it is the heart."

 

This Hadith speaks of lawful and unlawful things, but I'm sure it applies here.

 

You can be a sincere truth seeker questioning the world to find the truth.

 

Perhaps what you should say is that a person can be a cynical questioner and that as long as they search for the truth, it might lead them back to Islam.

 

And thank you for recommending the book, as long as it is by a Muslim. Why the requirement for being Muslim? Because any old Joe can make up a bunch of theories and compose them into a book. It's what makes mankind diverse and as someone who believes nothing is true unless it can be tangibly proven, I would have found it odd if you believed the words of an atheist.

 

My initial statement when someone asked me if there was anything wrong factually with Qur'an that I could prove would you disbelieve, I said yes, what would you have said?

 

I would have asked, what do you define as factual? Interpreting verses in a certain way to claim they mean something unscientific? Arguing that a copy of the Qur'an supposedly exists in X country that differs from original? Because frankly, I've seen hundreds of "factual evidences" that claim to rebuke the Qur'an and they have all failed me.

 

What you're asking is like someone saying, what would you say if I was able to factually prove that you don't exist? Would you believe me? It is a concept that does not compute.

 

Second lastly, you said that you ran into atheists much after you first began having doubts, but from the descriptions you have given, it sounds to me like the atheists were your reason for having doubt to begin with. If human beings have had the power to affect you that much, then it seems group mentality exists beyond religion.

 

And lastly, you might have noticed that I'm not doing much to try to "revert" you back to Islam. My only goal is to show you that whatever you consider to be logical steps that lead to your doubt or disbelief aren't so logical. Logic is relative. And guidance is from Allah.

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Salamu Alaikum

 

Too many assumptions Sister. I thank you for your responses but I must take a step back and consider what you have said. I feel that answering your post will be pointless because of the fact that you have totally missed the point of most of what I said, if my clarity is questioned by others I will further clarify them, until that time I will wait and see what other have to say to my allegations. If in fact no one chooses to do so I will continue my search elsewhere. If I am too presumptuous sister ask and I will take the time to dissect your post and explain the discrepancies. My problem with forums is it is different then verbal discussion and sometimes I think the wrong word's are chosen and interpreted.

 

Salamu Alaikum

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:sl:

 

It seems as though you are not satisfied with the responses that I have given you, and you have attributed this dissatisfaction to shortcomings on my part. I haven't assumed, jumped to conclusions or been any more or less consistent than you have. Because whereas everything you have said is perfectly logical and applicable in your eyes, it is illogical and choppy in mine. And I have no doubt that the opposite is true.

 

Actually, I've said more than I intended to. From what you've said, you appear to be as firm on your position as I am, even for someone who is seeking the truth. If you want to argue, for example, the tenets of Islam and make a case against our religion based on Shari'ah, Tawhid or even the Qur'an itself, I'll enter such a discussion in the future. For now, I leave you in peace to debate with yourself and with others. May Allah clear your doubts and strengthen our iman.

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Salaam

 

Brother alim_in_training have you looked into works of Dr Zakir Naik, and if you have what do you think? He calls himself student of knowledge and has studied various scriptures and talks about similarities of religoins, including hinduism, christianity etc.

 

Wassalam

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Assalamu Alaikum, I have read the whole thread a few times and Redeem you have really gone beyond what should be expected from you, I admire your patience and I wish the readers see the concern behind hose words you posted, may Allah bless you for all your efforts.

 

I posted a link, I don't know if the brother checked it out or no, it is up to him, you and the other members tried but like I said it has to come from within him. No one can do any thing. I pray for you brother even if you don't want me too.

 

Take care, Assalamu alaikum.

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Salamu Alaikum

 

I thank you for your Dua'a and your time in trying to help me with my current problem, and I cannot lie to you and say your answers have not brought me dissatisfaction, they have, I don't feel like you are touching on my points, you have a good way of deflecting what I say to make a new point, and It always seems to be the point that I just don't want to believe, or I am lost. Again I stress Redeem, if you don't know for the life of you how someone could reject your faith than you need to open your eyes and empathize. The fact that its Islam or death for you is good, but the alternative of asking questions to you is also death is a little disconcerting. Well I guess only to me, your protective bubble of faith gives you a heightened sense of relief when you say things like I won't questions Islam. What I meant by my previous post of what would you do if someone disproved the Qur'an was to really question how open minded you were. I will not go into a battle against the tenets of Islam or the Hadiths unless you truly want me to, I know enough first hand that I will never win, because the interpretation, multitude of different rulings, etc can all be used and therefore you can always change your attitude to match my argument. I've seen it before, I can win against 10 people in a debate of Evolution v.s. the Qur'an but every time i bring it up its like pulling teeth. I seek to ask questions and get answers for my questions, if that is not possible I will not resign my faith to Islam nor accept nothingness. Morality Redeem, is the same to you as your religion, unshakable. People would be surprised of how weak a foundation morality sits on. I personally do not believe that murder is acceptable, but based on what grounds and to what punishment is a different story. Maybe here the death penalty would be ok, a death for a death, but someone burning in hell for eternity because it is as the same as he has killed all on earth is a LITTLE BIT too much for me. Empathy is key, we seem to lack it for those that do not fit our mental association.

 

Salamu Alaikum

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I have yet to look at your link, I'm sorry but like Redeem, I have grown cynical and jaded about these links and scholars like Zakir Naik. They all spin the same web, its like you have to have an access card to get in, I don't think like you guys and thus I don't see how any of this proves anything. Its all vague and open to interpretation, if I can one day choose that this verse is talking about one thing and then the other day something else, but then say oh but its the same thing. It doesn't make sense to me. I believe Redeem has gone beyond what I have said, which is my problem, how can no one target exactly what I'm saying, at the same time I do see your arguments and some of them have struck a chord with me.

 

Salamu Alaikum

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salam

 

alim-in-training:

 

Can you define me "waqood il nar"?

 

Please, no one should reply until the brother in Islam answers, because I really want this question to be answered by him.

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Salaam

 

As individuals are minds, ways of thinking vary from each other, mainly by the environment we live in, the experiences we have. There is no doubt in this. Your way of questioning is no doubt based on you individual personality, genetics and its interaction in the enviroment, and it has lead you to think in the way you are thinking, just as it has lead me to think in the way I am now. This is how I think and I am a person who does not deal with doubt very well, as I think most of us. I need to be on one side of the fence or the other. Okay in matters not relevant is different but in matter of religion, the core question of why we are created, I personally can't sit on the fence nor would I want to. Anyway before I begin, just to mention to everyone these are my views I may be wrong or write but they are mine and I realise that they come from my understanding of the religion aswell as my understanding and experience of the world.

 

To me religion is both about logic, making sense aswell as faith. To me there are two parts. First is based on logic and reasoning and that is what leads me to believe Islam is the true religion. Once I have reached this stage then faith overtakes, so if something does not make entire sense to me, I would still believe it because even if it does not make entire sense, my first part still remains and is intact. I don't expect everything to make sense as I am not wiser than Allah but I do believe that Allah has given us enough intelligence to arrive at his true religion, not that we will understand all aspects of it.

 

Now something I want to discuss about your post and that is regarding the feeling of being in doubt. From what you have stated it does not sound that you feel another religion of god is right rather you believe all the religion are the same and infact you are tending towards not believing in God. The next part is hypothetical, i firmly believe in Allah. But if I had a choice between living as a muslim and realising after death that god did not exist or living as if god does not exist and then he does exist I would alway choose the former. At the end of the day what is your goal, my goal is peace in my mind and head and I get that from being a muslim, so even if i there is no heaven or hell I will have lived what I would consider a content life. Now lets take the other option, firstly I agree that it is difficult for me to conceive the other option, but first thing i would need is certainty that god does not exist otherwise the doubts would destroy my peace, secondly even if i was sure would i take such a huge gamble just in case i was wrong? Thirdly how would i live my life, what values would i choose, how would i acheive inner peace?

 

Anyway i hope you find this useful and I pray Allah guides us all to the truth and makes us steadfast on the truth, and when we die we die upon this truth.

 

Wassalam

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Salaam

 

Just to apologise to brother Yusha, your link was not up while I was typing my post, otherwise I would have waited.

 

Wassalam

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Salamu Alaikum

 

Fuel for the Fire

 

As individuals are minds, ways of thinking vary from each other, mainly by the environment we live in, the experiences we have. There is no doubt in this. Your way of questioning is no doubt based on you individual personality, genetics and its interaction in the environment, and it has lead you to think in the way you are thinking, just as it has lead me to think in the way I am now. This is how I think and I am a person who does not deal with doubt very well, as I think most of us. I need to be on one side of the fence or the other. Okay in matters not relevant is different but in matter of religion, the core question of why we are created, I personally can't sit on the fence nor would I want to. Anyway before I begin, just to mention to everyone these are my views I may be wrong or write but they are mine and I realize that they come from my understanding of the religion as well as my understanding and experience of the world.

 

If you don't know enough, do not gamble, as long as I breathe I have the power to look and discover, there is no point resigning my faith any time soon. Why was I created? To serve and worship Allah, okay possibly, is it possible that I was just made? No way, I am a human being, we are great, we are different, we are new, therefore, the Great made us. What makes a great fire (Caveman saying this) The Fire God Inferno, now we know its not the Fire God Inferno, we can explain it. Why was I created, the Architect of the Universe made us, shaped us from clay and blew spirit into us. I think I'll wait a bit.

 

Now something I want to discuss about your post and that is regarding the feeling of being in doubt. From what you have stated it does not sound that you feel another religion of god is right rather you believe all the religion are the same and in fact you are tending towards not believing in God. The next part is hypothetical, i firmly believe in Allah. But if I had a choice between living as a Muslim and realizing after death that god did not exist or living as if god does not exist and then he does exist I would always choose the former. At the end of the day what is your goal, my goal is peace in my mind and head and I get that from being a Muslim, so even if i there is no heaven or hell I will have lived what I would consider a content life. Now lets take the other option, firstly I agree that it is difficult for me to conceive the other option, but first thing i would need is certainty that god does not exist otherwise the doubts would destroy my peace, secondly even if i was sure would i take such a huge gamble just in case i was wrong? Thirdly how would i live my life, what values would i choose, how would i achieve inner peace?

 

No, religion is one brush for me, I don't think Jehovah has my answers any more than Allah would. Now this is critical Brother, when my doubts first came I had a overwhelming feelings of confusion, discontent, a war of mind. At the end of the day my goal is to have the truth with me, wherever it may be. The doubts would mutilate your peace, they would torment you, that doesn't mean that it isn't right, sometimes brother we have to go through these things to progress and become better people. I live my life based on probably mostly Arab/Islamic morality. I have begun to develop my own sense of morality, I am ultimately responsible to myself. I can see where this is a problem, it is easier for a population of people to be accountable to something greater than just themselves. Inner peace is what you think it is, waking up everyday and thinking that I have woken up from death because Allah allowed me is fine, just make sure you are right.

 

Salamu Alaikum

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Sorry Alim,

 

I just noted your posts and frankly you are now adopting a full blown philosophy tangent and a hint of arrogant sarcasm. You are no longer presenting arguments that aim to go anywhere, you are presenting tid bits apparently selected from the philosophical garbage can, that address no purpose whatsoever in existence or whether or not Islam is really the truth. If you were the least bit sincere that wouldn't have been there at all. And therefore, allow me to apologize to you and inform you that my time is reserved for more worthy endeavours so forgive me for not caring to respond to you on any more of your arguments, from here on out. Whatever you decide is yours. However I already sensed from before that you already made up your mind, now though I can say we're certain.

 

Truth is clear, and so is what is required of us. The consequences are more than clear to someone like you "who's been there" so to speak, so if you still disbelieve despite knowing that the concept is failed and leads nowhere (as all atheist concepts), yet you defend it out of philosophical enjoyment, then you don't have any faith left and that is your choice and God's.

 

Just think about that when you become atheist and you're hypothetically right, you gain nothing while muslims lose nothing, because according to you everyone will be miraculously just dust in earth and laws of physics would have turned out to be violated at some point of age of the early universe for no reason and without a factor. But if you are wrong, you lose everything. You're not even emotional at the possibility and that seems to ascertain the situation. Why would anyone even think of that approach to life I think I will never understand! To the good words of an atheist acquaintance of mine who was saying: "I will be laying back there after we're dead asking where is this God and afterlife of yours?" to which my good learned friend answered: "WHERE will you be sitting?"

 

Enjoy your career, your sexual endeavours, and your long remaining 10 to 50 years of life, if even that. I am sure you will spend them laughing all the way to ..... where else?

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I just noted your posts and frankly you are now adopting a full blown philosophy tangent and a hint of arrogant sarcasm. You are no longer presenting arguments that aim to go anywhere, you are presenting tidbits apparently selected from the philosophical garbage can, that address no purpose whatsoever in existence or whether or not Islam is really the truth. If you were the least bit sincere that wouldn't have been there at all. And therefore, allow me to apologize to you and inform you that my time is reserved for more worthy endeavours so forgive me for not caring to respond to you on any more of your arguments, from here on out. Whatever you decide is yours. However I already sensed from before that you already made up your mind, now though I can say we're certain.

 

Truth is clear, and so is what is required of us. The consequences are more than clear to someone like you "who's been there" so to speak, so if you still disbelieve despite knowing that the concept is failed and leads nowhere (as all atheist concepts), yet you defend it out of philosophical enjoyment, then you don't have any faith left and that is your choice and God's.

 

Just think about that when you become atheist and you're hypothetically right, you gain nothing while Muslims lose nothing, because according to you everyone will be miraculously just dust in earth and laws of physics would have turned out to be violated at some point of age of the early universe for no reason and without a factor. But if you are wrong, you lose everything. You're not even emotional at the possibility and that seems to ascertain the situation. Why would anyone even think of that approach to life I think I will never understand! To the good words of an atheist acquaintance of mine who was saying: "I will be laying back there after we're dead asking where is this God and afterlife of yours?" to which my good learned friend answered: "WHERE will you be sitting?"

 

Enjoy your career, your sexual endeavors, and your long remaining 10 to 50 years of life, if even that. I am sure you will spend them laughing all the way to ..... where else?

 

I am glad you got that off your chest. You may have had enough. I'm just getting started, and I'll wear out everyone on this forum until I can get an answer. I am asking questions, no one is required to answer them. If you don't want to waste your time that is your decision. I always end up looking like the bad guy because I poke the fire, and frankly I don't care anymore. I think I could show a little more respect, my sarcasm is meant to make you think. If it seems belittling to you I will tone it down. If I made a decision I would not be on an Islamic forum talking to people who I thought are wasting my time. There is obviously a reason why Islam is growing more than any other religion and why the followers are so close to it. AGAIN----->

 

I will play devil's advocate for both Atheists supporting my claims and Muslims trying to "revert" me to the best of my ability, or if I find a point powerful, will continue along that track of thought for others to refute. If someone finds that this topic should be in another section let me know, I have forgotten the dynamics of this site. I am hoping I will get a lot of responses because I want all those who have doubt to find the truth, wherever it may be.

 

No atheists have said anything, the one who did didn't bring anything to the table for me really. It made sense and I am perhaps arguing the same point but it didn't make a development. You know come to think of it, I'm probably trying to put down all of your ideas to make mine sound better, I am only here to make you guys sound dumb so that I sound right? I am here to cause controversy, someone who is lost in life seeking enjoyment in arguing with people about their faiths.

 

Once all of you can get past that we can continue with the thread topic. How Is Islam Different Than Other Religions. What makes Islam so much more appealing. How can one return to Islam when they feel logic is pushing against it. I want to be someone who is free thinking, without restrictions, why is it that submitting to Allah makes me a better person. Do people without religion have no ethics? Is Islam just another piece of the human puzzle, another step in our psyche, making up these things as we go, a contemporary mythology for us to use to get past things, or has religion in fact reached its peak, its final truth and religion is real. Can we be realistic about religion. Do we really believe that someone made up the universe by saying be and created human beings from dust and had two people mate x many years ago. Are there really such things as angels and Jinns, Prophets who had ants talk to them, half man half creatures which the Prophet (PBUH) rode on in a single night to travel to the hell and heaven to see men being tormented and other Prophets, rivers flowing. Doesn't this sound like a fairy tale, would I believe this story if someone else told me? Because it is written in a book that claims divinity, the book has never been contested? What about evolution? Does it fit in this picture of the one God? Its possible there is a God without Islam? Where does morality come from, is Islamic morality correct. Is it truly fair for both sexes? Do I have western mentality or Muslim mentality, or neither, or both. Is my life dictated by what I have done in my life or is there a way through it, can I be a better person by being more open minded, or must I have a restricted mentality. Why am I here, is there a reason, do I need a reason? Will Islam provide me with the right reason. Real questions Brothers and sisters. Real genuine confusion. I ask because I need to know, I have to decide where I will spend my life believing and dedicating my life to Allah, or be a free thinking person who will dedicate his life to being the most effective I can be. If religion is false can I let people live in this facade? Same way if I was Muslim would I let people die in Kufr? I am split and am sincerely seeking answers, each side of my mind I will release when asked a certain question. A Muslim talks to me oriented Islamically, what is the point like acting like a sincere believer if I am asking in the first place.

People get agitated when you ask about their faith. No one need answer me, I am asking, there is no compulsion. Allah has obviously not retained my peace of heart not given me my faith back and I'm looking in every way possible.

 

Salamu Alaikum

 

P.S. Not exclusively are you Holy Brother Sampharo and the Muslims the only people of good morality. You will work for the next 10-50 years of your life the same way, plus you will pray and then hope that Allah is merciful enough to let you in. I only hope your attitude gets you in first and foremost defender of the Righteous.

Edited by alim_in_training

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Salaam

 

I am questioning your methodology. You can't be head and tails whenever you want to be. Lot of what you say is wish washy, not concrete. I would suggest that you be open and make a list of things that you have objection about regarding islaam so that brothers and sisters can try and address them if possible. You are mentioning lots of stuff without much substance. Or if you really are torn between the two, then put points which you feel are for islaam and those against islaam and see if anyone can shed light into it. Otherwise it feels so abstract, and so disjointed in that there is a lot of things going on in your head. If you agree to do this I think it would be helpful but then you would need to restrict it. Also you need to think about whether getting good answers to these questions will really make a difference.

 

And Allah knows best

 

Wassalam

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salam

 

Can you define me "waqood il nar"?

 

Fuel for the Fire

 

 

This knowledge makes us different from other religions and inside yourself you believe in it, because why would you say this.

 

Show me if Atheists are more righteous than Theists? Can they escape death?

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Salaams peeps,

 

Once all of you can get past that we can continue with the thread topic. How Is Islam Different Than Other Religions. What makes Islam so much more appealing. How can one return to Islam when they feel logic is pushing against it. I want to be someone who is free thinking, without restrictions, why is it that submitting to Allah makes me a better person.

 

Well do you believe in Allah? If you do, the next question you must ask yourself is what should the relationship between you and Allah swt be? Islam teaches you that this life is very short, and you are required to submit yourself to Allah for this short time for your own benefit. Allah swt doesn’t need your submission, supplications or good deeds, but demands you earn your rewards accordingly.

 

Do people without religion have no ethics? Is Islam just another piece of the human puzzle, another step in our psyche, making up these things as we go, a contemporary mythology for us to use to get past things, or has religion in fact reached its peak, its final truth and religion is real.

 

Ethics are a part of fitrah, which I mentioned in my first post. So yes, people without religion also have ethics. Whether Islam is simply another product of the human psyche is really dependent on how you wish to look at it. There is no proof that Islam is the true path, and so if you want to view it as no more than an invention of weak human discourse then I’m sure you can. But of course logic and reason should not abandon you when looking at history and the context of religions. How do you wish to interpret the event of Islam? It is a choice for you whether you wish to look at the Arabs uniting and finishing off two super powers of the time as just another example of military prowess or, you could reflect on it as something truly remarkable. You could view the Qur’an as a literary piece by a man who lived in a rich culture of poetry, or you could see it as a living miracle.

 

Can we be realistic about religion. Do we really believe that someone made up the universe by saying be and created human beings from dust and had two people mate x many years ago. Are there really such things as angels and Jinns, Prophets who had ants talk to them, half man half creatures which the Prophet (PBUH) rode on in a single night to travel to the hell and heaven to see men being tormented and other Prophets, rivers flowing. Doesn't this sound like a fairy tale, would I believe this story if someone else told me? Because it is written in a book that claims divinity, the book has never been contested?

 

You can be realistic about religion if you choose to supplement it with logic and reflection. There must be some level of coherence to any philosophy, and religion should be no different. There is nothing incoherent about an almighty being outside the dimensions of this universe creating all you see. Philosophers and founders of Western logic found no conflict in believing in a divine being with logic. The problem is, of course, there is no empirical evidence to show this. But there are facts and realities which require some sort of theory to explain. Existence itself can either be explained via a random by-chance big bang followed by natural selection, or can be explained by a Divine Being guiding and designing it. The latter sounds more logical to me. How about you?

 

What about evolution? Does it fit in this picture of the one God?

 

Evolution describes changes that can be observed, and sometimes makes assumptions about changes that can no longer be seen within species and populations. Perhaps what it is describing is simply the changes Allah swt has dictated for His creation. What you consider random mutations may not be random at all. Either way, neither view can be proven. Those who see nothing other than evolution or Darwinism are also men of faith, for they believe in a process they cannot prove. But live under a guise of having lots of evidence to support their position. If you choose to reflect, you will se it is their religion.

 

Its possible there is a God without Islam? Where does morality come from, is Islamic morality correct. Is it truly fair for both sexes? Do I have western mentality or Muslim mentality, or neither, or both. Is my life dictated by what I have done in my life or is there a way through it, can I be a better person by being more open minded, or must I have a restricted mentality. Why am I here, is there a reason, do I need a reason? Will Islam provide me with the right reason.

 

God exists even if Islam disappears off the face of this earth. He is eternal. Morality comes from the fitrah and refined by the philosophy of the people. If you are looking for the correct standard for morality, you must look for the source which comes from the one that created the fitrah. That’s if you believe in the concept of fitrah.

 

Real questions Brothers and sisters. Real genuine confusion. I ask because I need to know, I have to decide where I will spend my life believing and dedicating my life to Allah, or be a free thinking person who will dedicate his life to being the most effective I can be. If religion is false can I let people live in this facade? Same way if I was Muslim would I let people die in Kufr? I am split and am sincerely seeking answers, each side of my mind I will release when asked a certain question. A Muslim talks to me oriented Islamically, what is the point like acting like a sincere believer if I am asking in the first place.

 

I feel sad that you are facing this crisis. I’m curious as to what your views are at the moment. You’ve asked many questions but it’s difficult to see what you believe right now from your posts. I asked about the Qur’an earlier, which you haven’t responded to. What is your view on the Qur’an? The reason I’m asking is this: if you believe the Qur’an is a Divine text, unchanged, all the questions you have asked are answered within this book. If however, you having been a Muslim all your life, you have now decided this book is not from Allah, then I’m afraid I can’t see how you will return to Islam. Even if your questions are answered in a way to trigger something in your mind, how will you go back to believing that this book is flawless and a miracle if you’ve now understood it as not?

 

Islam is not that different from many other religions. What makes it unique is its coherance, the strength of its sources, and the Qur'an.

 

Peace

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Salamu Alaikum

 

Ultimately Brothers and Sisters you are telling me it is just my decision to believe or not? No way of telling either way, its just a choice, personal choice, based on what you think is right? I think there is no point for a theological discussion. You can either amalgamate everything you know under the banner that you are a believer and attribute everything to that or not? You will only see the truth if your eyes have been opened, its just a faith thing, you have to know that you are right? Does that ultimately mean my eyes are closed?

 

Peace

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Salaams peeps,

 

I asked about the Qur’an earlier, which you haven’t responded to. What is your view on the Qur’an? The reason I’m asking is this: if you believe the Qur’an is a Divine text, unchanged, all the questions you have asked are answered within this book. If however, you having been a Muslim all your life, you have now decided this book is not from Allah, then I’m afraid I can’t see how you will return to Islam. Even if your questions are answered in a way to trigger something in your mind, how will you go back to believing that this book is flawless and a miracle if you’ve now understood it as not?

 

Could you respond to this?

 

Peace

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Salamu Alaikum

 

I asked about the Qur’an earlier, which you haven’t responded to. What is your view on the Qur’an? The reason I’m asking is this: if you believe the Qur’an is a Divine text, unchanged, all the questions you have asked are answered within this book. If however, you having been a Muslim all your life, you have now decided this book is not from Allah, then I’m afraid I can’t see how you will return to Islam. Even if your questions are answered in a way to trigger something in your mind, how will you go back to believing that this book is flawless and a miracle if you’ve now understood it as not?

 

Good point. I feel the Qur'an is too vague, it doesn't really say anything to be like contested. Not totally vague in the sense that everything in it is just words, but things relating to science, historical context, Allah says there is no need for details which satisfied me before, but now I see the lack of substantial evidences the flaw. Also when it comes to evolution, I wonder how can it be a plausible theory and the Qur'an states Adam and Eve were created. In the end its like the Qur'an isn't really stating anything to be contested in the first place, do you see what I am getting at. I see it as a glorious text, perhaps unchanged, I mean realistically how many texts do change after they are made, it makes sense for the Bible to have been changed, because they are eye witness account, and the whole apocrypha thing, but I won't get into that. The Abrahamic religions are just the most influential, they have the greatest following, I don't see how that would make them right. I mean what's really miraculous about the Qur'an? Its just perspective

 

Salamu Alaikum

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Assalamu Alaikum,

 

Mashallah the brothers and sisters in this forum have answered all of your questions and devils advocate type of arguing and yet you still are not convinced. I do not know what evidence you are looking for to be convinced Islam is the religion of Allah (SWT). It sounds like you are more convinced by the yahudi Darwin about evolution than you are the Quran. I don't get it my friend. May Allah guide us all on the right path. These brothers and sisters have taken time to answer your questions and you keep going in circles. You might as well ask to see God manifest on earth just like the Jews asked Moses to see God manifest on earth. That is the only thing left for you to say. Read Surah Al Baqarah and you fit the description of the people of Moses (PBUH).

 

Salam

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Wa Alaikum Issalam Brother,

 

 

 

 

 

What I liked about your post is that you did identify that all other religions are very similar to Islam, but they all have different opinions of who the Godhead is, and the count of gods. All religions have stated that they are the truth and that disbelief comes from doubt. All describe punishment to those who reject the faith, claim that the source of all Evil is usually the devil, and listening to him will cause your own damnation.

 

All religions that you have mentioned rely on people having faith in them for them to operate. All religions have come to people at a time of weakness where they needed guidance, and given them something to believe in. Islam to the arabs of the Meccan desert and eventually half the world, Christianity to the Jews under roman persecution, Moses to the Jews under Egyptian persecution, the Rastas under persecution, the Lutheran under persecution, the Zoroastrians, etc.

 

Everyone chooses their own chosen people, in Islam it says its open to anyone who will believe, but yet Allah has predetermined everyone's destiny and chosen those who will have faith, but we will live our lives so that were given the choice to make our own mistakes and see why we will rot in oblivion/Hell/Hades etc for eternity.

 

What do you think?

 

Salamu Alaikum

 

Well, Thats not true of Buddhism. The Buddha encouraged us to challenge his teachings, even to attempt to falsify them, to a point that could almost be called scientific. This exact same discussion we are having was in fact engaged in by the Buddha himself with the people of the village of the Kalamas:

 

"As they sat there, the Kalamas of Kesaputta said to the Blessed One, "Lord, there are some priests & contemplatives who come to Kesaputta. They expound & glorify their own doctrines, but as for the doctrines of others, they deprecate them, revile them, show contempt for them, & disparage them. And then other priests & contemplatives come to Kesaputta. They expound & glorify their own doctrines, but as for the doctrines of others, they deprecate them, revile them, show contempt for them, & disparage them. They leave us absolutely uncertain & in doubt: Which of these venerable priests & contemplatives are speaking the truth, and which ones are lying?"

 

"Of course you are uncertain, Kalamas. Of course you are in doubt. When there are reasons for doubt, uncertainty is born. So in this case, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering' — then you should abandon them.

 

"What do you think, Kalamas? When greed arises in a person, does it arise for welfare or for harm?"

 

"For harm, lord."

 

"And this greedy person, overcome by greed, his mind possessed by greed, kills living beings, takes what is not given, goes after another person's wife, tells lies, and induces others to do likewise, all of which is for long-term harm & suffering."

 

"Yes, lord."

 

"Now, what do you think, Kalamas? When aversion arises in a person, does it arise for welfare or for harm?"

 

"For harm, lord."

 

"And this aversive person, overcome by aversion, his mind possessed by aversion, kills living beings, takes what is not given, goes after another person's wife, tells lies, and induces others to do likewise, all of which is for long-term harm & suffering."

 

"Yes, lord."

 

"Now, what do you think, Kalamas? When delusion arises in a person, does it arise for welfare or for harm?"

 

"For harm, lord."

 

"And this deluded person, overcome by delusion, his mind possessed by delusion, kills living beings, takes what is not given, goes after another person's wife, tells lies, and induces others to do likewise, all of which is for long-term harm & suffering."

 

"Yes, lord."

 

"So what do you think, Kalamas: Are these qualities skillful or unskillful?"

 

"Unskillful, lord."

 

"Blameworthy or blameless?"

 

"Blameworthy, lord."

 

"Criticized by the wise or praised by the wise?"

 

"Criticized by the wise, lord."

 

"When adopted & carried out, do they lead to harm & to suffering, or not?"

 

"When adopted & carried out, they lead to harm & to suffering. That is how it appears to us."

 

"So, as I said, Kalamas: 'Don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, "This contemplative is our teacher." When you know for yourselves that, "These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering" — then you should abandon them.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.

 

"Now, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness' — then you should enter & remain in them.

 

"What do you think, Kalamas? When lack of greed arises in a person, does it arise for welfare or for harm?"

 

"For welfare, lord."

 

"And this ungreedy person, not overcome by greed, his mind not possessed by greed, doesn't kill living beings, take what is not given, go after another person's wife, tell lies, or induce others to do likewise, all of which is for long-term welfare & happiness."

 

"Yes, lord."

 

"What do you think, Kalamas? When lack of aversion arises in a person, does it arise for welfare or for harm?"

 

"For welfare, lord."

 

"And this unaversive person, not overcome by aversion, his mind not possessed by aversion, doesn't kill living beings, take what is not given, go after another person's wife, tell lies, or induce others to do likewise, all of which is for long-term welfare & happiness."

 

"Yes, lord."

 

"What do you think, Kalamas? When lack of delusion arises in a person, does it arise for welfare or for harm?"

 

"For welfare, lord."

 

"And this undeluded person, not overcome by delusion, his mind not possessed by delusion, doesn't kill living beings, take what is not given, go after another person's wife, tell lies, or induce others to do likewise, all of which is for long-term welfare & happiness."

 

"Yes, lord."

 

"So what do you think, Kalamas: Are these qualities skillful or unskillful?"

 

"Skillful, lord."

 

"Blameworthy or blameless?"

 

"Blameless, lord."

 

"Criticized by the wise or praised by the wise?"

 

"Praised by the wise, lord."

 

"When adopted & carried out, do they lead to welfare & to happiness, or not?"

 

"When adopted & carried out, they lead to welfare & to happiness. That is how it appears to us."

 

"So, as I said, Kalamas: 'Don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, "This contemplative is our teacher." When you know for yourselves that, "These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness" — then you should enter & remain in them.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.

 

"Now, Kalamas, one who is a disciple of the noble ones — thus devoid of greed, devoid of ill will, undeluded, alert, & resolute — keeps pervading the first direction [the east] — as well as the second direction, the third, & the fourth — with an awareness imbued with good will. Thus he keeps pervading above, below, & all around, everywhere & in every respect the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with good will: abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will.

 

"He keeps pervading the first direction — as well as the second direction, the third, & the fourth — with an awareness imbued with compassion. Thus he keeps pervading above, below, & all around, everywhere & in every respect the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with compassion: abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will.

 

"He keeps pervading the first direction — as well as the second direction, the third, & the fourth — with an awareness imbued with appreciation. Thus he keeps pervading above, below, & all around, everywhere & in every respect the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with appreciation: abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will.

 

"He keeps pervading the first direction — as well as the second direction, the third, & the fourth — with an awareness imbued with equanimity. Thus he keeps pervading above, below, & all around, everywhere & in every respect the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with equanimity: abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will.

 

"Now, Kalamas, one who is a disciple of the noble ones — his mind thus free from hostility, free from ill will, undefiled, & pure — acquires four assurances in the here-&-now:

 

"'If there is a world after death, if there is the fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then this is the basis by which, with the break-up of the body, after death, I will reappear in a good destination, the heavenly world.' This is the first assurance he acquires.

 

"'But if there is no world after death, if there is no fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then here in the present life I look after myself with ease — free from hostility, free from ill will, free from trouble.' This is the second assurance he acquires.

 

"'If evil is done through acting, still I have willed no evil for anyone. Having done no evil action, from where will suffering touch me?' This is the third assurance he acquires.

 

"'But if no evil is done through acting, then I can assume myself pure in both respects.' This is the fourth assurance he acquires.

 

"One who is a disciple of the noble ones — his mind thus free from hostility, free from ill will, undefiled, & pure — acquires these four assurances in the here-&-now."

 

"So it is, Blessed One. So it is, O One Well-gone. One who is a disciple of the noble ones — his mind thus free from hostility, free from ill will, undefiled, & pure —

 

 

And Buddhists dont consider themselves "Chosen" either. A Muslim, Christian or Jew who conducts himself well, and is kind and generous and not immoderate in sense pleasure is superior to a undisciplined un-skilled Buddhist.

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Salamu Alaikum

 

Answering a question doesn't necessarily give you the right answer, they have not said anything I haven't already considered. Their answers are of the nature that you have to believe to understand. They say that I cannot use logic or reasoning to attain faith. Their answers come from the Qur'an this hadith tells us why you are wrong. They have not shown me any reason to return to my faith and I will not continue to battle this feeling of annoyance all the Muslims on this forum have developed. Your answers are not satisfactory in the least way, you have diverted my questions and deflected them in any way.

 

How can I prove Islam is the right religion by saying that it says its the right religion?

 

 

You cannot ‘prove’ Islam is the right religion. If there was such a proof, it would render faith as redundant

 

Deflected, Islam states that it is the correct religion. Ina Deen Anda Lahee Il Islam. The correct Religion is Allah's eyes is Islam. All other religions are in hell-fire. You know Islam is correct because Allah says so, not much proof in my eyes for someone who doesn't believe Allah wrote this. Faith is redundant, believing in the unseen, yet I'm supposed to have it for no other apparent reason except that I believe, brilliant.

 

All religions have stated that they are the truth and that disbelief comes from doubt. All describe punishment to those who reject the faith, claim that the source of all Evil is usually the devil, and listening to him will cause your own damnation.

 

Do you remember the concept of fitrah in Islam? This innate nature of humans manifests itself by trying to worship Allah swt. This is why, despite the vastly different cultures people have in different parts of the world, all have a concept of a divine being and a religion. This is the fitrah trying to express itself. This is no coincidence that Islam teaches us the reality of fitrah over 1400 years ago, and for this to be manifest in human behaviour all over the world to this day. Religion and searching for Allah swt is a necessary phenomenon for humans. You must have heard the argument by atheists that the reason people create religions, is to answer the questions they cannot answer themselves. They have observed that humans follow religions without any empirical evidence, and so have theorised a psychological tendency in humans which makes them concoct divinity to explain things which cannot be explained. But there is no such proof or evidence for this. Atheists have simply charged humans with this without a second thought. But the fitrah explains this phenomena clearly. And this has been taught by Islam. The reason I mention this is that Islam, above other religions, has coherence that many other religions and philosophies lack. Do not be put off by the presence of other religions, this is natural.

 

Fitrah the natural state of which everyone is created, the natural order of things. The argument that all other religions follow a similar pattern because that is the way humans think, or the way Allah has made things. Again the book Caveman Logic, empirical evidence of people believing things that are not true for making up answers. Fitrah explains that this is existent, not why it happens. Allah says there is a Fitrah so there is, good one. It is natural to have all religions, this is the way of humanity.

 

Yet all these religions have human institutions to govern their followers! Allah has given us the laws, Divine Laws. which mean that they must work?

 

 

So? Would you hope for a congregation of Angels to govern the true believers? The laws of Islam do work. But it’s not just about whether they work, it’s about whether this is what Allah swt wants. You may well govern a country well with Hindu laws, but is that what the Lord of the Worlds wants? The argument should not be, ‘If Islam is the one true religion then every other system should by definition fail.’ Success and failure is in the hands of Allah, your obligation is to try and find what He wants from you.

 

Of course not, I don't believe in Angels as much as believe in Aliens or ghosts or the Easter bunny. Whether Allah wants them to work, good one, now tell me how do laws work? If people follow them or not? So Allah is purposely making people not follow the laws? Allah la ugharee Gowmeen il man ugharee man fee anfooseehoom. Allah will not change a people until they change themselves. How are we supposed to do this if Allah controls all, a circle of entanglement that gives some people relief and me doubt. Allah knows all that will happen, controls destiny, people have choices, they make their choices and there are laws to restrict their choices. They can choose to follow the laws, but Allah chooses if the laws will work. What is this a game?

 

Using this, we can logically deduce who is going to heaven or not, but then again Islam says that only Allah chooses who goes! Like every other religion people must live in paranoia, in fear of retribution and thus must submit themselves to religion, but religion is manifest in the institution, Allah will not come and strike me if I don't pray, that only happened back in the Prophet's days and before, weird eh?

 

 

You can perhaps logically deduce who may or may not go to heaven but then why is this your business? What does it matter to you, and why has this affected your views on religion, that only Allah swt decides who gets His bounty? A Muslim does not live in paranoia. Those who care what Allah swt think are hopeful for His forgiveness and so do not let their sins crush their souls. Those who do not care what Allah swt thinks also do not live in paranoia, because they don’t care. Allah swt may strike you if you don’t pray.

 

Its my business because it is all our business. We learn through example right? That is why we have a Prophet (PBUH) and if I can follow these guidelines and these people I can go to heaven. Yet Allah states that these people have no assurance, you will get into heaven by Allah's good graces. A Muslim lives in paranoia. I'm sorry I can't find the hadith now, when a man asks the Prophet (PBUH) why do you do such and such if you know you are guaranteed Heaven, he says I am but a servant of Allah, who knows what will happen to me. When's the last time you have seen a miracle huh? When's the last time Allah struck someone for not praying? When Allah says he will not intervene with matters of the Earth, yet he makes exceptions? A man didn't pray two weeks later he falls of a cliff, see that is Allah's punishment.

 

Your basic premise seems to be that all religions and ways of life can be interpreted as correct and therefore there is nothing special about Islam. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. What makes Islam special, is what you see when you choose to reflect.

 

Amen, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, I don't see what you see when I reflect, and thus I am misguided? What else must a man do to seek atonement, force himself to believe something so that he can have peace of mind? Open my eyes to see what you see? The only way I can see is through your binoculars, I think they are faulty, what do I do, see if I can see the same thing through different ones. If only believing in this whole story allows you to believe in this world how can you believe. I do not need to see Allah, I need to see proof of Allah, I need to see something that tells me that Allah exists beyond a doubt. I can't just fill in the blanks.

 

Ultimately, again I will say this, You have to believe to believe, there is nothing to pull you beside actually believing. You have to feel, you have to be overcome by the oneness of God. How can any of you say that you've chosen the right path if you do not know what the wrong path is? I do not mean a life debauchery, but life is simpler than being holy or rotting in hell. Do you know what its like to be a man living in a war torn country seeing people ripped to bits and people blowing each other up and then when they are raised they turn to alcohol and violence so you automatically say they are disbelievers and will rot in hell. These people never had a choice, we are dictated by the way we are raised, our external influences. I am making a big sacrifice by questioning our current day establishment, the Prophet (PBUH) did the same, and only now would we say that he is right, because now we "know" he's right. You are on the same playing field as every other ideological confrontation throughout history and like most of the sheep you resign yourselves to a simple faith, I know this because this what I have been taught. I mean no disrespect, most of you are more learned than the average Muslim, but still provide no answers.

 

On the other hand, I see that Islam is correct, these ideas are flawed, western from the Shaydaan. Doubts caused to mislead you, people think they are right and thus they make incorrect decision, they do not know everything. The biggest reason I stick to Islam is because of the story of Shaydaan. The entire Islamic philosophy is summed up in his story with Adam. Should I bow down to something that is made up of clay when I am fire? His free will led him to his doubts and his ultimate fall from grace. His falsified logic, being such a simplistic being compared to the almighty.

 

Maybe Allah has a plan, maybe Allah challenges us, I am looking at both these ideas. I am looking for which of these two makes the most sense before I sign off my free will and submit. So far, blind faith is losing and logic is winning, and those that are sick of this debate can leave and STOP reading my posts. If I cared about whining people that don't like me stirring a storm I would have never questioned anything in my life.

 

Salamu Alaikum Brothers and Sister, May Allah guide us all to the righteous path.

Edited by alim_in_training

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Peace Lars,

 

Thank you for trying to show me a different perspective, Buddhism, but like Redeem said, its either Islam or nothing. I have already considered other religions and read about them. Siddhartha doesn't hold any answers for me.

 

Peace

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Peace Lars,

 

Thank you for trying to show me a different perspective, Buddhism, but like Redeem said, its either Islam or nothing. I have already considered other religions and read about them. Siddhartha doesn't hold any answers for me.

 

Peace

 

 

Your welcome, but there is no such thing as "nothing". You are still going to have an ethical system that you live your life by whether you are Muslim or not. For most of my life I had no religion what so ever, and yet the way Ive lived my life is in many regards very similar to a Muslim. I dont have sex until marriage, not because I believe in a heavenly reward or because I fear hell, but because I am aware of the process of causation and the immense suffering unwise sexual contact can have. Realizing that I could put a girl in a position where she would be faced with the option of cutting my unborn child out of her is unthinkable to me. And recently (3 years ago) I gave up alcohol and pot too simply in the interest of focusing all of my mental energy on things that benefit me.

 

I dont see why you need to subscribe to any religion/ philosophy, including atheism. In calling ourselves Muslims or buddhists, or atheists (Im trapped doing this because of the convention of language) we are implicitly stating that we are cutting ourselves off from the rest of humanity who is not part of that group, along with the wisdom that group holds.

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