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The Right For Countries To Ban Hijab

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Hi,

Im doing religious studies as part of electives for my teaching degree. Im doing distant education, so our academic discussions form online. The lecturer has raised a topic about the ban of hijab in western countries. I would like to respond but didn't feel confident in responding in a way that brings the right of Islam forth while at the same time talking in a way that does not sound bias. I was hoping if someone can give me some ideas on responding. The lecturer said:

 

"I am very happy about Belgium's decision to ban completely covered faced Muslim women. That's a security threat and violation of the cultures where they live. One Muslim moman said it's a violation of individual rights. Well, if I decide to go naked in public and are arrested by police, is it violation of individual rights? In Many Muslim countries western women have to follow the local dress code. Then why shouldn't they be made to follow the dress code in the western countries."

 

Jazakom lahu khair.

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PropellerAds

salam dear sister. :sl: praise be to Allah that you have such good intention. Well I'm a kid, I don't know how to respond either. but I disagree about the banning of hijab in the country. :sl: Why can't we live peacefully. Islam doesn't teach forcing, may Allah forgive me. I live in a muslim country and there are no such things as forcing a westerner to wear hijab or such. I mean we do advice them to wear this or that, if they want to but we never foce them, may Allah forgive me.

 

"Life is just a test." :no: may Allah give good rewards for the faithful muslims. ameen.

Edited by Ewany

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:sl:

 

That's a very unprofessional instructor. Instructors should always keep neutrality so as to allow the students' own opinions to form.

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Yes, you are correct. The sadder part to this is that the lecturer is from Islamic origin. *sigh*

 

Any input will be appreciated.

 

Regards,

Houda.

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I personally don't agree with banning any clothing or lack of clothing. However, if you are not like me and you think there should be some laws about clothing or lack of clothing, you cannot really complain about laws about clothing.

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if I decide to go naked in public and are arrested by police, is it violation of individual rights?

 

What a stupid comment. There is a big difference between nakedness and hijab.

Why do they have a dress code in schools, etc...?

 

What does approving people being naked do? What does approving people to cover up do?

 

In other words,allowing women tobe naked doesn't liberate them.

Edited by Orthodox

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I believe it is perfectly alright to ban face covering. It does not violate any Islamic rules. Quran permits us to reveal what is "normally displayed", which certianly does not include face and hands. Any dress code that would make someone not identify must be banned. If someone covers the face we will never know even it is a man or woman. There was a incident reported, a man using niqab went to women's only beach in saudi arabia and was caught. We will never know how many people are misusing this. In gulf countries, there are many women using face covering as an advantage do lot of wrong doings, because no one can identify who are they.

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I believe it is perfectly alright to ban face covering.

 

Assalamu Alaykum

 

As I always say;" In cases of one being forced and in cases of necessity, haram things become permitted depending on the circumstances of an individual.

 

 

æÞóÃú ÃóÕøóáó áóßõã ãøóÇ ÃóÑøóãó Úóáóíúßõãú ÅáÇøó ãóÇ ÇÖúØõÑöÑúÊõãú Åáóíúåö )

 

ýwhile He has explained to you in detail what is forbidden to you, except under compulsion of necessity? [surah al-'An'aam:119]

you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetIslam-qa(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/en/ref/130815

 

No one is to believe in opposition to Islam.

1. Covering ALL Of The Body

 

It is an agreed position by many respected scholars that the face and hands of the woman must be covered. Some scholars say it is permissible to uncover the face and the hands of the woman as long as there is no fitna (infatuation) caused by this action. Two things must be taken into consideration

 

a) if she is beautiful and beautifies her face and hands with external substances, or

b) the society around her is corrupt where men do not lower their gaze, then it is prohibited for her to uncover her face and hands.

 

On the authority of the wife of the prophet (pbuh), Umm Salama (RA) said:

"When the verse was revealed that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies' was revealed, the women of Ansar came out as if they had crows over their heads by wearing outer garments.

 

......

 

There is a big difference between that which is apperant and that which we show it. You seriously need to stop mentioning irrevalent cases. Mohdimran, like all your proofs, this one is also ridiculous. Because some woman are harassed even though they wear hijab, does that mean that the rest of Muslim woman should take it off?

 

I wonder how many of us would attend a 'womans' beach after:

 

`And stay in your houses and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance.' (S33:33).

 

 

If someone covers the face we will never know even it is a man or woman.
What a refutation, uh. Let me ask you: What is worse, that I be killed or that I spend eternity in jahannam?

 

And Allah knew that the majority of mankind would disbelieve and not cover especially with a niqab. Hense, that they would walk half naked or naked too. Give glad tidings to the strangers. Niqab can be taken off when necessary and put back on.

 

 

 

To end this with kindness:

Concerning the Hadeeth of Asma' Regarding Hijaab

Question:

 

In a Hadeeth, Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu `alayhi wa sallam) ordered that a woman who reaches puberty is forbidden from showing her hands and face, and that is the Hijaab. Is there any Hadeeth which indicate that covering the face and hands is also compulsory?

Answer:

 

In his Sunan, Abu Dawud recorded this Hadeeth in the chapter "What a Woman May Show Of Her Beauty." He said, "Ya'qub bin Ka'b Al-Antaki and Mu'mmal bin Al-Fadhl Al-Harani narrated to us, they said; Al-Walid narrated to us from Sa'id bin Bashir, from Qatadah, from Khalid, (Ya'qub said: 'Ibn Durayk') from 'Aishah, may Allaah be pleased with her, that Asma' bint Abu Bakr, may Allaah be pleased with her, entered upon the Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu `alayhi wa sallam) and she was wearing a very thin garment. The Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu `alayhi wa sallam) turned away and said,

íÇ ÃÓãÇÁ Åä ÇáãÑÃÉ ÅÐ ÈáÛÊ ÇáãÍíÖ áã ÊÕáÍ Ãä íÑí ãäåÇ ÅáÇ åÐÇ æåÐÇ æÃÔÇÑ Åáì æÌåå æßÝíå

 

"O Asma'! Indeed when a woman begins to menstruate, it is not correct to see from her except this and this." (Abu Dawud no. 4104)

 

And he pointed to his face and hands."

 

The Hadeeth is Mursal[1] because Khalid bin Durayk never met 'Aishah, may Allaah be pleased with her. Also, Sa'id bin Bashir Al-Azdi — or Al-Basri as he was originally from Al-Basrah — has been graded trustworthy by some of the scholars of Hadeeth, while Ahmad, Ibn Ma'in, Ibn Al-Madini, An-Nisa'i, Al-Hakim, and Abu Dawud all graded him weak. Muhammad bin 'Abdullah bin Numayr said about Sa'id: "His narrations of Hadeeths are Munkar (rejected), he is nothing," and: "He is not strong in Hadeeth, he narrates Munkar things from Qatadah." Ibn Hibban said, "His memory is poor and he makes enormous mistakes, narrating from Qatadah things that others do not." As-Saji said: "He narrated some Munkar things from Qatadah."

 

In this Hadeeth, he is narrating from Qatadah. Then, Qatadah is himself a Mudalis,[2] and he is narrating this Hadeeth from Khalid bin Durayk, while the chain also contains Al-Walid, who is, Ibn Muslim and he is a Mudalis, and his Tadlis is the same, and Qatadah is above him in the chain. So with all of this, it is clear that this Hadeeth is weak from many angles.

 

And with Allaah is the facilitation to do what is right. May Allaah send peace and blessings upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family and his Companions.

 

____________________________

 

[1] A Mursal narration is one in which the link between the narrator and the Prophet (sallAllaahu `alayhi wa sallam) is not certain.

 

[2] A Mudalis is one who commits Tadlis. That is, narrating with wording that does not clearly convey whether he actually heard what he is narrating (say, "From" instead of "Narrated to us," or the like) or, distorting the name of the person he is narrating from so that it will not be obvious that he is narrating from someone whose narrations are disparaged.

 

Óää ÃÈí ÏÇæÏ

 

ÈÇÈ ÝíãÇ ÊÈÏí ÇáãÑÃÉ ãä ÒíäÊåÇ

 

[ 4104 ]

 

ÍÏËäÇ íÚÞæÈ Èä ßÚÈ ÇáÃäØÇßí æãÄãá Èä ÇáÝÖá ÇáÍÑÇäí ÞÇáÇ ËäÇ ÇáæáíÏ Úä ÓÚíÏ Èä ÈÔíÑ Úä ÞÊÇÏÉ Úä ÎÇáÏ ÞÇá íÚÞæÈ Èä ÏÑíß Úä ÚÇÆÔÉ ÑÖì Çááå ÊÚÇáì ÚäåÇ Ãä ÃÓãÇÁ ÈäÊ ÃÈí ÈßÑ ÏÎáÊ Úáì ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã æÚáíåÇ ËíÇÈ ÑÞÇÞ ÝÃÚÑÖ ÚäåÇ ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã æÞÇá íÇ ÃÓãÇÁ Åä ÇáãÑÃÉ ÅÐ ÈáÛÊ ÇáãÍíÖ áã ÊÕáÍ Ãä íÑí ãäåÇ ÅáÇ åÐÇ æåÐÇ æÃÔÇÑ Åáì æÌåå æßÝíå ÞÇá ÃÈæ ÏÇæÏ åÐÇ ãÑÓá ÎÇáÏ Èä ÏÑíß áã íÏÑß ÚÇÆÔÉ ÑÖì Çááå ÊÚÇáì ÚäåÇ

 

 

 

Permanent Committee for Research and Verdicts

 

Fatawa Islamiyah, Vol. 7, Pages 186-188, DARUSSALAM

Edited by Orthodox

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Does Hijab degrade and oppress women?

 

 

Muslim Sunni response to non-Muslims’ objection against Islamic ruling of hijab (asking women to dress modestly), which is generally perceived as head-covering. They say hijab is oppression and degrades women. According to them, the ruling of hijab violates freedom of rights and gender equality because this command is only directed to women.

 

First, we praise Allah and thank Him for everything. We do not come up with anything except that which is Bestowed upon us by the Creator, the Lord of the worlds. Indeed, the best speech is the Book of Allah, and the best Sunnah (way/guidance) is the Sunnah of last and final Prophet, Muhammad (peace be upon him – sal-allahu alayhi wa sallam). Indeed, praise to be Allah, Islam is truth (haqq) and whoever rejects Islam is among the losers and glad tidings to those who accept Islam and practice it to best of their ability.

 

Many of us either heard or read or came up with typical traditional responses to these objections/attacks against the ruling of hijab. In my opinion, some of these responses are defensive, some extreme and some apologetic. They may have helped Islam to some extent but due to the lack of pure Islamic response, they could not annihilate the attackers’ claims. How many times we have heard of the twin sister argument or the argument that hijab is about modesty? It is true that women weaing less clothes and showing-off their stuff are more likely to get attention but this is not true in all cases, neither it holds in all cases the covered women won’t get stares from men.

 

Insha’Allah, I will present some of the arguments to best of my ability to show how we need to tackle their objections – by no mean I am free of error and may Allah save us from arrogance, ameen. The order of the arguments is the key, wa allhamdulillah:

 

Bismillah Ar-Rahmaan Ar-Raheem (with the name of Allah, the Bestower of Mercy, the Merciful; [i start writing])

 

1 – Hijab is an order and a command of Allah and since He is our Creator, He knows what is best for us. Hence, He decides the laws for us. Man is flawed, limited and selfish; therefore, Muslims do not follow any man-made laws, neither we worship or pray to any man, nor we do consider ourselves capable of determining truth and falsehood. It is a fact that your methodology is inconsistency because the principle and notions which you call for have no ABSOULTE definition and implication. Therefore, we do not follow your corrupt methodology to determine laws for people.

 

2 – Muslims are shy and modest; hence, we like to cover ourselves by dressing modestly – the command of dressing modestly is for both men and women. Covering ourselves is found in every human’s natural belief (fitrah). It is in our fitrah to not walk naked and cover our private parts.

 

3 – If covering ourselves and dressing modestly is gender oppression/degradation/inequality, then why do not you walk naked? When did wearing less or more clothes become gender oppression/inequality? Would it make sense if a person wearing shorts says that the person wearing pants is oppressed? You perceive showing off (wearing less clothes) to be normal but covering (wearing more clothes) to be oppression. If we were to use this argument then the naked person will argue that the person wearing anything is oppressed. Where is your logic and common sense!?

 

4 – You say Islam makes it obligatory for women to cover more than men and this is gender inequality. I say look at your own secular law: do they not enforce your women to cover their breasts while this is not enforced on men? In offices, why do they enforce business dress – why it is enforced on men to wear pants whereas women can wear skirts? Is this not gender inequality and oppression? If you disagree then you have defied common sense. If you agree, then why do you not clean your own house from this “garbage†of gender inequality and apply this logic before attacking Islam!?

 

And Allah knows best

 

subhaanAllah, I had more in mind but forgot about it – I should have written down those. Kahyr, I will add them when I remember insha’Allah

 

akh Qatada, I do not think that we have covered this topic in iDawah so rest is up to you – adding ayaat and ahadith to this and adding it to iDawah databse

 

 

 

allow me to add a perspective that hasn;t been considered

 

when we deal with the disbelievers, we should try to reverse the argument on them when they impose on us.

 

so in reversing the argument back to them on this issue, then just simply tell them

 

"if a group of people were advocating the right for your daughter or womenfolk to walk with only a bikini or even naked in the street, then what would your response be and would you accept that your daughters or womenfolk would be oppressed if they were not allowed to perform this"

 

The sincere disbeliever will affirm the obvious, and when he or she affirms the obvious, then you will say, "and that is where we stand and our women stand" excep that our bar of dress code is much higher in the light of religious observance, thats all.

 

 

 

Salam,

 

I have two points to mention again:

 

1. Liberal societies must accept individualism even when it leads to face coverage or Hijab, If they refuse to accept women choosing to dress as they please in western countries then they can't call themselves liberals!

 

2. Women are not forced to wear Niqab or Hijab in western countries, perhaps a small minority are in some places but, generally speaking they are not. Therefore since there is a choice and will being carried out, no one can justifiably argue against head or face coverage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[using large font size is not allowed]

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Why do we muslim women wear the Burqa (face veil)? MRDFUK

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetyoutube(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/watch?v=bo00pEPcchA&feature=player_embedded"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetyoutube(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/watch?v=bo00pEPcchA...player_embedded[/url]

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Even if he tries to make a point that woman in the west are forced to cover in Muslim countries, it doesn't make sense to then retaliate and force Muslim woman to wear western clothing. So two wrongs make a right? I don't think hijab should be law for anyone, however, Muslim woman should wear it. I though am in no position to force anyone to wear it (except my own daughters to whom I will make wear it but once they are no longer children, the choice is theirs)

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This has gone seriously off topic. The OP asked whether or not countries had the right to make laws about clothing, not whether Islam demands certain clothing.

 

Obviously countries do have the right to make laws about anything they want. Whether or not we agree with those laws is a different question.

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This has gone seriously off topic.

 

You're mistaken.

The questionnarie asked:

 

didn't feel confident in responding in a way that brings the right of Islam forth while at the same time talking in a way that does not sound bias. I was hoping if someone can give me some ideas on responding.

 

The OP asked whether or not countries had the right to make laws about clothing, not whether Islam demands certain clothing.
The oponent did not ask. He made claims.
Obviously countries do have the right to make laws about anything they want.
Obviously.

 

How will forcing women to uncover benefit them or the country?

 

I wouldn't complain about it because it is their counry. But before people joined the country, they should have told them about this. Many are not born Muslim and tons of other cases ...

 

Uh, I noticed the capital letters next to the video I pasted, I didn't write it. It's funny because what would be the punishment for wearing the hijab?

Edited by Orthodox

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How does forcing people to wear/not wear certain clothing styles benefit a country? It makes the people who like/dislike those clothing styles feel better for not having to see them. It removes a source of offence.

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It removes a source of offence.

 

 

But no one is forcing Nuns to take their clothing off.

 

And I'm confused because you said that it doesn't matter what we think.

 

A bunch of other way more serious "offense" is not addressed.

 

For example, there are many extremists scholars have written and warned against, the goverment doesn't do much. Many ways, off topic. We would want to save these from committing a grave sin. It is what scholars do, my emotions don't count.

 

I am not very informed about this. Investigae yourself. It seems there is another reason behind the bann of niqab but are secrete.

Edited by Orthodox

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I'm not condoning making laws about what people can wear, I answered your specific question about what 'benefit' countries get by making laws about what people wear. As I said earlier, I think everyone should be free to wear what they want.

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But no one is forcing Nuns to take their clothing off.

 

But Nuns do not cover their faces in public. You can see quite clearly their faces. Countries who are banning the niqab are doing so because the culture in those countries is offended and alarmed when people walk around "masked". This is traditionally what people do when they have evil intent and do not wish their identities to be known viz. bank robbers, rapists, aggressors of any kind.

 

It is perfectly acceptable to therefore ban the niqab. If someone chooses not to uncover their face then they must choose not to travel to those countries. There can be no genuine NEED to go there just a desire.

 

If a Belgian born person wishes to take up the niqab and mask themselves then they must move to a place where that is acceptable.

 

There is hypocrisy I think within those who practice the Islamic faith but who come to non-Islamic states because they will not acknowledge that the benefits they desire from that non-Islamic state (and the reasons they choose to live in non-Islamic states) are directly correlated to the fact that the chosen country is a non-Islamic state.

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Since when do women in Hijab rob banks , every religion should be respected , they had no right to ban niqab whatsoever.

 

The only problem they have is cause Islam is growing in their back yards and there is nothing they can really do about it , so they start these sort of problems like covering of the face and Minarets.

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I tried to post three links one to a robbery in Australia one in France and a double one in the UK. They won't post it for some reason - perhaps links are not allowed. However here are excerpts from each story as you asked "since when.... etc. etc. etc."

 

Authorities in North Carolina don't know whether they are looking for a man or a woman in the search for a burqa-wearing bandit who walked into a bank Tuesday and pointed a gun at a teller before exiting with a bag full of money.

Burka bandit

(Alexander County Sheriff's Office)

More Photos

 

Investigators are reviewing surveillance footage that captured a dark-skinned person covered by a burgundy-shaded wrap who entered the bank branch in Hiddenite, N.C., around 3:40 p.m. and flashed a semiautomatic handgun. The wrap exposed only the individual's eyes and nose, making it difficult for police to determine the person's gender.

 

"It doesn't simplify matters, now, does it?" Capt. Keith Warren of the Alexander County Sheriff's Office told ABC News when asked about the unidentifiable "subject" who'd pulled off the stickup.

 

AND

 

Two burka-wearing bank robbers have pulled off a heist near Paris using a handgun concealed beneath their full Islamic veil.

 

 

Employees let the pair through the security double doors of the banking branch of a post office, believing them to be Muslim women.

 

They seized 4,500 euros (£4,000) in cash, according to staff at the branch in Athis Mons, just south of Paris, and made their getaway.

 

AND

 

CCTV footage has been released after a second robbery in which a knife-wielding man dressed in a burka targeted a travel agent's shop.

 

The raid in Luton followed a robbery at a travel agency in Dunstable, but they are not necessarily linked, say police.

 

In both robberies a man dressed in a burka, which covers the entire body apart from the eyes, took a "substantial" amount of cash.

 

 

 

I tried to post the links but they wouldn't work - a quick google of burka bank robber should bring up the links from the Telegraph (UK), ABC news (North Carolina robbery) and so on....

 

 

That aside, it is not part of our culture to walk around masked and hiding your identity and the spurious reason that "men" will look at me is vainglorious and ridiculous in this country and any other Western country!!! You may well believe yourself to be the most beautiful person in the world (unlikely) but it is irrelevant, I have seen actors and actresses of great beauty and renown walking down the street in the UK, for example Kate Blanchett taking her child to school and to be quite frank people here, in this country, simply politely get on with their own business in the main.

 

If you feel you must remain masked, then you must remain in a country where being masked is allowed.

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every religion should be respected

 

So if my religion from an obscure Amazonian tribe says that I must walk bare-breasted in the streets, that would be okay?

 

Or is it only, the Muslim religion must be respected?

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Actually i think the robbery argument is weak , why dont they ban Stockings and balaclavas instead ?

 

I mean since when do Niqabi ladies rob banks ?

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