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But many children read the Bible!

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True, but they are almost always guided/helped by an adult. I don't know of any children who would read these sections, at least at a young age. Even if they did, I would just try to explain that it is a metaphor for being unfaithful, and leave off a more detailed analysis until the are more mature.

 

Once you acknowledge that there is mature content in the bible, then you know that you introduce some parts of the bible at different ages/maturity levels. I think this goes for just about any curriculum that deals with topics that children may not be ready to think about.

Edited by the sad clown

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:sl:

 

What mistakes sister Orthodox ? :no: care to point them out 1 by 1 please .

 

Metaphors :j: ? Guys i want one of you only one to directly defend the text I posted , why are u deflecting it with character assassination ?

 

I will post some more biblical filth later :sl: .

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I have defended it. My last post didn't even mention you. In fact many of my posts in this thread do not mention you.

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Nope all your posts you try to be a shrink and analyze the guy you at logger heads with instead of taking the bull by the horns :sl: .

 

Now take one of the posts above and defend it ! if you can of course .

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I have already done so, regardless of how you wish to characterize it.

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If you think you have show us the post numbers :sl: and links where you refuted each passage text .

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You are right, that last post of mine was not very helpful. Here are the links to my posts with a brief summary of them.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&showtopic=732750&view=findpost&p=1221260"]First post[/url], I question the subjective nature of such negative evaluations.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&showtopic=732750&view=findpost&p=1221684"]Next post[/url], I argue the rational behind the use of the imagery.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&showtopic=732750&view=findpost&p=1221731"]Another post[/url], I argue for a differentiation between our distaste of the imagery (which was supposed to be distasteful) and its appropriateness.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&showtopic=732750&view=findpost&p=1221746"]My final post[/url], I argue that mature content does not exclude something from being inspired or useful, but merely dictates that we take an age sensitive approach to it, which is common when dealing with topics difficult for children to think through.

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So in a nutshell , you didnt answer or refute a single context from the bible posted , instead you acted like a Lawyer in an american court room :sl: .

 

Using scientific words and good english is the only thing you good in , but refuting the actual posts is like the cow jumping over the moon in your case .

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No, so in a nutshell, I offered multiple arguments against how you are characterizing these passages. Don't you want to at least discuss what I wrote? I even offered links to make it easier.

 

I can't help that I didn't offer the kind of arguments you wanted me to offer (I'm not even sure what kind of arguments I'm "supposed" to have), but I have offered arguments, and these are my reasons for disagreeing with you. It is not a game of charade or playing with words. These are my actual objections.

Edited by the sad clown

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No I dont want to know what you think I think :sl: its not what the thread is about , the Bible is directly on trial , you either defend it or dont .

 

I am talking textual refutation , or maybe accuse me of taking it out of context , but your tactic even though unorthodox and smart it dont work on me , your bad luck .

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I'm not telling you what you are thinking. I am only dealing with what you have explicitly said in this thread, which have been critical comments about the Bible. I have only been arguing about these comments, and not your inner thought process.

 

What text do you want me to refute? My argument isn't that you are taking these texts out of context, but rather that you are ignoring their context. I don't have any tactics. I am just objecting to your criticisms with what I see as problems with those remarks. I'm not looking for them to work on you, it is just a discussion, in which we present divergent views and then expand upon them in what is hopefully a civil dialogue. Sometimes this results in our agreement, but often it does not. I am fine with that since one can hardly object to something that is an inherent part of the medium.

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It doesnt matter what its meant for , its the clean and pure (opposite) inspiration that we are talking about , the beautiful wording :sl: .

 

Why would god make sexual explicit inspirations to men ?

How better to describe the wickedness of the northern and southern kingdoms then this way. This is not the only time God has prophets describe what He is seeing in terms that gross out humans. I assure you when God looks at Holly Wood or Wall Street He is seeing the equivalent of these two sisters in our perspective. Wall Street may seem like smart businesses men working hard to make an honest dollar and “greed†is just part of business where there are winners and losers. They are not using their wealth that God has allowed them to make to serve others, so they are whores in his eyes. How bad are they, will Ezk. Describes them. The same might be the description of some oil rich kingdoms also.

What they were doing would not look bad since they were going to worship, paying their tythes, but they were not caring for the weak and widows.

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[Gen. 19:30]

Lot went up out of Zo'ar and dwelt in the hills with his two daughters.

And the first-born said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is

not a man on earth to come to us after the manner of all the earth.

COME LET US MAKE OUR FATHER DRINK WINE AND WE WILL LIE WITH HIM, that we

may preserve offspring through our father. So they made their father drink

wine that night; AND THE FIRST BORN WENT IN AND LAY WITH HER FATHER; HE

DID NOT KNOW WHEN SHE LAY DOWN OR WHEN SHE AROSE.

 

I'm confused, do Christians believe that Prophets of God would do such things? Or has this been quoted out of context or misrepresented?

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No, as far as I know, Christianity (and the Bible), have a more negative view of Lot than does Islam. It is neither out of context or misrepresented. There is also the story of him parting ways with Abraham, and the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, which also, at least initially, does not potray Lot in a good light.

 

This is not completely surprising, since there are other stories of prophets who had questionable character, but were still used by God to communicate his message.

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:sl:

Dear brothers and sister, we must respect these ancient books becasue some of it is "holy."

We also believe that the prophets, pbut, committed sins. The Messengers and or the Prophets, pbut, never committed any sin intentionally as an act of disobedience towards Allaah after receiving their Mission.

This is according to the consensus of the Muslim scholars. They were protected from major sins but not from minor sins. As for the Biblical sexual metaphors, what about the art of nudity in the churches?

 

Yes, the Prophets and Messengers made mistakes, but Allaah did not approve of their mistakes; rather, He pointed out their mistakes as a Mercy to them and their ummahs, and He forgave their mistakes and accepted their repentance as a Grace and Mercy, for Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. This will be clear to anyone who checks out the aayaat of the Qur'aan in which the matters raised in the question are discussed. With regard to the sons of Aadam, even though they were not Prophets. Allaah explained how evil was the deed which he did to his brother.

 

(Fataawaa al-Lajnah al-Daa'imah, no. 6290, 3/194).

 

Thirdly: before they were given their Mission (risaalah), the scholars have said that it is possible that they may have committed some minor sins, but they were protected from committing major sins such as zinaa, drinking wine, etc.

 

But after they received their Mission, the correct view is that they may have committed some minor mistakes but this was not approved of and they were rebuked.

 

Shaykh al-Islam [ibn Taymiyah] said:

 

Most of the reports from the majority of scholars state that they were not infallible with regard to minor mistakes, but they were not allowed to persist in them; they do not say that this could never happen at all. The first suggestion that they were completely infallible came from the Raafidis, who say that they are so infallible that they could never make any mistake even by way of forgetfulness and misunderstanding.

 

(Majmoo' al-Fataawaa, 4/320).

Edited by Orthodox

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[2 Sam. 6:20]

David DANCES NAKED before the people and before the Lord.

I know what I will ask is absurd. How reliable are these chapters (books) for the Muslims ???? If they are not very reliable, who would write all of this? Who saw this? Edited by Orthodox

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I suspect they are not considered very reliable by most Muslims, considering it is believed these books are corruptions of the originals, originals which presumably would have conformed to the standard set by the Qur'an.

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I'm not telling you what you are thinking. I am only dealing with what you have explicitly said in this thread, which have been critical comments about the Bible. I have only been arguing about these comments, and not your inner thought process.

 

What text do you want me to refute? My argument isn't that you are taking these texts out of context, but rather that you are ignoring their context. I don't have any tactics. I am just objecting to your criticisms with what I see as problems with those remarks. I'm not looking for them to work on you, it is just a discussion, in which we present divergent views and then expand upon them in what is hopefully a civil dialogue. Sometimes this results in our agreement, but often it does not. I am fine with that since one can hardly object to something that is an inherent part of the medium.

 

Prove it as per each verse i posted , in street terms bring dont sing :sl: !

 

Show us per each verse how i am ignoring the context.

 

I'm confused, do Christians believe that Prophets of God would do such things? Or has this been quoted out of context or misrepresented?

 

No thats what they believe , bro even taking it out of context would still mean he Lot a.s. did that wal3iyaathu Billah .

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How better to describe the wickedness of the northern and southern kingdoms then this way. This is not the only time God has prophets describe what He is seeing in terms that gross out humans. I assure you when God looks at Holly Wood or Wall Street He is seeing the equivalent of these two sisters in our perspective. Wall Street may seem like smart businesses men working hard to make an honest dollar and “greed” is just part of business where there are winners and losers. They are not using their wealth that God has allowed them to make to serve others, so they are whores in his eyes. How bad are they, will Ezk. Describes them. The same might be the description of some oil rich kingdoms also.

What they were doing would not look bad since they were going to worship, paying their tythes, but they were not caring for the weak and widows.

 

Did you read the rest i posted ? besides Ezekiel ?

 

The problem is with the wording the text, why does it need to be so lewd ? is that how god inspires , do you know what effects sexual content has on the brain ?

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Prove it as per each verse i posted , in street terms bring dont sing :sl: !

 

Show us per each verse how i am ignoring the context.

Show me how you deal with my arguments about the first one, and I'll invest the time on the rest. I don't want to go verse by verse only for you to flippantly dismiss it like you have done with my other arguments. Show me that I'm not wasting my time, and I'll devote more of it to your other posts.

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Nope , if you cant prove your allegations of context then we have nothing to talk about .

 

So far you are playing dodge ball which dont work with me .

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Ok! this thread will go on for ever. Those texts were pretty clear. I think they should even be deleted so others do not read them.

Edited by Orthodox

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Nope , if you cant prove your allegations of context then we have nothing to talk about .

OK. I offered arguments. You haven't responded to them. Orthodox is right, this will merely go on forever. I am done and will allow you to have any last words you wish.

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:sl:

 

I dont want arguments mate , I have given you solid evidence that its filled with filth , if you cant refute me head on it reflects negative on you :sl: .

 

Your problem .

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