Jump to content
Islamic Forum
JamesYaqub

Deceptive Anti-Islam Practices By Christians

Recommended Posts

I read a lot about this. I have come to believe that most of it is true. I have interacted with some people, one just recently, who continually attacks the Quran armed with half-truths. I try to explain to him that he would make no converts to Christianity by being negative about Islam. Better he should tell us about the good aspects of his religion. So many though will behave like used car salesmen and attempt to sell their product by attempting to undermine the competition.

 

Competition? Competition in religion? Yes I have seen it personally. Some Christians blindly seem to be concerned with numbers rather than honesty. But here is what I see when I listen to them. Shall we move to accept their religion and then become like them? One of the great beauties of Islam is it's maturity in these matters. I've never yet seen an Imam at a Masjid who's primacy concern was music or missionary work. I left Christianity for Islam. I see in Islam the simplicity of worship which might have existed in Christianity long ago. But Christianity now is too much like a business, filled with slogans and marketing techniques for me.

 

Yes brothers and sisters there is truth in the claim that some missionaries seem more like salesmen than men of God. It's just the way human beings can behave when they begin to lose true direction and purpose. Anyone who doubts my contention PM me and I'll give you a link to one (on a Christian forum) who does this.

 

JY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PropellerAds

Religiously the "Christians" were not allowed to preach and convert people to their religion, but most certainly "deviations" from the original source is what making this happen. Islam respects all Monotheistic religions i.e. Judaism and Christianity as long as they follow the "monotheistic" approach, but as soon as Christianity lunges forwards to the "trinatarian" beliefs, Islam dis-engages itself from this beliefs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Religiously the "Christians" were not allowed to preach and convert people to their religion,

 

But Jesus preached extensively, and tried to convert people. He encouraged His disciples to spread the word. What makes you think it was not allowed?

 

I do agree that some Christians use questionable tactics to gain conversions, but so do adherents of other religions. Harun Yahya (?sp) springs to mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I read a lot about this. I have come to believe that most of it is true. I have interacted with some people, one just recently, who continually attacks the Quran armed with half-truths. I try to explain to him that he would make no converts to Christianity by being negative about Islam. Better he should tell us about the good aspects of his religion. So many though will behave like used car salesmen and attempt to sell their product by attempting to undermine the competition.

 

Competition? Competition in religion? Yes I have seen it personally. Some Christians blindly seem to be concerned with numbers rather than honesty. But here is what I see when I listen to them. Shall we move to accept their religion and then become like them? One of the great beauties of Islam is it's maturity in these matters. I've never yet seen an Imam at a Masjid who's primacy concern was music or missionary work. I left Christianity for Islam. I see in Islam the simplicity of worship which might have existed in Christianity long ago. But Christianity now is too much like a business, filled with slogans and marketing techniques for me.

 

Yes brothers and sisters there is truth in the claim that some missionaries seem more like salesmen than men of God. It's just the way human beings can behave when they begin to lose true direction and purpose. Anyone who doubts my contention PM me and I'll give you a link to one (on a Christian forum) who does this.

 

JY

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Gandhi

I agree that competition is wrong in this context (in most cases, but I won't get into the exceptions.)

But you can't blame the Christians for wanting to spread their Message, It is One of unlimited forgiveness and unlimited love. But those who lie about their faith in order to convert are just... "disillusioned" would be an understatement.

Although, at least the Christians do not have reservations in who they talk to like Sura 3:28 commands nor do they have provisions under which they can lie to unbelievers and not sin.

The ones who act like this are the ones who can give the faith a bad name. They were the reason I left Christianity, well that and the fact that Christianity today is totally pagan.

 

Religiously the "Christians" were not allowed to preach and convert people to their religion, but most certainly "deviations" from the original source is what making this happen. Islam respects all Monotheistic religions i.e. Judaism and Christianity as long as they follow the "monotheistic" approach, but as soon as Christianity lunges forwards to the "trinatarian" beliefs, Islam dis-engages itself from this beliefs.

Ummm... That's not quite true. There's actually an interesting story that totally relates and I'd love to share but won't because going into detail like that may be seen as right-away proselytizing.

Mark 16:5 - And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation."

Matthew 28:19-20 - "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

 

Plus, I hope you understand that, at least from the Christian viewpoint, the "trinity" is three different expressions of how one God is. I mean, I believe the Bible, but am not really a "trinitarian" or hold the man-made doctrine that defines God (haha), but I can certainly understand how they see God as "three in one." It really isn't polytheistic like many claim, you have to step back for a second to see things through anothers' eyes. It makes sense in the end, but so do some other beliefs like those in the Tao Te Ching. I may not follow or agree with parts, but I can understand where they come from. Don't stop respecting because you can't understand or you disagree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have seen some Christians use arguments against the Qur'an that well... I can use the same ones on them. For instance they say that because God abrogates verses (or revelations) that contradicts his unchanging nature therefore Allah (swt) is false (Astaghfirullah). But... doesn't the God of the Bible do the same thing? From the Old Testament to the New? And also God in the Bible repents...

Well anyways that is just some of them, I am sure there are Muslims like that too (but haven't run into any or heard of any... then again I live in a Christian nation, I am sure in a Muslim nation ehhh you get what I mean)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

James,

Much of what you say is very true indeed.

Can you honestly say that you were a "born again" Christian?

If so, maybe you could give us a little bit of YOUR experience

in this past Christian world of yours, or send me an e-mail.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So why did Jesus Christ told his disciples not to go to gentiles??? However being a Muslim we cannot even think of disrespecting Jesus Christ, so just take what I said in its context. thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So why did Jesus Christ told his disciples not to go to gentiles??? However being a Muslim we cannot even think of disrespecting Jesus Christ, so just take what I said in its context. thanks

I will address that if you will allow me. God had prepared the Jews for the coming Messiah, so they had the background needed to be good Christians upon conversion. The main reasons Christianity had to go to the Jews first, because if it went to the gentiles (that were hungering for it) they could not go back to the Jews that would then rightly perceive it as a Gentile religion and not consider it. The Jews were to remain separated from the gentile until all their promises were fulfilled ,the Jews were to be a literal earthly Kingdom of God, but could not live up to the requirements, thus the rules on being separate from gentiles. God caused/allowed a lot of things to happen in order to show and persuade the Jews that gentiles were now true spiritual descendents of Abraham, by faith. Acts 10 Peter gets a vision and gentiles have the baptism of the Holy Spirit right before Peter and other Church leaders. There is much persecution of Jewish Christians in Jerusalem that cause these Jewish Christians to flee to Gentile countries. The famine in Judea was prophesied so Gentile Christians sent huge sums of money to the Jewish Christians prior to the famine so these Jews were grateful to gentiles. Finally there are the prophecies and a sign is given concerning the destruction of Jerusalem that virtually destroys the jewish nation and all records of who is truly a Jew.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

כָּמֹ֑הוּ שַׁקֵּ֧ץ ׀ תְּֽשַׁקְּצֶ֛נּוּ וְתַעֵ֥ב ׀ תְּֽתַֽעֲבֶ֖נּוּ כִּי־חֵ֥רֶם הֽוּא׃"Burn the carved statues of their gods in a fire; don't desire the silver or gold that decorates them and take it for yourself in case it entraps you: it is disgusting to Adonai your God. Don't bring anything disgusting like that [i.e. like the precious metals that decorate the gentiles' idols] into your house or you will become ḥérem like them [i.e. like the idol-worshippers] — you are to feel total revulsion and utter disgust for each of them because they are ḥérem." (D'varim 7:25-26)

 

6-story Jesus statue in Ohio struck by lightning: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetmsnbc.msn(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/id/37703784/?Gt1=43001"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetmsnbc.msn(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/id/37703784/?Gt1=43001[/url] Lord save Jesus- point intended.

 

You can trust "al ameen" Paul.

 

"Galatians 2:11-13

11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. "

 

Edited by Orthodox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nopes, than why it was said that "I have exclusively be sent for the House of israelites"???? - You are not even bothering to answer what is written in the Bible

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JAMES' TESTIMONY can be found here:

Post #37 in the Thread ... Christians: Did Jesus’ followers worship him?

 

As I suspected, he shows no indication that he ever was a real Christian (born again by God's Spirit).

He was raised in a Roman Catholic family and attended church. Means nothing.

He moved from church to church, searching for something that seemed far away.

The Catholic church is like a giant octupus with many tentacles.

But, I believe all priests are forced to preach the Triune God: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

Jesus explained:

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him†(John 6:44)

James was never drawn by Father God, and he never came to Jesus.

So, I'm just saying that he's another who claims to have switched from Christianity to Islam.

Now, the next thing in world history to come our way will be ...

a pile of nonsense from our very own Bosnian Orthodox gru.

But, we're not forced to read her ... are we?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As I suspected, he shows no indication that he ever was a real Christian (born again by God's Spirit).

He was raised in a Roman Catholic family and attended church. Means nothing.

What is so wrong being a non-missionary convert?

 

But, I believe all priests are forced to preach the Triune God: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

No they are not.

 

a pile of nonsense from our very own Bosnian Orthodox gru.

But, we're not forced to read her ... are we?

I don't understand why you keep mentioning my birth-place. Aren't you against gods as statues?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nopes, than why it was said that "I have exclusively be sent for the House of israelites"???? - You are not even bothering to answer what is written in the Bible

OK, I am sorry I did not know you were referring to a specific passage and just gave you a general answer.

 

A specific Bible passage priorities for interpreting are; context, context, context and context.

 

Jesus was only sent to the Jews (but doe take time to help Gentiles and Samaritans as part of His teaching the 12) , since His ministry was only going to be for 3 years and time was mostly to train 12 Jewish disciples. Jesus prior to his leaving will send them out: Mark 16:15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.â€

Here is the quote in the context:

22A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession."

23Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."

24He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of israel."

25The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said.

26He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

27"Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table."

28Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

 

Prior to the women even asking: Jesus “knows†everyone’s attitude, Jesus knows the persistence and heart of the women, but most importantly Jesus knows the attitude of His disciples.

 

Jesus is constantly in a teacher/training mode with His disciples, for they need lots of preparation (attitudes that need changing), because Jesus will only be with them for a short period 3 years (virtually everything Jesus says and does is to help train the 12).

 

Jesus makes this caustic (a putdown statement) to this Gentile woman after His 12 disciples have shown a distain for gentile women in saying: “send her away…â€. Jesus is setting a stage (first hand visual example for the 12) to show what tremendous faith and Love she has. Jesus is trying to get to the point of saying to the shock of His disciples “Woman, you have great faith!â€

 

This is to shock His disciples into see the value a Gentile women can have. He will set the stage again to show a Gentile man with Luke 7:9 he said, "I tell you, I have not found such great faith even in israel." To the shock and help the Jewish crowd (including the 12) following Him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

James,

Much of what you say is very true indeed.

Can you honestly say that you were a "born again" Christian?

If so, maybe you could give us a little bit of YOUR experience

in this past Christian world of yours, or send me an e-mail.

 

 

 

 

There are many Christians who will say that only "born again" Christians are the real ones. I have heard these good people declare that if one is of another kind of Christianity and not "born again" that there were really not a Christian in the first place. Of course this rationale is most unfair to the vast majority of Christians in the world who do not adhere to the "born again" philosophy as it is interpreted by some minor but vocal protestant denominations. What I am getting at is that I have been told that "you were never a Christian in the first place" by some people who seek only to assert their own definitions into the mix reinforced with (one of many) interpretations of scripture. No. I was not a born again Christian. My church did not believe nor teach that "kind" of Christianity.

 

My reasons for reversion to Islam had nothing to do with any dislike of Christianity however. They were more personal than that. Much more so. One thing in particular is the act of praying in Islam. Touching the forehead to the "ground" is a sublime act of humility. After 62 years of Christianity I had learned all there is to know about that faith and I felt it was time to move on to another group of God's children. Does God have a religious preference? I say "no". God can see into our hearts and here are things hidden from the world of men. God knows more than we do. I trust in God and will follow my heart. I am Muslim and will not go back.

 

Assalamu,

 

JamesYaqub

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JAMES' TESTIMONY can be found here:

Post #37 in the Thread ... Christians: Did Jesus’ followers worship him?

 

As I suspected, he shows no indication that he ever was a real Christian (born again by God's Spirit).

He was raised in a Roman Catholic family and attended church. Means nothing.

He moved from church to church, searching for something that seemed far away.

The Catholic church is like a giant octupus with many tentacles.

But, I believe all priests are forced to preach the Triune God: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

Jesus explained:

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him†(John 6:44)

James was never drawn by Father God, and he never came to Jesus.

So, I'm just saying that he's another who claims to have switched from Christianity to Islam.

Now, the next thing in world history to come our way will be ...

a pile of nonsense from our very own Bosnian Orthodox gru.

But, we're not forced to read her ... are we?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Peace to you Truth Seeker,

 

God will bless you as you follow your path to Him....

 

JamesYaqub

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It must take great wisdom to know the heart and mind of another man or woman, as well as the mind of God, to be able to declare them not truly people of the religion they profess to be. And it must also require great heights of knowledge from which one is able to gaze down upon another and belittle their arguments by striking at their country and knowledge base. Such great feats are beyond me.

 

 

The Tao has no place for pettiness, and nor has Virtue. Pettiness is dangerous to Virtue; pettiness is dangerous to the Tao. It is said, rectify yourself and be done.

Tao Te Ching (6 Century BCE)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There are many Christians who will say that only "born again" Christians are the real ones. I have heard these good people declare that if one is of another kind of Christianity and not "born again" that there were really not a Christian in the first place. Of course this rationale is most unfair to the vast majority of Christians in the world who do not adhere to the "born again" philosophy as it is interpreted by some minor but vocal protestant denominations. What I am getting at is that I have been told that "you were never a Christian in the first place" by some people who seek only to assert their own definitions into the mix reinforced with (one of many) interpretations of scripture. No. I was not a born again Christian. My church did not believe nor teach that "kind" of Christianity.

 

My reasons for reversion to Islam had nothing to do with any dislike of Christianity however. They were more personal than that. Much more so. One thing in particular is the act of praying in Islam. Touching the forehead to the "ground" is a sublime act of humility. After 62 years of Christianity I had learned all there is to know about that faith and I felt it was time to move on to another group of God's children. Does God have a religious preference? I say "no". God can see into our hearts and here are things hidden from the world of men. God knows more than we do. I trust in God and will follow my heart. I am Muslim and will not go back.

 

Assalamu,

 

JamesYaqub

I agree that humility is something that is missing in many faiths and with a lot of groups that call themselves Christians. It is the hurdle that we must cross, that is just a line in the sand. It is extremely hard for humans to accept “charity†especially when the giver must make a huge sacrifice to be charitable. We have a hard time accepting a unconditional, undeserving free gift, because that requires humility. We want to pay the giver back somehow and come up with ways we think we can do it or we set up requirements to be somehow deserving of the charity, or we view ourselves as at least being more deserving then someone else. God is offering forgiveness and all we have to do is accept His forgiveness and “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…â€

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that humility is something that is missing in many faiths and with a lot of groups that call themselves Christians. It is the hurdle that we must cross, that is just a line in the sand. It is extremely hard for humans to accept “charity†especially when the giver must make a huge sacrifice to be charitable. We have a hard time accepting a unconditional, undeserving free gift, because that requires humility. We want to pay the giver back somehow and come up with ways we think we can do it or we set up requirements to be somehow deserving of the charity, or we view ourselves as at least being more deserving then someone else. God is offering forgiveness and all we have to do is accept His forgiveness and “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…â€

 

 

 

Indeed God offers us forgiveness always. God offers this unconditionally? No. We must repent and there is still restitution to be met. We gain forgiveness but do not evade responsibility for our transgressions. What religious followings are required by God? None. We may choose our spiritual paths as dictated by our hearts. We may have no religion at. Forgiveness is still held out for all. So where is the 2,000 year old debate between the world's three chief religions? Unresolved of course. But resolved or not the dead continue to be redeemed. This is quite true and always has been. Each of us must stay in our religions and become the best representative thereof. In this way the troubles between peoples will stop and the stage will be set for His return.

 

Blessings to all,

 

JamesYaqub

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that humility is something that is missing in many faiths and with a lot of groups that call themselves Christians. It is the hurdle that we must cross, that is just a line in the sand. It is extremely hard for humans to accept “charity†especially when the giver must make a huge sacrifice to be charitable. We have a hard time accepting a unconditional, undeserving free gift, because that requires humility. We want to pay the giver back somehow and come up with ways we think we can do it or we set up requirements to be somehow deserving of the charity, or we view ourselves as at least being more deserving then someone else. God is offering forgiveness and all we have to do is accept His forgiveness and “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…â€

Indeed God offers us forgiveness always. God offers this unconditionally? No. We must repent and there is still restitution to be met. We gain forgiveness but do not evade responsibility for our transgressions. What religious followings are required by God? None. We may choose our spiritual paths as dictated by our hearts. We may have no religion at. Forgiveness is still held out for all. So where is the 2,000 year old debate between the world's three chief religions? Unresolved of course. But resolved or not the dead continue to be redeemed. This is quite true and always has been. Each of us must stay in our religions and become the best representative thereof. In this way the troubles between peoples will stop and the stage will be set for His return.

 

Blessings to all,

 

JamesYaqub

Do you agree with what Jesus said in Luke 7: 36-50 that “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…�

 

If a “gift†is given with conditions is it not at least partly paid for and not a gift?

 

How would you know that you have “paid†enough to keep the gift?

 

If you truly realize you have been forgiven of a huge debt will you not Love much and will that love not drive you to repentance?

 

To truly be “charity†does it not have to be given without expectation and if it is given with some expectation of results is the giver not paying for those results?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam

 

I accept your offer of parental friendship. Please get in touch

 

Salma23

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sister,

 

Your personal messenger is turned off but you may talk to me at jpncsimmons[at]earthlink(contact admin if its a beneficial link)

 

JamesYaqub

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mr. JY, So How does the Christianity or Christians view Prophet Muhammad [peace be upon him] and the religion of Islam??? and Why does the Christianity limit Allah/GOD to just LOVE, God/Allah is a lot more which is not talked about in Christianity?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mr. JY, So How does the Christianity or Christians view Prophet Muhammad [peace be upon him] and the religion of Islam??? and Why does the Christianity limit Allah/GOD to just LOVE, God/Allah is a lot more which is not talked about in Christianity?

I can give you a Christian’s perspective on these questions.

I think Mohammad was really trying to do good especially when he started out. He did unite a large group of Arabs that were continuously fighting among themselves. I think he had some dreams and visions that he believed were from God and these inspired him to want to turn the people around him to the one true God. I do not really see him “against†Jews and/or Christians, but pulled a lot of concepts from these religions. I think Mohammad miss understood the unexplainable relationship between God and Jesus, so somewhat dismissed it.

As far as the Christian’s emphasis on Love over all God’s other attributes this takes a lot of words to explain properly and the definition of Godly type Love is huge. To begin with Godly type Love includes:

Mercy/charity/grace/forgiveness/unselfishness. We agree that God’s Love is infinitely greater than a wonderful mother’s love for her innocent only child and we know that a wonderful mother would do anything to help her innocent only child, so her love becomes the overriding attribute in her relationship with her child and compels her to do everything she does. God’s Love is even great and controls all the other attributes of God.

Her is what I have said to other Muslims with their agreement with my logic:

We might be able to philosophically proof if there is an all knowing, all powerful, eternal God; He would have to be the ultimate in goodness or Love, but that is not our issue.

I think: we believe (in agreement) God is the most Loving being there can be along with 98 other recorded attributes and others not listed in the Quran. We might disagree on God being our Father, Shepherd and Servant, so let’s start with what we do agree on.

For God’s “Love†to far surpass all human’s Love (we can compare it to the greatest human loves we know), so it would have to be: selfless, not just emotion it would be a conscious decision (God chooses to Love in spite of other’s actions), unconditional, extended to those that are not deserving, sacrificial, always serving others over self, greater than any love a mother would have for her baby, controlling all other attributes of God, compelling God to do all that He does, and be the most power force in all universe since it would control even God and would be a fitting description of God.

If God is this all Loving being than that “Love†would compel Him to create beings that could Love like He Loves. The problem is it could not be preprogrammed (instinctive) into the being or that would be a robotic type of love and it cannot be forced on the being (Love or be tortured) for that would be unloving on God’s part for the individual and would not be “Love†in the individual. It has to be given and accepted as a free undeserving and unconditional gift, but humans do not like to accept “charity†especially if the Giver of the gift has to make a sacrifice to give.

The easiest way for humans to accept God’s charity (Love) is through accepting God’s forgiveness, since all mature adults have done things that hurt others (sin) and accumulate a burden from these transgressions (conscience [on their heart]). All mature adults seek relieve from this burden, with the only true relieve coming from their creator. They can at some point choose to trust (faith) in the existence of a loving (forgiving) creator and humble themselves enough to accept His forgiveness or they can go on not believe in such a loving creator and seek other options including false religions and/or believes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I too would be interested in hearing a Christian defend the idea that God's love is unconditional. I suspect the answers you receive will vary according among Christians.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×