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World’s Oldest Bible

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:sl: akh for posting.

 

 

The New Testament books are in a different order, and include numerous handwritten corrections — some made as much as 800 years after the texts were written, according to Christian bible scholars who worked on the project of putting this worlds oldest Bible online. The changes range from the alteration of a single letter to the insertion of whole sentences.

 

Why put it online, this Bible?

 

now must ask, how is this promoting God's love? I must say, I myself have done wrong by God, but in having done so I have learned and have been given wisdom from my God. What you are saying is assuredly things most Christians, including myself know, it does not stop the Bible from being a good source to show us ways to love God, let's see, we should pray, we should love the homeless, we should worship God, we should pray, we should devote our lives to God, funny how a lot of these teachings go hand in hand with things the Qu'ran teaches, instead of alienating people who worship the same God you do, why not try to unite them, making people angry, that is not of God and I believe you know that, telling people what you tell them, making them turn their attention from loving God even for a moment and telling them to be upset, that is not of God. We need to spread peace not animosity, please, think on these things, you are a high-ranking member here, please, I urge you, think of what you are posting for speaking as a high-ranking official, a moderator or protector of a forum, that puts pressure on you to spread the love of God and not to spread hatred.

 

Also filing any group of people into one category based on the fact that they have the same religion is not correct. I mean, that would be like calling all Muslims terrorists, it is false but yet many do it, generalizations do not make some one sound intelligent and I know that you most likely are. May God's love shine through you and may you guide people to Him through love, not by condemning other religions, that is not what God intended.

 

You are right that we should call to Tawheed (oneness of Allah/God). There are similarities in the Qur'an and the Bible, but we believe the Bible is a collection of previous original books of the ptophets, pbut. The original books do not exist which is known. I wonder how do Christians explain the similarities of the Qur'an to the Bible? People should live in peace I guess. What I try to spread is that we must forbid evil. These are one of the great pricipals of Islam. If you are satisfied with what Allah is not, then you would not mind committing the same thing. However, we must act wisely.

 

Yes, there are extrems in Islam. However, this has been happening in recent times (I guess). I am not bothered if anyone called me a terrorist. It is true that many of my brothers have been bombing things. Even though senior most orthodox scholars do not teach such a thing.

Edited by Orthodox

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I wonder how do Christians explain the similarities of the Qur'an to the Bible?

I believe most Christians would attribute it to the Qur'an being written much later than the Bible (and even more so than the Torah), and that these stories were a familiar part of the surrounding culture that became incorporated into the Qur'an. I understand that this is not an explanation that you accept, but since you asked how Christians explain these similarities, I think that this is the most likely answer.

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It doesnt matter i will post it anyways for everyone who comes into this thread to see how clean and nicely worded the Inspiration of the Bible was :sl: .

you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_kingjbible(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/ezekiel/23.htm

 

Nice bedtime story for the kids eh ? :sl:

It is good that this disgusts you since that was what it is ment to do. This is the ‘vision†(parable) the prophet saw. These two sisters represent the Northern and Southern Jewish Kingdoms at the time, which in God’s eyes were as wicked as you see these two sisters. Outwardly they might not be any worse then some countries today (including the USA), but they were wicked as could be.

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How does one compare the similarities of the Qu'ran to the Bible?

 

The Qu'ran is based off the Old and New Testaments, the Prophet (pbuh) talks of Moses, Jesus, all the key players are there not to mention a lot of what he talks about are stories from the Bible, I just wonder, why fight over books when we should be promoting God's love? I mean the basics of many religions are this:

 

Love God

Pray

Be devoted to God

Worship no one but God

Love each other

Teach others to love God

Don't hurt each other

The men are supposed to look out for the women and protect them

Men are under God women are under men and God

 

Do I have it right so far? Both are taught in the Qu'ran and in the Bible and probably also in the Torah considering the Torah is the Old Testament

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I believe most Christians would attribute it to the Qur'an being written much later than the Bible (and even more so than the Torah), and that these stories were a familiar part of the surrounding culture that became incorporated into the Qur'an. I understand that this is not an explanation that you accept, but since you asked how Christians explain these similarities, I think that this is the most likely answer.

 

I very much know what the Christians like to make into an argument. I lived around orthodox Christians in Bosnia. I asked so this thread turns into something benefitial.

 

What you say is partly what they say.

 

and that these stories were a familiar part of the surrounding culture that became incorporated into the Qur'an
In other words; the Gospel. Even if I base nothing of off Islamic teachings, that's still against anyone's logic. It's like me gathering all tales from my culture and compiling them into a book. Imagine how many just omens, etc... would I follow.

 

In fact, the Qur'an gives more information than the Bible of some "stories." In the Bible, we are not told that what happened to the Pharoah during time of Moses, but Quran explicitly mention that Pharoah's body is saved and kept as sign for unbelievers till day of Judgment. Dr. Maurice Bucaille accepted Islam when he found out that Muslims knew that becasue of the Qur'an.

 

The facts, Qur'an teaches that some of the Bible is wrong. Islam teaches the Bible is corrupt. It wouldn't make sense then what you say.

 

The very first translation of Old Testament only in Arabic was done in year 900 AD. Some 2-3 centuries later after the death of Prophet Muhammad and compilation of Quran.

 

 

1) Stating information that already exists does not imply plagiarism

 

 

 

Just because the Qur'an mentions stories about Prophet Moses (peace be upon him) or David (peace be upon him), which are also found in the Bible does not necessarily imply that it was copied from the Bible. It is very possible that those true stories were maintained in the Bible and the Qur'an simply came to confirm their authenticity, especially when we take into consideration that this is one of the functions of the Qur'an. (Surah 5:48)[using large font size is not allowed]

 

2) How did Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Avoid Errors if He Were Plagiarizing?[using large font size is not allowed]

 

If the Prophet (peace be upon him) were copying from the Bible blindly then we would expect to see that he would have also copied some of the errors in the Bible.

 

 

 

The Bible mistakenly calls the king that lived during the time of Joseph 'Pharaoh' (e.g. see the book of Genesis, Chapter 41, Verses 14, 25 & 46) while he really shouldn't be called Pharaoh. This is because the Egyptians did not call their ruler "Pharaoh" until the 18th Dynasty (c. 1552 - 1295 BC) in the New Kingdom Period.

 

 

 

But the Qur'an correctly labels him only as 'king' (The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 12, Verses 43, 50, 54, 72 & 76) The Bible's use of the term 'Pharaoh' is an anachronism, while the Qur'an's usage of the term 'king' isn't.

 

 

 

For an excellent online article to read on the issue please refer to the article "Qur'anic Accuracy Vs. Biblical Error: The Kings & Pharaohs Of Egypt", available here.

 

 

 

The Psalmist says that nothing can escape the sun's heat (read this), mistakenly showing that he didn't understand the vastness of the universe and how things in the universe are not affected at all by the Sun's heat. The Qur'an says no such thing. As a matter of fact, the Qur'an indirectly goes against this by speaking about the darkness found in the depth of the seas in Chapter 24, Verse 40. Thus, the Qur'an speaks about some places in which there is no light.

 

 

 

The Bible contains genealogies scattered throughout the Old Testament, (especially in books such as 2 Chronicles) which imply that the first human being was created sometime between 6,200 and 7,300 years ago (Dr. Walt Brown., In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood, (7th Edition), Source).

 

 

 

However, this is an archaeological error since there are human fossils that predate this early date:

 

 

 

The fossilized skulls of two adults and one child discovered in the Afar region of eastern Ethiopia have been dated at 160,000 years, making them the oldest known fossils of modern humans, or Homo sapiens. (Robert Sanders, "160,000-year-old fossilized skulls uncovered in Ethiopia are oldest anatomically modern humans", UC Berkley News, 11 June, 2003, Source)

 

Scientists have unearthed three 160,000-year-old human skulls in Ethiopia that are the oldest known and best-preserved fossils of modern humans' immediate predecessors. (Rick Callahanm, "160,000-Year-Old Skulls Found", CBS News, June 11 2003, Source)

 

Human fossils found 38 years ago in Africa are 65,000 years older than previously thought, a new study says 'pushing the dawn of "modern" humans back 35,000 years. (Hillary Mayell, "Oldest Human Fossils Identified", National Geographic News, February 16, 2005, Source)

 

 

 

 

 

However, the Qur'an and authentic hadith are silent on this issue. Surely, we would expect to have seen the Prophet (peace be upon him) copying from these genealogies since they are so scattered across the Bible.

 

 

 

 

 

Thus, when we investigate the claim of whether the Prophet (peace be upon him) plagiarized from the Bible or not we can see that the evidence further supports his Prophethood and does not discredit it.

 

 

 

Furthermore, the assertion of Judeo-Christian borrowing raises a number of questions. Jamal Badawi puts forward the following six questions:

 

Why is it in spite of the abundance of historical material on Muhammad's (peace be upon him) life, and in spite of the extensive research on his life for centuries by his severe critics, that it was not possible to discover the mysterious teacher(s) through whom Muhammad (peace be upon him) might have learned all that?

It is known that Muhammad (peace be upon him) was opposed, ridiculed and persecuted for nearly 13 years by his own contemporaries. With this magnitude of severe enemies, was it not possible for them to prove to the masses that Muhammad's (peace be upon him) claim of revelation was sheer fabrication? Was it not possible for them to reveal and name the person whom they alleged to be the human source or sources of his teachings? Even some of his adversaries who had made this assertion, changed their minds later on and accused him, instead, of magic or being possessed by evil... etc.

Muhammad's (peace be upon him) was raised among his people and every aspect of his life was exposed to them, especially by the openness that characterises tribal life in the desert. How could the multitudes of his contemporaries, including many of his close relatives who knew him so well, how could they believe in his truthfulness if they had any doubt that he was claiming credit for ideas taught to him by some other teachers without bothering to give them credit?

What kind of teacher might have taught Muhammad (peace be upon him) a coherent and complete religion that changed the face of history? Why didn't he or they (if any) speak against the alleged student who continued learning from them, while ignoring them and claiming some other divine source for his teachings?

How could many Jews and Christians amongst his contemporaries become Muslims and believe in his truthfulness if they knew he was copying from their scriptures or learning from their priests or rabbis?

It is known that some of the Qur'ânic revelations to Muhammad (peace be upon him) in the presence of people. The Qur'ân was revealed over the span of 23 years, where then that was mysterious, perhaps invisible teacher of Muhammad (peace be upon him)? How could he have hidden himself for so long? Or how could Muhammad (peace be upon him) who was constantly surrounded by companions, how was he able to make frequent secret visits to that mysterious teacher or teachers for 23 years without even being caught once?

3) If It Is Good Enough To Refute The Qur'an Then It Is Also Good Enough To Refute The Bible

 

 

 

 

Christians who put forth these arguments don't realize how self referentially incoherent their argument actually is.

 

The assertion that allegedly "numerous" stories in the Quran are "borrowed" from Jewish Talmudic sources and Christian apocryphal writings appears to be based on the dubious underlying presumption that similarity implies "borrowing." For example, consider the similarities/parallels between certain Biblical stories and those found in the Near Eastern literature.

 

Some notable examples:

 

- Genesis creation story and Enuma Elish; (See here and here)

 

- The flood story (Genesis 6-8) and Atrahasis and Gilgamesh (See here and here)

 

- israel's ancestors and the Nuzi texts (See here)

 

- Biblical laws (Exodus 21-23) and the Code of Hammurabi (laws 195-214)

 

- Biblical texts (the Ten Commandments and the structure of Deuteronomy) and the Hittite Suzerainty treaties and Vassal Treaty of Esarhaddon (See here and here)

 

- Book of Proverbs (22:17-24:22) and the Instruction of Amenemope (See here and here)

 

The latter are undoubtedly far earlier than the Biblical accounts and both direct and indirect connections have been posited between the two. The parallels in the last example are particularly striking, with most scholars agreeing that Proverbs 22:17-24:22 and Amenemope are clearly connected in some way (reminder: Amenemope is older than Proverbs).

 

We can, however, be reasonably certain that Christian apologists will not conclude based on the - at times striking - similarities that the Biblical authors "borrowed" their stories from their much older Near Eastern counterparts. However, in the case of the Quran not even a slight consideration and reasonableness is granted. Indeed, how much clearer can their hypocrisy and double standards be?

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetcall-to-monotheism(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/does_the_qur_an_mentioning_stories_found_in_previo_writings_threaten_its_credibility_"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetcall-to-monotheism(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/does_the...ts_credibility_[/url]

Edited by Orthodox

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How does one compare the similarities of the Qu'ran to the Bible?

 

 

In about the year 610 an Arab merchant of the thriving city of Mecca in Hijaz, who had never read the Bible and probably never heard of Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel, had an experience that was uncannily similar to theirs.[1]

 

 

 

To this day no-one has put forward a defensible explanation of how an unlettered caravan merchant of the early seventh century might have been able, by his own devices, to produce a text of such inimitable beauty, of such capacity to stir emotion, and which contained knowledge and wisdom which stood so far above the ideas current among makind at that time. The studies carried out in the West which try to determine the 'sources used by Muhammad', or to bring to light the psychological phenomenon which enabled him to draw the inspiration from his 'subconscious', have demonstrated only one thing: the anti-Muslim prejudice of their authors.[2]

 

And Allah knows best!

 

 

 

The Qu'ran is based off the Old and New Testaments, the Prophet (pbuh) talks of Moses, Jesus, all the key players are there not to mention a lot of what he talks about are stories from the Bible,
Please, I pleas you to read my previous post of the above and tell me what you think.

 

I just wonder, why fight over books when we should be promoting God's love? I mean the basics of many religions are this:
We shouldn't be fighting. But we must distinguish the truth from falshood. We cannot combine falsehood and truth and that doesn't need to be explained as to why. We are allowed to even narrate stuff from the Bible that's in-line with Islamic teachings [not as religious, Islamic official teachings]. Islamic basic believes are very protected by Muslims and schoalrs. In Islam there is a belief system and an action system. Everything we do must be for Allah alone and be in accordance to Allah's reveliation. Yes, but these similarities are due to the fact that we do believe there were previous books revealed by Allah. Edited by Orthodox

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In fact, the Qur'an gives more information than the Bible of some "stories." In the Bible, we are not told that what happened to the Pharoah during time of Moses, but Quran explicitly mention that Pharoah's body is saved and kept as sign for unbelievers till day of Judgment. Dr. Maurice Bucaille accepted Islam when he found out that Muslims knew that becasue of the Qur'an.

Having more information wouldn't be in disagreement with these stories being a familiar part of the culture, in fact, it might be said that expanding on the original stories is a natural part of the process.

 

The facts, Qur'an teaches that some of the Bible is wrong. Islam teaches the Bible is corrupt. It wouldn't make sense then what you say.

But since you know the Bible is wrong because of the Qur'an, wouldn't the Christian see it the other way around, that the Bible demonstrates that the Qur'an is wrong?

 

The very first translation of Old Testament only in Arabic was done in year 900 AD. Some 2-3 centuries later after the death of Prophet Muhammad and compilation of Quran.

But it wouldn't be necessary to translate the Old Testament for the stories in it to make their way into oral tradition.

 

 

1) Stating information that already exists does not imply plagiarism

I don't think saying that these stories were known means that their presence in the Qur'an is plagiarism. Actually, the whole concept of plagiarism is a relatively modern one.

 

2) How did Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Avoid Errors if He Were Plagiarizing?
[using large font size is not allowed]

But the average Christian wouldn't think that Muhammad pbuh avoided errors. In fact, they would think that where he diverged from the Bible, that would indicate an error.

 

The Bible mistakenly calls the king that lived during the time of Joseph 'Pharaoh' (e.g. see the book of Genesis, Chapter 41, Verses 14, 25 & 46) while he really shouldn't be called Pharaoh. This is because the Egyptians did not call their ruler "Pharaoh" until the 18th Dynasty (c. 1552 - 1295 BC) in the New Kingdom Period.

But if the passage wasn't written until that time period, it would be quite common for anachronistic titles to be employed in the account. This isn't a mistake so much as just a characteristic of that periods literature.

 

But the Qur'an correctly labels him only as 'king' (The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 12, Verses 43, 50, 54, 72 & 76) The Bible's use of the term 'Pharaoh' is an anachronism, while the Qur'an's usage of the term 'king' isn't.

Anachronistic terminology isn't an error unless the author and his readers expected period accurate titles to be used.

 

The Psalmist says that nothing can escape the sun's heat (read this), mistakenly showing that he didn't understand the vastness of the universe and how things in the universe are not affected at all by the Sun's heat. The Qur'an says no such thing. As a matter of fact, the Qur'an indirectly goes against this by speaking about the darkness found in the depth of the seas in Chapter 24, Verse 40. Thus, the Qur'an speaks about some places in which there is no light.

You do understand that the Psalms are poetry, a genre that often employs hyperbole and metaphoric language? This isn't a problem, its the nature of the literature.

 

The Bible contains genealogies scattered throughout the Old Testament, (especially in books such as 2 Chronicles) which imply that the first human being was created sometime between 6,200 and 7,300 years ago (Dr. Walt Brown., In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood, (7th Edition), Source).

Only if one assumes that these geneologies are to be taken literally.

 

However, this is an archaeological error since there are human fossils that predate this early date:

But that same fossil evidence suggests that humans evolved from a common ancestor to chimpanzees and other old world apes. I didn't know that this was thought compatible with Qur'anic teaching.

 

I'll respond to the rest of your post later. Thanks.

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I'll respond to the rest of your post later. Thanks.
I need a brake. I did not expect a response for some reason. Sorry if I wasted your time. I like to state the facts and it is up to people to believe or not.

 

"But the average Christian wouldn't think that Muhammad pbuh avoided errors. In fact, they would think that where he diverged from the Bible, that would indicate an error."

 

I do find this to be a resonable say so I'll ask brother Bassam:

 

But that same fossil evidence suggests that humans evolved from a common ancestor to chimpanzees and other old world apes. I didn't know that this was thought compatible with Qur'anic teaching.

 

I hope other members respond to what you have written. Debates are really no tin my interest or even these types of interactions. I will try to stay away. Posts: 1,388 ..wuh

Edited by Orthodox

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No problem. I thought you had posted it to discuss the material. If you were just posting it so that the information would be out there, I apologize for having misunderstood your intent.

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It is good that this disgusts you since that was what it is ment to do. This is the ‘vision†(parable) the prophet saw. These two sisters represent the Northern and Southern Jewish Kingdoms at the time, which in God’s eyes were as wicked as you see these two sisters. Outwardly they might not be any worse then some countries today (including the USA), but they were wicked as could be.

 

It doesnt matter what its meant for , its the clean and pure (opposite) inspiration that we are talking about , the beautiful wording :sl: .

 

Why would god make sexual explicit inspirations to men ?

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Maybe this god/author/whatever else you want to attribute it to didn't think it would be a problem while also thinking that it made a very good metaphor for the infidelity of these nations against god. As mentioned earlier, it was supposed to be shameful, since that is the sort of visceral response that the author intended the reader to feel about the unfaithfulness of these people toward god.

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What its intended for makes no difference , the context is filth period.

 

and there is more , but i will save it for later :sl: .

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It makes no difference because you have already decided that it makes no difference and so have chosen to ignore it and to oddly dwell only on the naked reference (no pun intended) while ignoring its actual content.

 

I am sure that you have more. I am sure that you could post many times more. The question is not whether you can post more, but rather if you will be able to do so with a greater level of discernment than what you have displayed in this topic. My hope is that you shall.

Edited by the sad clown

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:sl: The post is not about assessing me mate , its about the bible .

 

and so far i have proved that the bible carries the ###### i talked about earlier , has anyone refuted me ? i dont think so.

 

But thats normal.

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I don't consider what it wrote to be ######, I think it is explicit but it makes sense because looking at society today, well, let's just say there needs to be a whole lot of explanation as to what not to do because if some one were to do it they'd be in a lot of trouble with God. You see it as filth and yes, even the Bible saw it as filth, if it didn't, it wouldn't have condemned the actions of those participating in the actions.

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The text itself is filth not how can it be claimed that it was inspired ? .

 

The bible contains it and contains more as i will illustrate later.

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Let's face it, in all books, some people put in what they need in order to get points across, I am certain that God wanted it put in as well, maybe not in that exact language but to show what not to do. Don't forget, intercourse wasn't anything taboo until we left Eden I am certain that God would be upset that people have turned what he thought to be so beautiful into something so disgusting. Intercourse should not be seen as disgusting and taboo, it should be seen as something beautiful between a couple under their God.

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But dont christians take their doctrine from the book ? how can we forget anything in the book ?

 

Look at these :

 

PROPHETS BUT NAKED !

--------------------

[Gen 9:21]

Noah drank of the wine, and became drunk, and lay uncovered in his tent.

and Ham [his son] saw the NAKEDNESS of his father.

 

[1 Sam. 19:23]

And the spirit of God came upon Saul.. And he too STRIPPED OFF HIS

CLOTHES, and he too prophesied before Samuel and lay NAKED all the day

and all the night.

 

[2 Sam. 6:20]

David DANCES NAKED before the people and before the Lord.

 

[Exo. 15:20]

And so his sister Mariam the Prophetess dances, she took a tremble and

dances with the women.

 

FORNICATORS !

-------------

[Judg. 14:19]

And the spirit of God came upon Samson, he killed thirty men.

 

[Judg. 15:5]

And he burned up the shocks and the standing grain as well as the olive

orchards...

 

[Judg. 16:1]

And he went to Gaza, and there he saw a HARLOT, and he went into her.

 

LOT'S DAUGHTERS COMMIT INCEST WITH HIM !

----------------------------------------

[Gen. 19:30]

Lot went up out of Zo'ar and dwelt in the hills with his two daughters.

And the first-born said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is

not a man on earth to come to us after the manner of all the earth.

COME LET US MAKE OUR FATHER DRINK WINE AND WE WILL LIE WITH HIM, that we

may preserve offspring through our father. So they made their father drink

wine that night; AND THE FIRST BORN WENT IN AND LAY WITH HER FATHER; HE

DID NOT KNOW WHEN SHE LAY DOWN OR WHEN SHE AROSE.

 

And on the next day, the first-born said to the younger "Behold, I lay

last night with my father, let us make him drink wine tonight also; then

you go in and lie with him that we may preserve offspring through our

father.

So they made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger

arose, and LAY WITH HIM; and he did not know when she lay down or when

she arose. THUS BOTH THE DAUGHTERS OF LOT WERE WITH CHILD BY THEIR FATHER.

 

JUDAH WITH HIS DAUGHTER-IN-LAW

-------------------------------

 

Judah fornicates with his daughter-in-law: Ta'-mar.

[Gen. 38:15]

When he saw her, he thought her to be a harlot, for she had covered

her face. He went over to her at the road side and said "Come, LET ME

COME INTO YOU" for he did not know that she was his daughter-in-law.

She said, "What will you give me, that you may come into me?" He

answered, "I will send you a kid from the flock." And she said "Will

you send me a pledge till you send it?" He said, "What pledge shall I

give you?" She replied "Your signal and your cord and your staff that

is in your hand."

 

So he gave them to her, and WENT INTO HER, and she conceived by him.

About three months later, Judah was told, "Ta'-mar your daughter-in-

law has played the harlot, and moreover SHE IS WITH CHILD BY HARLOTRY.

 

DAVID WITH HIS NEIGHBOUR'S WIFE

--------------------------------

[2.Sam. 11:1]

David arose from his couch and was walking upon the roof that he saw

from the roof a WOMAN BATHING; and the woman was very beautiful, and

David sent and enquired about the woman. And one said, "Is not that

Bathshe'ba, the daughter of Eli'am, the wife of Uri'ah the Hittite?"

 

So David send messengers and took her, and SHE CAME TO HIM AND HE

LAY WITH HER.. Then she returned to her house; and she sent and told

David, I am with child. David called her husband, and invited him,

and ate in his presence and drank, so that he made him drunk. In the

morning David wrote to Jo'ab, "Set Uri'ah in the forefront of the

hardest fighting, and then draw back from him, that he may be struck

down and die.

When he died David sent and brought Uri'ah's wife to his house, and

she became his wife.

 

GOD PUNISHES DAVID

-------------------

[2.Sam. 12:10]

The Lord said to David, "Because you despised me, and have taken the

wife of Uri'ah the Hittite to be your wife.

Thus say the Lord, "Behold, I will take your wives (He punished David

through his daughter and son not his wife as you will see) before your

eyes, and give them to your neighbour and he shall lie with your wives

in the sight of this sun."

 

DAVID'S SON WITH HIS SISTER

---------------------------

[2.Sam. 13:1] Amnon the son of David fell in love with his sister Ta'-mar.

"Amnon was so tormented that he made himself ill because of his sister

Ta'-mar; for she was a virgin, and it seemed impossible to Amnon to do

anything to her.

Amnon had a friend who said to him, "Lie down on your bed and pretend to

be ill, and when [your father] the king comes to see you, you say to him:

let my sister Ta'-mar come and give bread to eat from her hand. David sent

Ta'-mar to her brother and ordered her to feed her brother by her hand.

 

Ta'-mar took the cakes she had made, and brought them into the chamber to

Amnon, but when she brought them near him to eat, he took hold of her,

and said to her, "Come, lie with me, my sister", she said, "No my brother,

do not force me." But he would not listen to her; and being stronger than

she, he forced her, and lay with her."

 

GET FOR YOURSELF A HARLOT !!!

-----------------------------

[Hos. 1:2]

When the Lord first spoke to Hose'a he said to him, "GO TAKE TO YOURSELF

A WIFE OF HARLOTRY and have children of harlotry, for the land has

committed great harlotry by forsaking the Lord."

 

[Gen. 35:22]

Rueben the son of Jacob lay with Bilhah his father's concubine.

 

[Gen. 49:4]

His father blamed him and said, "Because you went up to your father's

bed, then you defiled it, you went up to my couch.

 

PAGAN PROPHETS !!!

------------------

[1 King 11:3]

Solomon had seven hundred wives princesses and three hundred concubines;

and his wives turned his heart after other Gods.... the Goddess of the

Sido'nians.

 

AARON BUILT THE CALF !

----------------------

[Exo. 32:2]

Aaron said to people of israel, "take off the rings of Gold which are

in the ears of your wives, your sons and your daughters. So they took

off the rings of gold, and brought them to Aaron. And he received the

golf at their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made a

molten calf and they said, "These are your Gods, O israel, who brought

you up out of the land of Egypt."

 

THE SEX LITERATURE IN THE BIBLE !

---------------------------------

[Prov. 7:7]

I have seen among the simple, I have perceived among the youth, a young

man without sense, passing along the street near her corner taking the

road to her house in the twilight, in the evening at the time of the

night and darkness.

And lo, a woman meets him, dressed as a harlot, wily of heart. She is

loud and wayward. Now in the street, now in the market, and at every

corner she lies in wait.

 

SHE SEIZES HIM AND KISSES HIM, and with impudent face she says to him:

I have come to meet you, to seek you eagerly, and I have found you.

 

I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon. COME, LET US

TAKE OUR FILL OF LOVE TILL THE MORNING, LET US DELIGHT OURSELVES WITH

LOVE. FOR MY HUSBAND IS NOT AT HOME, HE HAS GONE ON A LONG JOURNEY.

With much seductive speech she persuades him, with her smooth talk she

compels him. All at once he follows her, as an ox goes to the slaughter.

 

WOMAN'S BREASTS IN THE BIBLE !

------------------------------

[songs. 1:13]

My beloved is to me a bag of myrrh, that LIES BETWEEN MY BREASTS. Behold,

you are beautiful, my beloved, truly lovely. Our bed is green.(In R.S.V.

our couch)

 

[song. 3:1]

Upon my bed night I sought him whom my soul loves but not found him.

"When I found him whom my soul loves, I HELD HIM, and would not let him

go until I had brought him into my mother's house, and into the CHAMBER OF

HER THAT CONCEIVED ME. I adjure you, o daughters of Jerusalem, by the

gazelles or the hinds of the field, that you steer not up nor awaken love

until it pleases.

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Just because one does not like the history does not mean that it does not exist. In a couple of those instances, people were naked in front of God, as God intended us to be stripped of all of our clothing, completely naked and humiliated in front of our God, it made them defenseless, it was to humble them before God. Nakedness should not be seen as disgusting, we came into the world naked as God intended, the only reason that nakedness is disgusting is because what human's filthy minds turned it into not by God's intentions, for it wasn't until Adam and Eve followed the serpent that they even thought nakedness was bad those thoughts were not of God.

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heres more :

 

THE SONGS OF SOLOMON - A BOOK OF FLIRTATION

-------------------------------------------

[songs. 4:1]

Behold you are beautiful my love. YOUR LIPS are like a scarlet thread your

cheeks are like halves of a pomegranate, your neck like the tower of David.

YOUR TWO BREASTS are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle. How sweet is your

love my sister, my bride, how much better is your love than wine. How graceful

are your feet in sandals, O queenly maiden!

YOUR ROUNDED THIGHS are like jewels, the work of a master hand. YOUR NAVEL is

rounded bowl that never lacks mix wine. YOUR BELLY is heap of wheat, encircled

with lilies. YOUR TWO BREASTS are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle.

 

You are stature (in R.S.V. stately) as a palm tree, and your breasts are like

its clusters.

I say: I will go up (in R.S.V. climb) the tree, and lay hold of its branches.

Oh, may YOUR BREASTS be like clusters of the vine.

 

[song. 8:8]

We have a little sister, and she has no breasts. What shall we do for our

sister on the day when is spoken for? I was a wall, and MY BREASTS WERE LIKE

TOWERS.

 

REJOICE WITH THEM !!

-------------------

[Prov. 5:18]

REJOICE WITH THE WIFE of your youth. Let her be as the loving hind and

pleasant roe; LET HER BREASTS SATISFY YOU AT ALL TIMES.

 

THE SEXY LANGUAGE IN EZEKIEL !

------------------------------

[Ezek. 16:1]

The Lord said to me, "Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abomination.

[15] But you trusted in your beauty, and played the harlot because of your

renown and poured out of your fornication on every one that passed by.. And

made for yourself images of men, and committed whoredom with them.

And in all your abominations and your whoredoms you have not remembered the

youth, when you were naked and bare... AND OPENED YOUR FEET TO EVERY ONE THAT

PASSED BY, and multiplied your whoredoms.

 

:sl:

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There is a lot more than Just nakedness in that text , but it you wish to blind eye it , its fine with us :sl: .

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You are correct, but a lot of it was told about due to the fact that they wanted people to know what not to do, again, I do not see a problem with the text, also all the little smiles, are done to be demeaning and I find that if you wish to play games and wish to be demeaning then know it is people like you who have led people away from Islam instead of towards it, if that is your goal, then by all means continue, I believe Allah will not be too happy though.

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Akhi al faqeer, it's time to admit your mistakes (smile).

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al faqeer, none of this proves anything but that you don't like these metaphors. It does not speak to their appropriateness. You need to look beyond the mere words and understand the content, the meaning. Perhaps these are child appropriate, but then it wasn't written for children. Simply having mature content does not disqualify something from being divinely inspired.

Edited by the sad clown

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