Jump to content
Islamic Forum
Anon1

Why Islam, Im Not Sure What I Want....

Recommended Posts

Oops double post!

 

That is such a silly question.....

how can you prove that which does not exist? Apparently, God is a supernatural force... its like me telling you to show me scientific evidence prove the existance of ghosts...

 

You claiming there is a God is like me claiming that tooth fairies exist.

 

I Believe god exists in the sense that he is real for those who believe in him, likewise, if i believed in tooth fairies they would be real to me, but not to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PropellerAds
Ok...

 

I believe in evolution because there is Evidence for it, it is Scientific Theory.

 

I disagree with you on evolution and I would say there is evidence against it

I am not here to argue with you on evolution though you can check out this topic for proof against evolution:

you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic...p;#entry1210421

 

Scientific theory cannot be a scientific theory if it has any contradictions, I believe the universe started because their is evidence to say that the universe it constantly expanding, therefore it must have a start.... What if there wasnt a start? I can accept that as a possibility... what if the universe has been here for an eternity? You say God has but why can you apply that arguement to the universe?

Do not assume that all Atheists believe the same thing, Atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of deities, that is all we have in common.

 

It is scientific theory that everything must have a start, there is no contradicting evidence, therefore i believe that the universe must have a started as somepoint in history.I do not claim to 'know' that this is the truth, evidence is in its favour so i think it is the most justifiable answer.

I was not assuming you all believe the same thing, I was saying you believe the universe to have a start, and however you think the universe started requires faith because you were not around and do not have substantial proof to base it on. The reason it couldn't have been here for an eternity is because life is still going on, and chemical and physical processes are still in progress, so our universe could not have existed for eternity, else it would have long since run out of useful energy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sorry for double posting but i cannot post links so check out the stickied thread posted by Dot for proof against evolution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For evolutionist like you........... Please check the following website and decide for youself...

 

 

 

[iframe]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetharunyahya(contact admin if its a beneficial link)[i'm not allowed to use this tag yet]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oops double post!

 

That is such a silly question.....

how can you prove that which does not exist? Apparently, God is a supernatural force... its like me telling you to show me scientific evidence prove the existance of ghosts...

 

You claiming there is a God is like me claiming that tooth fairies exist.

 

I Believe god exists in the sense that he is real for those who believe in him, likewise, if i believed in tooth fairies they would be real to me, but not to you.

 

 

I would rather argue and say it is a very wise question. If you have a fact, then you can prove it using facts. We do have scientific facts to prove the existence of God and that is through his signs. What sign or evidence can you produce to prove that there is no God

 

how can you prove that which does not exist?

It isnt something that cannot be done. IF it is, how are the doctors proving the existence or the nonexistence of certain bacterial diseases in our body?

 

The way we can prove existence, we can prove nonexistence too

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, this is something that you don't understand.

 

I do not believe that there isn't a god, there is not enough evidence for me to believe in a god.

 

How many people in history have believed in their different gods with exactly the same attitude as you.

 

Can you disprove Ra, Hades, Helios or Zeus? the list is endless of previous gods, who are you to say your god exists and these other ones do not? Google Flying Spaghetti Monster and DISPROVE it.

 

It is not for me to disprove something you claim exists, if i were to tell you there is a Tea Pot orbiting around mars it would be my job to prove it to you, Oh also, this Tea Pot is invisible.

But it definitely is there...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can you disprove Ra, Hades, Helios or Zeus? the list is endless of previous gods, who are you to say your god exists and these other ones do not? Google Flying Spaghetti Monster and DISPROVE it.

 

There are certan qualities of a God.

 

1- He should be 1 and unique...

 

If there are are many Gods, then it would create so many problems. For example, one may want to rain, other may want to make it winter.... or One may wish to introduce something new, while the other may wish something else... All these would create conflicts of there were many Gods.

 

2- He should be self sufficient.

 

A God should be self sufficient, and should not require anything from us.

 

 

3- He should not beget, nor he should be beggotton

If HE is begetting and having children, then there is no difference between him and animals.. begetting is an animal act, and it doesnt suit to attributes of God.

Similarly, he should not be begotton, because, if he is begotton, then His father would be much powerful and much supreme, also then He would be having a begining. It does not suit for him to have a begining or an end.

 

4-There should be nothing like Him

 

The movment anything can be compared to God, then He is not God. Hence He would be far supreme than all of his creation and nothing should, even by little chance should come even closer to be compared to the status of God.

 

 

Therefore, if you meet anyone who claims to be God, put him to this test, and verify. If He passes this test, we muslim dont have any objection to believe that He is GOD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No, this is something that you don't understand.

 

 

To be very honest with you, I dont think you understand the Islamic point of the concept of God.

 

I recommend you to read this post of mine once again

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&showtopic=730006&view=findpost&p=1209940"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&sh...t&p=1209940[/url]

 

I do not believe that there isn't a god, there is not enough evidence for me to believe in a god.

Excuse me, I didnt understand what you mean there.

 

 

How many people in history have believed in their different gods

 

Muslims have been trying to tell the whole world not to believe in false gods and to return to the One true God who created you. If you analyse most of the major religion scriptures you would realise that it speaks about One true God. However, it is the teachings of their preists and churches that is changing the scriptures teachings.

 

with exactly the same attitude as you.

 

Nop and not exactly at all. Now that really makes it very clear that you have very limited knowledge of the concept of God in Islam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No, this is something that you don't understand.

 

I do not believe that there isn't a god, there is not enough evidence for me to believe in a god.

 

How many people in history have believed in their different gods with exactly the same attitude as you.

 

Can you disprove Ra, Hades, Helios or Zeus? the list is endless of previous gods, who are you to say your god exists and these other ones do not? Google Flying Spaghetti Monster and DISPROVE it.

 

It is not for me to disprove something you claim exists, if i were to tell you there is a Tea Pot orbiting around mars it would be my job to prove it to you, Oh also, this Tea Pot is invisible.

But it definitely is there...

 

I do not believe in evolution because there is not enough evidence for it and more evidence against it.

 

What would an atheist believe if they didn't have evolution?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Being an Atheist does not necessarily mean you believe in evolution, it is the rejection of theism.

It is the absence of belief in the existence of deities.

 

Us Atheists can believe whatever we want, we just share one thing in common which is that we do not believe in a god. This doesn't mean that we claim God does not exist, it simply means we believe there is not enough evidence.

 

You cant use the fact everything exists as evidence for god, Man created god in the image we aspire to be.

 

If your God is Omniscient then he must be quiet careless knowing how much bloodshed religion would cause in the long run. Maybe it would have been better if he had just not revealed himself to anyone...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Being an Atheist does not necessarily mean you believe in evolution, it is the rejection of theism.

It is the absence of belief in the existence of deities.

 

Atheist is a hypocritical belief system, you Dont believe in the existence of deities yet you errect up idols and worship those.

 

Us Atheists can believe whatever we want, we just share one thing in common which is that we do not believe in a god

 

this proves what i just said!

 

You cant use the fact everything exists as evidence for god, Man created god in the image we aspire to be.

 

If that was the case then we would worship man the only ones you find worshipping men are those who disbelieve in God. An atheist would errect a man up so fast and give nothing but praise to a man for his worldly achievements but will neglect the fact that that same man is nothing with out the world in which his studies took place. And to reject God they would claim nothing created this world except itself just so they can feel comfortable in their rejection of a Higher power. Because they errect themselves as THE higher power. But they use the podium of the theist to spring board into their belief...strange people these disbelievers are

 

If your God is Omniscient then he must be quiet careless knowing how much bloodshed religion would cause in the long run. Maybe it would have been better if he had just not revealed himself to anyone...

 

If you read the Quran you would see that the same thing you said is the same thing that the Angels said, they asked God would you create that which would cause bloodshed, and God said to them I know what you know not. And man has fought and created bloodshed and God has allowed us to live our lives and to grow into a better understanding of what God wants for the human being. There is going to come a time when humanity will look at its atrocities and based on our history we will move toward becoming more tolerent of one another and bloodshed will decrease. But God has allowed us this space for our growth, its not careless. If you have children are you going to do everything for them? Or are you going to raise them up and be a support system for them? This is in no way compared to God but He has crated us and put in us the natural urge and inclination to be good, we may slip and fall and make mistakes but God has laid out religion as a way of life a support system for us to rely on.

 

Now you talk about blood shed MR atheist but do you know that 99% if not 100% of the time it is those who donot believe in God that are the greedy power hungy tyrants that would do anything for power. They are the ones who corrupt religion for their own personal gain, they are the ones who start wars with God believing people that say that their tyrany is wrong. It is the atheist mind set people that are the upmost in creating blood shed. To us that believe in God we see that as proof that God is the most merciful that He would allow those who hate Him who reject Him to have power to create Blood shed with the hope that one day they will look back on their history and become a different people and a huge help to humanity. So you may be a rejector of God but your children might not be, or your grandchildren or your great great grandchildren may be God believing people.. God Knows what you know not!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You should read [Atheist Books Removed]

Its quite strange that when i recommend these books to any person with theistic beliefs they usually refuse without reason...

 

Also i came along this website the other day, turns out that, Ancient Greece knew of many of the AMAZING scientific facts within the Quran a couple of hundred years before Muhammed was even born.... especially what the Quran says about Embryology.

 

{Moderator note}

This post has violated forum rule #3. Action taken.

For more details, please read our (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?act=boardrules"]Forum Rules[/url].

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You should read [Atheist Books Removed]

Its quite strange that when i recommend these books to any person with theistic beliefs they usually refuse without reason...

 

Also i came along this website the other day, turns out that, Ancient Greece knew of many of the AMAZING scientific facts within the Quran a couple of hundred years before Muhammed was even born.... especially what the Quran says about Embryology.

 

Even if this true your trying to suggest that prophet muhammad who was illiterate in his own language was fluent in a langauge a continent away? AND he dug up greek manuscripts took the information recycled it then hid these again and they werent found again until recently, compiled them into a book of guidance with many others, and did what no other man has ever done before which is put all that and more into a book with no contradictions ? rather large claim, dont you think ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To be honest, i dont know what i want.

 

Yes I don't know what you want either, I got lost in a blizzard of words there. I'm not sure what you want to gain out of this topic.

 

Why is Islam the right religion? That is for you to answer.

 

People get attracted to Islam for many different reasons. Something they have in common is a strong spiritual connection with Allah. It is a very strong bond, converts to Islam I noticed have felt a very strong unbreakable bond with Allah. It is a unexplainable feeling, it cannot be defined. Once this bond has been established they do not question any Islamic teachings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bismillah-errrahman-erraheem. In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

 

Dear Anon1. I want to reply to your two main questions (or to the best of my knowledge what I believe your two main questions are):

 

1. The question of Adam and Eve and the perceived incompatibility of Islam and Evolution.

 

2. What proof Islam has to being the Truth, and what prove there is that Allah (God) exists.

 

For the First Question:

 

I believe that Nuh Ha Mim Keller, an American convert to Islam (and famous Muslim scholar) who believed in evolution before, explains it best:

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgrandestrategy(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/2009/02/6666699948838-Islam-evolution.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgrandestrategy(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/2009/02/6666...-evolution.html[/url]

 

I think that the heart of your question is more of a question about Islam vs. Evolution rather than about the existence of Adam and Eve (after all, it would be hard to find evidence of them on Earth, right?)

 

For your second question:

 

If it is a coincidence, it would certainly be a strange coincidence that so many cultures the world over believe in some form of creator. Anyways, there is no "hard" evidence, otherwise everyone would be Muslim, or at least believe in God or Allah or whatever else they may want to call the Creator.

 

One of the challenges of Islam is that the Quran is evidence that this is a divine book. And if it is a divine book, then by argument, there must be a Creator. You may find Maurice Boucaille's book La Bible, Le Coran, et les Sciences (or the Bible, the Quran and Science) most instructive. It is written by a French surgeon and rationalist who originally undertook the study to find fault with the Quran.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislambasics(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?act=download&BID=4"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislambasics(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?act=download&BID=4[/url]

 

As such, a sceptic's perspective, which you may find that you are able to relate to. Written by an accomplished scientist, you can easily follow it and cross-check what he discusses. The claim here is that if the Quran has been unchanged, and written by an illiterate man 1400+ years ago, then there must be in it that which can be disproved by hard "iron cast" scientific fact. Conversely, if not, then it is possibly the truth.

 

I would lastly like to humbly leave you with a few important resources in your research:

 

1. whyislam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)

2. Islamtomorrow(contact admin if its a beneficial link)

3. AND MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL: A good translation of the Quran - either by Marmaduke Pickthall, Muhammad Asad, Muhsin Khan, Yusuf Ali or some other authentic translator.

I have found this to be the cheapest place to get a copy: koranusa(contact admin if its a beneficial link)

After all, any serious effort to study Islam must include reading what we claim as the proof..

 

I would also suggest finding good explanations wherever possible. I personally like the Bayyinah institute's work:

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_bayyinah(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/dream/podcast/"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_bayyinah(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/dream/podcast/[/url]

 

4. thedeenshow(contact admin if its a beneficial link)

 

5. Islamevents(contact admin if its a beneficial link)

 

May Allah guide you, and peace and blessings be upon you.

Edited by mhussain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brother,

 

You have opened the door now give what you find a chance...

 

Salam,

 

JamesYaqub

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if Mohammad (SAAW) found these ancient greek scriptures, could read (let alone read greek), and decided for some reason to put it in the quran to deceive people (how he thought it would deceive the arabs of his time is beyond me) and then, MOST IMPORTANTLY, fix the errors in the theories that the greeks had is quiet an accomplishment. By the way, I've only heard that Mohammad (SAAW) might have taken the information regarding embryology - that's what most non-muslims like to quote; like I mentioned above many of these greek theories regarding embryology is faulty but the quranic account of embryology is 100% accurate. You say that you can't prove any religion is true; I beg to differ. I am a muslim because I feel like there is substantial evidence proving that there is no way the quran is anything but the word of god. I would recommend listening to Dr. Gary Miller lectures.

 

SALAM BROTHERS AND SISTERS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The creation of the universe described in the Qur'aan differs from what the Bible describes, even if both mentions that it was created in six days.

The days mentioned in the Bible have one light and one dark period or something like it.

We all know that the day and night is by the sunrise and sunset, within the solar system. What about farther in the space, how does the day and night occurs?

A day according to the Qur'aan outside the solar system is a laps of time equivalent to 1000 years.

22:47. And they demand of thee to hasten on the punishment, but Allah will never break HIS promise. And, verily, a day with thy Lord is sometimes as a thousand years of your reckoning.

So when the Qur'aan says the universe was created in six days, it is six laps of time of a length equivalent to whatever Allah means.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a good idea what those "atheist books" are. Suffice to say that I am actually reading through them, and I am not impressed by their "logic" (or rather, the lack of it). Militant atheism and missionary Christianity base their "belief" (ironically, militant atheism is no different from any theist belief) on assumptions that are easily refutable.

 

I am working on a website that will be dedicated to refuting militant Atheism, I am sure it will be helpful once it is ready and launched.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam(peace) for the followers of the righteous path: look into the charter of the UNO & and the Basic of the UNO's charter; .......established to bring PEACE & SECURITY in the WORLD. As we know, it is after WWII i.e after very much destruction i.e destruction of million & million people like you(a person).Why they choose these two terms --PEACE & SECURITY a solution for the on-ward life of the whole mankind.It was stated 1369 years before in THE HOLY QURA'N.Meanings of the Quranic text( as i have no such ability to quote excatly) " To day I have completed for you ,your DEEN(Islam) AND fulled my blessings and is willing to have "Islam" your DEEN(complete way of life).

Look, Brother. Islam(from SALAMA))=SECURITY(DICTIONARY MEANING),and

IYMAN(from AMN) =PEACE (DICTIONARY MEANING ).

And when both are mentioning,then IYMAN & Islam is the order i.e= peace & security

and when only Islam,then IYMAN is including in Islam.

Again ,it was not only a personal solution , but also for all & all,recognized but in wordings and not in meanings(reality)--in the absence ,we see the lackness and so more & more problems as compare to pre-establishment of the UNO.

look NOW YOURSELF,AS AN INDIVIDUAL CASE among the whole like you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Islam is derived from the Arabic root "SALEMA": peace, purity, submission and obedience. In the religious sense, Islam means submission to the will of God and obedience to His law.

 

Everything and every phenomenon in the world, other than man is administered TOTALLY by God-made laws i.e. they are obedient to God and submissive to His laws i.e. they are in the STATE OF Islam. Man possesses the quality of intelligence and choice, thus he is invited to submit to the good will of God and obey His law ie. become a Muslim. Submission to the good will of God, together with obedience to His beneficial law, i.e. becoming a Muslim is the best safeguard for man's peace and harmony.

 

Islam dates back to the edge of Adam and its message has been conveyed to man by God's Prophets and Messengers including Abrahim, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. Islam's message has been restored and enforced in the last stage of the religious evolution by God's last Prophet and Messenger Muhammad.

 

The word Allah in the Arabic language means God, or more accurately The One and Only Eternal God, Creator of theUniverse, Lord of all lords, King of all kings, MostCompassionate, Most Merciful. The word Allah to mean God is also used by Arabic speaking Jews and Christians.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×