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Aussie

Sunnipath's Question Time

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Alhumdullilah the first Sunnipath Q and A session has been recorded and uploaded on the web.

 

Questions answered were on the following topics:

  • Adoption
  • Abusive father-in-law
  • Hijab and its proofs
  • Conditions of being a Mufti
  • Waking children for the Fajr prayer
  • Disciplining children

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetsunnipath(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/questiontime/recordings/20100404163000_questiontime.html?utm_source=blog&utm_medium=blogl&utm_campaign=100415-QuestionTime"]Click here to view the recording[/url]

 

The next Q and A session is on the 18th of April. To submit a question (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_blog.sunnipath(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/2010/04/15/dont-miss-question-time-this-sunday/"]click here.[/url]

Edited by Aussie

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Just to clarify this is (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetsunnipath(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/about/nuhalisalman.aspx"]Shaykh Nuh Ali Salman[/url]. Unfortunately I cant change the title.

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How is he different ot Nuh Keller?

 

By: Abu Rumaysah

 

Below are a list of some of the errors [insha’allaah] that Keller fell into in his attacks against the Salafee madhhab. These are taken from one of his talks and some of his articles written in Q-News. I have not gone in great detail in most of the issues as I feel their error is clear for any sincere Muslim who considers the quotes and claims carefully. Some of the issues that required some depth have been dealt with in separate articles.

 

1. Talking about taking Allaahs Attributes Literally (alaa dhaahirihaa or alaa haqeeqatiha) he says, “but in tenants of faith and particularly in interpreting the relation of the mustashaabihaat to the Attributes of Allaah, literalism has never been accepted as an Islamic School of thought neither among the salaf - early Muslims - nor those who came later†[Literalism and Allaahs Attributes]. The fallacy of this claim is dealt in a separate article, “the madhab of Ahlus Sunnah and Ta’weelâ€

 

2. His claim that taking Allaahs Attributes literally is anthropomorphism [ibid], thus betraying his total lack of comprehension of the intended meaning behind these words when the early scholars used these terms. This is also dealt with on the same leaflet as mentioned above.

 

3. His statement “As for ibn Hazm, traditional scholars have not accepted his claims to be a mujtahid†[ibid] If he means by ‘traditional scholars’ the contemporary so-called Ash’arees then maybe he is telling the truth. As for the true traditional scholars, then they have accepted his capability of making fatawaa.

 

4. His claim that most of the Salafee Scholars are merely trained in hadeeth alone. [ibid]

 

5. His claim that “Kitaab as-Sunnah†of Imaam Abdullaah bin Ahmad is forged due to it’s containing two unknown narrators in it’s chain of narration, and that it’s editor al-Qahtaanee tries to sweep this fact under the rug by saying that ibn Taymiyyah and ibn al-Qayyim authenticated the attribution to the author. [ibid]. Suffice it to say that the authenticity of the sanad is not the only thing that can be used to attribute a book to it’s author rather there are other conditions that can be met, and due to these being fulfilled the researching scholars firmly attributed the book to it’s author, such as those that Qahtaanee mentioned: not only ibn Taymiyyah and ibn al-Qayyim as Keller incorrectly claims, but ibn al-Jawzee, al-Bayhaqee, al-Laalikaa’ee and others.

 

6. As for the rest of his argument against ‘as-Sunnah’ [ibid] then it is empty words, for he has not given any new information, the fact that it contains fabrications is known, and they have been pointed out by the various scholars who have done tahqeeq to it. To reject a book because it contains fabrications is unjust as any person will understand.

 

7. Following on from (5) his then going on to quote from ‘as-Sunnah’ of al-Khallaal a narration going to Imaam Ahmad that he apparently made tafweed of the meanings of the Attributes of Allaah. [ibid]. But this book has more than two unknown narrators in it’s chain. So why the discrepancy? Why reject one book for a specific deficiency, but accept another book with that same deficiency? The answer is that justice is rare to find! In the case of the first book it contains [in it’s authentic narrations] things which contradict the innovations of the Ash’arees, so they try to find something to discredit it. In the second case, the book contains one narration [out of many that contradict the Ash’aree stances] that agrees with them, so they in turn sweep under the rug the deficiencies [in their eyes] of the book! Suffice it say, in case anyone is now in doubt of the authenticity of this books ascription, that in the same way that the researching scholars firmly attributed ‘as-Sunnah’ to Imaam Abdullaah, they firmly attributed ‘as- Sunnah’ to al-Khallaal.

 

8. His criticism that ibn al-Qayyim believes that Allaah has Two eyes, and the fact that he derived this from the hadeeth, “and your Lord is not one-eyed†[ibid] what would he say, now to the same argument being presented in the works of the very Imaam he claims to follow, Abul Hasan al-Ash’aree and other Imaams?!

 

9. His examples in which he tries to show that ta’weel was delved into by the salaf [ibid] this is dealt with in the same article as mentioned above and in the article on the biography of ibn Taymiyyah.

 

10. His claim that Abul Hasan al-Ash’aree performed ta’weel and did tafweed of the meanings of the Attributes [ibid]. To see the fallacy of this just read the work ‘al-Ibaanah’ of the Imaam!

 

11. His claims that Salafees are anthropomorphists!

 

12. His claim that Salafees try to reduce ‘gatherings of dhikr’ to ‘education gatherings alone’ [Q-News. “Do the practice of the whirling dervishes fall within orthodox Islaam?â€] This is not the case, rather they allow dhikr but not in the manner performed by the Sufis, rather as taught by the sunnah.

 

13. His claim that the hadeeth ‘shirk is more hidden in my Ummah than the creeping of ants across a great smooth stone…†was used by the ‘Wahhaabees’ to prove that “the majority of Muslims may not be Muslims at all, but rather mushrikun or polythiests, and those that do not subscribe to the view of their Shaykhs may be beyond the pale of Islaam.†[Q-News, “would you advise individuals to study hadith from Bukhari and Muslim on their own?â€] Subhaanallaah this is a grievous lie! The salafee scholars have explained this hadeeth in it’s true understanding, that this refers to minor shirk and warns of the danger of shirk in general. For if the Messenger feared for his nation minor shirk, than what of major shirk? [see ‘fath al-Majeed’, the commentary to ‘Kitaab at- Tawheed’ of ibn Abdul Wahhab for example.] Kellers accusation that those that ‘do not subscribe to the views of their Shaykhs may be beyond the pale of Islaam’ is pure sectarianism and bigotry that is blind to the truth.

 

This is a glimpse of how this person has quoted erroneous facts, made up arguments that the Salafees are supposed to have used and then refuted them in an attempt to show the ‘weakness’ of the Salafee stances. For a great deal of more detail see the forthcoming refutation of him by Shaykh Dr. Saleh as-Saleh.

 

And Allaah the Most High knows best, and it is He Alone Who guides to attaining the truth.

 

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EDIT:

 

 

 

"If you have nothing nice to say , don't say it at all."

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetcalgaryislam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/imembers/pdf/bidah/B25.pdf"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetcalgaryislam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/imembers/pdf/bidah/B25.pdf[/url]

Edited by Orthodox

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How is he different ot Nuh Keller?

 

he has different parents, hence the different surnames. he has different teachers to nuh kellar. he looks different to nuh kellar. in fact, as far as i can tell, he is a different person altogether. gosh, i wonder why they have the same first name? their innovating sufi parents must have done that deliberately to confuse us.

 

By: Abu Rumaysah

 

do you even understand anything that is being refuted in this response? i imagine not. you should therefore stop spreading bile about other muslims.

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do you even understand anything that is being refuted in this response?

 

They were disturbing indeed.

 

he has different parents, hence the different surnames. he has different teachers to nuh kellar. he looks different to nuh kellar. in fact, as far as i can tell, he is a different person altogether. gosh, i wonder why they have the same first name? their innovating sufi parents must have done that deliberately to confuse us.
My question was very clear and upfront. Can you answer in a same way?

 

And by the way, the second link is from SALEH AS SALEH.

Edited by Orthodox

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They were disturbing indeed.

 

does that mean yes? yes you understood everything that was being said in that article and have verified its content in an objective manner through cross-referencing and research? you've studied aqida, sufism, salafism, to an adequate level to be able to agree with your cut&paste jobs to a reasonable degree?

 

My question was very clear and upfront. Can you answer in a same way?

 

your question was stupid. you decided that because the sheikh's name is nuh and he contributes to sunnipath a comparison was necessary with another person who's name is also nuh and contributes to sunnipath.

 

the point which i made, which clearly went over your head, is that since you don't know what you're talking about, refrain from speaking ill about muslims who have a different opinion to you.

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Bismillah:In the name of Allah:

 

does that mean yes? yes you understood everything that was being said in that article and have verified its content in an objective manner through cross-referencing and research? you've studied aqida, sufism, salafism, to an adequate level to be able to agree with your cut&paste jobs to a reasonable degree?
There is no need to know that to know what shirk is. I understood the article.

 

SunniPath(contact admin if its a beneficial link) meanwhile says about seeking divine help from other than Allah:

There is nothing wrong in seeking their help.

 

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_qa.sunnipath(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=1925&"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_qa.sunnipath(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=1925&[/url]

Sunnipath(contact admin if its a beneficial link) explicitly says that it is permissible to say “Ya Ali Madad (O Ali help

me!): (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_qa.sunnipath(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=3752&CATE=24"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_qa.sunnipath(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/issue_view.asp?HD=...752&CATE=24[/url]

Imam Suhaib replied:

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetahlelbayt(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/SuhaibWebbSunniPath.pdf"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetahlelbayt(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wp/wp-content/upl...bbSunniPath.pdf[/url]

your question was stupid.
"Who you're with, you're amongs them."

 

So, "scholars" who identify with a site admitting shirk, is weird that they wouln't be sharing same views.

 

Authority belongs to Allah and His messanger.

 

Allahu A'Alam

Edited by Orthodox

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Sunnipath:Istighatha (calling upon someone for help, through Allah’s love and concern for them),

 

 

Uhhh

 

What SunniPath, Nuh Keller, GF Haddad, etc. do is try to confuse the reader and

obfuscate the issue. But let’s be very clear here: we say that their opinion is invalid and

constitutes shirk because they allow the wording “Ya Nabi madadâ€, something which all

the groups under the general label of Ahl as-Sunnah reject as being haram. So

SunniPath, Nuh Keller, GF Haddad, etc. will bring up the other disputed issues (such as

asking by the right of the Prophet or asking the Prophet to make du’a for us) and they

will try to make the debate about these issues, taking the focus away from what all Sunnis

are agreed upon, namely that saying “Ya Nabi madad†(i.e. directing one’s du’a for

divine help to other than Allah) is haram.

Edited by Orthodox

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There is no need to know that to know what shirk is. I understood the article.

 

yes, there is a need. if you don't know anything about what is being said, why do you think it's okay to paste an article that labels another muslim deviant?

 

SunniPath(contact admin if its a beneficial link) meanwhile says

 

and again, you've studied their proofs and logic and spectrum of scholarship allowing you to paste articles that claim they are deviant?

 

"Who you're with, you're amongs them."

 

So, "scholars" who identify with a site admitting shirk, is weird that they wouln't be sharing same views.

 

they haven't admitted shirk. you, with your incredibly limited understanding of Islam with the help of cut&paste jobs from sites you've been blind following think they commit shirk.

 

once again, you've missed the point, which seems to be a common theme with you. you don't know what you're talking about, so you should stop calling other muslims deviant. you've done no research yet you have the arrogance to think you can guide others away from a deviance which you yourself haven't understood. try and have some respect for the range of scholarship in Islam and admit you are in way over your head when it comes to matters in Islam. just follow what you want to follow and stop labelling others deviant.

 

Uhhh

 

What SunniPath, Nuh Keller, GF Haddad, etc. do is try to confuse the reader

 

and what is it you're trying to do? make things clear for the reader by saying xyz are deviant even though you can't possibly know why because you have no training whatsoever?

 

has it ever dawned on you that arrogance for any person, let alone an ignorant one, is a disgusting attribute?

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I won't comment on your immature statments that have no basis. Allah tells us to judge with sincerity.

 

they haven't admitted shirk. you, with your incredibly limited understanding of Islam with the help of cut&paste jobs from sites you've been blind following think they commit shirk.
Aha, maybe if you study from the Salaf what shirk is, and how serious it is no matter how small in your eyes it is, you would think twice.

 

so you should stop calling other muslims deviant
Do you realize that the "shaykhs" of yours call me, the Muslims on this forum, the whole Arab penincusa, best scholars of Islamic history anthropomorphists! Edited by Orthodox

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:sl:

 

I would advice all Muslims to verify their sources and to make sure that they are always in accordance with the teachings of the Salaf, and the consensus of the scholars. I believe that sister Orthodox's intentions are good, and so are brother Aussie's and sister Appleseed's. May Allah reward them all.

 

Topic closed to prevent disputes about sects and tawassul, unless the topic starter requests it to be reopened.

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