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And your last post: You never explained to which cases weak hadeeths can be used. So.........

 

I didn't even read the rest you wrote. I said what is my purpose. Stop telling me to not follow the ulma blindly because you're opposing to Allah's statement to ask the people o knowledge. Believe it or not, senior shayks are the pople of knowledge.

 

Goodbye. I hate long discussions. I am a busypersom believe it or not and I have put out great efford for two years to learn Islam. I found my direction in deen, it is time to seek obligatory knowledge. My ahlaq is really bad when it comesto this and I amtrying to gain wisdom so please leave me alone before I really do freak out.

 

I apologize to you that I am biased againt Deobandi aqeedah.

Edited by Orthodox

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Wa Alaykum Salam

Quote me where I said anything about "Salafis."

 

It does'nt take a genius to work out you are referring to Salafi's please don't act devious again as you have already proven throughout your posts.

 

I said that the site is Deobandi and it is. Why? I am biasedagainst other aqeedas. And I will continue to advise others not to take their deen from those with fabricated aqeedas.

 

Prove to all of us in this forum by giving us evidance that all other Aqida's are fabricated. What absurd statements you are contuously making. Such claims are totally ludicrous and only someone like you could make such statements. You are really exposing yourself to everyone in here.

 

Again, I am not calling others names and judgeing them with falsehood. The site is Deobandi. I don't think this forum allows propagation of unreliable sites.

 

Your not? You have called every other Aqida fabricated and you have called sufi's and deobandi's deviants and all others who do not follow the path you follow and yet you say you have'nt called anyone names and have not judged anyone?

 

What makesyou believe I'lll folllow what you advise me with? Blind taqleed on the 30% previous cholars contradicted on and me taking this from scholars who studied it is learning Islam properly.

 

You don't make any sense here

 

Again, I wll continue to oppose to what Allah denied for Himself;Ashari and Maturidi aqeedah. I am without knowledge of aqeedah. So are others, is it fair for them to be taking their fundamentals without knowing what fundamentals they are aquiring?

 

 

 

Wait a minute you just wrote in a previous statement that ALL other Aqida's are fabricated and now you are saying you do not know anything about Aqida. Then how do you know they are fabricated? What is this? Why are you making yourself look foolish? Do you actually know anything about what you write about?

 

My deen and my life if between me and Allah. Are you calling me a hypocrite? Just becasue I claim my aqeedah to be the Qur'aan and the Sunna doesn't mean i am saying it to praise myself , or whatever you're accusing me of.

 

If i have called you a hypocrite then quote where i have said it.... You seem to get very emotional then not understand what you write. Always think before you write.

 

I am following scholars who took it directly from them. As I have said many time sin the past. Our scholars follow the 70% fiqh from the madhabs, the 30% they contradicted on, I do not pick and choose on, I follow scholars who studied it (Bin Baz, utaymeen etc...). Are you claiming they are not estabilished scholars?

 

So the scholars you follow are the only scholars that took it directly from Qur'an and Sunnah and NO other scholar takes directly from the Qur'an and Sunnah?

 

Again you are making an absurd statement on which you know nothing about. You are making another blind comment judging others as not upon Qur'an and Sunnah and implying that your path is the only right one. You have really exposed yourself for all to see.

 

Because Allah ordained me to do so. My obligation is to ask people of knowledge. This shaykh is a skilled one and no I am not following any shayk that comes across my way. I know what shaykh Ayman follows. And from who he took his knowledge from.

 

So those on the deviant path have they been ordained by Allah to be on a deviant path? Your Sheikh is skilled and others are'nt? Your sheikh knows all over others? How do you know the the knowledge your sheikh learnt was correct when you have no knowledge yourself? How can you differentiate between correct and incorrct knowledge and where correct and incorrect knowledge comes from when you know nothing of the Qur'an and Sunnah.

 

Are you implying that you fear Allah more than the ulma? Astakfirullah?!

 

Again you are making up words i have never said. You really need to control yourself and have restraint. Why accuse people of that which they never claimed. It is totally useless having any discussion with someone of your manner and approach.

 

Which one? I gave you evidence from students. You give me yours about the statment of weak hadeeths. That the whole ulma says it; prove it!

Please tell me what is it that I said that was "extremely offensive." I have apologized to you even though I believe to be in the right. Tell me, what was it I saic so I that I apologize.

 

Now your trying to imply that you have not made any offensive statements? Are you used to being offensive that you don't realise when you are being offensive? Go back and read your posts. Allah is most just and i will rely on him to give justice and bring recompanse on the day of jdugement inshallah

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salam

 

it is odd that those who make taqleed on scholars with very little knowledge of the deen, to then dismiss anyone else who follows something different. it is a contradiction as these people have no way of knowing someone else is deviant; they have no knowledge themselves. in this situation, it is obligatory to remain silent and not attack anyone to avoid saying something about the deen you have no right to say.

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it is odd that those who make taqleed on scholars with very little knowledge of the deen, to then dismiss anyone else who follows something different. it is a contradiction as these people have no way of knowing someone else is deviant; they have no knowledge themselves. in this situation, it is obligatory to remain silent and not attack anyone to avoid saying something about the deen you have no right to say.
You're contradicting yourself. If we are lay people, how do we not do blind tagleed? Allah says to ask the people of knowledge. That is simply what I am doing.

 

 

Hamza, I'm ignoring you since you're older than I am. Just because I have no knowledge to speak about aqeedag, doesn't mean that I don't know how they came into existnace.

Edited by Orthodox

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salam

 

it is odd that those who make taqleed on scholars with very little knowledge of the deen, to then dismiss anyone else who follows something different. it is a contradiction as these people have no way of knowing someone else is deviant; they have no knowledge themselves. in this situation, it is obligatory to remain silent and not attack anyone to avoid saying something about the deen you have no right to say.

 

Unfotunatley this is the sad state of affairs of some people in our ummah. Already the world is against us and we have those in our ummah wanting to cause further dissension and division. These people are usually those who have no knowledge but are quick to judge others and call others deviants and misled. Let us unite ourselves as one Ummah and come together rather than causing further rifts.

 

May Allah unite us and rid our ummah of those who want to cause dissension. Ameen

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We will never unite as along as what you follow contradicts the Qur'aan and the Sunna. Sucha= as: Where is Allah?

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You're contradicting yourself. If we are lay people, how do we not do blind tagleed.

Hamza, I'm ignoring you since you're older than I am. Just because I have no knowledge to speak about aqeedag, doesn't mean that I don't know how they came into existnace.

 

Then why do you attack those who not following the path you are? Why do you call all other Aqida's fabricated and your own Aqidah correct of you don't know the difference between what Aqida or correct and what is not?

 

If you have no knowledge and know nothing about Aqida then KEEP QUITE and do not judge others and call others as misled and deviants and do NOT call all other Aqida's as fabricated!

 

You have made some VERY dangerous remarks for which i suggest you repent for making!

 

Do NOT expose yourself further for i have already exposed all of your flawed arguments.

 

I will have NO more correspondance with people like you!

 

May Allah give us justice on Qiyamah! Ameen

Edited by hamza81

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If you have no knowledge and know nothing about Aqida then KEEP QUITE and do not judge others and call others as misled and deviants and do NOT call all other Aqida's as fabricated! You have made some VERY dangerous remarsk for which i suggest you repent for making!

 

I will continue to criticize Ashari and Maturdi aqeedah, they deviated themseles, I am not excluding anyone.

 

I am biased against it for the sake of Allah and His messanger. Takbeer.

 

Falsehood and truth, cannot combine. It is easy to say that I am excludung all those who don't follow what I do. I am not. Fundamentals are one. That I exclude the aqeedahs that are not as literall as ours is, doesn't mean that I exclude people. You can't say all religions are correct. All fundamentals cannot be correct. I choose the more literall fndametals since that is oviously Orthodox.

 

Then why do you attack those who not following the path you are?
Do you know how they came into existance? Tell us sinse youre with knowledge... Edited by Orthodox

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It is such a nice concept is'nt it saying follow Qur'an and Sunnah. But how easy is it in practise
I thought you called me a hypocrite. Why are you asking me if it is easy to put the Qur'aan and the Sunna in practice?

 

Your Sheikh is skilled and others are'nt? Your sheikh knows all over others?
This needs no respose......

 

Always think before you write.
The only person who is offending others here, is you.

 

Again you are making up words i have never said.
You were saying that I should doubt what people of knowledge tell me. According to the Qur'aan, the ulma fears Allah. I'll admit that I seek my answeres from more than my shaykh.

If it contradicts any fatwa from senior scholars, I tell hm and he explains.

I care less.

 

Goodbye. Apologies again. I do not exclude Sufis, Deobandis etc... I excluse their aqeeda (Ashari and Maturdi).

Edited by Orthodox

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You're contradicting yourself. If we are lay people, how do we not do blind tagleed? Allah says to ask the people of knowledge. That is simply what I am doing.

 

and that is what others do too. so here's the question, how do you know what you are following is correct and what others are following is deviant?

 

Hamza, I'm ignoring you since you're older than I am. Just because I have no knowledge to speak about aqeedag, doesn't mean that I don't know how they came into existnace.

 

if you have no knowledge about aqeeda then you should remain silent on the topic. how blase you are about your words. if you know nothing about medicine, would you try to critisise the precription of a doctor you don't follow? would you say 'i know nothing about medicine but i've heard so-and-so doctor is deviant so you shouldnt take his medicine'? you have no way of knowing so you should remain silent.

 

I will continue to criticize Ashari and Maturdi aqeedah, they deviated themseles

 

yet you don't know this because you know nothing about aqeeda! you are blind following what others have said. so just remain silent. you are free to choose to not follow ashari and maturidi but you have no right to critisise because you are completely ignorant of the topic. how can one be so arrogant and admit they have no knowledge but not hesitate to critisise the very thing they have no knowledge in. it is arrogance on another level!

 

I am biased against it for the sake of Allah and His messanger. Takbeer.

 

if you are biased it means you have no interest for the truth.

 

Falsehood and truth, cannot combine. It is easy to say that I am excludung all those who don't follow what I do. I am not. Fundamentals are one. That I exclude the aqeedahs that are not as literall as ours is, doesn't mean that I exclude people. You can't say all religions are correct. All fundamentals cannot be correct. I choose the more literall fndametals since that is oviously Orthodox.

 

how is it obviously orthodox? oh wait, you can't answer that because you have no knowledge of aqeeda. you blind follow others. thats fine, but have some humility before you claim others are deviant. you overeach yourself.

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and that is what others do too. so here's the question, how do you know what you are following is correct and what others are following is deviant?
I have made this clear many times. Our priority is aqeedah (fundamentals). The basics of Islam cannot contradicts so you can't have 3 corrects aqeedas. We follow a more literall form of aqeedah. It is logical that is Orthodox and Orthodox means original.

 

if you have no knowledge about aqeeda then you should remain silent on the topic. how blase you are about your words. if you know nothing about medicine, would you try to critisise the precription of a doctor you don't follow? would you say 'i know nothing about medicine but i've heard so-and-so doctor is deviant so you shouldnt take his medicine'? you have no way of knowing so you should remain silent.
Again, just because I can't explain to you how we believe in our aqeedah and its details doesn't mean I don't know how other aqeedas came into existance. What happened after the death of the four imams? They agreed on their ageedah and manhaj. They only disagreed on 30% of fiqh. They all agreed on the basics. It is not permitted to disagree on that.

 

The Four Imaams

 

1. Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (rh) was asked, ‘Allah is above the seventh heaven, above His Throne, distinct from his creation, and His Power and Knowledge are in every place?’ And he replied, ‘Yes, above the Throne and His Knowledge is in every place’ (‘Sharh Usul I'tiqaad Ahlus Sunnah’ of al-Laalikaaee (d.414AH)).

 

2. Imaam Maalik (rh) said, “Allah is Above the heaven, and His knowledge is in every place, nothing is hidden from Him.†(‘Sharh Usul I'tiqaad Ahlus Sunnah’ of al-Laalikaaee (d.414AH)).

 

3. Abu Haneefah (rh) said, when asked of his opinion of the one who says, ‘I do not know whether Allah is above the heavens or on the earth.’ - “He has disbelieved, because Allah says, “The Most Merciful rose above the Throne,†and His Throne is above His seven heavens.’ He was then asked , ‘what if he said that Allah is above His Throne but he does not know whether the Throne is in the heavens or on the earth?’ He said, ‘He has disbelieved, because He has denied that He is above the heavens, And whosoever denied that He is above the heavens has disbelieved.†(‘Sharh Usul I'tiqaad Ahlus Sunnah’ of al-Laalikaaee (d.414AH), ‘al-Uluww’ of adh- Dhahabee, also ‘Sharh Aqueedah at-Tahaawiyyah’ of ibn Abee al-Izz al-Hanafee).

 

4. Abu Haneefah said, "And Allah the Exalted is called upon upwards, and not downwards, because downwards is not a quality of Ruboobiyyah (Lordship) and Uloohiy yah (Divinity) in anything†(al-Fiqh ul-Asbat).

 

5. A woman asked Abu Haneefah, “Where is your Lord whom you worship†So he said, “Verily Allah the Exalted is above the sky (fis-samaa`), not in the earth.†So a man said to him, `Have you seen the statement of Allah the Exalted, “And He is with you.†(57:4) He said, “He is as you are when you write to a man, `Verily I am with you,' whilst you are absent from him†(al-Asmaa was-Sifaat).

 

6. And Aboo Nu'aym relates from Ja'far Ibn 'Abdullaah who said, `We were with Maalik Ibn Anas, so a man came, so he said, “O Abaa 'Abdullaah, “The Most Merciful has ascended above His Throne,†(20:5) How has He ascended?' So anger came over Maalik, such that no affair like this had ever caused to come over him. So he looked towards the earth and scratched with his cane in his hand, until he raised his hand and wiped the sweat from his forehead, tossed the cane aside, and said, 'The modality (kayf of it cannot be comprehended by the intellect, and al-istiwaa' (ascent) is not unknown, and having faith in it is obligatory, and the question concerning it is an innovation. And I think that you are a person of innovation,' and he commanded him to leave.†Ibn Hajar said in Fathul Baaree (commentary of Sahih al-Bukhari) (13/406- 407) that its isnaad (chain of narrators) is hasan (good). And it was authenticated by adh-Dhahabee in al-Uluww (p. 103).

 

Many people are confused by the fact that there are 4 madhhaahib or ‘schools of thought.’ However, these schools have differences in issues of fiqh only. For example, one school of thought may hold that you should go into sujood with your knees first, and another says the hands are first. One school of thought may hold that a woman may enter the masjid during her menses, and another may say no.

 

Unfortunately, many people think that the 4 ‘schools of thought’ also hold differences in aqeedah. For example, the issue of where Allah is, punishment in the grave, all issues of the ghayb (unseen), and so forth. The 4 imams all had the same aqeedah. There is no room for differences in this regard. In fact, most of the time there are documented instances of the Prophet (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã) becoming angry, they are due to people delving into incorrect concepts of aqeedah. This can be clearly seen when some of the people asked for a tree to seek blessings from (Dhaat Anwaat) or when a man once said to him, “What Allah and you will,†so the Prophet (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã) rebuked him by saying, “have you made me a partner unto Allah?!â€

 

To take this a point further, even if they differed in aqeedah, then we must search for the truth in this issue by referring to the Qur’an and Sunnah, and the proofs for this are mentioned throughout this paper.

 

But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission. (4:65)

 

 

how is it obviously orthodox? oh wait, you can't answer that because you have no knowledge of aqeeda.
During the time of the 3 generations, Ahari and Maturidi aqeedah didn't exist. And that what is literall is obviously Orthodox;original.

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=731385&hl="]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=731385&hl=[/url]

 

Mnay times in the past I have said that just because the imams disagreed in fiqh (30%) doesn't mean that they disagreed on the basics. I fyou say they have, blow the fact that Islam is a divine religion.

read this:

Edited by Orthodox

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:sl:

 

Well, many people take their deen from internet. Many people take clasess at the sites not knowing they are taking their deen from Asharism.

 

I dare you to start a thread on that forum asking does Allah exist? "That is like asking if love exists." Hint, hint. To them, Allah is like a feeling. Some are more misguided then others. Let's not even speak about threads: "Where is Allah ?"

 

 

All our brothers and sisters who are reding this need to know is that the Salaf refuted these deviants, the first three generations refuted the Jahmiya. The mutazilah were refuted and when the Ashari's came they were also refuted heavily. Asharism came from Mutazilah and they came from the Jahmiyah. Abul Hsam (ashar)i died around the mid 9th century and it was after that the codification of the Ashari school of thought took place.

 

A look into the life of Ahmed Bin Hanbal shows how they viewed the Mutazilah, deviants of the highest order. Imam Laalikaes says in shar usool:

 

And also from al-Laalikaa'ee's "Sharh Usool il-I'tiqaad" (tahqeeq Ahmad Hamdaan), 2/214, no. 351:

 

From Ibraaheem bin Haani' who said: I heard Ahmad bin Hanbal - and he was concealed with me (hiding from the people) - so I asked him about the Qur'an and he said: "Whoever claimed that Allaah's Names are created is a kaafir (disbeliever)".

 

This is how these deviants were refuted. Don't give me that "unification of umma" when what I care about is brothers and sisters taking their Islam from the correct Muslims.

 

 

"They are a small group of people among a large evil population. Those who oppose them are more than those who follow them." [Reported by ibn Asaakir. It is authentic according to al-Albani.]

 

 

"Islam began as something strange, and it shall return to being something strange, so give glad tidings to the strangers." It was asked, "Who are those strangers, O Messenger of Allah?" He replied, "Those that correct the people when they become corrupt." [Reported by Abu Amr al-Dani, from the hadith of ibn Masoud.

It is authentic according to al-Albani. Another narration says, "Those that correct my sunnah which has been corrupted by the people after me."

 

Al-Hasan Al-Basree (rahimahullaah) used to say to his companions: “Oh Ahl-us-Sunnah! Be gentle with one another and may Allaah have mercy on you. For indeed, you are from amongst the fewest of people.â€

 

Yoonus Ibn ‘Ubayd (rahimahullaah) said: “There is not a thing more stranger than the Sunnah. And what is more stranger than it, is the one who knows it.â€

 

Sufyaan Ath-Thawree (rahimahullaah) said: “Treat the Ahl-us-Sunnah kindly, for verily, they are strangers.â€

 

 

I know I am not with knowledge. Look at how these imams faught against innovators and those who want the truth mixed with falsehood, and you want me to sit here and not oppose to their propagation of lies.

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetasharis(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/creed/"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetasharis(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/creed/[/url]

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The title may sound funny but the argument behind it buries the blind muqalidoon and Ash'aris/Maturidis in a deep grave. This argument was initially put forward by our good brother Harris (on IA) to point out inconsistency in deobandis' aqeedah and manhaj.

 

I've to say without any exaggeration that it is the best argument (in my opinion) to deal with the heretics (those who oblige complete taqleed of a fiqhi madhab and Ash'arism/Matruridism on lay people) because it leads them to choose one of the two: 1) either fiqhi madhab or 2) aqeedah madhab. Let's read what brother Harris has to say:

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Harris Hammam

DEOBANDI INTERNAL INCONSISTENCY #15 - THE DUMB HANBALI BUTCHER SCENARIO

 

Imam Ahmed said: He should point to the sky [before slaughter as a substitute to Tasmiyah]. (Masaa'il al-Imam Ahmed Wa Ishaq bin Rahuyah Riwaayat Ishaq bin Mansur al-Marwazi)

 

Ibn Qudaamah said: ... to show that he intends to slaughter in the Name of He who is in the heaven... (Al-Mughni)

 

This is just one fiqhi issue, but it has two aspects related to it that are crucially fundamental in Deobandism which they need to see for themselves, becaus ethey are at a direct collision with each other:

 

1) As Mathabistic Taqleed would suggest, the Deo must advise him to point to the sky before slaughter to legalise the meat according to the Hanbali school of law

 

2) But as Maturidism would suggest, the very same Deo must advise him not to point to the sky before slaughter, as doing so is tantamount to Tajseem and therefore Kufr

 

The Hanaabilah who devised this mas'alah had only one thing in mind - that by pointing, it is meant Allah being up above in the heaven is meant, as Ibn Qudaamah said in al-Mughni. This is the Tafseer of the Hanaabilah of their own Hanbali Fiqh. Besides, they are more aware of Hanbalism just like Hanafis are more aware of Hanafism. So ever says anything else in the Tafseer of this mas'alah should keep it to himself.

 

The point is: should the Deo sacrifice his Mathabistic Taqleed and advise the dumb butcher not to point? Or should he sacrifice his Maturidism and advise the dumb butcher to point?

 

Ash'aris/Maturids say that we make tajseem when we say Allah Ta'ala is above the heavens; hence, by their understanding the hanabli scholars are endorsing kufr in their fiqh and the dumb hanabli buthcers are following kufr.

 

Jazak Allah khayr brother Harris for your inputyou can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetahlalhdeeth(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/vbe/showthread.php?t=4762

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I have made this clear many times. Our priority is aqeedah (fundamentals). The basics of Islam cannot contradicts so you can't have 3 corrects aqeedas. We follow a more literall form of aqeedah. It is logical that is Orthodox and Orthodox means original.

 

it is logical that is orthodox and orthodox means original? do you even bother to read what you're writing before you click the 'add reply' button?

 

Again, just because I can't explain to you how we believe in our aqeedah and its details doesn't mean I don't know how other aqeedas came into existance.

yes it does. you are ignorant of the topic. therefore you should abandon your arrogance and admit you don't know and stop acting as if you have the knowledge to declare others innovators.

 

What happened after the death of the four imams? They agreed on their ageedah and manhaj. They only disagreed on 30% of fiqh. They all agreed on the basics. It is not permitted to disagree on that.

 

your ignorance of arabic has been revealed by your use of the word manhaj. how could they have agreed on their manhaj?

 

To take this a point further, even if they differed in aqeedah, then we must search for the truth in this issue by referring to the Qur’an and Sunnah, and the proofs for this are mentioned throughout this paper.

 

even if they differed in aqeeda, you are ignorant of the topics they spoke of and thus should remain silent. you are in no position to declare anyone deviant.

 

During the time of the 3 generations, Ahari and Maturidi aqeedah didn't exist. And that what is literall is obviously Orthodox;original.

how do you know your aqeeda is the one followed by the first three generations? you don't. you are blind following someone else and then declaring everyone else as deviants.

 

Mnay times in the past I have said that just because the imams disagreed in fiqh (30%) doesn't mean that they disagreed on the basics. I fyou say they have, blow the fact that Islam is a divine religion.

 

and many times it has been said to you that you don't know what you're talking about. you've clearly done no in-depth reading on anything about aqeeda, its developments and where the possibilities of differences can occur. and that's fine, except your arrogance in your own abilities leads to you declaring others deviant. you simply don't have the knowledge to do that. just stick to blindly following your websites and refrain from trying to guide others until you've learnt more about the spectrum of scholarship in Islam.

 

Well, many people take their deen from internet. Many people take clasess at the sites not knowing they are taking their deen from Asharism.

 

so?

 

All our brothers and sisters who are reding this need to know is that the Salaf refuted these deviants, the first three generations refuted the Jahmiya. The mutazilah were refuted and when the Ashari's came they were also refuted heavily. Asharism came from Mutazilah and they came from the Jahmiyah. Abul Hsam (ashar)i died around the mid 9th century and it was after that the codification of the Ashari school of thought took place.

 

hang on a minute. did you just write this to try and demonstrate that you have some knowledge in this topic? you are a blind follower. you've admitted as much and it is evident in all your posts. so what you've just written is not from serious study, it is a simple repetition of what you've been told by others. and it is arrogant to behave as if you know what you're talking about. you talk about asharism as if you have knowledge. ignoring the fact that many of the ulema were asharis. this should be enough for you to stop trying to do something you're not qualified to do.

 

I know I am not with knowledge. Look at how these imams faught against innovators and those who want the truth mixed with falsehood, and you want me to sit here and not oppose to their propagation of lies.

you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetasharis(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/creed/

 

you don't know they are lies because you have no knowledge! what has inflicted your mental capacity that you don't see the contradiction of what you are doing? how can you claim someone else is lying about something that you know nothing about. how can a muslim be this arrogant? you must have a very high opinion of yourself. and it is so not surprising that the website you've posted is not authored by asharis, it is authored by the people you blindly follow.

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ah.....

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:sl:

 

I know from experience that these types of threads usually don't lead anywhere. I wonder whether it's worth having these discussions.

 

perhaps you don't think it's worth responding to a clearly arrogant layman declaring other muslims to be deviants, but i do. i take exception to someone who knows nothing about a topic who then dismisses everyone else as wrong. people who read this should have the opportunity to see such arrogance and ignorance exposed.

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May Allah grant you jennah sister.

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Salam,

 

How great and grave crime is the creation of any sectarianism in Islam can be judged from the incidence Allah has stated in Sura Taha. Hazrat Moses goes out for a few days and leaves Bani israel under the surveillance of Aaron. When he (Moses) comes back, he notices that his followers have indulged in the worship of a cow. Whatever impact of this incidence could be on the temperament of Hazrat Moses is clear. He becomes upset, furious, and enraged. And asks his brother: (20: 92) “(O Aaron) when you saw: "they are going astray", what kept you back that you did not forbid them (from this way)." Now listen to what Aaron responded to. But it must be remembered that Hazrat Aaron was also the Messenger of Allah. In response to it, he says: (20: 94) “Truly I feared that thou should say: “You have caused a division among the children of israel and you did not wait for my wordâ€. Note as to what was there behind this matter? Hazrat Aaron said, "These people had started worshipping cow for some time on account of their ignorance; to me it was not such a great crime as was to create division and discord amongst them". This answer is being given by a Nabi, and the second Nabi, on this answer, gets satisfied. It is evident that cow-worship was also anathema (Shirk) and the factionalism was equally too. But the anathema of sectarianism was such a heinous and dangerous crime that in order to get saved from it, the anathema of cow-worship could temporarily be assimilated. Hence the Quran stands witness to it that Tauba put away the crime of cow-worship: (2: 54) But when they created divisions amongst themselves and thereby got divided into different sects and factions (7:168) they were trapped in the chastisement of destruction and devastation, disgrace and abjectness, deprivation and indigence, which remained them chasing every time like their own shadow: (3: 111). This is the condition of the present day Muslims.

 

“Tell them that God’s power has overall power to bring upon you calamities from above or from under your feet, or to cover you with confusion with party strife, giving you a taste of mutual vengeance each from the other. See how we bring the truths and facts before you repeatedly, so that you may think and contemplateâ€. - (6:65)

 

Wassalam

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May Allah grant you jennah sister.

 

and may Allah remove the arrogance from your heart and the low opinion you have of the majority of muslims in this world.

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Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, i think you have misunderstood these type of hadith when they refer to the forgiveness of sin. Firstly when it refers to forgiveness of sins then it is ONLY referring to the forgiveness of minor sins and not major sins. Major sins can ONLY be forgiven by sincere repentance with the intention NEVER to repeat the act. I can only quote you similar hadith from Bukhari and Muslim of you like?

 

Wassalam,

 

You are guessing when you say forgiveness of 'minor sins'. You have to back up with evidence. The hadith is self explanatory, and there is no need for any guess work. Again I quote the hadith;

 

"On the Day of Resurrection, my Ummah (nation) will be gathered into three groups, one sort will enter Paradise without rendering an account (of their deeds). Another sort will be reckoned on easy account and admitted into Paradise. Yet another sort will come bearing on their backs heaps of sins like great mountains. Allah will ask the angels though He knows best about them: Who are these people? They will reply: They are humble slaves of yours. He will say: Unload the sins from them and put the same over the Jews and Christians; then let the humble slaves get into Paradise by virtue of My Mercy."

 

Do you guess the third catorogy of Muslims that is reffered in the above hadith are people who have done minor sins? If yes, where is the fourth catogory of people who do major sins. Please note in the hadith, the third category of people are referred as "people bearing on their backs heaps of sins like great mountains". And according to you, it is minor sins!!! There is no logic in your arguement. Even assuming that the hadith refers to those who have done minor sins, wherein in the above hadith mentions category of Muslims going to hell/ or heaven by doing major sins? You do not seem to be as convincing as your reply for Orthodox.

 

Assalamu alaikum

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Again, it is not Sufis, Deobandis ....or any other Muslims I am judging. I am against their fundamentals and I will do my best to learn and learn against their "Islam."

 

Hamza, I didn't read your message and you are blocked too. Don't ever speak to me again and I'll ignore it anyways.

 

If you only knew how much I hate these aqeedas and hopw heavily they are refuted today and by the Salaf.

 

Now leave me and my Islam between me and Allah, the free of all imperfections.

Edited by Orthodox

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Wassalam,

 

You are guessing when you say forgiveness of 'minor sins'. You have to back up with evidence. The hadith is self explanatory, and there is no need for any guess work. Again I quote the hadith;

 

"On the Day of Resurrection, my Ummah (nation) will be gathered into three groups, one sort will enter Paradise without rendering an account (of their deeds). Another sort will be reckoned on easy account and admitted into Paradise. Yet another sort will come bearing on their backs heaps of sins like great mountains. Allah will ask the angels though He knows best about them: Who are these people? They will reply: They are humble slaves of yours. He will say: Unload the sins from them and put the same over the Jews and Christians; then let the humble slaves get into Paradise by virtue of My Mercy."

 

Do you guess the third catorogy of Muslims that is reffered in the above hadith are people who have done minor sins? If yes, where is the fourth catogory of people who do major sins. Please note in the hadith, the third category of people are referred as "people bearing on their backs heaps of sins like great mountains". And according to you, it is minor sins!!! There is no logic in your arguement. Even assuming that the hadith refers to those who have done minor sins, wherein in the above hadith mentions category of Muslims going to hell/ or heaven by doing major sins? You do not seem to be as convincing as your reply for Orthodox.

 

Assalamu alaikum

 

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, Brother i still don't think you quite understand. There are many hadith which refer to one doing a certain virteous act which results in the forgiveness of a certain amount of sins. But these hadith ONLY refer to the forgiveness of minor sins because major sins can ONLY be forgiven through sincere repentance with the intention NEVER to repeat the act and also to feel remorse over it. Let me give you an example:

 

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “For fasting the day of ‘Aashooraa’, I hope that Allaah will accept it as expiation for the year that went before.” (Reported by Muslim, 1976).

 

This is from the bounty of Allaah towards us: for fasting one day He gives us expiation for the sins of a whole year. And Allaah is the Owner of Great Bounty.

 

Now does that mean we fast on the day of Ashura that all our minor and major sins are forgiven for the previous year? According to Imaam al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

 

“It expiates for all minor sins, i.e., it brings forgiveness of all sins except major sins.”

 

Then he said (may Allaah have mercy on him):

 

“Fasting the day of ‘Arafaah expiates for two years, and the day of ‘Aashooraa’ expiates for one year. If when a person says ‘Aameen’ it coincides with the ‘Aameen’ of the angels, he will be forgiven all his previous sins… Each one of the things that we have mentioned will bring expiation. If there are minor sins for which expiation is needed, expiation for them will be accepted; if there are no minor sins or major sins, good deeds will be added to his account and he will be raised in status… If he had committed major sins but no minor sins, we hope that his major sins will be reduced.” (al-Majmoo’ Sharh al-Muhadhdhab, part 6, Sawm Yawm ‘Arafaah).

 

Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “Tahaarah, salaah, and fasting in Ramadaan, on the day of ‘Arafaah and on ‘Aashooraa’ expiate for minor sins only.” (al-Fataawa al-Kubra, part 5).

 

The same applies to the following example from Sahih Bukhari:

 

Saying Subhaan Allaah wa bi hamdih (Praise and glory be to Allaah) one hundred times.

 

It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever says Subhaan Allaah wa bi hamdih (Praise and glory be to Allaah) one hundred times, morning and evening, his sins will be erased even if they are like the foam of the sea.”

 

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6042; Muslim, 2691.

 

The sins erased can only be minor sins as major ones cannot be erased unless one repents sincerely with regret and intention never to repeat the act again. This also applies to similar hadith which refer to the forgiveness of sins.

 

 

and Allah knows best in all matters

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and may Allah remove the arrogance from your heart and the low opinion you have of the majority of muslims in this world.

 

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb,

 

Allahumman Ameen. My sister it is best to ignore such a people. Orthodox was also banned twice from Islamic board forum for her terrible behaviour and the fact that she attacked so many people. She used to attack non Muslims who came on to ask questions and needed proper dawah. She also sought advice as to how to give proper dawah and when advice was given to her she ignored it. I also advised her on the forum to change her behaviour and she accepted the fact that she needed to and also said she would but she continued to behave in an innappropriate manner and consequently got banned for her terrible conduct and behaviour.

 

This arrogant behaviour does not befit a Muslim and is not in accordance with how Rasulallah (Pbuh) told us to conduct ourselves. The worst thing is she actually thinks the way she behaves is right and that she is doing good for surely this is the deception of shaythan.

 

She actually thinks she knows what she is talking about when in actual fact she blindly copy and pastes that which she does not even understand as i and yourself have exposed her clearly for all to see. Anyone can see reading her posts that she is not an ambassedor of Islam but she is actually a very bad example for our deen as was proven by her terrible behaviour in Islamic Board forums which resulted in her getting banned and the same here.

 

She is clearly misguided and confused and needs to change her terrible conduct and behaviour otherwise she will continue pushing Non Muslims away from Islam and continue offending Muslims and causing rifts and divisions in the Ummah. Such terrible behaviour must be stopped and such members should not be allowed to continue in our forums if they persist in acting in an innappropriate manner.

Edited by hamza81

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Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, Brother i still don't think you quite understand. There are many hadith which refer to one doing a certain virteous act which results in the forgiveness of a certain amount of sins. But these hadith ONLY refer to the forgiveness of minor sins because major sins can ONLY be forgiven through sincere repentance with the intention NEVER to repeat the act and also to feel remorse over it. Let me give you an example:

 

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “For fasting the day of ‘Aashooraa’, I hope that Allaah will accept it as expiation for the year that went before.†(Reported by Muslim, 1976).

 

This is from the bounty of Allaah towards us: for fasting one day He gives us expiation for the sins of a whole year. And Allaah is the Owner of Great Bounty.

 

Now does that mean we fast on the day of Ashura that all our minor and major sins are forgiven for the previous year? According to Imaam al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

 

“It expiates for all minor sins, i.e., it brings forgiveness of all sins except major sins.â€

 

Then he said (may Allaah have mercy on him):

 

“Fasting the day of ‘Arafaah expiates for two years, and the day of ‘Aashooraa’ expiates for one year. If when a person says ‘Aameen’ it coincides with the ‘Aameen’ of the angels, he will be forgiven all his previous sins… Each one of the things that we have mentioned will bring expiation. If there are minor sins for which expiation is needed, expiation for them will be accepted; if there are no minor sins or major sins, good deeds will be added to his account and he will be raised in status… If he had committed major sins but no minor sins, we hope that his major sins will be reduced.†(al-Majmoo’ Sharh al-Muhadhdhab, part 6, Sawm Yawm ‘Arafaah).

 

Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “Tahaarah, salaah, and fasting in Ramadaan, on the day of ‘Arafaah and on ‘Aashooraa’ expiate for minor sins only.†(al-Fataawa al-Kubra, part 5).

 

The same applies to the following example from Sahih Bukhari:

 

Saying Subhaan Allaah wa bi hamdih (Praise and glory be to Allaah) one hundred times.

 

It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever says Subhaan Allaah wa bi hamdih (Praise and glory be to Allaah) one hundred times, morning and evening, his sins will be erased even if they are like the foam of the sea.â€

 

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6042; Muslim, 2691.

 

The sins erased can only be minor sins as major ones cannot be erased unless one repents sincerely with regret and intention never to repeat the act again. This also applies to similar hadith which refer to the forgiveness of sins.

and Allah knows best in all matters

 

Salam,

 

One can argue "sins like foam of a sea", "heaps of sins like great mountains" are just minor sins. But still you are not answering the point. The prophet says Muslim Ummah will be divided into three groups. The last group is the one who comes with heaps of sins like great mountains and Allah by virtue of His mercy will forgive their sins and enter them into heaven. My questions is; where is the group of Muslims who do major sins? Do you have a case that they already in Hell before categorising the Muslims into three groups?

 

Wassalam

 

 

Wassalam

 

 

You are bringing up many hadiths are trying to

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