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UmmSuleiman

Why Atheism Doesn't Make Sense

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Actually, as far as I can see it was the more intelligent 'thinkers' of the age who , logically reasoned that if there is a creation then there must be a creator. All of the other moral and legal stuff simply flowed from ideas of right and wrong which would be derived from what was self-evidently good or bad for the community (a bit early to use the word 'society' I think).

 

regards,

 

ron

 

 

Rare to see a religious person who realises that morality stems from our need to live as a social species, rather than divinely given to us. It's refreshing. :sl:

 

As for most religions not being "deliberate frauds", there are obviously some that intended to be fraudulent from the start - for example, Scientology.

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Rare to see a religious person who realises that morality stems from our need to live as a social species, rather than divinely given to us. It's refreshing. :sl:

 

As for most religions not being "deliberate frauds", there are obviously some that intended to be fraudulent from the start - for example, Scientology.

 

 

Well, I wouldn't say that I am a 'religious' person, in that I don't really like organised religion. I have only encountered Islam through my contact with the Dervishes - or Sufi's, including studying the works of Ibn el Arabi and Jallaludin Rumi. It's mainly a matter of perspective I think.

 

I wouldn't say that Scientology is a deliberate fraud, nor would I say that is a religion in the normal sense of the word. It is an organised structured system of seeing and living in the world.

 

thanks,

 

ron

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As i stated, they just didnt know any better, now we have science to explain what once was only explainable by using god logic.

 

Even the sun rising was credited to god at first, we ofc now know better.

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As i stated, they just didnt know any better, now we have science to explain what once was only explainable by using god logic.

 

Even the sun rising was credited to god at first, we ofc now know better.

 

 

My current interest is that there may be a 'local God' applicable to life on Earth and then a 'Universal God' from which the whole Universe or Universes emanate and/or are an expression of.

I'm not saying I 'know' that either or both or these scenarios are much more than observable interpretations of what we can experience/see.

The local version would equate to a power of nature, perhaps, an unstopable force causing life to appear and grow. It is our life breath.

So maybe you'd call me a Pagan.. or a Pagagnostic.

 

r

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As i stated, they just didnt know any better, now we have science to explain what once was only explainable by using god logic.

 

Even the sun rising was credited to god at first, we ofc now know better.

 

The only way a proper discussion of God can talke place is if there is agreement on what God is. Is it the conciousness of the universe, or an old man with a long beard sitting on clouds above? There are many, many cocepts of God. No one really knows what God is, but we are sure of one thing, there is an intelligence guiding all life. We exist.

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The only way a proper discussion of God can talke place is if there is agreement on what God is. Is it the conciousness of the universe, or an old man with a long beard sitting on clouds above? There are many, many cocepts of God. No one really knows what God is, but we are sure of one thing, there is an intelligence guiding all life. We exist.

 

 

Quite so. This is one of the reasons I found the work of Ibn el Arabi so interesting. He basically adopted a scientific approach towards understanding the One God mentioned in the Qur'an. In other words he had or developed an 'objective eye', which is one of the main pre-requisits of analysis and true vision.

One has to look at what 'the intelligence' might be, if indeed there is some intelligence 'guiding' ourselves and everything else. It may be nothing more than patterns and principles, which to our eyes incur 'development' and creation.

Understanding the guiding is what is essential to undertake. A storm can be said to be guided by an 'intelligence', but really it is simply 'guided' by natural laws. These, I think can indeed be said to represent an intelligence. Knowing yet unknowing.

No we're getting warmer perhaps.

 

ron

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everytime i hear a muslim say 'recently science discovered in the quran, etc', i get a headache.

 

you muslims are following an idea originally started by maurice bucaille in the 1970's. he was paid $$$ to do this, he started out the 'science in the quran' argument. he is, quite frankly, a charlatan.

 

anyways, there is no miraculous science in the quran. you muslims just pick a random verse that sounds vaguely like science and say 'oh, it must be a miracle, no one knew this 1400 years ago, so Allah must exist'. this is why Islam is a pathetic insult to the human mind. there is so much ignorance in this statement, it's why i need aspirin every time i hear it.

 

1. you're misinterpreting it and taking it out of context. when mohammed was making up the koran, he probably used the latest science known at his time as a metaphor for one of his ideeas. it's not meant to be interpreted as 'ohh no one knew this 1400 years ago, blah blah blah'

 

2. the 'science' in the quran is wrong. one example is (i forgot what verse) he mentions that semen comes from a man's kidneys, when we know today it comes from the testis, hence the argument is invalid. also he doesn't mentioned the women's egg, which is just as equally important as the semen. more is here youtube com watch?v=5jSq89TMflk

 

3. YES, SOMEONE DID KNOW ALL THIS STUFF 1400 YEARS AGO! you've got to be mentally disabled if you think humans didn't know a thing or two about science 1400 years ago, or you failed history HARD, or you're too lazy to google it. the greeks were the masters of science in their time, and you'd drop your jaw at how much they knew, and they lived hundreds of years before mohammed!

 

the only way science in the koran is miraculous is if saudi arabia landed on mars by next year. otherwise, get out.

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