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Kai Thaabit

The Big Fitnah

What is your opinion regarding the fitnah  

12 members have voted

  1. 1. What is your opinion regarding the fitnah

    • It is important to study this part of Islamic History to defend the sahaba against accusations
      10
    • We should ignore this part of Islamic History
      0
    • I Don't know
      2
    • We should focus on the problems of our time
      2
  2. 2. The Conflict between Ali abi Talib and Mu'awiyah

    • We should love both because they are both sahaba
      6
    • We should take sides either favor Ali or Mu'awiyah
      0
    • We should forgive and ignore their mistakes
      4
    • It is important to study the conflict between them for the purpose of preserving the Islamic History and keep falsehood away from truth
      7
    • I prefer to avoid this topic because it can be depressing
      0
    • I don't know
      1
  3. 3. Have you listened to audio lectures?

    • No, I have not come a cross a trustworthy lecture regarding this topic
      3
    • No, because I try to avoid this part of history
      0
    • Yes, and I found good lectures
      4
    • Yes, but they were not trustworthy
      1
    • Other
      4


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salam

 

For me it is important to learn this part of history, but the prerequisite is to study the lives of the Sahaba first and get familiar with the personalities of the Sahaba before the fitan happened, so that we don't started judging. All part of Islamic History is our history and that is why I like to study it. If I could study Islamic History at Academic Level, I would do so, but I don't know where.

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Ask students of knowledge since they studied all that and can direct you to any sutable place for you: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetahlalhdeeth(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/vbe/index.php"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetahlalhdeeth(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/vbe/index.php[/url]

 

May Allah assist you. If you are in search of knowledge, seriously, no fooling around and wasting time, you should be learning Arabic so you learn the Qur'an. We shoul learn Qur'an before the Sunna although they go together. And if you speak Arabic, this learning of Arabic is not the type every day talk.

I am in trying to learn obligatory knowledge.

 

And brother, I really need a shaykh online. Can you direct me to one? Please...

 

Nice post sister Peace is Power. Allahu Akbar!!

Edited by Orthodox

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:sl:

 

It was the will of Allah to grant these heroes the rank of martyrdom. If you knew what martyrs get in the Akhirah, you would not feel sad about them.

 

Also, the men you are talking about are themselves among the Sahabah.

 

Yes it was the will of Allah SWT , but everything has a reason and circumstances , if a murderer commits murder we dont say its the will of Allah and leave him we bring him to justice and keep Allah's hudood in place.

 

I think the brother knows they were Sahaaba otherwise he would not mention them Shukran .

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if a murderer commits murder we dont say its the will of Allah and leave him we bring him to justice and keep Allah's hudood in place.

 

All things happen by the will of Allah. Yes, even murders.

 

Every evil thing done under the sun occurs for one reason alone. It is only through the will of Allah.

 

We might want to go after the criminals and murders and greatly desire to bring them to justice, but that will only happen if Allah wills it to happen. The Sahabah were not able to prevent the murders from taking place simply because they are not the ones in control of all affairs. Allah is.

 

Justice isn't always done in this world. But it will be in the Hereafter. On that day, those who were oppressed, murdered and faced great injustice will be glad and happy. And those who were murderers and oppressors will face the Torment of the Fire.

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:sl:

 

Wa Nima billah no Muslim would deny that everything happens through the will of Allah SWT , but that does not mean we dont implement Allah SWT Shariah on earth . Common Islamic sense .

 

If we only take your point of view we will have to drop all Islamic rules and laws just because everything is Allah SWT will sister .

 

We Should Stick to the Quran and Sunnah and not make up our own version of Islam .

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Brother, please do not accuse the sister of making up her own versions of Islam.

 

Allah allows everything for just, wise, etc..reasons. But the mankind has freewill and the mankind chooses to commit sinns. Allah allows it to happen is what the sister is saying. Everything was preordained. Allah is the most knowledgeable.

Edited by Orthodox

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If we only take your point of view we will have to drop all Islamic rules and laws just because everything is Allah SWT will sister .

 

My point of view is merely that there are things in life that are greater in weight than rules and laws. Things such as life, humanity, honor and respect.

 

In my signature I do say I would rather break all the rules, but that does not mean that I do break them. Neither does it mean that I do not follow the Qur'an and Sunnah.

 

In my opinion, if following a rule would cause me to show disrespect towards someone, I would rather break that rule than follow it.

 

I can handle being held accountable for breaking a rule. But I don't wish to be held accountable for showing disrespect towards anyone.

 

But that's my choice. I am not asking anyone to do the same.

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Brother, please do not accuse the sister of making up her own versions of Islam.

 

Allah allows everything for just, wise, etc..reasons. But the mankind has freewill and the mankind chooses to commit sinns. Allah allows it to happen is what the sister is saying. Everything was preordained. Allah is the most knowledgeable.

 

If she added what you have added then i would not have a problem , she left out the part that as humans we dont know what Allah SWT has willed so we choose freely .

 

But even if everything is written and through Allah SWT will we still implement the Hudood as per Quran and Sunnah that must be added to what she has said other wise it has a touch of not being Sunnah .

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No worries sis. I just wanted to add something. Our actions are created by Allah:

 

Allah created us with free will, but at the same time, he creates all of our actions.

 

(Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is the Guardian and Disposer of all affairs.) 39:62

 

( It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah's: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself: for Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things) 8:17

 

 

He is creating it right now. Plants do not have freewill. Allah is creating them right now.

 

 

everything other than Allah Azza wa Jal, His Names, His speech ,and Attributes; is created, which includes our actions; BUT Allah didn't create our actions without us having a will to do it, meaning that we were not forced to do it.

 

For more clearification, here is an example:

 

Zayd walking to the store.

 

1. Zayd willed to walk to the store

2. Allah created his walking to the store.

 

So Zayd's walking was by Allah's will and creating, in addition to Zayd's will to do it.

Allah Knows what a person wills, and creates it for Him by His Will.

 

So there is no contradiction between the two.

Edited by Orthodox

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All things happen by Allah's will. It was Allah's will to give insaan free will. But no man or woman can act upon that will unless Allah allows it.

 

Hence the credit for all achievements and progress made by us goes to Allah.

 

As for breaking rules, it's a choice we make for which we shall certainly be held accountable. However, one can have excuses and valid reasons for breaking rules and laws. The Qur'an even permits the breaking of rules if it is to done to save life. And in the Sunnah, the same principle is taught. There was a certain situation that came up when the lives of all Muslims were threatened. During this time, not a single rakat of salah was offered. All prayers had to be made up later on at night.

 

So one can have reasons and excuses for breaking rules. But what excuse can one have for showing disrespect towards any creature of Allah?

 

None whatsoever.

 

To me that is the harder path and greater struggle. To strive to show respect for all people and creatures of Allah at all times. Until death.

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:sl:

 

Thats already been included when i said the hudood of Allah Should be implemented sister , and one of it is Haq Al Ibaad or the rights of Allah's servants , which you have now mentioned later on .

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:sl:

 

After reading more on the topic i have lost all respect for the Ummayads except

Othmaan Bin Afaan ra

Muawiyah ra

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:sl:

 

We Shouldn't Judge brother banu Ummayah were not rightly guided khalifs they were normal governments , but You have people like Umar bin Abdulaziz ranhu who was recognized as being upon the path of the Khulafa Al Rashideen i cant vouch for the rest except Muawaiyah r.a. though .

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Yes i believe there is a hadith that states

The khilaafah after me in my Ummah will last for thirty years. Then there will be kingship after that.

Musnad Imaam Ahmad, by at-Tirmidhi, Musnad Abi Ya'laa, and Ibn Hibbaan. Saheeh al-Jaami' as-Sagheer (no. 3341) declared Saheeh by Imaam al-Albaani (rahimahullaah).

 

So why do the people say Banu Umayyad were Khilafat>

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