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Seriously, Isn't The Source Of The Qur'an In Doubt?

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SOLDIER and RAZZ-MATTAZZ …

 

Muslim websites have brainwashed you into believing falsehoods.

The Bible was not altered nearly as much as you think.

ALL of the major important doctrines are in ALL Bibles.

NO Bible has ever been brought forth which is missing ANY of these.

 

As for added and deleted words, phrases, clauses, sentences, books …

WHAT A JOKE … How many times does the same info have to be in the Bible?

What do you recommend? … 20 times, 10 times, how about 5 times, 3 times?

 

I assume you’re referring to Lot. Was he a prophet of God? Doesn’t matter, he was a man.

David was “a man after God’s own heartâ€, and he committed adultery and murder.

News Flash … David was a man.

 

I’ll give it to you straight … boys and girls …

Muslims’ problem is they do not understand GOD, SATAN, or MAN.

Period, end of story.

 

To repeat what I've already said …

 

ALL of the major important doctrines are in ALL Bibles. Show otherwise.

 

I said the “angel†was not tested for authenticity, which the Bible insists

must be done for all spirits, angels, etc. who come along (see 1 John 4:1-3).

 

IF Satan was the source of the Qur’an, he surely would have mixed truth with lies!

He would have included many impressive things and sayings to deceive us.

 

I’m still SEEKING for more truth … how about you?

 

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I assume you’re referring to Lot. Was he a prophet of God? Doesn’t matter, he was a man.

David was “a man after God’s own heart”, and he committed adultery and murder.

News Flash … David was a man.

 

The Prophets(as) are sent as role models for mankind. They do not commit these filthy sins. I agree they were men but they were guided by Allah and they were and are the BEST of mankind. All the Prophets and messengers were men and so was Jesus(as). He was also just a man and not divine.

 

I said the “angel” was not tested for authenticity, which the Bible insists

must be done for all spirits, angels, etc. who come along (see 1 John 4:1-3).

 

My mistake. How do you test an angel for authenticity?

 

IF Satan was the source of the Qur’an, he surely would have mixed truth with lies!

He would have included many impressive things and sayings to deceive us.

 

He would then surely have mixed good with evil. But there is no evil in the Quran. Yet there are many evils found in the bibles of today. There are also so many different versions of the bible. Which is the right one?

 

I’m still SEEKING for more truth … how about you?

 

Alhumdulillah I have the truth. I have Islam. Alhumdulillah. You should also accept it. Because the message that Prophet Muhamad(saw) brought was the same that Jesus(as) was sent with. And that is: God is One. He has no partners. Worship God, my lord and your lord.

Edited by SaracenSoldier

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yeah the god of the quran is not the god of the bible.

the jesus of the quran is not the jesus of the bible.

the message of the quran is not the message of the bible.

the way of salvation in the quran is not the same as found in the bible.

the geanologys.times places evnts are not the same as the bible.

the whole theology of the quran is totally alien to wha[##][/##]ts in the bible.

this list can go on and on.....

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Saracen,

 

I didn't think it was necessary, but I guess it is ...

 

Muslims’ problem is they do not understand GOD, SATAN, or MAN, or PROPHETS!

Period, end of story. The list is growing ... now we have 4.

 

GOD's prophets were just idiot men like you and I.

GOD's prophets just happened to be chosen and called by GOD to be used by Him.

GOD's prophets were given information to be passed on to idiots like you and I.

Usually, GOD's prophets were obedient and did so.

GOD's prophets often were greatly rejected ... what a life!

GOD's prophets were men ... they often screwed up ... like idiots like us do.

 

P.S. Lot was not a prophet, he was just a relative of Abraham.

Both were idol-worshippers until GOD chose and called Abraham.

P.S. If you wish to know the truth about such things, read the Bible.

 

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hehehe, truth-searcher, now your making me laugh with your logic... ok so let me get this straight the prophets were just human like you or me right? Ok I understand that but if they were capable of doing very sinful things why would god choose them for the job of GUIDING the sinful people? lol so now you point to your prophets and say this prophet did adultery or this prophet committed incest and you think this is logical???? Because there are many people who have never committed such sinful things and they were not prophets soooo why would GOD choose someone who is less qualified, that doesnt even make sense on a human level! I mean you dont hire people that arent qualified because that would lead to a bad outcome... and god doesnt make mistakes sooo if we are to think about this logically then maybe the prophets didnt actually do these sins *gasp* and maybe just maybe they were good people the best of people so god gave them the gift of the revelation. But WHY does the bible demean the prophets?? o I dont know maybe a king or some important person got caught doing these sins and and belonging to an intensely religious society was motivated to bribe some corrupt priests to alter the text and slander the prophets so they can point to them and say "SEE the prophets did this so we are all just human and you have no right to mutiny against me or chop my head off". hehehe, o and by the way truth-searcher Im responding to your invented theory for the sake of people reading because I think that you are not really debating or trying to find information but trying to CONVERT us to your ways..

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What are you going to say on the day of judgement when God ask you why did you slander my prophets?? maybe you would have an excuse if those were the only stories of the prophets but God sent another messenger that corrected this slander and restored honor in the prophecies. How can you feel no shame in concocting lies about men that God himself chose for leading people away from sin? You know I would also like to point out that more then 20 or so years ago the bible was considered the WORD of god not INSPIRED by god, only after scientist and inter-faith dialogues exposed the contradictions and inaccuracies in the bible did people start saying that noooo its not the the WORD of god it was you know just INSPIRED by god.... why would god just inspire people?? is he not capable of sending down the real thing? seriously the christians changed their views because they knew that they would look like fools to continue with that view!!

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Truth seeker you ignored me again :no: , anyways lets let the Bible speak and then judge who was inspired by the man in red and a fork :sl: .

 

PROPHETS BUT NAKED !

--------------------

[Gen 9:21]

Noah drank of the wine, and became drunk, and lay uncovered in his tent.

and Ham [his son] saw the NAKEDNESS of his father.

 

[1 Sam. 19:23]

And the spirit of God came upon Saul.. And he too STRIPPED OFF HIS

CLOTHES, and he too prophesied before Samuel and lay NAKED all the day

and all the night.

 

[2 Sam. 6:20]

David DANCES NAKED before the people and before the Lord.

 

[Exo. 15:20]

And so his sister Mariam the Prophetess dances, she took a tremble and

dances with the women.

 

FORNICATORS !

-------------

[Judg. 14:19]

And the spirit of God came upon Samson, he killed thirty men.

 

[Judg. 15:5]

And he burned up the shocks and the standing grain as well as the olive

orchards...

 

[Judg. 16:1]

And he went to Gaza, and there he saw a HARLOT, and he went into her.

 

LOT'S DAUGHTERS COMMIT INCEST WITH HIM !

----------------------------------------

[Gen. 19:30]

Lot went up out of Zo'ar and dwelt in the hills with his two daughters.

And the first-born said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is

not a man on earth to come to us after the manner of all the earth.

COME LET US MAKE OUR FATHER DRINK WINE AND WE WILL LIE WITH HIM, that we

may preserve offspring through our father. So they made their father drink

wine that night; AND THE FIRST BORN WENT IN AND LAY WITH HER FATHER; HE

DID NOT KNOW WHEN SHE LAY DOWN OR WHEN SHE AROSE.

 

And on the next day, the first-born said to the younger "Behold, I lay

last night with my father, let us make him drink wine tonight also; then

you go in and lie with him that we may preserve offspring through our

father.

So they made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger

arose, and LAY WITH HIM; and he did not know when she lay down or when

she arose. THUS BOTH THE DAUGHTERS OF LOT WERE WITH CHILD BY THEIR FATHER.

 

JUDAH WITH HIS DAUGHTER-IN-LAW

-------------------------------

 

Judah fornicates with his daughter-in-law: Ta'-mar.

[Gen. 38:15]

When he saw her, he thought her to be a harlot, for she had covered

her face. He went over to her at the road side and said "Come, LET ME

COME INTO YOU" for he did not know that she was his daughter-in-law.

She said, "What will you give me, that you may come into me?" He

answered, "I will send you a kid from the flock." And she said "Will

you send me a pledge till you send it?" He said, "What pledge shall I

give you?" She replied "Your signal and your cord and your staff that

is in your hand."

 

So he gave them to her, and WENT INTO HER, and she conceived by him.

About three months later, Judah was told, "Ta'-mar your daughter-in-

law has played the harlot, and moreover SHE IS WITH CHILD BY HARLOTRY.

 

DAVID WITH HIS NEIGHBOUR'S WIFE

--------------------------------

[2.Sam. 11:1]

David arose from his couch and was walking upon the roof that he saw

from the roof a WOMAN BATHING; and the woman was very beautiful, and

David sent and enquired about the woman. And one said, "Is not that

Bathshe'ba, the daughter of Eli'am, the wife of Uri'ah the Hittite?"

 

So David send messengers and took her, and SHE CAME TO HIM AND HE

LAY WITH HER.. Then she returned to her house; and she sent and told

David, I am with child. David called her husband, and invited him,

and ate in his presence and drank, so that he made him drunk. In the

morning David wrote to Jo'ab, "Set Uri'ah in the forefront of the

hardest fighting, and then draw back from him, that he may be struck

down and die.

When he died David sent and brought Uri'ah's wife to his house, and

she became his wife.

 

GOD PUNISHES DAVID

-------------------

[2.Sam. 12:10]

The Lord said to David, "Because you despised me, and have taken the

wife of Uri'ah the Hittite to be your wife.

Thus say the Lord, "Behold, I will take your wives (He punished David

through his daughter and son not his wife as you will see) before your

eyes, and give them to your neighbour and he shall lie with your wives

in the sight of this sun."

 

DAVID'S SON WITH HIS SISTER

---------------------------

[2.Sam. 13:1] Amnon the son of David fell in love with his sister Ta'-mar.

"Amnon was so tormented that he made himself ill because of his sister

Ta'-mar; for she was a virgin, and it seemed impossible to Amnon to do

anything to her.

Amnon had a friend who said to him, "Lie down on your bed and pretend to

be ill, and when [your father] the king comes to see you, you say to him:

let my sister Ta'-mar come and give bread to eat from her hand. David sent

Ta'-mar to her brother and ordered her to feed her brother by her hand.

 

Ta'-mar took the cakes she had made, and brought them into the chamber to

Amnon, but when she brought them near him to eat, he took hold of her,

and said to her, "Come, lie with me, my sister", she said, "No my brother,

do not force me." But he would not listen to her; and being stronger than

she, he forced her, and lay with her."

 

GET FOR YOURSELF A HARLOT !!!

-----------------------------

[Hos. 1:2]

When the Lord first spoke to Hose'a he said to him, "GO TAKE TO YOURSELF

A WIFE OF HARLOTRY and have children of harlotry, for the land has

committed great harlotry by forsaking the Lord."

 

[Gen. 35:22]

Rueben the son of Jacob lay with Bilhah his father's concubine.

 

[Gen. 49:4]

His father blamed him and said, "Because you went up to your father's

bed, then you defiled it, you went up to my couch.

 

PAGAN PROPHETS !!!

------------------

[1 King 11:3]

Solomon had seven hundred wives princesses and three hundred concubines;

and his wives turned his heart after other Gods.... the Goddess of the

Sido'nians.

 

 

What do you think TS ? :sl:

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RAZZ-MATTAZZER,

 

I explained who prophets were/are in Post #30.

 

Speaking GOD’s words for GOD is much different than your false concept.

 

I.e. They were simply GOD’s messengers (and were as sinful as anyone else).

 

I.e. Where does GOD tell any of His prophets to say to the people:

"Watch this prophet of mine carefully, and follow his wonderful example."?

 

And apparently you have not read Mohammed’s biography.

You really should ... it's quite interesting.[using large font size is not allowed]

 

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AL,

 

I won't tell you what I think ... I'll tell you what I know.

 

GOD inspired men to write the Truth in the Bible ...

of all of terrible sins that His sinful creations did, do now, and will do.

 

Because ... don’t forget that GOD’s #1 PURPOSE FOR THE OT was to PROVE that

Man was, is now, and will be TOTALLY incapable of being obedient to GOD’s Law(s)!

 

PURPOSE #2 was to bring forth His Messiah/Savior through His chosen people.

(The poor guy, the LORD, had to choose some people group!)

 

Have a nice day.

 

P.S. I'm gonna put your list up on my wall, so everyone can read what they already know.

 

[using large font size is not allowed]

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I have read his biography, but im sure its not the same as yours because it seems like you get all your information from the 700 clubs website... All Im going to say on this issue is that when i am standing in front of god I will not be afraid to tell him that I thought his prophets were the best examples of humans. What are you going to say? You all remind me of the people from centuries ago that no matter how much proof was given to them they still couldn't believe that the sun was the center of the universe, or the earth was round. You still cling to your illogical and ridiculous beliefs...

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Razzle-dazzle,

There's only one thing in life that you can hang your hat on, and here it is:

Satan has always known what the shape of the earth is.

Circular, oval, elliptical, whatever ... I couldn't care less.

 

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GOD inspired men to write the Truth in the Bible ...

 

This is where your problem lies. Allah sent Jesus(as) with the message. Jesus(as) delivered the message. Then why would Allah "inspire" men after Jesus(as) and reveal the same thing? Has it ever occurred to you that maybe SATAN could have inspired these people to change the original message of Jesus(as)?

 

PS Im talking about people who were "inspired" to write the bible and they weren't even with Jesus(as) not the disciples of Jesus(as) who might have wrote down what he taught them.

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Even if its taken out of context is still filled with filth more than anything else , and your friend TS knows for a fact these verses are inspired by the red man with the fork .

 

Would you like me to post About ahola and aholiba ? or why dont you do it for us :sl: ?

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This is where your problem lies. Allah sent Jesus(as) with the message. Jesus(as) delivered the message. Then why would Allah "inspire" men after Jesus(as) and reveal the same thing? Has it ever occurred to you that maybe SATAN could have inspired these people to change the original message of Jesus(as)?

PS Im talking about people who were "inspired" to write the bible and they weren't even with Jesus(as) not the disciples of Jesus(as) who might have wrote down what he taught them.

Hey, Problem, you got the first 2 right ...

#1 ... Allah sent Jesus(as) with the message.

#2 ... Jesus(as) delivered the message.

 

#3 is ... People who were there, heard what Jesus(as) said, i.e. "the message".

#4 is ... People who were there, saw what Jesus(as) did, i.e. miracles, etc.

Gee, this is fun ... can we do more?

 

#5 is ... People who were there, told other people what they had seen and heard.

#6 is ... Whoever GOD decided to use as His "writers" (and who cares what their names were)

... remembered what they saw and/or heard, and wrote down what they saw and/or heard.

Gee ... this is so complicated, I just can't stand it.

 

If you don't believe what they wrote, Jesus has labelled you as being "filled with unbelief".

 

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Truth-Searcher,

 

Would you not agree that a book, sent down by God, outlining what you needed to do in order to earn eternal salvation and escape the everlasting torment of the hell fire, would be; straight forward, easy to understand, free of contradictions and never changing?

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Assalamu Alalkium,

(most of this is for the sake of argument, please disregard anything that comes of as strange..this is a logic I presented the other day in my Religious Beliefs class when strangely enough this exact same topic was brought up)

 

I do not wish to step on any toes by posting this in the middle of this argument; but Truth Seeker if as you say Islam was created by Shaytan, then why would we be taught a dua to seek refuge in Allah swt from Shaytan? If Shaytan created Islam you would think this would be left out as it more or less negates his goal.

 

Okay, so we are both in agreement in the existence of One God (call Him what you will, for the sake of argument, we agree He exists). We are also, obviously from the content of this post, in agreement in the existence of Shaytan (call him what you will) So, if you acknowledge the existence of evil ie. Shaytan, then there must the the existence of good ie Allah swt. So, by this logic if you seek refuge from Shaytan in Allah swt then even if for the sake of argument you call Allah swt by another name you would be seeking refuge in the opposite of Shaytan ie. The evil with the Good ie Allah swt. So therefore, you would be going against what you can safely and logically assume Shaytan would like you to do. (brothers and sisters do not be angry at this next comment, this is not my opinion, just merely something brought up for the sake of this argument, I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS) So, if as you say Shaytan create this religion Islam he did a very poor job of doing so being that in the end, you still worship your one and only creator Allah swt, or whatever your preferred name for Him may be. If, for the sake of argument, Shaytan was the "angle Jibreel" as you say, and since he Shaytan can only act by Allah's swt will (as is the case with everything created by Allah swt) he Shaytan in thinking he was misguiding created guidance by Allah's swt will. Therefore, by your own argument, Allah swt created Islam. Do you see what I am trying to say? I hope I am expressing myself clearly enough.

 

(Again, I do not believe this, I believe the Angle Jibreel, sent to Prophet Muhammad saw delivered the verbatim word of God. There is no God but Allah swt, and the Prophet Muhammad saw is the Messenger of Allah swt!)

 

Hopes this helps

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Truth-Searcher,

Would you not agree that a book, sent down by God, outlining what you needed to do in order to earn eternal salvation and escape the everlasting torment of the hell fire, would be; straight forward, easy to understand, free of contradictions and never changing?

Honestly, Christians believe ALL these things are true of their religion.

But, I am told that Muslims have no way of being sure they're going to Heaven.

 

You can't "see" what Christians do simply because ...

 

“All that the Father gives to Me will come to Me …

No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him …

no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father ... etc.â€

(John 6:37, John 6:44, John 6:65, etc.)

This is explained in about 20 different verses.

 

Injil says Jesus' gospel is foolishness to most people (1 Corinthians 1;18).

 

 

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Nashida, this is an updated version. See especially the second >>>

 

Please try to follow my observations and reasoning …

 

>>> In many verses, the Bible teaches that Satan is an extremely intelligent liar and deceiver!

 

And historically, man has always been a spiritual moron (note all of the different faiths).

 

The Bible warned that “Satan transforms himself into an angel of lightâ€.

It warned against a false “angel from heaven†who preaches another gospel.

It instructed how to TEST “angels†to see if they are from God or from Satan!

It did a lot of warning about the arrival of false prophets and false gospels.

I believe God intended for man to take ALL of His warnings seriously!

 

600 years later … an “angel†who called itself “Gabriel†appeared to Mohammed.

It was not tested at all for any kind of authenticity!

 

I see several other reasons why the source of the Qur’an is in doubt.

Much of what this “angel†said is opposed to what the Bible says,

i.e. its versions of the Torah stories are different than what the Torah says.

It praises the Bible, and says it came to confirm it, but then preaches against it.

Allah says he is the God of the Bible, but I see several differences between the two.

 

>>> IF Satan was the source of the Qur’an, he surely would have mixed truth with lies!

He would have included many impressive things and sayings to deceive us.

 

An obvious conclusion would be: this false “angel Gabriel†deceived Mohammed.

Another “angel†called "Moroni" deceived Joseph Smith resulting in Mormonism.

 

I am very anxious to hear your thoughts on this extremely serious matter.

Edited by Truth-Searcher

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sooo what are the tests to make sure its not "satan"?

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The Bible warned that “Satan transforms himself into an angel of lightâ€.

It warned against a false “angel from heaven†who preaches another gospel.

 

Orrr maybe Satan knew that there was a Messenger of God following Jesus aaand he deceived people into rejecting that messenger by making them think that the previous Messenger of God (Jesus) claimed things that he never did!

 

You can't debate religion by using religion as proof, my friend. I've just shown you how easy it is to refute your argument.

 

P.S: I mean no disrespect to Christians, I'm simply making a point.

 

Salam.

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Orrr maybe Satan knew that there was a Messenger of God following Jesus aaand he deceived people into rejecting that messenger by making them think that the previous Messenger of God (Jesus) claimed things that he never did!

 

You can't debate religion by using religion as proof, my friend. I've just shown you how easy it is to refute your argument.

 

P.S: I mean no disrespect to Christians, I'm simply making a point.

 

Salam.

I agree we just do not know.

What we can look at is which is more logical and address misconceptions on both sides.

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Orrr maybe Satan knew that there was a Messenger of God following Jesus,

and he deceived people into rejecting that messenger by making them think that

the previous Messenger of God (Jesus) claimed things that he never did!

You can't debate religion by using religion as proof, my friend.

I've just shown you how easy it is to refute your argument.

P.S: I mean no disrespect to Christians, I'm simply making a point.

Salam.

Yes, I get your point ... up to a point.

IF Satan sent "Gabriel" to Mohammed ...

of course Satan would know that he was arranging for a messenger to follow Jesus.

True Christians would not have been deceived by God or Satan or anyone else ...

because they have an inner Witness assuring them that what they have is the Truth.

But again, this fact really is unprovable.

Similarly, if a UFO lands in my backyard at 3am, I can't prove this unless there are witnesses.

 

I'd like to NOTE here my appreciation for Redeem having so much patience with me all these weeks.

 

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sooo what are the tests to make sure its not "satan"?

1 JOHN 4:1-3 ... The Bible test for false spirits, false angels, demons, etc.

 

4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God;

because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God:

Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,

4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God.

And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming,

and is now already in the world.

 

Note-1

The idea here is:

(4:1) The false prophets are controlled by false spirits, and will say false things.

(4:2) People speaking spiritual Truth from God have "the Holy Spirit of truth"

inside of them leading them into all truth (John 16:13, etc.).

(4:3) Other people have a different spirit about them (possibly inside of them)

who are not speaking spiritual Truth from God. See this "different spirit" in 2 Corinthians 11:4.

The Antichrist "spirit" refers to demons and people who are against Christ and His gospel.

 

Note-2

Everyone knows that Jesus Christ came in the flesh (was born into the world),

so this is talking about GOD coming in the flesh (being born into the world).

 

Perhaps the best OT prophecies about God being born into the world are Isaiah 7:14 and 9:6.

These are identical in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

And I still haven't heard the Jewish explanation of why these verses are rubbish.

 

I'm still open and searching for more spiritual truth ... are you?

Edited by Truth-Searcher

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your just giving proof based on stuff about jesus, how would you test it before jesus? also I'm not searching for spiritual truth, I've already found it, and I dont think you are either. You sound like a missionary who's trying to be really careful.

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your just giving proof based on stuff about jesus, how would you test it before jesus? also I'm not searching for spiritual truth, I've already found it, and I dont think you are either. You sound like a missionary who's trying to be really careful.

News Flash!

Razzle-dazzle has found all the spiritual truth he can handle ... enough is enough already.

No test for spirits/angels before Jesus, as far as I know ... but what do I know?

Not sure if OT gave any test.

 

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