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Brothers Can We Stop Following Conspirsay Theories?

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we dont need conspiracy theories to teach us whats going on today

 

Allah knows best

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I think it is always a good idea to approach stories with a degree of skepticism, and to not commit ourselves to them without verification from other sources that have a different perspective than the first. There is too much propaganda on all sides to not be wary, especially when it seems that we are being told that one group or person is all bad or all good.

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All depend on what conspiracy you're tallking about. If it's about the international jew, I am all for it. If you know nuts about it, you have things to learn bro - you are blind.

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All depend on what conspiracy you're tallking about. If it's about the international jew, I am all for it. If you know nuts about it, you have things to learn bro - you are blind.

Why are you particularly open to that kind of conspiracy theory?

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That conspiracy is the truth from what I know, study it and you won't regret . You can start by reading the Protocols then maybe you can read Henry Ford's The International Jew . 'Course we are not saying here all Jews are bad. But by design Jews are doyens of the whites, so they are quite reluctant to accept anything like that - kind of blind in one eye.

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Elsewhere in the Politics forum (in the Articles section, I think) there is at least one long discussion about the authenticity of the Protocols. As I recall there was no evience at all offered that they are authentic other than "they might be, because we know Jews are inherently bad, an we know this because of the Protocols". Not a compelling argument.

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Critical thinking dissipates conspiracy theories . There is an obvious absence of critical thinking in all conspiracy theories .

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Critical thinking dissipates conspiracy theories . There is an obvious absence of critical thinking in all conspiracy theories .

 

That's an interesting comment. Are you saying all conspiracy theories are false? The Reichstag fire, which helped the Nazi party gain a majority and pass the Enabling Act, is now being considered by historians using Gestapo archives as a false flag operation by the Nazis themselves. Meaning they started the fire and then claimed it was a communist plot to take over Germany. Anyone who thought that at the time would have been dismissed as a conspiracy theorist.

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Emotion , predisposed bias , political or social agendas , these are the stuff of conspiracy theories . A false flag operation is just that , and it's success depends on the preconcieved notions of those it is expected to decieve .The nazi regime can not be considered by any means a free thinking society . In fact all of it's aims and goals were utterly transparent , but by the time the Reichstag fire took place , there was no longer any possibility of rational , let alone critical thinking . Any statements or alleged conspiracies , espoused by that regime , were soley for the purpose of furthering it's ultimate goals as they were obvious . And any criticism would be immediately crushed , as that regime was absolutely controlled by a deranged tyrant .

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Emotion , predisposed bias , political or social agendas , these are the stuff of conspiracy theories .

 

Emotion, predisposed bias, political or social agendas are arguably features of all theories (bar scientific ones).

 

A false flag operation is just that , and it's success depends on the preconcieved notions of those it is expected to decieve .The nazi regime can not be considered by any means a free thinking society . In fact all of it's aims and goals were utterly transparent , but by the time the Reichstag fire took place , there was no longer any possibility of rational , let alone critical thinking . Any statements or alleged conspiracies , espoused by that regime , were soley for the purpose of furthering it's ultimate goals as they were obvious . And any criticism would be immediately crushed , as that regime was absolutely controlled by a deranged tyrant .

 

Sure, but that doesn't take away from the fact that people who believed it was a false flag operation at the time would have been conspiracy theorists because they had no evidence to support their claim. Nor did they have the forsight that the Enabling Act which would follow would usher in Hitler as the dictator of Germany. If they were alive today they would have been proven right in their suspicions.

 

In fact all of it's aims and goals were utterly transparent , but by the time the Reichstag fire took place , there was no longer any possibility of rational , let alone critical thinking .

 

This was another interesting argument. I have to say, I don't agree with your account of history. Perhaps I'm wrong and you could correct me? If all their goals were completely transparent by 1933, why did Hitler get 35% of second round votes when he ran for President? Why was he allowed to become chancellor of a coalition government only two months prior to the fire? This could not have been possible if all his goals were utterly transparent. People of the Reichstag would not have allowed such progress if they knew he would later stampede the Reichstag and declare himself a god of Germany. By the time the fire happened, political activism was still happening in Germany and the Nazis were yet to crush critisism or desent as they didn't have the strength. The Nazis were conspiring, and those who realized this were conspiracy theorists.

 

It seems rather naive on your part to believe that conspiracies cannot be devised by supposedly free governments or elements within free societies. Not all conspiracy theories lack critical thinking, they lack evidence. There's a difference. One could look at certain facts, join up all the dots and produce a picture different to the one the authorities are portraying. But if you don't have access to the stuff required to prove your point, you will forever be a conspiracy nut. Kinda like the people who after the Reichstag fire couldn't get the Gestapo files which were locked away safely in a Nazi party building.

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Here's a hint Josh . Gestapo files were not necessarry to determine , by any reasoned mind , that it was in fact a false flag operation . What you are missing ,is the fact that there was no possibility of criticism . If you know anything of the Third Reich , it would be quite apparent , that to dispute the regimes claims would get you a ticket to a concentration camp , or worse . You boverestimate the naivity and innocence of the German people of those times , they were resentfull of the Veresailles Treaty , and blamed their condition on it , and they were partly right . It therefore was an easy step to accept the looming German Hegemony which was about to take place . Do you really think that those going to the concentration camps were thought by the Germans to be simply "work camps " . By 1933 , foreign radio had already been banned , any criticism of the Reich could get one killed , so by the time the fire occurred , the people were either firmly of tghe opinion of the Reich , or to scared to criticize it .

 

As I said there was no place for critical thinking .

 

Funny you should mention science , since in most consapiracy theories , it is thoroughly ignored .So too are facts , since if a theory is backed with facts , that is real facts , it is no longer a theory .Conspiracy theories thrive on precisely a lack of facyts , and theredfore trump critical thinking which is based in fact , science and non-biased thinking , but more than this , the crtical thinker has the ability to rethink his position should fact and logic contradict his held position .

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To elaborate Josh , there is presently a perfect example of how critical thinking is absent in conspiracy theories .

Take the case of President Obamas birth certificate . It has been established as fact that he was born of an American mother on US soil [Hawaii ]. There is an announcement of his birth in the newspaper archives confirming the date, the place, and the parents .Yet those with an agenda persist in holding to their position that thewre was some sort of conspiracy on the part of Obama and his supporters to a) conceal the allegation that he in fact was not born on American soil, b) that the records of his birth have been concealed or altered , thereby making him ineligible to be President .Now if any of this were true , then the conspiracy would have to have started in the year of his birth when the newspapers printed the announcement of his birth . Not to mention the fact, that if there was any truth to it , the Republicans would have siezed on it immediately , but instead they encourage those in their political base by holding up "the possibility " .

Critical thinking is absent , facts are ignored and pushed aside for the sake of personal and political agendas . A classic case study of a conspiracy theory .

 

But you know as well as I , that at the end of the day , people will believe what they want to believe and disregard the rest . There are ,many examples of this in the immediate present , and one need not reference the past , for people have not changed .They are merely more sophisticated in their denials .

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Henry Ford has credibility - ' course you can argue till the cows come home but articles like the Protocols cannot be written by a mere mortal, you have to appreciate that. It's farsightedness is awsome. It was written by the Anti-Christ himself. I can think only the Quran and the Hadiths as its rival. Then again it is a matter of faith, take your choice.

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Here's a hint Josh . Gestapo files were not necessarry to determine , by any reasoned mind , that it was in fact a false flag operation .

 

And here's a revelation Joachim, Gestapo files were necessary to prove that it was a false flag operation. Without them it would have forever been a conspiracy theory. Why the double standards? People of a reasoned mind can claim their government is conspiring today, but you would seemingly dismiss them as lacking in critical thinking. Why? Because they wouldn't have proof. So a reasoned mind didn't need proof that the Nazis started the fire but a reasoned mind would need proof to show USA is guilty of economic imperialism (for example)?

 

What you are missing ,is the fact that there was no possibility of criticism . If you know anything of the Third Reich , it would be quite apparent , that to dispute the regimes claims would get you a ticket to a concentration camp , or worse . You boverestimate the naivity and innocence of the German people of those times , they were resentfull of the Veresailles Treaty , and blamed their condition on it , and they were partly right . It therefore was an easy step to accept the looming German Hegemony which was about to take place . Do you really think that those going to the concentration camps were thought by the Germans to be simply "work camps " . By 1933 , foreign radio had already been banned , any criticism of the Reich could get one killed , so by the time the fire occurred , the people were either firmly of tghe opinion of the Reich , or to scared to criticize it .

 

I was referring to the Reichstag who allowed the Nazis to emerge from a banned organisation to having it's leader become the chancellor. If they were fully aware that he would then dissolve the Reichstag, why would they have allowed him in? Could you provide me with a source of what you've said above?

 

As I said there was no place for critical thinking .

 

Okay, let's agree there was no critical thinking around the time the fire happened. What about after the war ended? Those who believed the fire was a false flag operation in hindsight would have also been expressing a conspiracy theory. There was no proof. But these people would have been proven right years later.

 

Funny you should mention science , since in most consapiracy theories , it is thoroughly ignored .So too are facts , since if a theory is backed with facts , that is real facts , it is no longer a theory .Conspiracy theories thrive on precisely a lack of facyts , and theredfore trump critical thinking which is based in fact , science and non-biased thinking , but more than this , the crtical thinker has the ability to rethink his position should fact and logic contradict his held position .

 

You seem to be missing the fact that there will always be asymmetry of information between those who are conspiring and those who suspect them. The 'real facts' are presented by the very people who are conspiring. Ackowledging this asymmetry is an essential part of critical thinking. This is how police investigations work, where they suspect someone of conspiring against the system. They assume that the supposed facts being expressed by the suspect are not true or may not be true. There is asymmetry here, i.e. the suspect holds all the cards to their chest, whilst the police have to dig out the real facts.

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Sorry josh , critical thinking is not used in police investigations , the police consider everyone a suspect , and work to eliminate those suspects until they reach what they consider the truth , they then make their arrest , and itv is brought before a grand jury for indictment with a trial to follow . All police investigations contain a predisposed bias toward guilt of the individuals they are questioning as suspects .Conviction or acquittal is by judge and jury . You offer a poor example .

 

If you wish , I will list the characteristics and mechanisms of critical thinking , and you can apply them then , to any conspiracy theory you choose , and form your opinion , from an informed position.

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Henry Ford has credibility - ' course you can argue till the cows come home but articles like the Protocols cannot be written by a mere mortal, you have to appreciate that. It's farsightedness is awsome. It was written by the Anti-Christ himself. I can think only the Quran and the Hadiths as its rival. Then again it is a matter of faith, take your choice.

 

No, Henry Ford has no credibility as a historian - is fact his most famous utterance is "History is bunk".

 

Secondly if it was "written by the Anti-Christ himself", then the Anti-Christ is not a very origional thinker - it has been proven to have been plagiarised from an earlier work which was not about Jews.

Edited by wattle

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No, Henry Ford has no credibility as a historian - is fact his most famous utterance is "History is bunk".

 

Secondly if it was "written by the Anti-Christ himself", then the Anti-Christ is not a very origional thinker - it has been proven to have been plagiarised from an earlier work which was not about Jews.

 

I don't understand their fascination with the "Jews rule the world" conspiracy theories either.

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LOL, because it is the "grandaddy of conspiracy theories " , devoid of critical thinking , and it is used for the same reason the original user a Russian politician ,used it for- to defame the jews . The only difference is that the Russian's use was local , and presently it has morphed to a global scale .

Funny , how is it the jews have not taken over the world yet ? , given all their alleged resources and accomplices . But the rationale is that ,if you don't believe it , then you are part of it , that is a willing or duped accomplice . Henry Ford was neither historian , philosopher , or intellectual , he simply had alot of mony , which buys attention , and of course with which he paid for this fraud to be published in several languages . Was he " a good man "?

 

Ask the workers at his auto plants of that time , who had to face Henry Ford's paid Goon Squads , when they attempted to struggle or strike for workers rights .

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Sorry josh , critical thinking is not used in police investigations ,

 

Try reading what I said again. I said "acknowledging this asymmetry is an essential part of critical thinking." I then went on to give you an example of what happens when there is asymmetry of information between someone who is conspiring and one who is investigating. Is that clear?

 

 

If you wish , I will list the characteristics and mechanisms of critical thinking , and you can apply them then , to any conspiracy theory you choose , and form your opinion , from an informed position.

 

 

If you wish, you could answer some of the questions I posed in my previous post.

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Your questions are circular Josh , conspiracy theories simply do not contain any form of critical thinking , you can apply the principles of critical thinking to any of today's popular conspiracy theories , and you will see for yourself , that just about all of those principle are routinely violated .

 

As for your statement and example , I did read it , and if there was a point to be made of "asymetry " of information , then you shouldn't have used police interrogation/investigation as your example . Asymetry of information ? you mean of course conflicting information don't you ?

 

Critical thinking identifies "ambiguous information " then proceeds to isolate fact from fiction ,while at the same time applying logic and reason , a process which is non-existent in conspiracy theories , for they feed on ambiguity .

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Your questions are circular Josh , conspiracy theories simply do not contain any form of critical thinking , you can apply the principles of critical thinking to any of today's popular conspiracy theories , and you will see for yourself , that just about all of those principle are routinely violated .

 

As for your statement and example , I did read it , and if there was a point to be made of "asymetry " of information , then you shouldn't have used police interrogation/investigation as your example . Asymetry of information ? you mean of course conflicting information don't you ?

 

Critical thinking identifies "ambiguous information " then proceeds to isolate fact from fiction ,while at the same time applying logic and reason , a process which is non-existent in conspiracy theories , for they feed on ambiguity .

 

I see you have refused to answer any of my questions,

 

It doesn't matter, because your original point has been refuted by one example.

 

In the 1950s (for example), people who considered the Reichstag fire to be a false flag operation were expressing a conspiracy theory (retrospectively). It was a conspiracy theory because there was no factual evidence to link the Nazis with the fire.

 

According to your first post, these people who believed this were lacking in critical thinking, like all conspiracy theories.

 

However, in the late 1980s and early 1990s, the Gestapo arhives, which were not available before, confirmed that the Nazis were involved in the fire. Thus the conspiracy theorists were correct.

 

You can argue the semantics about critical thinking if you like, but your underlying premise is that all conspiracy theories are wrong. The Reichstag fire example proves you wrong.

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Josh , I hate to inform you of historical facts you should already know ,but if you are going to use references to the nazi Regime as part of your argument , an imparticular the Reichstag fire , then you also should be aware thast most people of that time , already knew it wasn't communists or jews who burnt down the Reichstag . You choose to view history through a narrow lens of personal opinion and bias . If the files did anything , they confirmed , for the doubters what everyone already knew .

Hitler had agendas , regarding the jew and the communists , and this as a rationale to further persecute the jews who were then associated with the communists by proxy , and as cause for his invasion of the Soviet Union .

 

What "questions" do you have Josh ? , that are not self serving and irrelevant or rhetorical ? Besides history has already answered them . There are no "semantics " as you claim in the processes of critical thinking . Perhaps you do need to investigate them on your own , because you are unaware of these critical points in that type of thinking .

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BTW , Josh , the Reichstag fire was indeed a conspiracy theory , espouised by Hitlere and foisted on his own people . Whether it worked is irrelevant since no one could question it at the time . But it was untrue , it was proven wrong for those who neecded put under their noses to rrealize it . In an absolute dictatorship , such as the one that existed in Germany of that time , there were no questions as to what the regime dictated as fact . There are no comparisons to that which permeates the conspiracy theory groups of today , as there are no restrictions on information gathdering , no threats of death or imprisonment ,nor barriers to intellectual inquiry . All the more reason to discard these unprovable and persisten theories . The fact that they do persist in spite of such wide array of free resources , simply proves that they are based soley in personal agenda , biases and ideologies . Nothing more . For there has been plenty of time and resources for those "theories ' to have been proven out , but they haven't .

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