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Orthodox

Old Testament Vs New Testament

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Muslims often get out of arguments about oddness in Islan by saying "no-one knows Allah's plan", so it's a bit unfair of you to point out apparent oddness in Yaweh's plan.

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PropellerAds

You dont know what the plan is do you , meaning you have a choice , and in your case you dont want to use your brains which is not my problem :sl: .

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Orthodox,

just clear something for me:

so until circa 622 AD both Jews & Christians were Muslims?

 

Well, I couldn't believe that God created me to restrict worship to rituals only. We believe that everything we do and say is worship. And that it has to be in accordance to the Qur'aan an dthe way of Muhammad.

I hope you're not suggesting anything with waht you quoted. If you do, please clarify.

You’re suspicious! I was answering you. You asked wether we have any rulings concerning act of worship in Gospel. That was the main one. We don’t have much more.

 

 

So God waited for over 10,000 years since he created Adam a.s. to reveal the truth to mankind right :sl: ?
how did you count those years????:sl: He didn’t wait to reveal, He was revealing through whole history ("In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.â€).

 

Does that really make sense to you ?
Why doesn’t it make sense to you? Isn’t it true that Muslims believe that there other prophets before but their massage was corrupted and then came Muhammad and His massage wont get corrupted??? If yes, does it make sense to send massages that get corrupted and send "uncorruptable†after many thousand years (10,000 if you like)? It’s the same logic.

 

And why did that truth only come into place after the Council of Nicea ?
I don’t really get what your asking here. Could you elaborate?

 

and on top of that all , Jesus was begotten not made right ? So how can God Beget himself ?
Don’t know. I also don’t know how He can create world..but maybe you know and can tell?:no:

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how did you count those years????ohmy.gif He didn’t wait to reveal, He was revealing through whole history ("In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.â€).

 

Guessed it , it does not matter how accurate it is , what does matter is why God did not reveal himself to Abraham and Moses PBUT , I mean where is the Father , Son and Holy Ghost mentioned anywhere mentioned in the 10 Commandments given to Moses ?

 

heir of all things

 

Why does God almighty need a heir ? isnt he one so how can he be a Heir to himself ? :sl:

 

Why doesn’t it make sense to you? Isn’t it true that Muslims believe that there other prophets before but their massage was corrupted and then came Muhammad and His massage wont get corrupted??? If yes, does it make sense to send massages that get corrupted and send "uncorruptable†after many thousand years (10,000 if you like)? It’s the same logic.

 

Its not the same logic because Muhammad PBUH message compliments all the prophets before him except the Christian who have cried "holy trinity" , so why do Jews and Muslims have the Similar views on the oneness of God Almighty and the Christians not ?

 

I don’t really get what your asking here. Could you elaborate?

 

Here is a History lesson :

 

The First Council of Nicaea was a council of Christian bishops convened in Nicaea in Bithynia (present-day İznik in Turkey) by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in A.D. 325. The Council was the first effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all of Christendom.[2]

 

Its main accomplishments were settlement of the Christological issue of the relationship of Jesus to God the Father; the construction of the first part of the Nicene Creed; settling the calculation of the date of Easter; and promulgation of early canon law.[3][4]

 

it seems the Arians were almost on the right track :

 

The Arian controversy was a Christological dispute that began in Alexandria between the followers of Arius (the Arians) and the followers of St. Alexander of Alexandria (now known as Homoousians). Alexander and his followers believed that the Son was of the same substance as the Father, co-eternal with him. The Arians believed that they were different and that the Son, though he may be the most perfect of creations, was only a creation of God the Father. A third group (now known as Homoiousians) later tried to make a compromise position, saying that the Father and the Son were of similar substance.[25]

 

For about two months, the two sides argued and debated,[26] with each appealing to Scripture to justify their respective positions. According to many accounts, debate became so heated that at one point, Arius was slapped in the face by Nicholas of Myra, who would later be canonized and became better known as "Santa Claus".[27]

 

Much of the debate hinged on the difference between being "born" or "created" and being "begotten". Arians saw these as essentially the same; followers of Alexander did not. The exact meaning of many of the words used in the debates at Nicaea were still unclear to speakers of other languages. Greek words like "essence" (ousia), "substance" (hypostasis), "nature" (physis), "person" (prosopon) bore a variety of meanings drawn from pre-Christian philosophers, which could not but entail misunderstandings until they were cleared up. The word homoousia, in particular, was initially disliked by many bishops because of its associations with Gnostic heretics (who used it in their theology), and because it had been condemned at the 264–268 Synods of Antioch.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea[/url]

 

Jesus is the only begotten Son right ? and he is one with the father and the holy ghost .

 

So again how can God beget himself ?

 

Its a logical question .

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You dont know what the plan is do you

 

Neither do you. So you do not have the option of pointing out apparent illogicality in other religions, as you rely on the hidden plan to cover the apparent illogicalities in your own religion.

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Nope i can expose others as i wish :sl: , cause my religion is complete and perfect.

 

While others follow man made baloney and their grand daddies are chimps and apes :sl: .

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You've missed my point. I am aware that you regard your religion as the only true religion. Believers in other religions regard theirs as the only true religion. But if you want to argue with them about the relative merits of the religions in question, there is no point in simply saying "Mine is the only true religion". It doesn't get you anywhere. We already know that that's what you believe.

 

So there is no point in arguing that it doesn't matter if your religion has apparent illogicalities because your religion is by definition perfect so there must be a satisfactory super-human explanation for them - the believers in other religions can say exactly the same. It doesn't get you any further. We already know that you regard your religion as the only true religion, and you are adding nothing to the discussion by simply repeating that..

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They can say the same , if you look at our religion itself and its way of life and its solution to all social diseases and diseases of the heart then you can easily distinguish the difference.

 

We muslims stick to the rules of our religions , with one word in the Quran prohibiting alchohol almost all muslims do not drink, we have black sheep who do though.

 

But how many other religions have accomplished this ?

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They can say the same , if you look at our religion itself and its way of life and its solution to all social diseases and diseases of the heart then you can easily distinguish the difference.

 

All religions have rules which they claim would cure all social diseases and diseases of the heart if they were followed. The problem for all religions (including Islam) is that just having rules does not mean that they are followed. Also, specifically in regard to Islam (different religions have different problems) some of the rules do not actually cure social diseases, they make them worse and create other problems.

 

We muslims stick to the rules of our religions , with one word in the Quran prohibiting alchohol almost all muslims do not drink, we have black sheep who do though.

 

Most Hindus don't drink or eat beef, most Jews don't eat pork. All religions have "black sheep". I don't think Islam has a different proportion to other religions.

 

But how many other religions have accomplished this ?

 

Accomplished what? Got most of their practising members to obey most of the rules? Plenty of them. But even if Islam was unique in this it wouldn't mean Islam was any truer a religion.

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Nope if you look at the Muslims societies and compare it others you can see we have the least Social diseases and most Morals compared to both social & diseases Filth of other societies and i am actually being humble when i say that.

 

Islam is much different since as a whole they abstain from all bad which is not only not drinking alchohol but a lot more , which means we do not follow our own desires and give into temptations , making us stronger people than most people :sl: .

 

It does mean Islam is true , because its the only religion that can move Humanity with one word .

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And.

 

O ye that reject Faith!

I worship not that which ye worship,

Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,

Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

To you be your Way, and to me mine.

 

Surah Al Kafirun.

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Nope if you look at the Muslims societies and compare it others you can see we have the least Social diseases and most Morals compared to both social & diseases Filth of other societies and i am actually being humble when i say that.

 

Unfortunately, your definition of "filth" is whatever your religion says is filth. For people with different religions it might not be "filth". Before you can compare societies you need a set of common criteria to compare with. And the "social diseases" of fear of god/s and lack of artistic expression abound in Muslim societies.

 

Islam is much different since as a whole they abstain from all bad which is not only not drinking alchohol but a lot more , which means we do not follow our own desires and give into temptations , making us stronger people than most people .

 

Nope, most practising Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, pagans, wiccans, animists "abstain from all bad" as defined by their religions. So do believing communists, hippies, anarchists, whatever. Humans believing in a set of rules and following them is pretty common.

 

It does mean Islam is true , because its the only religion that can move Humanity with one word .

 

If by "Humanity" you mean all humanity, then your statement is obviously not true. If by "Humanity" you mean some people, then Islam is certainly not unique in that.

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Back to the original question:

The Old Testament is very much part of the Christian understanding about God and Christ. There are over 300 prophecies about Christ in the OT, but Christ was only seen as the Messiah in the OT and a hint of being much more. The “Law†the list of Jewish rules and traditions is described in the NT as being: “nailed to the crossâ€. All the “moral†laws are restated in the New Testament and are expanded upon to include our inner thoughts and desires prior to being acted out.

 

 

The Old Testament is also called “School Master to prepare us for the reality†in the NT. God is not the one changing, but there is certain preparation needed prior to the Messiah coming. For example: We start out in the Garden Situation that conveys a lot of basic information and shows us why a wonderful (almost heaven on earth) situation is a lousy place for humans to fulfill their objective. One of the main questions everyone asks at some point in their lives: “Why would a Loving God allow this (tragedy) to happen to His Children?†God addresses that in the first few chapters. Do you want to be in a situation where your eternal close relationship with God is dependent on your personal ability to not sin (the Garden of Eden prior to sin) or would you prefer to be in a place where your eternal close relationship with God was dependent on your accepting God’s forgiveness (God’s grace/mercy/Love)?

 

 

In the Old Testament we have the building story of the Messiah with lots of symbolic illustration of Christ (ex. blood sacrifices, high priest, and temple), we also have God telling us what pleases and displeases Him which is wonderful to know. This information lets us know we cannot be “pleasing†to God in what we do, because we all sin, so we need another method. The only working method is a forgiving God, but that is not easy for humans to expect, so the need to see God and the greatest example of sacrificial Love.

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